Should Australia Go It Alone

[mchughcb]

Well now that Biden has been moved on, Trump has said no more ammo or money and called Zelensky a dictator. He's team is now making amends in Saudi Arabia with Russia and talking about removing all sanctions going back to Obama.

Is Australia going to follow the USA and walk away or will it follow the EU and continue to support a conflict that Ukraine is still winning according to the mainstream media, Zelensky and most European countries and Canada.

[on_one_wheel]

What's the woke thing to do ?
Well probably do that (the woke thing) until we see Dutton calling the shots.

[Wapiti]

OK, I'll take the bait.
The answer is YES.

I mean, sucking up the worlds @rse, handing over our wealth to "elite" overseas interests in the hope of personal immortality is working really well, ain't it?

[mchughcb]

What's the woke thing to do ?
Well probably do that (the woke thing) until we see Dutton calling the shots.

The current woke thing to do is to take all the woke initiative's and quietly put them in the dumpsters.

[on_one_wheel]

.....all while trying to pretend they don't realise they've been sucked in to believing unicorn farts and perpetual motion could power our country by tye-dye wearing, basket weaving, soy late sipping, inner city hippies.

It reminds me of when Peter Brock was passed the peace pipe and sucked into believing crystals could make his cars more reliable.

[mchughcb]

Yeah, that was weird. Polariser or whatever the magical energy was called.

[Oldbloke]

The root cause of our problems is we really only have the LNP or ALP to vote for. (Greens are totally stupid so not included)

What we need is a 3rd party that actually GAF about the country and its citizens.

Oops, I think Mrs Oldbloke has drugged me again.

As far as Ukraine goes I think we should continue to suport them. (Even more) Media has for sometime now (abt a year I guess) reported they are struggling. But to suddenly suck up to putin (the aggressor) like that POS Trump is doing would be immoral.
Our WWI diggers would roll in their graves.

If putin gets his way (and I think Trump will give it to him (because he is a slimmey POS) putin will just continue to attack other countries.

We are currently repeating what happened prior to WWII. Where they tried to appease Hitler. Huge mistake.

Imagine this:

Putin attacks Poland.
Following day Xi attacks AU & Taiwan.
Following day Nth Korea attacks Sth Korea.
(Remember, they all mates)

Buy some Vaseline now, before the price goes up.

And don't be surprised if Trump tries for a 3rd presidency, there are work around the constitution.

[Wapiti]

The root cause of our problems is we really only have the LNP or ALP to vote for. (Greens are totally stupid so not included)

What we need is a 3rd party that actually GAF about the country and its citizens.
Yeah, but everybody ignores the alternatives, them bitches about the sh*thole they create by being too frightened to try alternatives
Oops, I think Mrs Oldbloke has drugged me again.

As far as Ukraine goes I think we should continue to suport them. (Even more) Media has for sometime now (abt a year I guess) reported they are struggling. But to suddenly suck up to putin (the aggressor) like that POS Trump is doing would be immoral.
Our WWI diggers would roll in their graves.
If putin gets his way (and I think Trump will give it to him (because he is a slimmey POS) putin will just continue to attack other countries.
We are currently repeating what happened prior to WWII. Where they tried to appease Hitler. Huge mistake.
Imagine this:
Putin attacks Poland.
Following day Xi attacks AU & Taiwan.
Following day Nth Korea attacks Sth Korea.
(Remember, they all mates)
Buy some Vaseline now, before the price goes up.
And don't be surprised if Trump tries for a 3rd presidency, there are work around the constitution.

Absolute dreaming.
Here we go again, Trump the evil man daring to put forward solutions, whilst his detractors offer nothing.
Don't everyone forget, America threw out the sick, pathetic Biden/Clinton/Obama swamp that kept giving that creepy dictator Zalensky billions of dollars whilst shoveling more into their own personal fortunes, all the while Americans are living in 10's of 1000's of tents along the sidewalks. Americans know what they want, the problems they have, and the bullsh*t the media feeds people to hide the swamp creatures.
They got you fooled bud.
If Zalensky gets whacked, I won't be crying. In fact, this tiny creep is reesponsible for 100,000's of terrible deaths fon the fertile farmlands of Ukraine.
I suggest you do some research about the politics and the actions of Nato, Putin, and the bastardry of the Biden family desperate to find a puppet to start a war and make trhemselves richer. But why do that. eh?

[Oldbloke]

Ummm, IIRC Russia attacked Ukraine.

Many conveniently forgot that.

[wanneroo]

The big mistake people are making is taking what people say publicly at face value.

