Compulsory electric vehicle madness

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 03 Apr 2023, 1:46 am

Lazarus wrote:
wanneroo wrote:.
Same thing with EVs, they want to put everyone reliant on one electrical grid for everything including your personal movement, yet they have no plan to dramatically increase supply of electricity and allow for open competition between various technologies. No one pushing EVs can show how it's going to make life better for everyone with increased mobility, reduced costs, easy and cheap access to electricity, etc.


This is confirmation bias talking.

Sure, if you want to believe something, and only look to sources that tell you what you want to hear, you can "prove" anything.
To yourself.

As to the veracity of your claim, it's nonsense.
All over the world there's a push to increase grid connectivity to renewables and storage.

A common theme with deniers and conspiracists is the amorphous and sinister "they"
Who, precisely, are they?


They is ESG/WEF/Bureaucrats/Climate Emergency/EV cultists.

All I do is look at the data and use the data to make decisions. No one can make a case for how we get from here to 2035. I've yet to see this big plan to dramatically increase power generation. What I do see is power plants being shut and threatened by the climate emergency types.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 03 Apr 2023, 1:50 am

geoff wrote:Ok this thread is a write-off now


Geoff is like you guys are talking facts and reality and we can't have that. :lol:

I'm a capitalist so hey if people want to buy an EV, go for it. If they are so good and great, the market will freely adopt them.

But I think the reason we keep hearing about mandates and bans is because "they" are not convinced the public is buying into this as the costs and issues make their life worse, not better.

I'm looking for things that make my life better and more enjoyable and EVs do not make my life better or more enjoyable.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Pennsylvania Yank » 03 Apr 2023, 6:06 am

geoff wrote:
Pennsylvania Yank wrote:
geoff wrote:Have you heard the news Cecil - they wish to prohibit our horse drawn carriages. The madness of it all.

Say I am to capitulate to their ruling and purchase one of these preposterous motorcars for my ventures to the northern queensland savannah...where does the Governor expect I will find his precious distillate? In the billabongs? I shan't imagine I can source the fuels and oils for such a beast in the uncharted country, shall I? No, for I can feed my horse anywhere the grass does grow.

That is all to say nothing of the newfangled vulcanised tyres....


When automobiles replaced horses, it was almost universally self evident in a very short time that it was a vast improvement in technology and convenience for the world. That is not so much the case with EV's. When mandated on a vast scale, they will become a nightmare for society. They simply are not thinking out the logistics needed for such an effort or the vast environmental damage caused by mining for minerals for batteries on such a massive scale, or else they are thinking about it and their goal is to limit automobiles to only a certain segment of the population. Either way they don't care about your ability to travel via private vehicle. They are ideologues who are only concerned with accomplishing their global de-growth goals. They likely want the rich to buy EV's and the poor and middle class to move and stay closer to urban areas and ride public transport, and they wish to restrict your travel. They accomplish all of this by ending fossil fuels.....and maybe horses will have their time in the sun again?



So this big battery mineral mining extravaganza you talk about - that will probably drive a lot of economic growth yeah? How does that tie in with your degrowth boogeyman?

Degrowth is, at its core, an anticapitalist movement. How can you say that the push for EVs is an anticapitalist, anti economic growth agenda when the only people profiting from it are venture capitalists and shareholders of EV and battery mineral companies?

None of what you have said has a basis in reality. There's nothing remotely leftist about the push for EV adoption - make no mistake, the EV is not here to save the planet. It's here to save car manufacturers.


Exploiting Africa and Asia for their mineral wealth was supposed to be verbotten according to the Left. Now it's fashionable again? The De-Growth movement is not about making Multinational corporations or their investors poor, it's not anti-capitalist, It's pro government controlled oligarchy. it's about forced lowering of the standard of living for the non-ruling class citizens via state control and mandates. That is certainly a Left Wing concept. We all have too many things. We are too free. Our homes are too big, we eat too much meat, etc etc It's all bad for the earth. Except the global elite don't care about saving the earth. They care about controlling our lives and our movement and seeking pie in the sky equitable outcomes for everyone even if they have to use brute force, and they think they are so much smarter than us they think they have a right to do it. Once these controls are in place, the economies of the world will still be chugging along. We will just be paying more money for less things and surviving on less of everything and paying more taxes for it. This EV push is not capitalism at work in any case, there was no gigantic consumer demand for vastly expensive EV's
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Pennsylvania Yank » 03 Apr 2023, 6:28 am

wanneroo wrote:
geoff wrote:

I invest in mining stocks for fun and profit.

