Gun laws in France - a lot better?

[Vince24]

Hi guys

So yes I am French (nobody is perfect), permanent resident in Australia.

And I was thinking: there are a gazilion things that are better in Australia than in France (of course) but as far as our favorite hobby is concerned, I must admit that French 'new' gun laws (since 2013) make a lot more sense than here!

You want an air/gas pistol or an air rifle of less than 15 joules? You just need to be over 18, you don't need a licence. I was quite shocked here in OZ to learn that the process to acquire a single shot air pistol is the same as for a Glock, lol WTF.

You want to buy live ammo or primers from a shop 500 km away from your home, and have it delivered at your door like the last amazon package of your wife? No problem, no surcharge, will be shipped by the same couriers.

You want a rifle designed before 1900? No problem, you just need to be over 18, you don't need licence, UNLESS, the rifle you want is on the list of pre-1900 rifles that require a licence. The Mauser 98 and the Mosin 1891 are on the list. The Swedish Mauser (or any Mauser pre the 98 Mauser) is not on the list, the Carcano 1891 is not on the list, the Steyr 95, the Schmidt Rubin 1896/11 etc... So there are a bunch of rifles that you can get without a licence! In the recent years the interpretation of the law has become so laxist that now you can even get e.g. a Husqvarna M38 produced in 1942 without a licence, which in my view is going a bit too far.

Noting that without a licence you can't buy live ammo though, nor primers or powder. So you need a licence to shoot them somehow. But at least those vintage guns can be purchase instantly with no paper and no traces on any register.

You want that Tikka T3 CTR that has just come up online? no problem it will be delivered to you within 48 hours. No PTA in France, the transaction just need to go via a professional (on the seller or buyer's end) which will register the change of ownership in the national register.

You have just a couple of bolt action rifles and you don't want to buy a safe? No problem, for a bolt action rifle, they can sleep in your wardrobe, the only obligation is that the bolt must be held separately. Only ammo needs to be locked.

You want a semi-auto rifle? It's absolutely possible, if that rifle was not designed to shoot full auto (i.e. can't be made to) - the requirements are just harder: you need prior approval (like the PTA here), it needs to sleep in a safe, you can't have more than 15 in most cases (and not more than 6 in your first 5 years of having a licence). But you don't need a genuine reason (unless you want more than 15). Note that 15 is a limit for all semi-auto weapons combined (rifles and handguns).

You want a pistol (other than a black powder one)? the requirements are exactly the same than for a semi-auto rifle.

You want a handgun, a bolt action rifle, a semi-auto rifle? It's all possible with the same licence. There is only 1 firearm licence in France, valid for all types of allowed firearms.

You want a full-auto rifle? Not possible at all in France (not anymore), but you can move to Luxembourg or Swizerland.

Overall I think those regulations are well balanced and recognize the fact that bolt action rifles pose little threat to safety, and that all semi-auto should be treated the same (whether handguns or rifles):, allowed, but with more restrictions.

I don't know if it has changed since then, but I lived in Luxembourg it was like firearm heaven. The only limit is that during your first year of licence you could only have a 22LR. After that year, it was open bar, you could have cal 50 machin gun if you wanted. There was a sign in the range that you full auto shooting was prohibited within the range though

[bladeracer]

I agree about the air-guns, but we can't even own Airsoft toys, or most gelblasters or non-firing replica firearms in most states, and even the weakest air-guns are more potent than Airsoft or gelblasters. I think most states allow Paintball guns, but they require licencing.

Until September of 2021 we could still order ammo online, but that all stopped because no company stepped up to take the place of TNT rather than it being illegal to courier ammo. If a courier were willing to comply with the regs it could become standard practice again. TNT did change their requirements towards the end, though I don't know if that was their own policy or Police advice. They decided a farm wasn't a "business address" so I had to collect from the depot in town, then they decided ammo could only be sent to dealers so I had to collect it from my dealer.

