bigpete wrote:Apparently judgemental whiners
bigpete wrote:Apparently judgemental whiners
Die Judicii wrote:Oh my hairy aunt,,,,,,,,,,,, What are we breeding
wanneroo wrote:I'm all for helping people via government that are disfigured or disabled. But this stuff of giving fat bloated lazy people money to sit around and do nothing with their lives except get into trouble, doesn't help them and it doesn't help us.
Die Judicii wrote:
Oh my hairy aunt,,,,,,,,,,,, What are we breeding
NTSOG wrote:G'day wanneroo,
Unfortunately, we cannot make 'fat bloated lazy people' change their ways. It's their Right to be the slobs they are.
Jim.
NTSOG wrote:straightshooter: "there is no incentive or drive within these people to seek an improvement in their circumstances."
The psychologist Jordan Peterson reports that the US military will not accept recruits whose measured IQ is under 83 +/-. This is because such people are so limited intellectually the military has no use for them. They cannot find jobs which such people could perform correctly and safely. An IQ score of 85 is one standard deviation below the notional norm of 100. A person with an IQ around 70 is considered borderline intellectually disabled/mentally retarded. If highly structured military services cannot find jobs for those with IQs around 83-85 what meaningful employment opportunities are available for them in open society which is far less ordered and regimented? There is a whole class of people who may have been employable as day-labourers in the past doing simple and repetitive menial jobs like digging ditches, but, as society has become more sophisticated and employment more technically focused, what can these people do? Job opportunities for them are increasingly limited. Hence going on 'welfare' of some sort is attractive.
Jim
NTSOG wrote:DJ: "My point was,,,,,, that they appeared to be (as a result of their physical appearance) not fit, and therefore would have difficulty in fighting their way out of a soggy wet paper bag with the side ripped open.'
"as a result of their physical appearance"
That went straight through to the keeper, but you're correct. We have taken on the US 'McDonald's diet and lifestyle'. Obesity is rampant due to too many calories in and few calories expended through physical work.
Jim
wanneroo wrote:NTSOG wrote:straightshooter: "there is no incentive or drive within these people to seek an improvement in their circumstances."
The psychologist Jordan Peterson reports that the US military will not accept recruits whose measured IQ is under 83 +/-. This is because such people are so limited intellectually the military has no use for them. They cannot find jobs which such people could perform correctly and safely. An IQ score of 85 is one standard deviation below the notional norm of 100. A person with an IQ around 70 is considered borderline intellectually disabled/mentally retarded. If highly structured military services cannot find jobs for those with IQs around 83-85 what meaningful employment opportunities are available for them in open society which is far less ordered and regimented? There is a whole class of people who may have been employable as day-labourers in the past doing simple and repetitive menial jobs like digging ditches, but, as society has become more sophisticated and employment more technically focused, what can these people do? Job opportunities for them are increasingly limited. Hence going on 'welfare' of some sort is attractive.
Jim
Having spent plenty of time pondering the world's problems and the cause, my personal conclusion at this moment in time is that low IQ is directly related to how poor people's lives are in that particular community.
If one looks at all the hellhole countries or cities in the world, typically they have a population with a very low IQ.
Recently with the Israeli and Gaza conflict I saw a study of 3000 young adults in Gaza that was done a few years ago by some British organization. Average IQ in Gaza is 67. Plenty of people were asking the question why after the Israeli's left almost 20 years ago why Gaza couldn't do what the Israeli's did with creating prosperity in the desert and the answer I believe is most of the Gazan population is retarded and has no chance. They are not smart enough to build their own prosperity, so they lash out at their neighbors. The elite Gazans who have a brain exploit all the little people and make sure the population stays retarded so they can continue the skim.
Most of Africa and the Middle East, the average IQ in many countries is below 70, which to me explains exactly what the issue is.
We see the elites in charge backing illegal immigration en masse from these areas and it's all deliberate. You can't control and exploit Western nations so well when the population is intelligent. Bring in tons of retarded people, cause chaos and societal decay, use that to gain power and control.
One thing I learned studying about IQ is that below 90 IQ people don't think any about long term consequences of their actions which results in them doing impulsive and unpredictable things, often harming others.
Give stupid people a wide berth.
NTSOG wrote:Lazarus: "The question of nature vs nurture as an influence in physiological development has always fascinated me."
Did you mean psychological or physiological development. One term pertains to the mind, the other to the body.
