Compulsory electric vehicle madness

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by geoff » 31 Mar 2023, 8:45 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Lazarus wrote:You're very dystopian today Blade.
Think of all the advantages we'll be getting in the future, generated by the descent into general warfare in Europe. :sarcasm: :drinks:


I just don't think my daughter and her kids have any hope of experiencing life as we had it growing up :-)

Back in 1986 I did just over 52,000kms on the bike, and have never matched that since. Now on the farm, I might be lucky to do 2000km a year locally including a longer trip or two. Hay runs are about 200km trips, the gunshop is 175km. If we have to go to Phillip Island or Melbourne that's a 350km round trip, usually more as we try to get multiple things done en-route. Now that my daughter has moved to Melbourne it's likely there'll be more trips up there, which may also translate to getting out to Little River for the Military Rifle Club shoots. The LERAA shoots will be about 2000km each trip, and I think this year might be eight or nine such trips with talk of additional practice days and even a shoot at another range. Even if I were willing to go into debt to own a vehicle I can't see such travel being viable in any way at all with an EV. The single biggest advantage with ICE just now is that a huge part of our population can actually afford to buy, own, run and maintain an ICE vehicle still, without mortgaging themselves to do so. Very, very few people can afford to own EV's, they have to rent them from banks via hire purchase.


I'm under the impression that most new car private sales are financed. The days of people paying cash for cars is effectively over.

The overwhelming majority of vehicles in Australia don't leave the city and travel <50km a day. For those owners, specifically those, the EV and a home charger is a no brainer.

When you consider that most new cars are financed, the higher capital costs (and therefore repayments) are offset by the reduced operating maintenance costs. Over the life of comparable vehicles, most EVs come out in the wash cheaper all things considered.

There are plenty of use cases they don't suit - mate I'm a part time roo shooter. I'm not buying an EV any time soon. But the simple fact is we are a metropolitan population and the bulk of Australian citizens can make the switch quite soon.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by on_one_wheel » 31 Mar 2023, 10:13 pm

geoff wrote:

When you consider that most new cars are financed, the higher capital costs (and therefore repayments) are offset by the reduced operating maintenance costs. Over the life of comparable vehicles, most EVs come out in the wash cheaper all things considered.

.


Unfortunately that low maintenance cost is replaced by the rapid depreciation of value due to the fact that the most expensive component of the ev, the battery, does not last anywhere near as long as an I.C.E
In 10 years when the battery no longer holds enough charge to get you around the block the vehicle is a write-off.
There goes all that clean green, warm fuzzy feeling when your vehicle is scrapped and another mountain of lithium is mined, processed and made into a bank of batteries for the replacement shiny new ev, more iron, steel, plastic, glass, copper and the huge process of making a vehicle.

Until perpetual motion motion actually happens lt's all smoke and mirrors, carbon neutral is a myth.

Ignoring efficiency curves, for every given amount of energy, both created and stored there's an equal amount of carbon created as waste.
The only difference being is where that carbon footprint has been created in the process.
The only reason we're having the "carbon neutral" crap pushed on us is because people with influence have invested heavily in it.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 31 Mar 2023, 11:31 pm

geoff wrote:I'm under the impression that most new car private sales are financed. The days of people paying cash for cars is effectively over.

The overwhelming majority of vehicles in Australia don't leave the city and travel <50km a day. For those owners, specifically those, the EV and a home charger is a no brainer.

When you consider that most new cars are financed, the higher capital costs (and therefore repayments) are offset by the reduced operating maintenance costs. Over the life of comparable vehicles, most EVs come out in the wash cheaper all things considered.

There are plenty of use cases they don't suit - mate I'm a part time roo shooter. I'm not buying an EV any time soon. But the simple fact is we are a metropolitan population and the bulk of Australian citizens can make the switch quite soon.


Well a big part of the issue is making these assumptions and then using government to force products on people they may not want or that suit their needs.

I'm for letting the marketplace decide, not government bureaucrats. If EVs work so well, the market will quickly determine that.

