NSW Police Brutality

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NSW Police Brutality

Post by Lazarus » 21 May 2023, 10:36 am

As it seems the previous thread regarding police brutalising the disabled and demented appears to have been removed for some reason, some pissy Karen calling the "manager" or the police monitors stepping in :unknown: , and the hidden record of this being an ongoing occurrence, I felt it necessary to start a new one to bring this report to light.
A report showing that the tragic case of Mrs Nowland is far from the first time both "care" home staff and police have drastically overreacted to easily solved situations.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... h-dementia
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by straightshooter » 21 May 2023, 1:13 pm

There is absolutely nothing stopping any of the immediate family of Mrs Nowland starting a private prosecution of the responsible policeman for grievous bodily harm and attempted murder or murder as the case may eventually be.
I am sure if they tried to crowdfund the case they would be overwhelmed with contributions and could afford the best legal minds to prosecute the case for them.
The only danger would be that the DPP might take over the case and then lie doggo.
It's about time that the average copper learnt that his/her job is not simply about improving their superior's KPI's by reacting over zealously for some issues (as we shooters are well aware of) and with complete lassitude to other more serious offences.

edit: I wonder how long it will take for this thread to disappear.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Lazarus » 21 May 2023, 3:15 pm

Well put straightshooter.

One point we should perhaps bear in mind, though, is that if there is to be any such actions, we should try to avoid posting anything that could pose a detriment to those actions, whether civil or criminal.

Nothing you said above is any problem, but I've been thinking about the removal of the previous thread, and it was trending towards the problematic, my own comments included.

This is a subject that needs to be aired loudly and publicly, but also responsibly.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by mchughcb » 21 May 2023, 3:48 pm

Pensioners are a threat to society. Just look at the way the Vic police handled them for being outside 5km from their house or more than one hour per day.
The die is cast. Pensioners, pregnant women, all are up for quality policing in the name of health.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Oldbloke » 21 May 2023, 3:54 pm

straightshooter wrote:There is absolutely nothing stopping any of the immediate family of Mrs Nowland starting a private prosecution of the responsible policeman for grievous bodily harm and attempted murder or murder as the case may eventually be.
I am sure if they tried to crowdfund the case they would be overwhelmed with contributions and could afford the best legal minds to prosecute the case[/b] for them.
The only danger would be that the DPP might take over the case and then lie doggo.
It's about time that the average copper learnt that his/her job is not simply about improving their superior's KPI's by reacting over zealously for some issues (as we shooters are well aware of) and with complete lassitude to other more serious offences.

edit: I wonder how long it will take for this thread to disappear.



It may not be as simple as you think. However it's a great idea. And IMO should be attempted in this case.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by northdude » 21 May 2023, 5:13 pm

The thing that leaves a bad taste in your mouth is why don't they take this approach with the gangs and proper crims??? Oh yea I think most of us know the answer to that one.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Oldbloke » 22 May 2023, 5:00 am

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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by bigrich » 22 May 2023, 5:53 am

i'm absolutely appalled that medical centres/hospitals resort to calling police over patients that the hospital should have procedures and adeqately trained staff to handle . cops do a extremely difficult job , but the over the top treatment of dementia patients and the elderly needs to be reveiwed and addressed by our police department .

according to the news article link ,TWO sets of handcuffs on a frail 45kg dementia patient ! really ?

tassered a 95 year old ?!? what is up with some members of our police ? if their unable to deal with frail elderly people , how do they deal with hardened criminals and 1% hard core bikers ? i'm lost for words.......
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by MtnMan » 22 May 2023, 6:08 am

bigrich wrote: if their unable to deal with frail elderly people , how do they deal with hardened criminals and 1% hard core bikers ? i'm lost for words.......


Easy..... they don't.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Larry » 22 May 2023, 7:32 am

bigrich wrote:i'm absolutely appalled that medical centres/hospitals resort to calling police over patients that the hospital should have procedures and adeqately trained staff to handle . cops do a extremely difficult job , but the over the top treatment of dementia patients and the elderly needs to be reveiwed and addressed by our police department .

according to the news article link ,TWO sets of handcuffs on a frail 45kg dementia patient ! really ?

tassered a 95 year old ?!? what is up with some members of our police ? if their unable to deal with frail elderly people , how do they deal with hardened criminals and 1% hard core bikers ? i'm lost for words.......


Was it the top cop who refused to watch the video from the coppers cam. I watched some of it before it disappeared never to be released again. The cops were speaking in a nice old lady tone but the actions were beyond any normal persons response. Yes two pairs of cuffs and those things are not fragile or comfortable. Total BS for a person of that age and mobility to be treated like that. Not a proportionate response to the situation.

