I watched Putins so called Celebration Day ceremony.

[Lazarus]

They have attacked Russian but it's been sparodic attacks, flying a suicide drone into the Kremlin, the kerch bridge, helicopter attacks across the border blowing up fuel stations, drone attacks on airfields damaging bombers, targeted assassinations of civilians.
None of it is going to change the outcomes.

Ah Yorik, that was one of Putin's lamest attempts at a false flag yet.
If you believe that was a genuine Ukrainian attack, I have this nice bridge, going cheap.
Just enough of a bang to destroy the drone, that was flying past the Kremlin not into it, cameras fortuitously pointing in just the right direction at just the right moment, I mean, come on.
There was no more than a couple of grams of explosive involved, the fireball from the fuel left in the tank was clearly for visual effect to fool the faithful.
They even had 2 people on the roof ready to put out any flames.

https://youtu.be/eIv5zvajgG4

[Oldbloke]

They have attacked Russian but it's been sparodic attacks, flying a suicide drone into the Kremlin, the kerch bridge, helicopter attacks across the border blowing up fuel stations, drone attacks on airfields damaging bombers, targeted assassinations of civilians.
None of it is going to change the outcomes.

Ah Yorik, that was one of Putin's lamest attempts at a false flag yet.
If you believe that was a genuine Ukrainian attack, I have this nice bridge, going cheap.
Just enough of a bang to destroy the drone, that was flying past the Kremlin not into it, cameras fortuitously pointing in just the right direction at just the right moment, I mean, come on.
There was no more than a couple of grams of explosive involved, the fireball from the fuel left in the tank was clearly for visual effect to fool the faithful.
They even had 2 people on the roof ready to put out any flames.

https://youtu.be/eIv5zvajgG4

100%. Half a cup of ANFO or some fireworks.

[Lazarus]

A spark plug mounted in a tank 3 parts full of vapour, one of those on the roof push a button on the drone controller, likely a button normally used for another reason, pop, job done.

The last thing the Ukrainians really want is someone competent running the gulag, or to give Putin a reason to escalate even further.

[mchughcb]

Continually quoting Wikipedia quoting the pentagon isn't going to convince me of anything.

If the numbers were as high as that Russia lost an army of mercs which it did not.

Tell you what Yorik, as you keep insisting that we're all wrong and only you know the "real" truth, that you don't trust the media and you don't trust Wikipedia, how about you elighten us?

Post up some links to where you get your unimpeachable gospel.

Why? You believe whatever you like.
I don't need to convince you of anything, you do your own research and if Wikipedia is it, do be it.

[mchughcb]

They have attacked Russian but it's been sparodic attacks, flying a suicide drone into the Kremlin, the kerch bridge, helicopter attacks across the border blowing up fuel stations, drone attacks on airfields damaging bombers, targeted assassinations of civilians.
None of it is going to change the outcomes.

Ah Yorik, that was one of Putin's lamest attempts at a false flag yet.
If you believe that was a genuine Ukrainian attack, I have this nice bridge, going cheap.
Just enough of a bang to destroy the drone, that was flying past the Kremlin not into it, cameras fortuitously pointing in just the right direction at just the right moment, I mean, come on.
There was no more than a couple of grams of explosive involved, the fireball from the fuel left in the tank was clearly for visual effect to fool the faithful.
They even had 2 people on the roof ready to put out any flames.

https://youtu.be/eIv5zvajgG4

He needs a false flag for what?

[S O K A R]

Continually quoting Wikipedia quoting the pentagon isn't going to convince me of anything.

If the numbers were as high as that Russia lost an army of mercs which it did not.

Tell you what Yorik, as you keep insisting that we're all wrong and only you know the "real" truth, that you don't trust the media and you don't trust Wikipedia, how about you elighten us?

Post up some links to where you get your unimpeachable gospel.

Considering Wikipedia entries can be edited by almost anyone, I'd say there is a good reason to doubt their validity.
Not to mention majority of the links being posted in this thread are either articles written by mainstream media journalists or opinion pieces by individual groups/sites that have a history of being one sided.

Although the back and forth in this thread is amusing at times.

[Lazarus]

Come on Yorik, either back yourself up or admit your "information" is not worth an arse full of cold steam.

You continue to bag people's comments, contradict virtually everything, yet seemingly don't have the chops to back it up.

Fess up or shut up.

[Lazarus]

Continually quoting Wikipedia quoting the pentagon isn't going to convince me of anything.

If the numbers were as high as that Russia lost an army of mercs which it did not.

Tell you what Yorik, as you keep insisting that we're all wrong and only you know the "real" truth, that you don't trust the media and you don't trust Wikipedia, how about you elighten us?

Post up some links to where you get your unimpeachable gospel.