Also if electricity costs are so high now, how is that going to work with all these people plugging in their vehicle? I'm not seeing any plans to dramatically increase electricity generation or the infrastructure needed to make it happen.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 31 Mar 2023, 11:43 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Where would we travel to? People are already unhappy with fuel prices, electric will be multiple times more expensive to travel. Nobody will be driving to any shops, you'll order everything on line and it will be delivered.
Rich people will still be able to travel of course, nothing will change there, they'll probably even be subsidised by tax dollars because they're so important.
By the time EV's are viable there won't be any shooting sport in this country.


I think that is the end goal, in cahoots with "subsidies" to the car manufacturers. EVs will be affordable to the technocratic or bureaucratic elite, the car manufacturers get to sell fewer but more profitable cars with a planned obsolescence of no later than 7-10 years and "the little people" will be forced into "mass transport" if they want to go anywhere.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 01 Apr 2023, 12:09 am

on_one_wheel wrote:
geoff wrote:

When you consider that most new cars are financed, the higher capital costs (and therefore repayments) are offset by the reduced operating maintenance costs. Over the life of comparable vehicles, most EVs come out in the wash cheaper all things considered.

.


Unfortunately that low maintenance cost is replaced by the rapid depreciation of value due to the fact that the most expensive component of the ev, the battery, does not last anywhere near as long as an I.C.E
In 10 years when the battery no longer holds enough charge to get you around the block the vehicle is a write-off.
There goes all that clean green, warm fuzzy feeling when your vehicle is scrapped and another mountain of lithium is mined, processed and made into a bank of batteries for the replacement shiny new ev, more iron, steel, plastic, glass, copper and the huge process of making a vehicle.

Until perpetual motion motion actually happens lt's all smoke and mirrors, carbon neutral is a myth.

Ignoring efficiency curves, for every given amount of energy, both created and stored there's an equal amount of carbon created as waste.
The only difference being is where that carbon footprint has been created in the process.
The only reason we're having the "carbon neutral" crap pushed on us is because people with influence have invested heavily in it.


A lot of these folks don't seem to understand there is electrical loss through electrical lines which adds to the inefficiencies.

ICE vehicles have got to a point where they are very efficient and clean and IMO liquid fuels are not going anywhere.

I saw an excellent documentary(except for some climate emergency panic nonsense) recently with Guy Martin(the motorcycle racer) on electricity and what's involved in generating it, sending it down the lines and managing it. He goes out and looks at everything, coal, nuclear, tidal, wind, gas, etc.

It's called The Great British Power Trip and all the episodes are on Youtube. It's clear that it's hard enough supplying power to run our regular houses and businesses and no one source of power is the answer. Also the electrical grid goes down frequently in storms or other issues, not sure why people want only one method of power that can be totally controlled. Liquid fuels are portable, energy rich and can be stored for a period of time.

The whole "climate crisis", "Climate emergency", global warming, etc. is one of the biggest cons of all time.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 01 Apr 2023, 2:13 am

Or Exxonmobil lying about it is the biggest con of all time.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by geoff » 01 Apr 2023, 9:00 am

on_one_wheel wrote:
geoff wrote:

When you consider that most new cars are financed, the higher capital costs (and therefore repayments) are offset by the reduced operating maintenance costs. Over the life of comparable vehicles, most EVs come out in the wash cheaper all things considered.

.


Unfortunately that low maintenance cost is replaced by the rapid depreciation of value due to the fact that the most expensive component of the ev, the battery, does not last anywhere near as long as an I.C.E
In 10 years when the battery no longer holds enough charge to get you around the block the vehicle is a write-off.
There goes all that clean green, warm fuzzy feeling when your vehicle is scrapped and another mountain of lithium is mined, processed and made into a bank of batteries for the replacement shiny new ev, more iron, steel, plastic, glass, copper and the huge process of making a vehicle.

Until perpetual motion motion actually happens lt's all smoke and mirrors, carbon neutral is a myth.

Ignoring efficiency curves, for every given amount of energy, both created and stored there's an equal amount of carbon created as waste.
The only difference being is where that carbon footprint has been created in the process.
The only reason we're having the "carbon neutral" crap pushed on us is because people with influence have invested heavily in it.


