Rememberance day

[mickb]

I was having a think about the old rememberance day as a former soldier and it struck how hit and miss the public opinion of soldiers can be. One decade they are the best thing since sliced bread, the next evil baby killers. Its really the flip of a coin. Generally the Australian military has performed the same way for the last 125 years, so these opinions are purely public/media created. Just rehashing the opinions of the major conflicts once soldiers came bacl

Boer war- The what?

WW1- soldiers highly regarded

WW2- same as WW1

Korean war- see boer war above.

Vietnam- well we all know the reception they got there

East Timor- not seen as real soldiers, got medals for basically doing nothing. Got told this by quite a few civilian friends and even an actual Vietnam vet once Anzac day, hence why I stopped doing anzac days the last 20 years

Iraq and Afghanistan early days- Soldiers back to Hero status again for the first time in 60 years, real thanks for your service stuff, here let me give you my plane seat and marry my daughter type thing

Iraq and Afghanistan later days- Heros but ....Heros with mental illness, the public now believes all soldiers are PTSD sufferers when its only about 15% but try to convince someone/lady friend/employer you arent part of the 15% , fkn good luck with that.

Im not bitter, its more of a laugh. i will say it makes me uncomfortable the fashion of people thinking soldiers for their service. One thing is that was an American borne saying and its a little claptrappy and queazy to hear aussies say it, but I thank them back. One thing I do always say is "Remember you said that, in 10 years you might be throwing rocks at soldiers"

[Wapiti]

Mate, when someone thanks you for your service, please remember that if they do they really mean it.
Whether it's because it's heard more lately, whatever the reason, anyone in my circle who says it means it, and respects you on the highest level.

[Bugman]

Mate, when someone thanks you for your service, please remember that if they do they really mean it.
Whether it's because it's heard more lately, whatever the reason, anyone in my circle who says it means it, and respects you on the highest level.

Agreed.

[alexjones]

Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2 every person who went overseas to fight at the behest of the Australian government was a volunteer who was financially reimbursed for their time. New Guinea was an Australian territory at the time so did not count as fighting overseas which is why the army reserve conscripts(CMF) were allowed to deploy there.


I don't hold any contempt to public servants at the individual level. Apart from WW2 were the country was threatened nobody in my opinion has fought to save the country. Fighting for 20 years in Afghanistan only to give the country back to the Taliban makes no sense to me and does not protect Australia in anyway.

Maybe the argument could be made that it protects Australia 3 dimensionally by showing America our commitment to our alliance so in turn they will defend us if need be. However I am not fully convinced.

[mickb]

I think you almost completely missed the point of my post, however used it admirably as a platform for some pet research and personal soapboxing. Im giving your post about 10/10 for thread drift without actually being actual hijack.

[Oldbloke]

I think you almost completely missed the point of my post, however used it admirably as a platform for some pet research and personal soapboxing. Im giving your post about 10/10 for thread drift without actually being actual hijack.

ya gotta laugh.

[mickb]

I dont disagree with any of alexjones points for the record, Well maybe the intimation soldiers when volunteers and remunerated , not conscripts, somehow makes a difference . Service is service. This is evidenced by the fact service can still get you killed anywhere. Also conscripts are paid. Not sure how far back you need to go before you have unpaid military in the British system. Days of sail? Zulu wars?

[mchughcb]

I dont disagree with any of alexjones points for the record, Well maybe the intimation soldiers were volunteers and remunerated , not conscripts, as if it constitues a different level of service. Service is service. This is evidenced by the fact service can still get you killed anywhere. Also conscripts are paid. Not sure how far back you need to go before you have unpaid military in the British system. Days of sail, Zulu wars?

Galley Slaves? Everybody has to get paid in a war.

[alexjones]

I dont disagree with any of alexjones points for the record, Well maybe the intimation soldiers when volunteers and remunerated , not conscripts, somehow makes a difference . Service is service. This is evidenced by the fact service can still get you killed anywhere. Also conscripts are paid. Not sure how far back you need to go before you have unpaid military in the British system. Days of sail? Zulu wars?

Yes conscripts are paid however they are not always willing participants and are threatened with imprisonment if they don't comply.

I was reimbursed when my guns were stolen off me however I also was not a willing participant and was threatened with imprisonment if I didn't comply. Should I be thanked for my service? It's essentially the same argument. Do what we say and we will pay you what we think you are worth. AKA extortion.

A solider who volunteers accepts the contract and the conditions of the contract.

Serving Australia would of meant something meaningful years ago. However in this day and age since they stole our guns, shut down our businesses, called us none essentials and fired us from our jobs if we didn't take a vaccine. That meaning is long gone.

[Tinker]

Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2 every person who went overseas to fight at the behest of the Australian government was a volunteer who was financially reimbursed for their time. New Guinea was an Australian territory at the time so did not count as fighting overseas which is why the army reserve conscripts(CMF) were allowed to deploy there.

You don't seem to understand the concept of enlistment. Professional servicemen and servicewomen don't regard themselves as volunteers - they join the services, and are paid in the same way as any employee (with the addition of Service Allowance, to make up for all the goatf#cks of service life)
You may also wish to further research some of your statements:
- the composition of Australia's troops in Vietnam - it was a mix of conscripts and regular forces.
- legislation was passed in 1943 which allowed the CMF to deploy to other areas of the Pacific, like Java and Borneo.
Perhaps on Remembrance Day you could climb down from your soapbox, put politics aside, and pause to remember the Australians killed in the service of their country.

[alexjones]

Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2 every person who went overseas to fight at the behest of the Australian government was a volunteer who was financially reimbursed for their time. New Guinea was an Australian territory at the time so did not count as fighting overseas which is why the army reserve conscripts(CMF) were allowed to deploy there.