Considering Wikipedia entries can be edited by almost anyone, I'd say there is a good reason to doubt their validity.
Not to mention majority of the links being posted in this thread are either articles written by mainstream media journalists or opinion pieces by individual groups/sites that have a history of being one sided.

Although the back and forth in this thread is amusing at times.

That's true SOKAR, but short of pulling random claims out of our butts like it appears Yorik is doing, where else?
We have to look at everything, sift obvious nonsense or propaganda, plus the agenda if any, of the network proprietors, and make our up our own minds.
Not everything, everywhere is false.

[mchughcb]

Continually quoting Wikipedia quoting the pentagon isn't going to convince me of anything.

If the numbers were as high as that Russia lost an army of mercs which it did not.

Tell you what Yorik, as you keep insisting that we're all wrong and only you know the "real" truth, that you don't trust the media and you don't trust Wikipedia, how about you elighten us?

Post up some links to where you get your unimpeachable gospel.

Considering Wikipedia entries can be edited by almost anyone, I'd say there is a good reason to doubt their validity.
Not to mention majority of the links being posted in this thread are either articles written by mainstream media journalists or opinion pieces by individual groups/sites that have a history of being one sided.

Although the back and forth in this thread is amusing at times.

100%. I could post something on the casualties listed by Wikipedia but what's the point. It would be refuted anyway. The Russians will recover every dead body in that city and then you can believe what numbers they list or not.

When it comes to Intel and propaganda the Russian MoD abd Wagner have been far more accurate than the British MoD, NATO and Ukraine .

All of these major city battles have resulted in thousands surrounded , killed or captured.

No major offensive to break the siege has tried or worked resulted in needless casualties.

[womble]

The battle for Bakhmut started about 9 months ago. I don't think 9 months and 2 weeks is "steam rolling".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bakhmut

You can’t edit this stuff
Scroll down all references are listed , nearly 300 of them. It’s the best researched information there is to date.

[Oldbloke]

Continually quoting Wikipedia quoting the pentagon isn't going to convince me of anything.

If the numbers were as high as that Russia lost an army of mercs which it did not.

Tell you what Yorik, as you keep insisting that we're all wrong and only you know the "real" truth, that you don't trust the media and you don't trust Wikipedia, how about you elighten us?

Post up some links to where you get your unimpeachable gospel.

Considering Wikipedia entries can be edited by almost anyone, I'd say there is a good reason to doubt their validity.
Not to mention majority of the links being posted in this thread are either articles written by mainstream media journalists or opinion pieces by individual groups/sites that have a history of being one sided.

Although the back and forth in this thread is amusing at times.

100%. I could post something on the casualties listed by Wikipedia but what's the point. It would be refuted anyway. The Russians will recover every dead body in that city and then you can believe what numbers they list or not.

When it comes to Intel and propaganda the Russian MoD abd Wagner have been far more accurate than the British MoD, NATO and Ukraine .

All of these major city battles have resulted in thousands surrounded , killed or captured.

No major offensive to break the siege has tried or worked resulted in needless casualties.

Must be a bastard job for you to be over there counting and auditing all of the body counts.

After all, that's the only way to be certain.

[mchughcb]

The battle for Bakhmut started about 9 months ago. I don't think 9 months and 2 weeks is "steam rolling".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bakhmut

You can’t edit this stuff
Scroll down all references are listed , nearly 300 of them. It’s the best researched information there is to date.

So I scrolled down the reference list and a lot is CNN or Ukrainian sources. But the best bit was at the bottom.

Lasted Edited by Linkin Prankster.

[Oldbloke]

Sooo, what's inaccurate that he edited?

[str8shutr]

Well, finally the Ukrainians have got some lethal airpower:
https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/zelensky-touched-by-kiwi-pms-offer-to-send-over-air-forces-doorless-cessna-206-and-two-revolvers-to-shoot-from-it/
They'll have the Rooskis booted out in no time.

[mchughcb]

Sooo, what's inaccurate that he edited?

In the first page. Ukraine has rejected Russian claims that the city has been completely captured.

Believe what you want. I believe the Wagner when they hoist flags on the buildings on the Western part of the city.

Or believe what Ukraine tells you on Wikipedia because it has a reference.

"On 20 May 2023, Wagner Group founder Yevgeny Prigozhin and the Russian defence ministry both claimed that Bakhmut was completely captured. Ukraine denied Prigozhin's claim and said heavy clashes for the city were ongoing,[41][42][43] the Ukrainian military rejected Russia's claim of capturing the city.[44]"

[Oldbloke]

Sooo, what's inaccurate that he edited?

In the first page. Ukraine has rejected Russian claims that the city has been completely captured.

Believe what you want. I believe the Wagner when they hoist flags on the buildings on the Western part of the city.