One of the things I know is it's physically impossible to mine all of the minerals needed in the next 12 years to totally go EV. Mining copper and nickel for instance is a very intensive process, not something you just wave a wand and it's done overnight.

In addition at the same time such as here in the USA, it's just about damn near impossible to open up a new mine for anything due to all the environmental bureaucracy at the state and federal level.

Certainly there will be people that make money and have made money but the way it is being structured with forced mandates and such, they are using government to reduce competition, raise barriers to entry and subsidize at a cost to everyone via "tax credits". As I mentioned before these people always promise us a panacea utopian world by somehow reducing supply and raising prices to unaffordable levels. Because no one right now has any plan for where all this electricity comes from, who builds all the infrastructure to transport all the electricity, where do you get all the minerals to build the batteries and who recycles all these toxic batteries?

What I look at is data and empirical evidence pointing to actual outcomes not emotional appeals of utopia. What I can clearly see is they don't have all the stuff to make it all happen and the end result is fewer people will be able to afford to run one of these EVs and along with the limitations of them, it's a reduction in freedom of movement and lifestyle for all. There is no upside.


Yes completely correct. Well said.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Pennsylvania Yank » 03 Apr 2023, 6:57 am

Lazarus wrote:Whenever something new comes along, or there's some change mooted, the usual suspects always turn up with the same tired, boring old conspiracy cliches and NIMBY complaining.

When mobile phones first came out, this same type of people were grumbling about "waste of money", "payphone on every corner", "too expensive", "battery doesn't last" etc.

I had one in the early 90s, and yes the battery was literally the size and weight of a house brick and only lasted a couple of hours, but within a couple of years they were small enough to put in a pocket and now they are not only ubiquitous, but almost essential.

The main theme with these complainer/conspiracy lovers is stamping their foot like a 5yo, telling Mummy they don't care if the veggies are good for them they want ice cream for dinner.

I've noticed a very strong similarity between them and the god botherers, their favourite conspiracy never seems to come true but still they believe it's just around the next corner.

My personal veiw of them;

1678146343974.png


When mobile phones first came out they were very expensive like EV's today, but I don't remember the government announcing they were soon going to end to land lines essentially forcing people to buy a mobile phone sooner when it would have made their lives immensely worse and poorer at the time. Also, aside from granting contracts to phone providers, the US government did not pour massive amounts of money into AT&T and Bell. The technology was more or less allowed to evolve on it's own without government mandates. That is what should happen with EV's. If the technology advances to where I feel it's in my best interest to buy one, and if the price drops to a more reasonable level I can afford, I will eagerly do so, just like I did when I bought my first mobile phone.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 03 Apr 2023, 9:31 am

Pennsylvania Yank wrote:
When mobile phones first came out they were very expensive like EV's today, but I don't remember the government announcing they were soon going to end to land lines essentially forcing people to buy a mobile phone sooner when it would have made their lives immensely worse and poorer at the time. Also, aside from granting contracts to phone providers, the US government did not pour massive amounts of money into AT&T and Bell. The technology was more or less allowed to evolve on it's own without government mandates. That is what should happen with EV's. If the technology advances to where I feel it's in my best interest to buy one, and if the price drops to a more reasonable level I can afford, I will eagerly do so, just like I did when I bought my first mobile phone.


Yes, in the end market demand sorted it all out with cell phones, not government mandates.

And still to this day there are plenty of people with landlines, some connected through their internet, so even with widespread cell phone adoption, land lines continue to be used, especially with businesses.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 03 Apr 2023, 10:45 am

Wanneroo you have, I suspect deliberately, taken the wrong messaage from my analogy.

I mearly used the rapid evolution of mobile phones from an inconvenience to ubiquity as an example that nascent technology needs time, and as you say, market interest to evolve.