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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by straightshooter » 22 May 2023, 8:55 am

Listening to the Radio National news this morning suggests the spin doctors are now right onto it.
In my, albeit limited, conversations with other people it would seem that the state government may come out of this rather badly if they don't deal with this matter decisively and promptly rather than hiding behind smoke and mirrors.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by straightshooter » 22 May 2023, 9:09 am

Oldbloke wrote:[[b]quote="straightshooter"]There is absolutely nothing stopping any of the immediate family of Mrs Nowland starting a private prosecution of the responsible policeman for grievous bodily harm and attempted murder or murder as the case may eventually be.
.........[/quote]

It may not be as simple as you think. However it's a great idea. And IMO should be attempted in this case.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

Actually it is.
One of course would have to wade their way through the bureaucratic process.
Any person in NSW, being the victim of an unlawful act, or their representative, can launch a prosecution in court in the absence of that prosecution being undertaken by a state authority.
This is a little understood fact among the general public who are used to and expect to looked after by the state machinery.
You don't need to be somewhat delusional like one of those 'sovereign citizen' types.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Oldbloke » 22 May 2023, 9:41 am

Point being. Needs to be unlawful. NFI if in this case it's unlawful. Looks it, but?
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Lazarus » 22 May 2023, 9:52 am

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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by straightshooter » 22 May 2023, 12:15 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Point being. Needs to be unlawful. NFI if in this case it's unlawful. Looks it, but?

In the end it's the job of a court to decide.
The NSW police act empowers an officer to use as much force as may be necessary to detain a person for arrest. I can't remember the exact words.
Thus it does not give licence for an officer to use any more force than is necessary.
What happened to the LOL was roughly equivalent to a detained person being kerb stomped.
In any case the rationale behind the private prosecution of the individual officer concerned, in the event there is no proportionate official disciplinary action, was to punish the individual and not to take on the whole police force.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Oldbloke » 22 May 2023, 12:27 pm

straightshooter wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Point being. Needs to be unlawful. NFI if in this case it's unlawful. Looks it, but?

In the end it's the job of a court to decide.
The NSW police act empowers an officer to use as much force as may be necessary to detain a person for arrest. I can't remember the exact words.
Thus it does not give licence for an officer to use any more force than is necessary.
What happened to the LOL was roughly equivalent to a detained person being kerb stomped.
In any case the rationale behind the private prosecution of the individual officer concerned, in the event there is no proportionate official disciplinary action, was to punish the individual and not to take on the whole police force.


Your making sense.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by S O K A R » 22 May 2023, 3:01 pm

As outlined in section 230 of the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 (NSW), police officers may exercise force 'as is reasonably necessary' to exercise their powers.

This is reinforced by section 231, which states that police officers who exercise the power to arrest another person may use such force as is reasonably necessary to make the arrest or to prevent the escape of the person after arrest.

What is considered reasonable will depend on the circumstances of the incident and will include the level of resistance.

Other considerations include the suspect's age, gender, size, fitness, and skill level compared to that of the officers present.

If a use of force is deemed to be 'excessive' and beyond what is considered reasonable, the officers actions will be found unlawful.

This leaves them open to charges, similar to any normal citizen.

In addition, you may also be able to sue the NSW Police Force for compensation in civil proceedings.


I'd say given the circumstances it would fall under an excessive use of force, but that is just my opinion.
No doubt they will attempt to spin it in a way to say it was a "reasonable" amount of force used...
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by rossfrb » 22 May 2023, 3:50 pm

Cops have a crap job, however I'm having a hard time trying think of a situation where an elderly person in a walking frame carrying a steak knife had to be tasered.
UNCLASSIFIED Use of Conducted Electrical Weapons (Taser)
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... mation.pdf
P23 of 43
The following are situations where a Taser should not be used unless exceptional
circumstances exist. It should be understood that the exceptional circumstances
should comply with the Criteria to Discharge a Taser and be dependent on the
behaviour of the subject and the officer’s assessment of the situation, the environment
and the tactical options available. This includes:
[snip]
xiv. on an elderly or disabled subject(s)
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Lazarus » 22 May 2023, 4:00 pm

Good to know rossfrb :thumbsup:

I heard a report today that the individual in question is no longer required to be on desk work and is back on duty, but being "monitored by his fellow officers."

One can only speculate on the value of a senior constable who has to be monitored by colleagues to make sure he behaves. :unknown:
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by northdude » 22 May 2023, 4:22 pm

So if you have you cell phone in your pocket and you get tasered does it charge your phone
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Lazarus » 22 May 2023, 4:40 pm

And on it goes.