Jim
Jorlcrin wrote:Obesity is a complex beast, and dealing with it will likely take generations to address.
I think we need to start with children, and drum into them that obesity is as dangerous long-term as smoking and/or excessive drinking.
Diet and exercise/activity are key to that, but how you convince them to ditch the high-sugar/fat diet and phone/gaming console in this age, I have no idea.
I did weight-loss surgery in 2017, before a vascular surgeon would fix a blood-plumbing defect I was born with( that was trying hard to kill me).
Plumbing defect had been unknown my whole 50 years of life, but turns out is quite common(May-Thurner Syndrome).
I'm pretty sure the problem snowballed as a result of my excessive weight, and poor health at the time it first appeared in the form of a massive blood-clot in my left leg(2014).
Vasc. Surgeon said it wasnt worth his time if I didnt get the weight off first, and he strongly doubted I would keep it off through diet alone.
And the fact was; he was exactly right.
So, I went under the knife, and had stomach sleeve surgery, where they removed 80% of my stomach.
And I lost around 33%(58kgs) of my pre-surgery body weight.
My sleeve surgery resulted in me no longer feeling hunger; suspect they took that bit out.
But one of the catches, is that(according to the Bariatric surgeon) the largest nerve in the human body, is the one between the stomach and the brain.
And the brain can often tell me that I'm not eating enough, and routine can easily convince me that I need to eat, even if I dont need it.
This is easy to control in the paddock, or out on the run, or in the shed, but it's a bugger to control when you are in close proximity to the fridge..
So, DESPITE having a stomach that is about 35% the size of original(they expand a bit afterwards), 5 years on, it's still possible to eat more than I should.
I can still gain weight if I dont pay attention to my diet.
And if I'm preoccupied(like POXED office work), autopilot will tell me to raid the fridge..
In discussions with the Bariatric surgeon one time, I asked him if obesity is similar to a drug addiction, and he said that was about the best way to describe it.
My point is, that many of the middle-aged obese people I see out there(and I'm also horrified at how many there are), need a LOT of help to get back close to a healthy weight.
And most of them would kick me in the nuts before recognising that they actually NEED the help.
Many of them wont realise how many chronic health issues will vastly improve if they fix their weight.
I know I didnt...
In my case, chronic asthma, knees and hips failing, sleep apnoea and back issues, all faded into the background.
Their own stomach/brain will work against them to try to keep that weight on; my best description is a subconscious drive that says you are starving to death.
So, getting the youngest generation into the mindset that exercise and a healthy diet are key to a healthy life, would be a big step.
Yep; convincing them that days in front of the gaming console while eating endless packets of chips and guzzling Cola, ISNT good for their later years, is going to be a hard sell.
One of the most frustrating elements in this, is how government dont seem to want anything to do with subsidising weight-loss surgery, but are considering supporting a number of gender-reassignment/affirming procedures under Medicare.
Somewhat ironic that in these enlightened days, I get more support if I'm Trans and needing a Nip&Tuck to get everything looking perky, rather than helping a poor simple Fat-Phuk make it through their 50's.
My 2 cents.
NTSOG wrote:G'day Lazarus,
"how I can look at something and not see it ...?"
Welcome to the club. It's often the case with we males as we tend to focus more narrowly than women.
Getting back to IQ scores. IQ is not fixed according to psychologists. In the early days of IQ resting in C20 it was thought that IQ was fixed, but one's IQ as tested can be affected by all sorts of factors, even having a bad head cold on the day a person is tested. Cultural background is a factor: the US immigration service used IQ testing on Ellis Island to see if people were suitable to earn permission to enter the USA. The problem was that a test designed for US citizens whose primary language is English was not a fair test of someone who came from the backwoods of Siberia and spoke some Russian dialect. When I went to the USA to study for my MSc, I was required to take the Miller's Analogy Test: "a standardized test used ... for graduate school admissions in the United States". The test aims to measure an individual's logical and analytical reasoning. After I sat for the test, I explained to the test administrator that there were a number of items on the test that presumed a knowledge of US history which I had never studied. The administrator did not include those test items in my score. Those items on that test were culturally biased against me.
Intelligence is affected by many variables not just economic. Any of us could be rendered brain injured by a sudden whack on the head. Being poor does not directly make a person of low intelligence. Rather impoverished circumstances may limit his/her opportunity to develop to the maximum potential. Being very intelligent in an academic sense does not necessarily make a person smart in practice. I know some pretty stupid smart people.
Jim
Jim