Or believe what Ukraine tells you on Wikipedia because it has a reference.

"On 20 May 2023, Wagner Group founder Yevgeny Prigozhin and the Russian defence ministry both claimed that Bakhmut was completely captured. Ukraine denied Prigozhin's claim and said heavy clashes for the city were ongoing,[41][42][43] the Ukrainian military rejected Russia's claim of capturing the city.[44]"

Nothing proven. Means nothing. Just Russian propaganda.

I'm a world champion target shooter.
It's on a forum so must be true.

[mchughcb]

Just Russian propaganda?

Okay let's stick with official sources.

https://youtu.be/kKbsmQHZmu4

[Oldbloke]

Just Russian propaganda?

Okay let's stick with official sources.

https://youtu.be/kKbsmQHZmu4

tempFileForShare_20230522-213448_616450580650357(1).jpg (191.51 KiB) Viewed 141 times

[Oldbloke]

Sooo, what's inaccurate that he edited?

[womble]

There are reliable reports that Bakmut has been vacated.They have levelled the place to rubble. Killed everyone there that didn’t leave. Flew the flag then buggered of. Nothings in there but drones and bodies.
It’s weird. Not much of a corridor to disappear into. Wagner are depleted no doubt. And Russia is refusing them prison recruitment now, because that’s for the army. Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re butting heads with the brass, not getting paid or something.
Truth is the first casualty of war, rule number 1.
You have to discard the accounts from Russia and Ukraine. Obviously they will be very biased and one sided.

It’s messy. Most all information is going to be at least 5 days old. Neither side wants to forecast their current or next movements.
Stick with impartial observers. More reliable and well reputed info. Historically accurate.
Reuters, Aljazeera, Associated Press. For maps MIlitaryMaps.
Business insider is good. BBC is pretty good. Cspan is pretty good . Generally not for profit public organisations. Without agendas and private influence.

[mchughcb]

I'm reading Wagner just got a 100,000 new applications.

[mchughcb]

Well, finally the Ukrainians have got some lethal airpower:
https://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/zelensky-touched-by-kiwi-pms-offer-to-send-over-air-forces-doorless-cessna-206-and-two-revolvers-to-shoot-from-it/
They'll have the Rooskis booted out in no time.

Always good for a laugh. In all seriousness I hunt with one of the last official kiwi fighter pilots. After the F111 were returned he left the airforce and immigrated to Australia. NZ could defend itself but given its so far from anywhere I guess its a moot point.

[Lazarus]

Well there it is.

The exact answer from Yorik that I expected, the sound of crickets chirping.

He can't give us sources, because all he has is ewechoob and his fevered imagination.

They say the emptiest vessels make the loudest noise.

[Lazarus]

An interesting article from General Mick Ryan

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-23/ ... /102375736

[womble]

I'm reading Wagner just got a 100,000 new applications.

A lot more than that.
200 US dollars a month is a lot of money for some.
But Wagner doesn't cover expenses to get there

[Oldbloke]

"Truth is the first casualty of war, rule number 1."

And that's why we need to be cynical regarding everything we read or see on any media. Esp youtube, faceache and forums.

[animalpest]

To paraphrase Churchill

The truth is so important that it must be surrounded by a body of lies.

[mchughcb]

Well there it is.

The exact answer from Yorik that I expected, the sound of crickets chirping.

He can't give us sources, because all he has is ewechoob and his fevered imagination.

They say the emptiest vessels make the loudest noise.

Here is a tip for life, there is no use in insulting people then demanding answers.

The media has gone quiet since the fall. First time in modern history a standing army backed by NATO lost a battle to mercenaries.

[Lazarus]

Well there it is.

The exact answer from Yorik that I expected, the sound of crickets chirping.

He can't give us sources, because all he has is ewechoob and his fevered imagination.

They say the emptiest vessels make the loudest noise.

Here is a tip for life, there is no use in insulting people then demanding answers.

The media has gone quiet since the fall. First time in modern history a standing army backed by NATO lost a battle to mercenaries.

Funny how those who love to wind up others always seem so sensitive.

Look at it purely objectively, you state, and I'm paraphrasing, that your sources of information are far superior to those of us mortal peasants, you mock us for taking the information from our sources seriously, yet you repeatedly refuse to name the origins of what you, alone, assert is the real truth.

If you want anyone here to think of you as anything other than a blowhard sh!t-talker, you need to back up what you say.

Who knows, if you do, you may actually convince us you're right.

Ever think of that?

Or perhaps, as has been mooted, it's just the argument you're interested in?

[Lazarus]

I'm reading Wagner just got a 100,000 new applications.

Here's a perfect example, reading where?

I've just spent 15 minutes trying every search string I can think of, and did not get a single mention.

Not even on Russian sites.