The last 2 paragraphs are the cruicial ones.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-22/ ... /102376612
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Blackened » 24 May 2023, 11:19 am

Lazarus wrote:As it seems the previous thread regarding police brutalising the disabled and demented appears to have been removed for some reason, some pissy Karen calling the "manager" or the police monitors stepping in :unknown: and the hidden record of this being an ongoing occurrence


The previous post was removed as it had devolved into pointless arguing.

The post was also in beach of the long published Off topic forum rules and appropriate content. As is this one.

Now, I've allowed this one to stay as a courtesy as the back and forth has remained constructive so far but let's be clear, this is a shooting forum and the topic you have posted has zero to do with shooting.

If you wish to discuss issues around NSW Police behaviour, I would suggest that you're on the wrong forum and should go elsewhere.

As to the "hidden record of this being an ongoing occurrence", neither I nor the other moderators owe you a log of our activities, or the reasons behind them. If we feel content is inappropriate for this forum we will remove it as we see fit, without explanation or justification.

Again, if you're unhappy with the content of this site, or how it is moderated, you should go elsewhere.

I will still leave this topic online for now, but will happily remove it, and you, if you prefer.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Lazarus » 24 May 2023, 12:25 pm

We have a misunderstanding, Blackened.

My fault for my poor sentence construction.

My reference to "an ongoing occurrence" was in relation to the calling of police to aged care homes, and our elderly getting mishandled.

Not thread moderation, which I wholly support.

Rereading the post, I see the issue that caused the misunderstanding of my meaning.

I will endeavour to improve my proofreading :drinks:
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by straightshooter » 25 May 2023, 1:03 pm

Blackened
I don't wish to be argumentative but this thread is quite relevant for we gun owners/shooters.
It serves to highlight the general heavy handed approach of the NSW police in many other areas not just with shooters.
In the past year three individuals of my closer circle of acquaintances have had their firearms seized, two for no actual offence of their own and for laughably trivial reasons. The other after being set-up for the most heavy handed AVO imaginable.
I also know of a rural property owner who reported a marijuana crop on a nearby property only to have the police seize his firearms.
The non firearm owning public are disinterested because it does not affect them however they might take notice if they come to the realisation that the same heavy handedness can just as readily be applied to them.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Oldbloke » 25 May 2023, 1:07 pm

straightshooter wrote:I also know of a rural property owner who reported a marijuana crop on a nearby property only to have the police seize his firearms.


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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Blackened » 25 May 2023, 2:33 pm

straightshooter wrote:Blackened
I don't wish to be argumentative but this thread is quite relevant for we gun owners/shooters.
It serves to highlight the general heavy handed approach of the NSW police in many other areas not just with shooters.


That's fine, SS. You're entitled to your opinion.

It has a neighboring relevance, I'll grant you. At the end of the day though, we have to draw the line somewhere.

If a topic is creating more problems than conversation, it will be removed. No one wants to read childish arguments between people who can't control themselves, and we're just not going to indulge such things.

The original post was deleted as much for the fact that it had become overly argumentative, as for not being directly related to the subject of this website.

As I noted above, this post has been allowed to remain as the discourse has been mature so far. If that continues, the post will remain. If it declines, it will be removed and repeat offenders banned.

The same rules apply as always.

If you'd like to start a topic about inappropriate police behavior in relation to safe inspections or in their dealing with licensed firearms owners, you're more than welcome to.
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by animalpest » 25 May 2023, 3:45 pm

Blackened wrote:That's fine, SS. You're entitled to your opinion.

It has a neighboring relevance, I'll grant you. At the end of the day though, we have to draw the line somewhere.

If a topic is creating more problems than conversation, it will be removed. No one wants to read childish arguments between people who can't control themselves, and we're just not going to indulge such things.

The original post was deleted as much for the fact that it had become overly argumentative, as for not being directly related to the subject of this website.

As I noted above, this post has been allowed to remain as the discourse has been mature so far. If that continues, the post will remain. If it declines, it will be removed and repeat offenders banned.

The same rules apply as always.

If you'd like to start a topic about inappropriate police behavior in relation to safe inspections or in their dealing with licensed firearms owners, you're more than welcome to.


Good on you. It is so anoying to have threads turn into personal slinging attacks and often not even associated with what's being posted
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Lazarus » 02 Jun 2023, 12:44 pm

It seems the NSW police are adapting

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/shar ... 1f7b234906
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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Jun 2023, 2:58 pm

Lazarus wrote:It seems the NSW police are adapting

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/shar ... 1f7b234906


Is that like ummm bacteria and viruses?

Or more like "The Borg"?

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Re: NSW Police Brutality

Post by S O K A R » 02 Jun 2023, 5:30 pm

Lazarus wrote:It seems the NSW police are adapting

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/shar ... 1f7b234906

Next thing....

"We have decided to stop the use of police body cameras in the name of community safety"
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