Good news, they've thought of that too! Turns out batteries can perform even better when they're recycled.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5121004335

At the end of the day, most people are too busy trying to poke holes in the adoption of EVs - they don't do this, my ute does that. Fine. They're not a universal solution. Neither was the ICE vehicle a hundred years ago. If you spend more time looking at use cases where they work, the technology will improve with time to make it more suited to niche purposes (and be realistic - off roading etc is a niche purpose relative to most miles driven in cars).

Someone mentioned electrical losses in transmission lines. Please. That's an absurd reason not to adopt EVs - the energy that is wasted producing, refining, transporting and dispensing petrol is wild compared to the energy received into the tank. All our fuel is imported, whereas we can generate renewable electricity at a far more local scale. You can't clean up liquid fuels any more than we already have.....you absolutely have room for improvement in electricity generation and transmission.

This is a market response. We have effectively no real government intervention in Australia.....little to no subsidies, tax breaks or legislation supporting the EV transition. We are an OECD pariah state for gas guzzlers. Yet they are selling like hotcakes.....face it y'all the market is speaking and you're wrong. People want these things.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 01 Apr 2023, 9:21 am

geoff wrote:I'm under the impression that most new car private sales are financed. The days of people paying cash for cars is effectively over.

The overwhelming majority of vehicles in Australia don't leave the city and travel <50km a day. For those owners, specifically those, the EV and a home charger is a no brainer.

When you consider that most new cars are financed, the higher capital costs (and therefore repayments) are offset by the reduced operating maintenance costs. Over the life of comparable vehicles, most EVs come out in the wash cheaper all things considered.

There are plenty of use cases they don't suit - mate I'm a part time roo shooter. I'm not buying an EV any time soon. But the simple fact is we are a metropolitan population and the bulk of Australian citizens can make the switch quite soon.


I would think virtually all new cars are financed, which is why most of the population don't drive new cars. Lots of us still pay cash and own our cars outright, we have no need for the newest models.

EV's may have slightly reduced operating costs up front, at the moment. By the time we have multiplied our entire coal-fired electrical grid several times the cost of electricity will be far higher than fossil fuels - for everybody, not just EV owners. Then add the costs of replacing the batteries, and disposing of the old batteries and I doubt it'll be cheaper overall. And the cost to the environment will be much worse.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 01 Apr 2023, 10:09 am

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 01 Apr 2023, 1:12 pm

Lazarus you are arguing with bigoil.org
Not the automobile industry.
You are arguing with OPEC
And offering up competition.

You are correct and most people know this, but a great many don’t, as intended. OPEC controls entirely and very effectively all their sources of knowledge and information. All of them. Everything. Religion, media, social media.
Ok well not entirely but close. And will attack anything they don’t control.
The US imports 90 million barrels of oil per day. That’s each and every day.
Who will rule the world when we no longer need oil. Not opec.
This is their planet and they would kill it before letting anyone else have it. They would nuke it.

It’s going to take small baby steps. Step 1. is we end Russia.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 01 Apr 2023, 2:01 pm

Very true Womble.

Another galling example below.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-29/ ... /102159078
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Pennsylvania Yank » 01 Apr 2023, 5:49 pm

geoff wrote:Have you heard the news Cecil - they wish to prohibit our horse drawn carriages. The madness of it all.

Say I am to capitulate to their ruling and purchase one of these preposterous motorcars for my ventures to the northern queensland savannah...where does the Governor expect I will find his precious distillate? In the billabongs? I shan't imagine I can source the fuels and oils for such a beast in the uncharted country, shall I? No, for I can feed my horse anywhere the grass does grow.

That is all to say nothing of the newfangled vulcanised tyres....


When automobiles replaced horses, it was almost universally self evident in a very short time that it was a vast improvement in technology and convenience for the world. That is not so much the case with EV's. When mandated on a vast scale, they will become a nightmare for society. They simply are not thinking out the logistics needed for such an effort or the vast environmental damage caused by mining for minerals for batteries on such a massive scale, or else they are thinking about it and their goal is to limit automobiles to only a certain segment of the population. Either way they don't care about your ability to travel via private vehicle. They are ideologues who are only concerned with accomplishing their global de-growth goals. They likely want the rich to buy EV's and the poor and middle class to move and stay closer to urban areas and ride public transport, and they wish to restrict your travel. They accomplish all of this by ending fossil fuels.....and maybe horses will have their time in the sun again?
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by geoff » 01 Apr 2023, 7:37 pm

Pennsylvania Yank wrote:
geoff wrote:Have you heard the news Cecil - they wish to prohibit our horse drawn carriages. The madness of it all.