Trump turned on Zelensky deliberately after they ignored the raw material and mineral deal, so ignore the rhetoric, it's all part of negotiating a deal and Trump will use whatever leverage he has to get the Ukrainians to agree to a deal, which in the end is to their benefit as it opens up investment and creates industries which will be to their use over the next 100 years and beyond. Already the Ukrainians are bending and looking to make a deal.

The Ukrainians have been pretty ungrateful for the fact the USA has propped their country up doing everything from paying old people's pensions to providing arms and cash. Over $200 Billion has been given and a lot of it has gone to corruption.

In the Post WW2 era many western countries were welfare recipients from the USA, Australia included. These western countries were able to indulge themselves in bloated welfare spending while keeping their defense spending low and letting the USA carry the burden of global defense. NATO for instance, despite Europe being more populated than the USA, was basically kept afloat for decades by the USA and our spending and commitment of men and material.

Lots of europeans are angry at Trump because now they can't have lavish welfare states and rampant illegal immigration, they actually have to pony up in their budgets for a military and the equipment for it.

If one looks at what Trump wants it is not unreasonable. We are happy to provide defense commitments and other concessions but you have to do your part too and I think with some countries like Australia and Japan we have a great relationship. Others like Canada, Germany, the UK, Ukraine, they've been riding the gravy train and now they have to pay their share.

Trump has done the same with tariffs, the USA is going to charge what other countries charge us. For a long time on world trade we've let others abuse us, they charge us huge tariffs or ban US companies and goods completely while expecting us to take all their stuff for free. Canada is a great example, they tariff the hell out of all sorts of our products at 200% or 300% or ban US companies like banks from the country completely but right now they are whining like they are some big victim while every day going past where I live is a steady stream of trucks rolling out of Canada to bring their stuff here.

The Post WW2 era of free rides is over. Lots of people are going to be butt hurt and have a big harrump over it but it's like with Ukraine, we gave you $200 Billion, we would like some concessions in return so you help us. Not a lot to ask for folks.

[wanneroo]

Yeah, that was weird. Polariser or whatever the magical energy was called.

Yes the Brock Polarizer debacle, that is a whole story in itself.

In regards to Russia and Saudi Arabia, again a big freak out in the media, but I watched Marco Rubio's 45 minute interview with Catherine Herridge that was posted on X/Twitter.

He said that for 3.5 years there has been almost no communication with Russia diplomatically. He mentioned during the darkest times of the Cold War, there was always direct lines of communications with the Soviets at all times.

He said all the meeting was about with the Russians in Saudi was twofold. Opening back up embassies and direct lines of communication between the governments and second was getting the Russians to decide whether they were serious about ending the war or not. That's it. There was nothing discussed about what the end of the war would look like or who would do what.

He also mentioned that he didn't like Putin or many of the things he has done but also he is the President of Russia and in order to negotiate an end to the war you have to talk to people.

So in the end all the drama and hysteria in the media about Trump folding to Putin is poppycock.

Remember in the early stages of this conflict if the USA and Russia were more engaged there likely could have been a resolution to Ukraine's satisfaction. Putin was willing to return to his original launch point but that buffoon Boris Johnson convinced Zelensky "to fight on" and well here we are today. If we didn't have Joe Biden asleep but a more aggressive diplomatic involvement we could have pushed Zelensky to take that deal.

[Wapiti]

Ummm, IIRC Russia attacked Ukraine.

Many conveniently forgot that.

Yeah, but explain to us all why? Why did Putin move into Ukraine, and do you even understand the history/reason behind it, and what actually caused it?
All this is conveniently brushed aside, probably not even understood.

Looking at some of the excellent posts after yours, it is apparent that there are some members here that know what's going on.

Even the oft-dribbled excuses by this activist government that their policies destroying this country and it's awesome people are blamed on this smokescreen, and the gullible lemmings just keep believing it.

I just don't get why you are obsessed with this, and even hijack a worthwhile discussion about a completely different subject?
What has this to do with the original OP question?

[Larry]

Trump is a Putin and other Dictator patsy pussy lapdog. There is no way any normal person with 6th grade reading skills could interpret the constitution to allow third terns. No matter how much Trump sprooks about it. But my feeling is he wont last that long the US people will as they come under his fire will wake up and see his bulls**t for what it is, and be disgusted with themselves.

This is a time when Australia should use the time to step up and get back to basics and manufacturer on shore all but the plastic trinket toys. Export value added products not just earth from the ground then fill with with other peoples junk.

[alexjones]

The constitution allows for amendments, IE so it does allow Trump to be a 3rd time president. Granted that is easier said than done.

[alexjones]

The root cause of our problems is we really only have the LNP or ALP to vote for. (Greens are totally stupid so not included)

What we need is a 3rd party that actually GAF about the country and its citizens.