Our obsolete firearms laws are similar. We can also own obsolete firearms without licencing in most states, and likewise we can never legally fire them unless we first licence them. We don't include firearms like the Mosins or Mausers though as ammo is still readily available for those.

The purchase of firearms sounds similar to Victoria. We do require a permit to acquire but it is generally approved within hours or a few days. Likewise, sales need to go through a dealer's register before being passed onto our licence.

Until last year, in Vic we could still keep our CatA/B firearms in a locked wooden cabinet. But our secure storage laws are hardly onerous as they require only the lowest standard of security. As firearms can be expensive it's probably sensible to keep them locked up anyway, but I do think we take it too far. Our secure storage laws do make it difficult to have a rifle with me whenever I'm out and about on the farm as I did when I was a kid. Can be bloody annoying when I see foxes most days but can't do anything about them because my rifles are locked away.

It is possible to own semi-auto rimfire rifles with valid cause, basically for control of pests on farms. We can also own centrefire semi-auto rifles, but it is heavily restricted in that you must be using them to earn your living as a pest controller, or you require them for theatre production.

Does France allow usage of handguns generally, like for hunting or for practicing on private property, or are they limited to club activities like here? Can they be owned for defence purposes? Can they be carried in public?

Is there any restriction on how much or what types of ammo you can own there?

In France, can you lay out in a farmer's paddock for half a day shooting at paper and steel like we do in Victoria?

Are children allowed to be taught shooting in France? Here a child under twelve (eleven in Qld) is generally not allowed to handle firearms at all, not even at approved ranges. And even a Junior licence only allows children (12-18 years old) to have access to firearms under immediate supervision. And our definition of "firearm" includes even non-firing replicas and toys that look realistic.

Unless you're in WA I don't think our laws are significantly different to what you've stated, at least not in practical terms.

Hi guys

So yes I am French (nobody is perfect), permanent resident in Australia.

And I was thinking: there are a gazilion things that are better in Australia than in France (of course) but as far as our favorite hobby is concerned, I must admit that French 'new' gun laws (since 2013) make a lot more sense than here!

You want an air/gas pistol or an air rifle of less than 15 joules? You just need to be over 18, you don't need a licence. I was quite shocked here in OZ to learn that the process to acquire a single shot air pistol is the same as for a Glock, lol WTF.

You want to buy live ammo or primers from a shop 500 km away from your home, and have it delivered at your door like the last amazon package of your wife? No problem, no surcharge, will be shipped by the same couriers.

You want a rifle designed before 1900? No problem, you just need to be over 18, you don't need licence, UNLESS, the rifle you want is on the list of pre-1900 rifles that require a licence. The Mauser 98 and the Mosin 1891 are on the list. The Swedish Mauser (or any Mauser pre the 98 Mauser) is not on the list, the Carcano 1891 is not on the list, the Steyr 95, the Schmidt Rubin 1896/11 etc... So there are a bunch of rifles that you can get without a licence! In the recent years the interpretation of the law has become so laxist that now you can even get e.g. a Husqvarna M38 produced in 1942 without a licence, which in my view is going a bit too far.

Noting that without a licence you can't buy live ammo though, nor primers or powder. So you need a licence to shoot them somehow. But at least those vintage guns can be purchase instantly with no paper and no traces on any register.

You want that Tikka T3 CTR that has just come up online? no problem it will be delivered to you within 48 hours. No PTA in France, the transaction just need to go via a professional (on the seller or buyer's end) which will register the change of ownership in the national register.

You have just a couple of bolt action rifles and you don't want to buy a safe? No problem, for a bolt action rifle, they can sleep in your wardrobe, the only obligation is that the bolt must be held separately. Only ammo needs to be locked.