Say I am to capitulate to their ruling and purchase one of these preposterous motorcars for my ventures to the northern queensland savannah...where does the Governor expect I will find his precious distillate? In the billabongs? I shan't imagine I can source the fuels and oils for such a beast in the uncharted country, shall I? No, for I can feed my horse anywhere the grass does grow.

That is all to say nothing of the newfangled vulcanised tyres....


When automobiles replaced horses, it was almost universally self evident in a very short time that it was a vast improvement in technology and convenience for the world. That is not so much the case with EV's. When mandated on a vast scale, they will become a nightmare for society. They simply are not thinking out the logistics needed for such an effort or the vast environmental damage caused by mining for minerals for batteries on such a massive scale, or else they are thinking about it and their goal is to limit automobiles to only a certain segment of the population. Either way they don't care about your ability to travel via private vehicle. They are ideologues who are only concerned with accomplishing their global de-growth goals. They likely want the rich to buy EV's and the poor and middle class to move and stay closer to urban areas and ride public transport, and they wish to restrict your travel. They accomplish all of this by ending fossil fuels.....and maybe horses will have their time in the sun again?



So this big battery mineral mining extravaganza you talk about - that will probably drive a lot of economic growth yeah? How does that tie in with your degrowth boogeyman?

Degrowth is, at its core, an anticapitalist movement. How can you say that the push for EVs is an anticapitalist, anti economic growth agenda when the only people profiting from it are venture capitalists and shareholders of EV and battery mineral companies?

None of what you have said has a basis in reality. There's nothing remotely leftist about the push for EV adoption - make no mistake, the EV is not here to save the planet. It's here to save car manufacturers.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 01 Apr 2023, 11:03 pm

Nobody cares what “they” think.
Or their dumbass ideaolagoos.
Far moe important to keep up with the Joneses
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 02 Apr 2023, 12:17 am

geoff wrote:So this big battery mineral mining extravaganza you talk about - that will probably drive a lot of economic growth yeah? How does that tie in with your degrowth boogeyman?

Degrowth is, at its core, an anticapitalist movement. How can you say that the push for EVs is an anticapitalist, anti economic growth agenda when the only people profiting from it are venture capitalists and shareholders of EV and battery mineral companies?

None of what you have said has a basis in reality. There's nothing remotely leftist about the push for EV adoption - make no mistake, the EV is not here to save the planet. It's here to save car manufacturers.


Doesn't it equally kill off all the industry and jobs associated with ICE vehicles?
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by straightshooter » 02 Apr 2023, 7:08 am

You guys are pessimists, range anxiety doubters and probably climate deniers.
All that is needed is for somebody to invent a jerry can for electrons and hey presto we will be in electric vehicle heaven.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 02 Apr 2023, 7:37 am

Already a few brands on the market. Consistently getting smaller and more portable.

Image
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 02 Apr 2023, 7:46 am

Bladeracer you will be able to recharge your rail gun from your car :D
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 02 Apr 2023, 7:53 am

Get one for straightshooter with a crank charger on the front :lol:
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 02 Apr 2023, 9:07 am

Whenever something new comes along, or there's some change mooted, the usual suspects always turn up with the same tired, boring old conspiracy cliches and NIMBY complaining.

When mobile phones first came out, this same type of people were grumbling about "waste of money", "payphone on every corner", "too expensive", "battery doesn't last" etc.

I had one in the early 90s, and yes the battery was literally the size and weight of a house brick and only lasted a couple of hours, but within a couple of years they were small enough to put in a pocket and now they are not only ubiquitous, but almost essential.

The main theme with these complainer/conspiracy lovers is stamping their foot like a 5yo, telling Mummy they don't care if the veggies are good for them they want ice cream for dinner.

I've noticed a very strong similarity between them and the god botherers, their favourite conspiracy never seems to come true but still they believe it's just around the next corner.