""They is ESG/WEF/Bureaucrats/Climate Emergency/EV cultists.""
This statement is a perfect illustration of conspiracist mentality.
You and I interpret what we read, see or hear about the above types of organisations from polar opposition.
Where you see shadowy cabals of conspirators, out to do you some nefarious mischief for some esoteric reason, I see people trying to keep the world's sh!t going uphill.

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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 03 Apr 2023, 10:58 am

Pennsylvania Yank wrote:When mobile phones first came out they were very expensive like EV's today, but I don't remember the government announcing they were soon going to end to land lines essentially forcing people to buy a mobile phone sooner when it would have made their lives immensely worse and poorer at the time. Also, aside from granting contracts to phone providers, the US government did not pour massive amounts of money into AT&T and Bell. The technology was more or less allowed to evolve on it's own without government mandates. That is what should happen with EV's. If the technology advances to where I feel it's in my best interest to buy one, and if the price drops to a more reasonable level I can afford, I will eagerly do so, just like I did when I bought my first mobile phone.


It was annoying to have spent a bundle on a phone only to have them shut down the analogue network turning our expensive phones into paperweights and forcing us to buy new digital phones. But the technology coming was all aimed at digital so it was actually an improvement...once the networks were put in place to carry it all - until then getting a signal was a real issue.

I was somewhat pushed into mobile phones as I was in a partnership where my partner believed work simply came to us from nowhere and that all the time and money I put into keeping us employed was entirely wasted, thus nothing to do with him. He never paid for a stamp or a phone call. Going to a laptop let me do all the invoicing and quoting on-site so I was at least being paid for the time I put in, but all the costs were mine alone. I still had to do all the contact work at home on my own time, until I got the mobile phone. When I worked on my own I went back to doing all the admin after work as I needed daylight to do the heavy lifting, but as all the income was my own I was still being paid for the admin work so it no longer mattered.

The simple fact that we are being bombarded with "information" forcing us to switch to EV is more than enough to convince me it's not workable technology and they need fools to invest into it. If the government thinks it's so good then they can give us EV's in exchange for ICE vehicles. They thought bolt-action rifles were better than semi-autos so they bought our semis so we could buy bolt-actions, they can do the same with their EV's.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 03 Apr 2023, 12:58 pm

Two thirds or more of new car sales in more advanced civilizations than Straya or Merica are EVs.
This debate is a decade old.
There's no need or reason to mandate or force people to buy them.
People just want the latest greatest tech.
I can see resistance in some of the southern states due to high rates of illiteracy
But we have an enviable education system in Australia so it's difficult to treat people like mushrooms.
We see other countries doing very well on more affordable renewable energy and it's somewhat embarrassing when you see countries like India and costa Rica with more advanced tech, clean energy, less pollution etc.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 03 Apr 2023, 2:37 pm

womble wrote:Two thirds or more of new car sales in more advanced civilizations than Straya or Merica are EVs.
This debate is a decade old.
There's no need or reason to mandate or force people to buy them.
People just want the latest greatest tech.
I can see resistance in some of the southern states due to high rates of illiteracy
But we have an enviable education system in Australia so it's difficult to treat people like mushrooms.
We see other countries doing very well on more affordable renewable energy and it's somewhat embarrassing when you see countries like India and costa Rica with more advanced tech, clean energy, less pollution etc.


We're told by the same people who deny climate change that renewable energy is bad for us, bad for jobs, bad for the economy and that 100% is not possible.

For their perusal;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100%25_renewable_energy
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 03 Apr 2023, 2:53 pm

Then why do we need laws to force us into it if it's so good? As has already been stated, make it available and let people decide for themselves whether they want to test the waters. If it works it'll take off on it's own.


Lazarus wrote:We're told by the same people who deny climate change that renewable energy is bad for us, bad for jobs, bad for the economy and that 100% is not possible.