You don't seem to understand the concept of enlistment. Professional servicemen and servicewomen don't regard themselves as volunteers - they join the services, and are paid in the same way as any employee (with the addition of Service Allowance, to make up for all the goatf#cks of service life)
You may also wish to further research some of your statements:
- the composition of Australia's troops in Vietnam - it was a mix of conscripts and regular forces.
- legislation was passed in 1943 which allowed the CMF to deploy to other areas of the Pacific, like Java and Borneo.
Perhaps on Remembrance Day you could climb down from your soapbox, put politics aside, and pause to remember the Australians killed in the service of their country.

Regardless of what term they may like to define themselves as anyway you put it they are public servants who voluntarily join their job and are either accepted or rejected if they meet the requirements just like any other job. They accept the terms of the employment contract and are paid for their time.

Yes I know about conscription in Vietnam and the south pacific which is why my comment literally starts with “Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2”. Do some research on that one brigade if you like.

This thread was not started on remembrance day and the original post was talking about peoples thoughts on it.

[Tinker]

Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2 every person who went overseas to fight at the behest of the Australian government was a volunteer who was financially reimbursed for their time. New Guinea was an Australian territory at the time so did not count as fighting overseas which is why the army reserve conscripts(CMF) were allowed to deploy there.

You don't seem to understand the concept of enlistment. Professional servicemen and servicewomen don't regard themselves as volunteers - they join the services, and are paid in the same way as any employee (with the addition of Service Allowance, to make up for all the goatf#cks of service life)
You may also wish to further research some of your statements:
- the composition of Australia's troops in Vietnam - it was a mix of conscripts and regular forces.
- legislation was passed in 1943 which allowed the CMF to deploy to other areas of the Pacific, like Java and Borneo.
Perhaps on Remembrance Day you could climb down from your soapbox, put politics aside, and pause to remember the Australians killed in the service of their country.

Regardless of what term they may like to define themselves as anyway you put it they are public servants who voluntarily join their job and are either accepted or rejected if they meet the requirements just like any other job. They accept the terms of the employment contract and are paid for their time.

Yes I know about conscription in Vietnam and the south pacific which is why my comment literally starts with “Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2”. Do some research on that one brigade if you like.

This thread was not started on remembrance day and the original post was talking about peoples thoughts on it.

Mate, you're going round in circles.
First, soldiers were financially-reimbursed volunteers. Now they're public servants on employment contracts???
You're rapidly losing credibility, quit while you're ahead. Feel free to have the last word though.

[alexjones]

Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2 every person who went overseas to fight at the behest of the Australian government was a volunteer who was financially reimbursed for their time. New Guinea was an Australian territory at the time so did not count as fighting overseas which is why the army reserve conscripts(CMF) were allowed to deploy there.

You don't seem to understand the concept of enlistment. Professional servicemen and servicewomen don't regard themselves as volunteers - they join the services, and are paid in the same way as any employee (with the addition of Service Allowance, to make up for all the goatf#cks of service life)
You may also wish to further research some of your statements:
- the composition of Australia's troops in Vietnam - it was a mix of conscripts and regular forces.
- legislation was passed in 1943 which allowed the CMF to deploy to other areas of the Pacific, like Java and Borneo.
Perhaps on Remembrance Day you could climb down from your soapbox, put politics aside, and pause to remember the Australians killed in the service of their country.

Regardless of what term they may like to define themselves as anyway you put it they are public servants who voluntarily join their job and are either accepted or rejected if they meet the requirements just like any other job. They accept the terms of the employment contract and are paid for their time.

Yes I know about conscription in Vietnam and the south pacific which is why my comment literally starts with “Excluding Vietnam and one brigade during WW2”. Do some research on that one brigade if you like.

This thread was not started on remembrance day and the original post was talking about peoples thoughts on it.

Mate, you're going round in circles.
First, soldiers were financially-reimbursed volunteers. Now they're public servants on employment contracts???
You're rapidly losing credibility, quit while you're ahead. Feel free to have the last word though.

Not to sound rude but how is your comprehension skills? The thread was about peoples thoughts on thanking soldiers and I mentioned they were financially reimbursed volunteers. Which asserts they are thanked for their time in terms of the tax payer reimbursing them.

A public servant is anyone who works for the government. Not really a hard concept to grasp.

Unless conscripted anyone who works a job does so voluntary(AKA a volunteer) and is financially reimbursed for it. Not really a hard concept to grasp.

I am not sure on your employment history(if any) but when people have a job(any job) they sign a contract with their employer and are financially reimbursed based on the terms of that contract.

So if you are in the army you voluntary sign a contract of employment with your employer the government which makes you a public servant. Not really a hard concept to grasp.

[mickb]

I dont disagree with any of alexjones points for the record, Well maybe the intimation soldiers when volunteers and remunerated , not conscripts, somehow makes a difference . Service is service. This is evidenced by the fact service can still get you killed anywhere. Also conscripts are paid. Not sure how far back you need to go before you have unpaid military in the British system. Days of sail? Zulu wars?

Yes conscripts are paid however they are not always willing participants and are threatened with imprisonment if they don't comply.

.

who disagreed with that anywhere in the comments? To be honest your statement is such common knowledge you sound like you are 15 or something to be stating it in the first place....

My point was regardless of whether you enlist willingly or are drafted, you get paid. And whether. you serve the country resisting an invasion or joining one, its still service.

And regards the above post chastising people for not grasping the concept of the thread, you are the one who started going across a range of subject matter not related to it. Gun buybacks, vaccines, which brigades were conscripts etc.

maybe try some of your own advice mate.