My personal veiw of them;

1678146343974.png
1678146343974.png (391.16 KiB) Viewed 2292 times
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 02 Apr 2023, 10:03 am

geoff wrote:So this big battery mineral mining extravaganza you talk about - that will probably drive a lot of economic growth yeah? How does that tie in with your degrowth boogeyman?

Degrowth is, at its core, an anticapitalist movement. How can you say that the push for EVs is an anticapitalist, anti economic growth agenda when the only people profiting from it are venture capitalists and shareholders of EV and battery mineral companies?

None of what you have said has a basis in reality. There's nothing remotely leftist about the push for EV adoption - make no mistake, the EV is not here to save the planet. It's here to save car manufacturers.


I invest in mining stocks for fun and profit.

One of the things I know is it's physically impossible to mine all of the minerals needed in the next 12 years to totally go EV. Mining copper and nickel for instance is a very intensive process, not something you just wave a wand and it's done overnight.

In addition at the same time such as here in the USA, it's just about damn near impossible to open up a new mine for anything due to all the environmental bureaucracy at the state and federal level.

Certainly there will be people that make money and have made money but the way it is being structured with forced mandates and such, they are using government to reduce competition, raise barriers to entry and subsidize at a cost to everyone via "tax credits". As I mentioned before these people always promise us a panacea utopian world by somehow reducing supply and raising prices to unaffordable levels. Because no one right now has any plan for where all this electricity comes from, who builds all the infrastructure to transport all the electricity, where do you get all the minerals to build the batteries and who recycles all these toxic batteries?

What I look at is data and empirical evidence pointing to actual outcomes not emotional appeals of utopia. What I can clearly see is they don't have all the stuff to make it all happen and the end result is fewer people will be able to afford to run one of these EVs and along with the limitations of them, it's a reduction in freedom of movement and lifestyle for all. There is no upside.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 02 Apr 2023, 10:21 am

Lazarus wrote:Whenever something new comes along, or there's some change mooted, the usual suspects always turn up with the same tired, boring old conspiracy cliches and NIMBY complaining.

When mobile phones first came out, this same type of people were grumbling about "waste of money", "payphone on every corner", "too expensive", "battery doesn't last" etc.

I had one in the early 90s, and yes the battery was literally the size and weight of a house brick and only lasted a couple of hours, but within a couple of years they were small enough to put in a pocket and now they are not only ubiquitous, but almost essential.

The main theme with these complainer/conspiracy lovers is stamping their foot like a 5yo, telling Mummy they don't care if the veggies are good for them they want ice cream for dinner.

I've noticed a very strong similarity between them and the god botherers, their favourite conspiracy never seems to come true but still they believe it's just around the next corner.

My personal veiw of them;

1678146343974.png


Frankly I do not remember anyone at all bitching about cell phones, even back in the 90s when they were basically car phones only.

There again consider outcomes, not emotion.

It's like Barack Obama and Obamacare. President Obama told us with Obamacare we'd have lower costs with government enforced mandates and if we eliminated competition and reduced supply of healthcare by dividing up the USA into big monopolies run by big healthcare conglomerates. Instead healthcare costs exploded, the government structured rules as such to eliminate most private doctors offices and other providers and now thanks to states being divided into these fiefdoms there is very little competition and as a result you are stuck in most cases and service has suffered as a result. My personal healthcare insurance went up 600% within a few years and not only that, my deductible tripled. So in the end we heard a bunch of BS promises, utopian BS and all but the end outcome was less supply and competition and higher costs.

Same thing with EVs, they want to put everyone reliant on one electrical grid for everything including your personal movement, yet they have no plan to dramatically increase supply of electricity and allow for open competition between various technologies. No one pushing EVs can show how it's going to make life better for everyone with increased mobility, reduced costs, easy and cheap access to electricity, etc.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 02 Apr 2023, 11:17 am

wanneroo wrote:.

Same thing with EVs, they want to put everyone reliant on one electrical grid for everything including your personal movement, yet they have no plan to dramatically increase supply of electricity and allow for open competition between various technologies. No one pushing EVs can show how it's going to make life better for everyone with increased mobility, reduced costs, easy and cheap access to electricity, etc.


This is confirmation bias talking.

Sure, if you want to believe something, and only look to sources that tell you what you want to hear, you can "prove" anything.
To yourself.

