The Voice

[bladeracer]

Nobody is being elected to parliament by the Voice. The Voice is an advisory body which can make representations to parliament on matters which concern Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. It has no veto power, in fact the government isn’t even required to listen.
What it does is to provide representation to a group who, like it or not, were the Original owners of this land and who have never been adequately respected for that. I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, that Australia is one of the few first world nations that still does not have some form of treaty with First Nations people.
Elected representatives are already influenced by lobbyists of all sorts. The SSAA, for example. The gaming lobby. Big business interests. Environmental lobby groups.
The only difference here is that the Voice gets constitutional guarantees that it will exist. Not a guarantee that it can influence government. Not a guarantee of its size or shape or makeup. It is guaranteed to exist and that is an important step in recognising the First Nations rights that are already recognised in many other countries.

If they were open about what it is, what it does, and who is behind it then people might support it. You'd be a fool to support anything with the vague information they have released about it.

[geoff]

Nobody is being elected to parliament by the Voice. The Voice is an advisory body which can make representations to parliament on matters which concern Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. It has no veto power, in fact the government isn’t even required to listen.
What it does is to provide representation to a group who, like it or not, were the Original owners of this land and who have never been adequately respected for that. I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, that Australia is one of the few first world nations that still does not have some form of treaty with First Nations people.
Elected representatives are already influenced by lobbyists of all sorts. The SSAA, for example. The gaming lobby. Big business interests. Environmental lobby groups.
The only difference here is that the Voice gets constitutional guarantees that it will exist. Not a guarantee that it can influence government. Not a guarantee of its size or shape or makeup. It is guaranteed to exist and that is an important step in recognising the First Nations rights that are already recognised in many other countries.

If they were open about what it is, what it does, and who is behind it then people might support it. You'd be a fool to support anything with the vague information they have released about it.

There is a plethora of information out there about what the voice will look like.

https://voice.gov.au/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-30/ ... /102792526


I could go on and on but nobody is going to open those two links, let alone read any of it. This page is a really clear and well written explanation:

https://voice.gov.au/about-voice/voice- ... rinciple-2

The no campaign just wants to scream and shout about the absence of information while the rest of us are drowning in clear information

It's just a lobby group, that's all it is.

[Larry]

And why should that lobby group get more representation than others. What about all the lobby groups that advocate health research such as cancer or ever just weed.
Oh those groups have formed a party and trying to get representation through the normal established system.

[geoff]

And why should that lobby group get more representation than others. What about all the lobby groups that advocate health research such as cancer or ever just weed.
Oh those groups have formed a party and trying to get representation through the normal established system.

Because since federation our systems of government were built and designed to keep a certain group of people down.

Extraordinary discrimination requires extraordinary reparations

[Larry]

bulls**t this referendum is the biggest racial dividing factor in the last 100 years. There are already 9 indigenous peoples in the gov if they can do it so can other if they could be bothered but No this mob want a hand out and after this just like the sorry statement they will want more. Let bygone be bygones and move forward together in the system that exists.
If they dont like the system there is still plenty of empty unused land where they have total rights to do what they want. These are the areas where there is the most family violence and incest not to mention alcohol abuse. How many of there self governed areas are prosperous as we know it.

[mchughcb]

And why should that lobby group get more representation than others. What about all the lobby groups that advocate health research such as cancer or ever just weed.
Oh those groups have formed a party and trying to get representation through the normal established system.

Because since federation our systems of government were built and designed to keep a certain group of people down.

Extraordinary discrimination requires extraordinary reparations

Tax payers!

[womble]

Murdock still holds too much power over public opinion. It’s going to fail and the world will view us as an ugly place.
And then when it fails they will have a such magnitude of proof that they are discriminated against that it cannot ever be contested.
And then they will be rolling in money for anything they ask.
Best outcome is yes.
This is a better compromise than a treaty. And by design it actually gives them nothing material. Nor any political power to approve any additional funding or resources.

[Wallaby stew]

My grand kids play with the aboriginal kids that live up the road, they have sleepovers and dinner at each others homes and love each others company.
I can't help but imaging that this will change as the wedge gets driven between them. It certainly won't help them stay friends.