Oops, I think Mrs Oldbloke has drugged me again.

As far as Ukraine goes I think we should continue to suport them. (Even more) Media has for sometime now (abt a year I guess) reported they are struggling. But to suddenly suck up to putin (the aggressor) like that POS Trump is doing would be immoral.
Our WWI diggers would roll in their graves.

If putin gets his way (and I think Trump will give it to him (because he is a slimmey POS) putin will just continue to attack other countries.

We are currently repeating what happened prior to WWII. Where they tried to appease Hitler. Huge mistake.

Imagine this:

Putin attacks Poland.
Following day Xi attacks AU & Taiwan.
Following day Nth Korea attacks Sth Korea.
(Remember, they all mates)

Buy some Vaseline now, before the price goes up.

And don't be surprised if Trump tries for a 3rd presidency, there are work around the constitution.

Feel free to send your sons, your grandsons and your money over to support them.

I just don't like the idea of being involved in other peoples wars.

[mchughcb]

Well I haven't heard much in the press from Albo or Dutton about the USA policy backflip in Ukraine. We were gearing up to send more artillery shells but is the USA is stopping all aid and supposedly cutting off starling at the front for the military I can hardly see the point. In fact just the opposite, you will piss off USA and Russia and continuing to supply arms is what neither of them wants.

Still we will will be in the good books with Starmer, the most unpopular UK prime minister.

[mchughcb]

The root cause of our problems is we really only have the LNP or ALP to vote for. (Greens are totally stupid so not included)

What we need is a 3rd party that actually GAF about the country and its citizens.
Yeah, but everybody ignores the alternatives, them bitches about the sh*thole they create by being too frightened to try alternatives
Oops, I think Mrs Oldbloke has drugged me again.

As far as Ukraine goes I think we should continue to suport them. (Even more) Media has for sometime now (abt a year I guess) reported they are struggling. But to suddenly suck up to putin (the aggressor) like that POS Trump is doing would be immoral.
Our WWI diggers would roll in their graves.
If putin gets his way (and I think Trump will give it to him (because he is a slimmey POS) putin will just continue to attack other countries.
We are currently repeating what happened prior to WWII. Where they tried to appease Hitler. Huge mistake.
Imagine this:
Putin attacks Poland.
Following day Xi attacks AU & Taiwan.
Following day Nth Korea attacks Sth Korea.
(Remember, they all mates)
Buy some Vaseline now, before the price goes up.
And don't be surprised if Trump tries for a 3rd presidency, there are work around the constitution.

Absolute dreaming.
Here we go again, Trump the evil man daring to put forward solutions, whilst his detractors offer nothing.
Don't everyone forget, America threw out the sick, pathetic Biden/Clinton/Obama swamp that kept giving that creepy dictator Zalensky billions of dollars whilst shoveling more into their own personal fortunes, all the while Americans are living in 10's of 1000's of tents along the sidewalks. Americans know what they want, the problems they have, and the bullsh*t the media feeds people to hide the swamp creatures.
They got you fooled bud.
If Zalensky gets whacked, I won't be crying. In fact, this tiny creep is reesponsible for 100,000's of terrible deaths fon the fertile farmlands of Ukraine.
I suggest you do some research about the politics and the actions of Nato, Putin, and the bastardry of the Biden family desperate to find a puppet to start a war and make trhemselves richer. But why do that. eh?

We have also spent Billions while people sleep in tents. I would have thought the money was better spent here. Ukraine can't afford our military support so who's paying for sending that stuff into a black hole?

[Tinker]

Going back to the OP's question of should Australia go it alone.
In terms of independence and maintaining sovereign capabilities - absolutely we should. The Whyalla steel mill debacle shows just how tenuous our sovereign capabilities are. Despite our natural resources, we can't refine our own petroleum, make our own clothes or medicines, and barely make our own steel. We are vulnerable to economic sanctions from overseas, even now from "friendly" markets like the USA. Last week the Chinese navy showed how easy it would be to interdict our shipping trade routes.
Should we "go it alone" by pulling out of foreign aid to less well-off countries, including Ukraine? I suppose that depends on your morals and your belief system. With Trump's election it seems that the act of helping others is now described as "woke" (whatever that actually means). I'd describe it as giving a "fair go" to folks who are doing it tough, or who are worse off than we are. I don't think our ancestors who went to war against Hitler and Tojo would regard themselves as "woke".
People sometimes forget that the country to our north has a population of over 280 million and an army of over 300,000 (compared to our ~ 57,000). Relations are good at the moment, but may not always be so. Pulling out of the international community by "going it alone", noting that the USA probably won't come to our rescue unless we agree to give away all our natural resources to them in return, would seem risky and stupid.