You want a semi-auto rifle? It's absolutely possible, if that rifle was not designed to shoot full auto (i.e. can't be made to) - the requirements are just harder: you need prior approval (like the PTA here), it needs to sleep in a safe, you can't have more than 15 in most cases (and not more than 6 in your first 5 years of having a licence). But you don't need a genuine reason (unless you want more than 15). Note that 15 is a limit for all semi-auto weapons combined (rifles and handguns).

You want a pistol (other than a black powder one)? the requirements are exactly the same than for a semi-auto rifle.

You want a handgun, a bolt action rifle, a semi-auto rifle? It's all possible with the same licence. There is only 1 firearm licence in France, valid for all types of allowed firearms.

You want a full-auto rifle? Not possible at all in France (not anymore), but you can move to Luxembourg or Swizerland.

Overall I think those regulations are well balanced and recognize the fact that bolt action rifles pose little threat to safety, and that all semi-auto should be treated the same (whether handguns or rifles):, allowed, but with more restrictions.

I don't know if it has changed since then, but I lived in Luxembourg it was like firearm heaven. The only limit is that during your first year of licence you could only have a 22LR. After that year, it was open bar, you could have cal 50 machin gun if you wanted. There was a sign in the range that you full auto shooting was prohibited within the range though

[alexjones]

You lost me with your "Overall I think those regulations are well balanced" statement. If the police can own it which are paid for with our tax dollars then the citizen should be able to own it. That is what I would call 'well balanced'.

[ederlezi]

Hey Vinc,

Looks like your view is a bit one-sided here.

Did you forget the maximum limit of 15 Cat B firearms (All semi-automatics, including handguns for our Aussie friends) you can own at any time? Think about our world-class collectors like lu1900 and many others. A maximum of 15 P08s they can collect and use at any time in their life? Any collection, actually. In Australia, you can have as many as you want (potentially changing in WA though). I know collectors with massive collections, all in working order. It would ruin their lifetime work and passion if it were to change.

Also, the collector status is amazing in Australia. Join a club, wait a year, attend once a year, and collect as many handguns and rifles as you may want to. Not something you can do with the collector card in France. Personally, these two combined allow me to have a happy shooter/collector life.

What about the legislation constantly evolving, eating away little by little the rights that were given? The USM1 moving to Cat B? The SVT-40? Because it LOOKS like a similar firearm that was shooting in full auto? (Because of the USM2 and the AVT-40).

The deactivated firearms that are now classified in Cat C when you could freely purchase them before for more than 50 years?

The fact that you can now only buy and use ammunition that has been manufactured pre-1900 when using an antique firearm?

What about the limited number of rounds you can buy per year per caliber in France? What about the fact that you can buy any Cat B caliber as long as you have your license?

What about having to deal with your “Prefecture” to apply for an authorization or free one up?

You can also have antique firearms without a license required in Australia. (However, as long as the caliber is not commercially available). So bye-bye 7.5 Swiss, 8*57, 6.5, 303.

As a pistol and rifle shooter collector, I prefer Australian laws. I can live without .45 ACP; however, and to be fair, I have to say, I miss being able to shoot semi-autos like the M1 Garand, USM1, Thompson with the new semi-auto only lower, G43, SVT. But I also appreciate why it is as it is in Australia.

I wish there could be a middle ground where they are either permanently converted to single shot only and manually operated (Welding the gas port) or converted to 2+1 only.

I am pulling your leg a bit here, but if we are comparing, we need to compare objectively.

Ederlezi, same as tircollection,

Hope you are well,

Ben

[alexjones]

Hey Vinc,



Also, the collector status is amazing in Australia. Join a club, wait a year, attend once a year, and collect as many handguns and rifles as you may want to. Not something you can do with the collector card in France. Personally, these two combined allow me to have a happy shooter/collector life.

That must be a NSW thing because in QLD you do not have to go to a club meeting or wait a year as a collector licence requirement. You just apply for the licence and if you want post 1947 handguns(CH5 condition code) the club gives you a letter each time you submit a PTA saying the firearm is collectable and adds to your theme.