As to the veracity of your claim, it's nonsense.
All over the world there's a push to increase grid connectivity to renewables and storage.

A common theme with deniers and conspiracists is the amorphous and sinister "they"
Who, precisely, are they?
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 02 Apr 2023, 11:41 am

I saw the value of mobile phones very early and paid $700 for the Nokia Sports analogue. That was an awesome phone. Dropped it numerous times off the roof and it never let me down. Building supervisors had all been given digitals as soon as that happened so they'd stop on-site to use my phone to make their calls. But I really wanted to be able to fax and email on-site and that required digital so I had to switch to a digital phone - can't recall which model it was now but it let me use a modem to plug it into my laptop and send faxes from on-site. I also had a printer so I would do my invoices on-site and print them for the supervisor when he came around. The phone and laptop allowed me to do all the business admin on-site, rather than me spending every night doing it all while my business partner was doing nothing at all (I still wore all the costs out of my own pocket). The phone got stolen and I replaced it with the Nokia 5310. I eventually replaced that with the Nokia N95 8Gb, only because my brother-in-law's son bought it on finance but never made a single payment so he took it off him and sold it to me in 2007(?). I eventually replaced that with my current Samsung S8+ Edge around 2018 for $1300. I smashed the screen at the LERAA shoot so I'm considering replacing it, but it still works and I'm still up for the $330 to repair it so it's a usable backup - I'll probably just keep it going.

When gas nail guns finally made it to Australia I grabbed those as well, out of my own pocket because my partner was too tight to buy into new tech.

If EV's were actually of some benefit I'd dive into those as well - they are not. We're off-grid so it wouldn't cost me anything to charge an EV anyway. I love electric and want to convert everything on the farm to electric, because those would be useful and a step forward. A road vehicle would be a backward step.


Lazarus wrote:Whenever something new comes along, or there's some change mooted, the usual suspects always turn up with the same tired, boring old conspiracy cliches and NIMBY complaining.

When mobile phones first came out, this same type of people were grumbling about "waste of money", "payphone on every corner", "too expensive", "battery doesn't last" etc.

I had one in the early 90s, and yes the battery was literally the size and weight of a house brick and only lasted a couple of hours, but within a couple of years they were small enough to put in a pocket and now they are not only ubiquitous, but almost essential.

The main theme with these complainer/conspiracy lovers is stamping their foot like a 5yo, telling Mummy they don't care if the veggies are good for them they want ice cream for dinner.

I've noticed a very strong similarity between them and the god botherers, their favourite conspiracy never seems to come true but still they believe it's just around the next corner.

My personal veiw of them;

1678146343974.png
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by straightshooter » 02 Apr 2023, 1:32 pm

Dear Lazarus
I am sure you are not guilty of confirmation bias, no way, not possible.
Your affirmations of the desirability and widespread viability of an all electric transport system nearly had me convinced of my own stupidity but nevertheless I still had doubts so I did a little google research which only took a few minutes and anybody can do for themselves.
It is based on the fact that each liter of fuel of any type used for transport purposes contains about 10 kilowatts of energy.
I examined the latest available Australian stats for total annual usage of transport fuel and the total annual generation of electricity from all sources combined with the use of simple arithmetic I arrived at the conclusion that for vehicular transport to go all electric then Australia's total installed electrical generation capacity has to increase from 266 Tw to 826 Tw or by about 3 times.
How likely is that to happen in a hurry.
Now I admit I could have made a mistake as I have just as much difficulty dealing with numbers that exceed my fingers and toes as most other people.
But at least I have tried to think for myself rather than parrot what has insinuated it's way into my consciousness.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 02 Apr 2023, 1:41 pm

Ok, that’s good. Got me flummoxed .
Someone else can take that one :drinks:
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 02 Apr 2023, 1:51 pm

straightshooter wrote:Dear Lazarus
I am sure you are not guilty of confirmation bias, no way, not possible.
Your affirmations of the desirability and widespread viability of an all electric transport system nearly had me convinced of my own stupidity but nevertheless I still had doubts so I did a little google research which only took a few minutes and anybody can do for themselves.
It is based on the fact that each liter of fuel of any type used for transport purposes contains about 10 kilowatts of energy.
I examined the latest available Australian stats for total annual usage of transport fuel and the total annual generation of electricity from all sources combined with the use of simple arithmetic I arrived at the conclusion that for vehicular transport to go all electric then Australia's total installed electrical generation capacity has to increase from 266 Tw to 826 Tw or by about 3 times.
How likely is that to happen in a hurry.
Now I admit I could have made a mistake as I have just as much difficulty dealing with numbers that exceed my fingers and toes as most other people.
But at least I have tried to think for myself rather than parrot what has insinuated it's way into my consciousness.