For their perusal;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100%25_renewable_energy
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 03 Apr 2023, 4:33 pm

Sweden is on 50% renewable using hydro and bio energy . 75% of their auto market is evs
Scotland now on 97% renewable energy. 10% evs but their charging network is ******.
Iceland nearly 100% renewables geothermal and hydro. 60% auto evs
Germany 50% renewables. 32% auto evs
Uraguay 98% renewables. Bugger all EVs.
Denmark over 50% renewables wind and solar. 50% EVs
China is a bit of an unknown as in everything. We know they’re the world leader in solar and wind and claim pushing a third of energy supply with renewables. Way ahead in manufacturing evs. 25% auto sales last year, anticipating double that this year.
Morocco no stats but worlds largest solar farm. Bugger all bugger all infrastructure to support them. A lot of sand.
This one hurts the most. New Zealand 84% renewables with no government incentives. Private sector and raking it in. Evs 15% with a government subsidy.
We don’t even have a federal subsidy for evs in Aus.
Too many more to mention. Just pick any country but ours.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 03 Apr 2023, 4:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:Then why do we need laws to force us into it if it's so good? As has already been stated, make it available and let people decide for themselves whether they want to test the waters. If it works it'll take off on it's own.


Lazarus wrote:We're told by the same people who deny climate change that renewable energy is bad for us, bad for jobs, bad for the economy and that 100% is not possible.

For their perusal;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100%25_renewable_energy


Who’s forcing us ?
And if so then the real question is why do we need to be forced.

Switching to renewables is a global effort and we suck. We import 83 % of our oil.
Better to be independent and sovereign in our energy needs. Don’t have to send young people to fight wars. And the cascade of population displacement and famine. No polluting and destruction of our environment. Better standard of clean living.
All above mentioned countries just harnessed their natural resources.
We have the space, the sun, the wind, the tide. We should be a world leader.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 03 Apr 2023, 4:55 pm

womble wrote:Who’s forcing us ?
And if so then the real question is why do we need to be forced.

Switching to renewables is a global effort and we suck. We import 83 % of our oil.
Better to be independent and sovereign in our energy needs. Don’t have to send young people to fight wars. And the cascade of population displacement and famine. No polluting and destruction of our environment. Better standard of clean living.
All above mentioned countries just harnessed their natural resources.
We have the space, the sun, the wind, the tide. We should be a world leader.


Our government is forcing us, they plan to make ICE illegal chasing the impossible "net zero".

Have we improved our emissions though, or have we merely moved our industries that create the emissions to other countries?
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 03 Apr 2023, 4:56 pm

Remember when the previous clown potus had to fly over to Saudi Arabia to suck dick. Literally the same dicks that orchestrated 911.
Well now you know why.
The new clown potus doesn’t want to suck Arab dick. Just mandated all governments vehicles evs. At least that’s something.
Better than we can do.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 03 Apr 2023, 5:47 pm

bladeracer wrote:Then why do we need laws to force us into it if it's so good? As has already been stated, make it available and let people decide for themselves whether they want to test the waters. If it works it'll take off on it's own.



Do you believe climate change is real?

Do you believe we should try to do something about it?

If not EVs as a start, what?

We live in a closed system on this planet.
I see the situation we're in as analogous to living in a small caravan, running a gas stove and a kero heater, you can get away with it for a while, but unless you change to electricity or open a window, you'll will suffocate.
Unfortunately we can't open a window, so adult common sense will have to overcome the mental inertia of the naysayers.

Perhaps if the naysayers lived in Kiribati they would enjoy a different perspective.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 03 Apr 2023, 7:24 pm

I believe the climate changes, and I believe everybody should minimise their impact on the environment. EV's don't address our impact, they conceal it. The impact of mining thousands of times more lithium than we ever needed in the past, on top of all the other materials required to be mined or synthesized, is huge already, then add the damage done by trying to dispose of millions and millions of tons of used batteries when they're done. EV's are not a step forward, they're a step sideways at best.

Lazarus wrote:Do you believe climate change is real?

Do you believe we should try to do something about it?

If not EVs as a start, what?

We live in a closed system on this planet.
I see the situation we're in as analogous to living in a small caravan, running a gas stove and a kero heater, you can get away with it for a while, but unless you change to electricity or open a window, you'll will suffocate.
Unfortunately we can't open a window, so adult common sense will have to overcome the mental inertia of the naysayers.