[womble]

Advert for the yes campaign in full https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=QJKARw0WH79CJ3hj&v=br8dB_0z3Fk&feature=youtu.be

[Strangedog]

If the voice goes through does anyone actually belive we will be on our way to reconciliation. Why aim for something that will obviously never be achieved.
We said sorry remember, it made Rudd look good for a while.This is just the next stunt Albo wants as his perceived legacy.
They'll never be happy uless they stop looking in the past with a chip on their shoulder and instead look to the future where we are all Australians.
Identity politics is such a waste of time and effort for no gain except in division.
My ancestors where treated poorly too, I can't hold on to the grudge.

[Oldbloke]

Katters party position.

https://sportingshooter.com.au/news/com ... ead%20More

[womble]

I would have more empathy if our own long culture of shooting and hunting had constitutional recognition.
Because they’ve been trying hard to erase that too for the past 30 odd years.
Allow me the constitutional right to harvest food from my environment, albeit public land, and I’ll get back to you on the voice.
Many of the No votes will come from people, aussies, who have other grievances. Though the voice in itself is not one of them.
The government of this land is so far removed from it’s people because it dose’nt listen to them.
You want to listen to them then you must listen to us also.
Because my people came here in chains and they were not treated well either.

[Jackaroo]

When do the Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, Chinese etc etc get a Voice as well in the AUSTRALIAN parliament?

The past can NEVER be changed,

[womble]

Vietnamese is a good example. They came here as refugees from a war torn horror. Their history at the hands of colonialism is horrific.

[Larry]

Wow I just saw this vid that popped up in my U tube adds. If only there was more evidence one way or another. To think the current indigenous people exterminated the civilization that was here before them would be a real hit to the first peoples arguments and probably solve a lot of problems as it takes the sting and the victim out of the argument. We would then both be colonists taking advantage of the original inhabitants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hEsYW_1vxY&t=225s

[womble]

That video is asserting that Aus was inhabited by pigmies and the ginnies hunted and ate them all.
I enjoyed it.
But yeah naah.
Apon the arrival of Europeans they were still living in the Stone Age. So really they’ve been left out of the loop for a long time.
That really speaks for itself.
Not a whole lot of interaction with other humans.

But ok let’s consider the pigmy theory. How did they get there. They didn’t just fall out of the sky. You’re going to need to find a race of seafaring midgets out and about conquering foreign lands around 60 thousand years ago. Not dodgy canoes and pos rafts. We’re talking long boats and some extremely violent angry midgets.
And these nasty little buggers are going to be at least Iron Age.

[stihl88]

That's not far fetched, we see today Indonesians floating on hand made wooden rafts not far from the mainland... The top of Australia through to PNG is littered with Islands, perfect refuge while Island hopping to the mainland.

I'll ask this then, if we all supposedly came out of Africa how did the Natives get here, which lands or bodies of water did they cross and how?

The theory is that the original 30,000 - 50,000 year old inhabitants (1st Nations) were wiped out about by the modern day inhabitants (2nd Nations) about 5000 years ago, the Guavanese bush dog (modern name = Dingo) coincidently arrived on the mainland about the same time, thought to have been bought across in their canoes from Guava. Coincidently about 5000 years ago many native fauna were wiped out in a "mass extinction" proven by many studies, carbon dating etc. The Guavanese Bush Dog is thought responsible for this extinction event wiping out animals that were not in sync with such a ferocious killer.

Funny thing is that the 2nd Nations "natives" could never figure out how to cross the Bass Straight which is why the last known original inhabitants of Tasmania survived up until the 20th century and were quite physically different from their mainland counterparts.

Even funnier is white man managed to cross Bass Straight in a bath tub...!

[Billo]

stihl88 who said we came out of Africa ?? more likely Europe if you've been following the Turkish discovery recently

[Oldbloke]

The so called "midgets".
They did exist in Indonesia about 50,000 years ago. I am unaware of any archaeological finds in AU though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis


And it's been long accepted that the dingo was introduced via NG abt 5,000 years ago.
It is very likely the New Guinea singing dog. This does suggest the Aboriginals have been here abt 5,000 years but I think carbon dating has proven about 40,000yrs. NFI where 65,000yrs as has been bandied about lately.