I think the intention is to push general population usage of ICE into extinction, by banning it outright and by taxing it into being non-viable. Then as all the wealthy people would've already bought into EV, and nobody else will be able to afford it, they won't have any need to increase the electrical infrastructure at all.

Job done. All for zero positive effect on the environment and enormous detriment to society.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 02 Apr 2023, 3:50 pm

straightshooter wrote:Dear Lazarus
I am sure you are not guilty of confirmation bias, no way, not possible.
Your affirmations of the desirability and widespread viability of an all electric transport system nearly had me convinced of my own stupidity but nevertheless I still had doubts so I did a little google research which only took a few minutes and anybody can do for themselves.
It is based on the fact that each liter of fuel of any type used for transport purposes contains about 10 kilowatts of energy.
I examined the latest available Australian stats for total annual usage of transport fuel and the total annual generation of electricity from all sources combined with the use of simple arithmetic I arrived at the conclusion that for vehicular transport to go all electric then Australia's total installed electrical generation capacity has to increase from 266 Tw to 826 Tw or by about 3 times.
How likely is that to happen in a hurry.
Now I admit I could have made a mistake as I have just as much difficulty dealing with numbers that exceed my fingers and toes as most other people.
But at least I have tried to think for myself rather than parrot what has insinuated it's way into my consciousness.


Well Straightshooter, it may shock, but I'm as prone to confirmation bias as every other concious creature, I just try to keep that in mind when looking for facts.

I'm not a god botherer, but I've read their bible, I'm neither a communist nor a nazi, but I've read their works.

I have not suggested this transition should, or even could happen overnight, but nothing would ever happen at all if the "Bah, humbug" Luddites had their way.

Nobody is coming to take our ICE cars away, but the only house we have is on fire and I'd rather find a way to put it out than pretend there's nothing to be done until the roof falls in.
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hurt, and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same
.
And that's why life is hard
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 02 Apr 2023, 6:35 pm

bladeracer wrote:
straightshooter wrote:Dear Lazarus
I am sure you are not guilty of confirmation bias, no way, not possible.
Your affirmations of the desirability and widespread viability of an all electric transport system nearly had me convinced of my own stupidity but nevertheless I still had doubts so I did a little google research which only took a few minutes and anybody can do for themselves.
It is based on the fact that each liter of fuel of any type used for transport purposes contains about 10 kilowatts of energy.
I examined the latest available Australian stats for total annual usage of transport fuel and the total annual generation of electricity from all sources combined with the use of simple arithmetic I arrived at the conclusion that for vehicular transport to go all electric then Australia's total installed electrical generation capacity has to increase from 266 Tw to 826 Tw or by about 3 times.
How likely is that to happen in a hurry.
Now I admit I could have made a mistake as I have just as much difficulty dealing with numbers that exceed my fingers and toes as most other people.
But at least I have tried to think for myself rather than parrot what has insinuated it's way into my consciousness.


I think the intention is to push general population usage of ICE into extinction, by banning it outright and by taxing it into being non-viable. Then as all the wealthy people would've already bought into EV, and nobody else will be able to afford it, they won't have any need to increase the electrical infrastructure at all.

Job done. All for zero positive effect on the environment and enormous detriment to society.


I don’t see that model getting the popular vote.
So you have a significant hurdle to overcome first.
Namely destroying all free democracies.
Failing that, I don’t see the profit in it for consumerism.
I don’t see corporate profits and returns and so I see no benefit to government.
And then , somehow you have to keep free enterprise out of the market
And ban access to the relevant knowledge
I dream of a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by geoff » 02 Apr 2023, 10:08 pm

Ok this thread is a write-off now
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