[alexjones]

I would like to see an Australian version of DOGE created that will go into every single government and public servant agency and audit where the money is going.

[Larry]

I would change the topic back to the original Title and would agree with that statement. We were a very socialist country and yet still very wealthy. All Utilities were State owned and we had experts running them. I was employed as a Trainee where you where paid to go to school for two year as long as you committed to work for them for two years. That Training and experience was invaluable to this country. Telstra was building satellites and had tech way ahead of the game,ADI had developed state of the art weapons and the SEC had a well maintained Electrical system. Gold plated in TAS That was 50 years ago we invested in the people and the infrastructure and could do in all on our own. Now greed has taken over and all the utilities have been privatized and they no longer train youth to become valuable employees.
It might be a Trump slogan but the answer is not what trump or Elon sprouts.

[mchughcb]

Well unfortunately this issue is that people want stuff that's cheap and secure. Choose one.

[Wapiti]

Once and for all, those obsessed with the Ukraine situation should educate themselves a little.
Maybe then go back to the roundabout thread on this that already exists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9x5E0ETyv8&t=52s

Edit: there's numerous info vids on this subject and all of them put forward history as it has occurred, not conspiracy theories of leftist-media misinformation targeted at our most gullible.

[alexjones]

Multi culturalism does not work. It is the bed rock of what is destroying western civilisation because all cultures are not equal and can not coexist. Society needs an over arching mono culture to bind everyone together. When you import inferior cultures into the first world and allow them to vote they will eventually change society into their inferior way of life.

Multi ethnic society is the not the same thing as multi culturalism. A multi ethnic society can coexist so long as they have a unifying mono culture bonding them together.

[Tinker]

Multi culturalism does not work. It is the bed rock of what is destroying western civilisation because all cultures are not equal and can not coexist. Society needs an over arching mono culture to bind everyone together. When you import inferior cultures into the first world and allow them to vote they will eventually change society into their inferior way of life.

Multi ethnic society is the not the same thing as multi culturalism. A multi ethnic society can coexist so long as they have a unifying mono culture bonding them together.

What on earth does that have to do with this thread?

[mchughcb]

Once and for all, those obsessed with the Ukraine situation should educate themselves a little.
Maybe then go back to the roundabout thread on this that already exists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9x5E0ETyv8&t=52s

Edit: there's numerous info vids on this subject and all of them put forward history as it has occurred, not conspiracy theories of leftist-media misinformation targeted at our most gullible.

Ah, yes well since Covid, every expert that went counter to government opinion or self appointed mainstream media opinion was quickly determined to be delusional and a conspiracy nut, including Trump who said he's seen the intel and it most likely was a lab leak only to be debunked by the retard on the ABC Dr Swan.

I've seen General Petreus on Linkedin talking absolute shiite that Professor Sachs could have debunked in 30 seconds but Prof Sachs gets dumped down the memory hole, like the rest of them calling it more than a decade ago, more than 3 years ago while ole Senile Corn Pop was sleep walking the country into WW3 and all the retarded countries following him, like Australia.

[Billo]

Well now that Biden has been moved on, Trump has said no more ammo or money and called Zelensky a dictator. He's team is now making amends in Saudi Arabia with Russia and talking about removing all sanctions going back to Obama.

Is Australia going to follow the USA and walk away or will it follow the EU and continue to support a conflict that Ukraine is still winning according to the mainstream media, Zelensky and most European countries and Canada.

None of us are surprised how quickly Trump opened up the front door of the White house to Putin, its been rumoured for years that Putin has video tapes of Trump and certain Ladies of night performing thing best done in a bathroom, obviously during the first term Trump had little to offer Putin but its now a different ball game and Trump is most definitely the sub in the current scenario. Its sure is entertaining Chuck

[mchughcb]

Russian hookers doing pee pee on the president on film. Somehow I just don't believe it.

[mchughcb]

There could have been another 4 years of this.

https://youtu.be/lNcmsvGDCFI

[6mm Remington]

Russian hookers doing pee pee on the president on film. Somehow I just don't believe it.

Unless you witnessed this it is nothing but a rumour.

We have all witnessed the senseless loss of lives and waste of money that this conflict has claimed.
THANKS Albo, you dumb arse. You could have got us all killed.

[mchughcb]

Russian hookers doing pee pee on the president on film. Somehow I just don't believe it.

Unless you witnessed this it is nothing but a rumour.

We have all witnessed the senseless loss of lives and waste of money that this conflict has claimed.
THANKS Albo, you dumb arse. You could have got us all killed.

Agreed. Zelensky is now talking about resigning.