Perhaps if the naysayers lived in Kiribati they would enjoy a different perspective.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by straightshooter » 03 Apr 2023, 7:42 pm

Dear Bladeracer
It's not enough to believe that the climate changes, one has to profess belief in CLIMATE CHANGE.
The various older South American civilisations appeased their climate gods by sacrificing virgins.
Unfortunately virgins are hard to come by these days so we might have to expand the selection criteria to include a broader range of public virtue signallers such as vegans, animal rights protectors, climate activists and greenies.
How many of these might come forward and offer themselves as an appeasement offering to the climate god.
Zero, thought so.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 03 Apr 2023, 7:59 pm

Big elephant in the room.
White gold, lithium.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Pennsylvania Yank » 03 Apr 2023, 8:07 pm

bladeracer wrote:I believe the climate changes, and I believe everybody should minimise their impact on the environment. EV's don't address our impact, they conceal it. The impact of mining thousands of times more lithium than we ever needed in the past, on top of all the other materials required to be mined or synthesized, is huge already, then add the damage done by trying to dispose of millions and millions of tons of used batteries when they're done. EV's are not a step forward, they're a step sideways at best.

Lazarus wrote:Do you believe climate change is real?

Do you believe we should try to do something about it?

If not EVs as a start, what?

We live in a closed system on this planet.
I see the situation we're in as analogous to living in a small caravan, running a gas stove and a kero heater, you can get away with it for a while, but unless you change to electricity or open a window, you'll will suffocate.
Unfortunately we can't open a window, so adult common sense will have to overcome the mental inertia of the naysayers.

Perhaps if the naysayers lived in Kiribati they would enjoy a different perspective.


Well said bladeracer.

Every single piece of heavy equipment in the world used to mine the minerals used for EV batteries runs on fossil fuel. The trains and ships used to transport the minerals run on fossil fuels. The factories that make the cars are powered primarily by fossil fuels,and so are the charging stations for the cars. If battery technology becomes light years better and less invasive on the earth, then yeah maybe you can say EV's are helping the planet, but until then nobody is talking about how EV's are essentially coal and natural gas powered because of their origins and upkeep. Also the exploitation of Africa and Asia for their mineral wealth is not talked about, and neither is the exploitation of the earth because that serves to destroy the narratives on EV's.. It takes 90,000 tons of ore to make just one EV battery and moving an average of 500,000 tons of earth to get the 90,000 tons of ore. We are destroying the planet to save it. Typical leftist hypocrisy.

Here are some inconvenient facts about how EV's are "saving" the planet

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/min ... lity-check
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 04 Apr 2023, 12:32 am

Lazarus wrote:We're told by the same people who deny climate change that renewable energy is bad for us, bad for jobs, bad for the economy and that 100% is not possible.

For their perusal;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100%25_renewable_energy


Well check out that 3 part documentary with Guy Martin on the electrical grid. On the second episode they let him into the main war room control panel that manages the entire electrical grid by the second in the UK. On windy days, the wind farms can provide up to 50% of the UKs energy but if the wind drops that can be close to zero. In order to keep the electric grid stable there is someone that has to sit there and move power around and send an order for nuclear or coal plants to step on the gas to send more power out. This happens by the second to keep the power on.

Right here at 3:30:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V-UiptxT6c

So yeah, awesome with wind, sun, tidal, etc. But it is impossible for that to keep the lights on for everyone and you need something else that is reliable and consistent.

Porsche is actually using wind to make gasoline from the air.

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/main ... -refinery/

I think it's pretty cool to develop these new technologies but we have to be grounded in reality and I don't see the reality from the WEFESGClimateCrisisBureaucratFarLeftTechnocrat crowd, just promising people they'll have more by getting less and magic is gonna happen.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by wanneroo » 04 Apr 2023, 12:39 am

Lazarus wrote:We live in a closed system on this planet.
I see the situation we're in as analogous to living in a small caravan, running a gas stove and a kero heater, you can get away with it for a while, but unless you change to electricity or open a window, you'll will suffocate.
Unfortunately we can't open a window, so adult common sense will have to overcome the mental inertia of the naysayers.

Perhaps if the naysayers lived in Kiribati they would enjoy a different perspective.


