The Voice

[Larry]

I hate starting a thread that is so political but would love to hear others Opinions.

IMHO at the moment is a No I believe that any person that wants to have a say in Parliament should be elected to the position. There are already 9 people that identify as Indigenous in Parliament that were elected so the argument being put forward is a lie and flawed.

I really wonder what the true motive is behind this. Will the change Australia day? s**t would they even change the name of Australia? I cant keep track of all the name changes I dont even recognize the place any more. Just found out that Fraser Island has been renamed. Whats next. The Treaty lots of money for all. Perhaps its time to identify as an Aboriginal never have to work again.

[Billo]

Larry the whole Voice thing is a red Herring designed to flush out the Woke Conservatives, it has buckley's of passing but the LNP is already self immolating.

[mickb]

I see it as a deliberate distraction, give the plebs a few bones to chew on, rather than address the real issues - that inflation has pretty much knocked the middle class for 6 and the next generation isnt going to be buying their own home.

[womble]

I’m just abstaining.
I’ve tried to understand it. I still don’t.
I’m over it. I don’t care. Whatever

[Strangedog]

No. For that many reasons that I couldn't be bothered to write them.

[Oldbloke]

They lost my vote 12months ago.

[Kelsey Cooter]

It goes against democracy and it is going to divide our nation.
I think it is yet another example that shows our political system is getting dangerous.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for improving life for aboriginal Australians, but the voice isn't going to do anything towards helping those who actually need it.

As far as Aus day goes, I'm a selfish bugger and actually want it changed. Let's change it to a floating public holiday so I can have a 3 day weekend every January. The last friday of January would suit me just fine for camping haha

[womble]

It doesn't go against democracy.
If it did you wouldn't get to vote on it.
Its democracy in action. The only way you can change the constitution is by the people.

[straightshooter]

If nothing else a yes vote will permanently entrench a "privileged" class of people in the constitution that may never be reversed. This will be over and above the many "affirmative action" classes we already have.
How does this tally with Labour's purported universal aspiration of egalitarianism.

[womble]

If nothing else a yes vote will permanently entrench a "privileged" class of people in the constitution that may never be reversed. This will be over and above the many "affirmative action" classes we already have.
How does this tally with Labour's purported universal aspiration of egalitarianism.

It doesn't.
It wasn't a Labor concept.
And you are correct in that's what it gives them, an elevated social status.
That's not something that can be conceived from left of centre.

[womble]

Consider that the only people who see the value in giving them a privileged status would first need to believe in a hierarchal society. ie: right of center.
It’s conception goes back to 2007.
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Hansard/Hansard_Display?bid=committees/commjnt/26826/&sid=0007

I can see pros and cons. I can see potential good outcomes and possible bad outcomes.
At a grass roots level it encourages a sense of pride in their culture which is a good outcome.
But I can also see a more radical element taking advantage of their new found status to line their own pockets.
So as said, I’m abstaining. I decline my vote. I just don’t have a definitive yes or no opinion on it.

[Larry]

It doesn't go against democracy.
If it did you wouldn't get to vote on it.
Its democracy in action. The only way you can change the constitution is by the people.

Ok would it be more accurate to say that it goes against our system of democracy.

We have a system where people are nominated to stand to represent their contemporary's. By either themselves or others.
There is then a vote for that person against others who where nominated.
The person that receives the most votes ie the person that the "Community " decides will represent them.

This is open to all Australian Citizens. To show it works there are already 9 Abos or whatever they want to be called already that have used this process to have there voice heard in Parliament to represent their communities so the system works.

When People are appointed by other means and by WHO? this is not democratic.

[Strangedog]

I don't like any policies based on the colour of your skin or what race you are. I thought we moved away from that line of thinking decades ago.

[womble]

You're right Larry
I hadn't thought of it that way

[mchughcb]

If nothing else a yes vote will permanently entrench a "privileged" class of people in the constitution that may never be reversed. This will be over and above the many "affirmative action" classes we already have.
How does this tally with Labour's purported universal aspiration of egalitarianism.

It doesn't.
It wasn't a Labor concept.
And you are correct in that's what it gives them, an elevated social status.
That's not something that can be conceived from left of centre.

WTF are you talking about? You think the various communist party leaders didn't have all the perks while the plebs toiled in the fields, mines and factories?

[mickb]

Whatever happens, no doubt it will result in a flow of money from workers pockets to not workers pockets.

[Billo]

Newspoll has Albo up 4% to 58% as the Better PM, Dutton has fallen another 2% to 26%.

I suspect Albo is letting the LNP roll out there mildly racist position before committing to the final push, risky strategy thou.

Not fused if it fails, a big believer in survival of the fittest

[womble]

Well intended no doubt but a colossal waste of money if it fails and seems likely.
But when it does independent states will just legislate their own versions.
I don’t know. Our constitution is a pos anyway. Have at it.