Its an introduced dog and should probably have a pest status throughout the country. But tell the greenies that.

https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments ... -the-dingo

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea_singing_dog

[stihl88]

stihl88 who said we came out of Africa ?? more likely Europe if you've been following the Turkish discovery recently

Almost everyone, doesn't mean i agree with it that's why i said supposedly. I frankly don't care where we came from, we're all one and people need to stop splitting us down the middle.

[womble]

That’s true. I think there’s been about 12 species of hominids that have inhabited the planet at various times. And at times shared inhabiting it.
But there’s only one left in the world today.

Ok fine, I’m down with pigmy theory. If they came from the north they likely would have been fleeing cannibals. Being considerably easier to fit a pigmy in a pot. And still have room for potatoes and yams etc
I would have preferred Viking pigmies with axes. But never mind.

[Larry]

Its all very interesting dont think I buy into it 100% prepared to give it some critical thinking as the commenters above have shared some good reasoning. Not being iron age they prob didn't have big pots. s**t are so claimed first peoples did they even have pottery certainly I dont know of any large pieces ever being on display. They were true cavemen.

Watched another vid of Lidia Thorpe presented by Andrew Bolt. dont pay any attention to his name he is just showing her in Parliament what she says gives you a good idea what the first nations org is after. God help us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7IDrYpuINg

[womble]

Who needs pottery when you can drink from a pygmy skull

[geoff]

Keep going fellas you're doing a great job of making shooters look like well rounded people of a modern world.

[on_one_wheel]

For what it's worth, it may help someone decide how to vote.
I work with a handful of indigenous lads all of which are upstanding, hard working lads, I asked the elder "so how are we voting?"
He told me without hesitation that it's a no vote from him and everyone he knows, so that's how I'm voting.

[stihl88]

Keep going fellas you're doing a great job of making shooters look like well rounded people of a modern world.

So no debate, rebuke or discussion on the topic from you Geoff just straight to chastisement?

[bladeracer]

Keep going fellas you're doing a great job of making shooters look like well rounded people of a modern world.

So no debate, rebuke or discussion on the topic from you Geoff just straight to chastisement?

The "yes" side consider the rest of to be racists and not worth talking to.

[Billo]

Keep going fellas you're doing a great job of making shooters look like well rounded people of a modern world.

So no debate, rebuke or discussion on the topic from you Geoff just straight to chastisement?

I'm not sure why just an Advisory body has so many alarmed ?? its not like Legislation is being changed.

This ain't no treaty, the States can move down that path if they like.

Not sure that Dutton and Morrison are making the LNP any more electable

[womble]

The debate around it is alarming though. I think they should just scrap it.
Reasoning being it’s not closing the gap before it’s even begun.
I like the concept of doing something really big for them . Because we haven’t been great historically.
And it’s recent history too and continues today. Anyone being honest with themselves has seen some of them mistreated in their lives, growing up. Even if you didn’t partake in it personally. I’ve seen it and I do reflect on it.
They truly do deserve some kind of reckoning and celebration.
There’s no doubt they are a disadvantaged segment of society even with all goods intentions.
But you need bipartisan support otherwise we get this mess.
If we could just take some time out, postpone it, tweak it a bit. Get the discussion turned around till more people are on board with it all.

[straightshooter]

Last week I listened to Marcia Langton on Radio National being interviewed in response to the headline that she accused No voters of being racist and stupid.
Although she denied the headline she then spoke for a good 15 minutes, largely uninterrupted, explaining just how No voters are racist and stupid.
The incongruity of this form of argument eludes a conscious understanding by most people and is a technique favoured by cultural marxists. Namely accuse your opponent of the things you are in reality doing.
I don't believe that the overwhelming majority of Australians are racist in the current understanding of the term.
Especially when one considers that, by definition, the referendum proposal is acutely racist.
There are also other matters not finding their way into popular discussion such as what is the definition of an indigenous Australian or in other words who is and who isn't indigenous.
At this point in time polling indicates it is looking like the vote will be 60% No against 40% Yes, in spite of the massive amount of corporate direct funding and indirect support.