Uhhh, ever hear of photosynthesis?

This is basic elementary school biology.

Without CO2, we die because there will be nothing to eat. CO2 has been made some big villain but it's essential for life on the planet. The more CO2 around the more the plants grow. Any greenhouse owner knows this and uses it to their benefit.

People have been making any emissions out to be a bad thing and humans are bad, cows are bad, etc. but one big belch of a volcano will dump more CO2 into the air than any human activity.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 04 Apr 2023, 3:58 am

Bloody volcanoes.
Yeah the plants aren’t cutting it anymore. Too much co2 and they retain water, doesn’t evaporate and now the plants are helping with the warming. I’ve never liked plants.
It’s a multi tiered problem and there’s no single fix. Has to be addressed in multiple combined ways.
In recent times the mega rich corporations has just spun it back onto the consumer. Reduce your carbon footprint, recycle, plant a tree. Feel good for helping save the planet. Just a convenient way for corporations to pass the blame and keep doing things as always really
The individual contribution isn’t enough.
I’m going to assume evs are a stopgap until we develop better tech, but it’s what we have now. The reality is ultimately need to reverse climate change but in the meantime we can’t go above 2 degrees. That just puts too much of the worlds population in uninhabitable regions.
Which is why all the military industrial complex is gearing up to control territory.
Anyway, as a peasant, evs in mass scale is something the individual can do to help.
One benefit of the global pandemic was a measurable pause. Without the cars and jets etc. which we can’t honestly just put down to coincidence.
Scomo took that to the global climate wankfest, hey look we did 15% last year. And they basically just told him he was a d**khead.

I still don’t want one. I’m very happy with how small turbo diesel’s are going. But maybe the wife’s next runabout will be a small ev. I’ll probably have to get her one so she can keep up with her friends on Facebook bitch club. Can accessorise with her pandora bracelets and her feral pomeranian. Keeps her from complaining for a while then yes I’ll do it.
Resale concerned me at first but now some manufacturers are offering guaranteed buy back finance schemes so yeah maybe.
I still think they’re a bit pretentious and gay. But then I also used to think the blokes with the first mobile phones were wankers. And in fairness they acted like pretentious wankers.
Now I have a mobile phone even though I really don’t know how to use it. I think it’s stupid and Indians call me all the time and I can’t understand them.
They are a strange people. Friendly enough, don’t mind a yarn, but it’s a weird culture when you you all just walk around with your underpants on your head phoning people overseas to talk to.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 04 Apr 2023, 4:33 am

This is about the best I could find that keeps it a simple as possible . Without politics or political influencers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yiw6_JakZFc

Just basically, relax, don’t panic. Enjoy life, do what you can and stay positive.
Government mandates, forced legislation. Well s**t, we demanded it. It’s not they. It’s us.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 04 Apr 2023, 9:18 am

wanneroo wrote:
Lazarus wrote:We live in a closed system on this planet.
I see the situation we're in as analogous to living in a small caravan, running a gas stove and a kero heater, you can get away with it for a while, but unless you change to electricity or open a window, you'll will suffocate.
Unfortunately we can't open a window, so adult common sense will have to overcome the mental inertia of the naysayers.

Perhaps if the naysayers lived in Kiribati they would enjoy a different perspective.


Uhhh, ever hear of photosynthesis?

This is basic elementary school biology.

Without CO2, we die because there will be nothing to eat. CO2 has been made some big villain but it's essential for life on the planet. The more CO2 around the more the plants grow. Any greenhouse owner knows this and uses it to their benefit.

People have been making any emissions out to be a bad thing and humans are bad, cows are bad, etc. but one big belch of a volcano will dump more CO2 into the air than any human activity.


This is the most preposterous thing you've said yet, and that's a high bar to jump.

Uhhh...ever heard of oxygen?
We all breath it, can't live without it, but if there's too much oxygen at too high pressure it's poisonous, so your analogy is just silly.

The sources both you and PY use are proof of my assertion of confirmation bias, both the Manhattan Institute and the National Review are far right conservative organisations with a typically far right agenda.
Did you look anywhere else or just to those sources that reinforce your beliefs?