[mickb]

Meanwhile post covid inflation races so far ahead the next generation, black and white will be flat out affording a cardboard cut-out to live in. The richest sectors of society just made bank. They didnt just get richer the last few years, they invented new levels of rich. And we get months of uber-branded mumbo-jumbo race issues while more money empties out of middle class pockets,

My greatest concern is how the rhineharts, musks, bezos and gates of the worlds are going to read their net worth before long. They will need smartphone screens so wide they have jockey wheels.

[6mm Remington]

Spot on Mick B .....There are more important things effecting all Australians at the moment and the real Aboriginals in the communities up north know nothing about it. It is another scam to bleed the wealth from the common man.
Just remember that this has been proposed by the same wanker who promised cheaper electricity bills if he was elected.

[mchughcb]

Snowy Hydro 2 just hit $12B which will be peanuts compared to the payments required if this goes through.

[Larry]

Just got an email from the VRA saying that they had avoided having the State Rifle Range closed at Wellsford in Bendigo. To do that they had to renew the lease with Parks Victoria or the Gov they have to pay $10,000 per and rename the rifle range to a name to be decided by the Wurrung tribe and put up signage recognizing the Wurrung tribe as the traditional owners and explaining the new name.

What will happen if the yes vote gets in. Push the gov to a treaty and who knows what that would demand.

[womble]

It costs 10k to get them to make up a funny name

[Larry]

No the 10k is for the Gov per year. Renaming everything is for our landlords. We wont know the place soon.
Stupid thing is even the abos wont really know what its called. There is a different language for every family group or small region. Its not lie a universal Australian language.

[Oldbloke]

Snowy Hydro 2 just hit $12B which will be peanuts compared to the payments required if this goes through.

What else would you expect from a libtard like Turnbullshitartest?

[Faedy]

We are royally f***ed

[womble]

No the 10k is for the Gov per year. Renaming everything is for our landlords. We wont know the place soon.
Stupid thing is even the abos wont really know what its called. There is a different language for every family group or small region. Its not lie a universal Australian language.

They’re a bit like the Danish then https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk&pp=ygUPc3BlYWtpbmcgZGFuaXNo

[Larry]

It gets worse I have some new neighbors and just having a chat to them about there new house they went through the process they had to go through to buy the block of land. After paying the council and extortionate amount like 30k for planing permits and all sorts of other stuff that I never had to do or pay for my block 30 years ago they finally got to the part where they had to have the land checked by the local Indigenous peoples who look more white than me. They were lucky and given an all clear otherwise they had to pay more for them to come and make smoke on the property. Next they will be told what name to give the property. Our rights as landowners that we have paid for are under attack. Its not a fear campaign as proof of it happening right now is evidence of the intentions.

Sorry finish rant I am not against or hold any grudge against the black fellas I would feel the same way if it was just big brother Albo or anyone else telling me what I have to do on my property after all the years of hard work paying for it maintaining it and making improvements.

[mchughcb]

It gets worse I have some new neighbors and just having a chat to them about there new house they went through the process they had to go through to buy the block of land. After paying the council and extortionate amount like 30k for planing permits and all sorts of other stuff that I never had to do or pay for my block 30 years ago they finally got to the part where they had to have the land checked by the local Indigenous peoples who look more white than me. They were lucky and given an all clear otherwise they had to pay more for them to come and make smoke on the property. Next they will be told what name to give the property. Our rights as landowners that we have paid for are under attack. Its not a fear campaign as proof of it happening right now is evidence of the intentions.

Sorry finish rant I am not against or hold any grudge against the black fellas I would feel the same way if it was just big brother Albo or anyone else telling me what I have to do on my property after all the years of hard work paying for it maintaining it and making improvements.

Spot on Larry

[joneda1]

It doesn't go against democracy.
If it did you wouldn't get to vote on it.
Its democracy in action. The only way you can change the constitution is by the people.

Ok would it be more accurate to say that it goes against our system of democracy.

We have a system where people are nominated to stand to represent their contemporary's. By either themselves or others.
There is then a vote for that person against others who where nominated.
The person that receives the most votes ie the person that the "Community " decides will represent them.

This is open to all Australian Citizens. To show it works there are already 9 Abos or whatever they want to be called already that have used this process to have there voice heard in Parliament to represent their communities so the system works.

When People are appointed by other means and by WHO? this is not democratic.

Nobody is being elected to parliament by the Voice. The Voice is an advisory body which can make representations to parliament on matters which concern Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders. It has no veto power, in fact the government isn’t even required to listen.
What it does is to provide representation to a group who, like it or not, were the Original owners of this land and who have never been adequately respected for that. I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, that Australia is one of the few first world nations that still does not have some form of treaty with First Nations people.
Elected representatives are already influenced by lobbyists of all sorts. The SSAA, for example. The gaming lobby. Big business interests. Environmental lobby groups.
The only difference here is that the Voice gets constitutional guarantees that it will exist. Not a guarantee that it can influence government. Not a guarantee of its size or shape or makeup. It is guaranteed to exist and that is an important step in recognising the First Nations rights that are already recognised in many other countries.