You both speak as though manufacturing ICE vehicles and the oil industries that support them just produce fluffy kittens as a by product.

We can all find something, somewhere on the internet to "prove" we are right if we look hard enough.

Here a a couple who look at it objectively.

https://electrek.co/2021/03/01/mining-e ... on-cycles/

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news ... 04c4b9ff95
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Stupidity is the same
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by Lazarus » 04 Apr 2023, 4:24 pm

Hey Blade, I've been thinking about what you suggested, that personal vehicular transport will be extinct before EV's become mainstream, and I have to ask why you think this will happen?

As I see it, even by the time "they" have paved the entire world and public transport stops at everyone's premises, there will still be people either needing or wanting a personal vehicle, but I would be interested in your reasoning.
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Stupidity is the same
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 04 Apr 2023, 4:47 pm

Just let it go.
Blade has always been neutral and unfortunately got drawn into our usual crap.
He’s a wealth of advice and information firearms related. And puts in a lot of helpful effort.
This discussion can go in circles endlessly.

Nonetheless it’s good to question the narrative, question authority.
Why am I being told to hate evs
Why am I being told to hate renewables
Why am I being told to hate a teenage girl.
Why am i being told to hate gays.
Why am I being told to blame everything on feminism.
Why am I being told to hate black people.
Those who want the answers will dig and find them in their own time. You just have to consider who or what you empower when you subscribe to their narrative and your answer lies there.
Hate is a powerful tool. Those who teach it know well what man is capable of. The goal may be chaos and total collapse of society. To reset it and mobilise their own twisted visions for a new world.
Or in this case not to. To keep the empowered safe in their high castles.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by bladeracer » 04 Apr 2023, 5:49 pm

Lazarus wrote:Hey Blade, I've been thinking about what you suggested, that personal vehicular transport will be extinct before EV's become mainstream, and I have to ask why you think this will happen?

As I see it, even by the time "they" have paved the entire world and public transport stops at everyone's premises, there will still be people either needing or wanting a personal vehicle, but I would be interested in your reasoning.


It gets harder every year to licence an older vehicle, and more expensive. Older cars now end up scrapped, despite being perfectly drivable for many more years, because people can't justify throwing $1500 at RWC and licencing a twenty or thirty year old car. When I was growing up you simply bought a $3000 ten year old car, drove it for ten years, then sold it for a grand and bought another ten year old old car. That's no longer viable, at least not in Victoria. We owned our cars, we weren't in hock to a bank for them. They are killing this off, it won't be long before it'll actually be "cheaper" to go into debt for a new vehicle than to own, licence and run an old one. And EV's seem to depreciate faster than anything else on the road. I knew a bloke that bought a Prius when they came out, well over $40k I think it cost him (a _heap_ of money back then). Had it for a few years, wanted to step up to something else, and pretty much couldn't give the thing away.
Screenshot 2023-04-04 172544.jpg
Screenshot 2023-04-04 172544.jpg (131.09 KiB) Viewed 2172 times

Here you go, $40k in 2001, now worth $2000-$3000 secondhand. Toyota Corolla on the same site, $22k in 2001, currently $2000-$3450. I'll have the Corolla every day of the week thanks.

Tesla Model Y, $98k+ORC, 1997kg empty, 604km range, made in China. I thought that site had a finance calculator but I can't find it. WestPac have a car finance calculator that only goes up to $100,000, and they knock the rate down from 6% to 5% for electric or hybrid. So you'd pay $119k over seven years at $1415 per month. Paying an extra $20k to drive a car you don't own - that makes no sense to me at all. And because you don't own it you also have to have comprehensive insurance on it so the real owner doesn't lose out if you destroy it.

People will certainly want personal transport, but I don't think it will be viable to own them. And if people aren't owning and licencing them who will pay to maintain the road infrastructure? It's already falling apart.

Of course, if people believe that being in debt to rent a vehicle owned by a bank is "progress" then it may drag on for a bit.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 04 Apr 2023, 7:20 pm

The answer is in your first sentence. Second hand ones will be affordable for anyone.
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Re: Compulsory electric vehicle madness

Post by womble » 04 Apr 2023, 7:21 pm

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