Should Australia Go It Alone

[straightshooter]

Turns out Zelensky has already signed over rights to all of Ukraine's ports on the Black Sea and all the minerals Trump was so eager to get, to the UK.

Where does that info come from?

On the second or third last day of the mentally inadequate's reign in the US, the UK and Ukraine entered into the "One Hundred Year Partnership Agreement".
On taking office DJT (the orange messiah) and his backers realised they had been gazumped hence the abrupt volte-face.
That also explains the antagonistic theatrics in the White House.
Beats me how perfidious albion thinks it will succeed if the US, which represents possibly 60-70% of NATO, decides we're pulling out and proceeds with sidling up to Russia.

[Billo]

Being a friend of the USA is more expensive than being the enemy, atleast Zalenski has worked this out. Our little Aukus Sub lease deal is set to cost us $368 Billion.....

[bigrich]

Let's ignore the fact that China controls most of the rate earth minerals and their supply, it's in America's best interests to secure long term deals in Ukraine. This has nothing to do with taxpayers as they have always been fleeced.

CLearing out old tech munition and replacing with next generation gear is a big win for the US manufacturers.

true

[straightshooter]

What a difference a few days have made.
All the certainties of only a couple of weeks ago appear to be no longer.
I must admit a guilty pleasure in listening to the gibberers on the ABC radio current affairs programmes having their heads explode with their mutual TDS in hyper-drive. As if the orange messiah was the cause rather than a symptom of the (so called) first world's malaise.
If one grasps what is actually happening in the world, as distinct from being told what to think, more than ever Australia needs to take an immediate U turn back into a strict policy self reliance.

[mchughcb]

Well France and the UK are stepping in. They want Australia to send troops. USA said it's on your head.

Some people on this forum have been banging of for years how weak the Russian military is without a clue. Guess we'll find out if Albo commits how well Australia does against a modern day superpower without the US support.

[alexjones]

Australia won't send troops because Albo will lose the election and Dutton prefers America over Europe.

However if I am wrong I hope the people in Australia and on this forum who support involvement in foreign wars send their sons, grandsons, their super payments and savings etc over to support Ukraine. Seeing as they are so passionate about involvement in foreign wars I would appreciate their personal support instead of requesting others to do their bidding.

[mchughcb]

200 bushmasters and 50 MBT tanks we'll never see again.

[straightshooter]

200 bushmasters and 50 MBT tanks we'll never see again.

I get it that the EU + UK are working on project Lebensraum II but it beat's me what Australia gets out of it since we already have ample Lebensraum.
The only thing I can think of is that it pleases our overseas masters.

[mchughcb]

I don't get it either. Plenty of poop holes in Asia and Africa that need saving. I rather stay away.

[bigrich]

australia could provide aid to ukraine , sure . but boots on the ground , no way . let europe look after it's own backyard . we've got bigger problems with china

[bigrich]

I don't get it either. Plenty of poop holes in Asia and Africa that need saving. I rather stay away.

screw that too . about time we started looking after our own instead of some of the bllsh!t foreign aid we send overseas . i've read jacinta price is heading a inquiry into government waste like DOGE is doing in the states . i reckon we have one of the most wasteful, rorting governments in the world . cracking down on
government inefficiency and waste is definitely one of trump's better ideas , and something long overdue in this country . accountability for our politicians and media would be a good start to reforming this country too

[alexjones]

I don't get it either. Plenty of poop holes in Asia and Africa that need saving. I rather stay away.

screw that too . about time we started looking after our own instead of some of the bllsh!t foreign aid we send overseas . i've read jacinta price is heading a inquiry into government waste like DOGE is doing in the states . i reckon we have one of the most wasteful, rorting governments in the world . cracking down on
government inefficiency and waste is definitely one of trump's better ideas , and something long overdue in this country . accountability for our politicians and media would be a good start to reforming this country too

Agree with you mate. An Australian DOGE is needed at the local, state and federal level. So much wastage. Anyone who has worked somewhat in government or on government jobs in the construction industry knows the wastage. If a budget is not used then it is lowered the next year so people spend things for the sake of it.

Australia has very high rates of public servants. We need a lot less public servants and lower taxes so people can invest into the economy which will stimulate more job creation. The government should not be in the business of job creation. Because they simply are not creating jobs but stealing tax payers money to pay for someone's job who is more than likely doing some non productive regulation job that should not exist.

[alexjones]

Any public servant needs to remember they are a burden on the tax payer so they should not feel entitled to a so called "life long career" in the public sector.

I really like how Trump is sacking a lot of public servants as so many are nothing but a burden to society by extracting our financial resources and providing nothing of note in a regulatory role that should not exist. Also, I don't think public servants should be able to vote in elections(excluding some essential roles).

[Larry]

I dont agree with the wholesale sacking of public servants. I do agree with us being self reliant and that requires investment. As I said in another post privatization of gov utilities may save some money in the short term but the future is left hanging in the wind. Investment includes trainee ships and yes there may be times in production times when some people have little hands on work to do. This should be better managed not just lets sack those people as their not busy and buy stuff from overseas. It costs money to have things in reserve for a rainy day quite literally. Yes Australia has made big in roads in this department when it come to natural disaster response but buying and storing essential items when fires and floods wipe out power and roads but we could do more.

[straightshooter]

alexjones & Larry

Public servants?
Paleeeese
They are government employees and some of the time they actually do serve their employer.
Generally if happenstances are such that they may be under instruction to do something in service of the public it will often end up being more like how a bull services a cow.
By the way,
Q. How many people work in the 'public service'?
A. About half of them.

[Tinker]

Any public servant needs to remember they are a burden on the tax payer so they should not feel entitled to a so called "life long career" in the public sector.

So next time you go to a hospital because you've accidentally shot yourself in the foot with your nailgun again, make sure you let the nurses know they are a burden on you the taxpayer. Then, when you get home and find your house on fire, tell the firies they are a burden while they extinguish your blaze. While you're at it, go into some of the flood-affected areas and put up a banner saying all Defence Force members are just a drain on your finances. Would you complain if you spent hours on hold to Centrelink, or would you rejoice that there are no burdensome public servants left?
I, for one, was pleased that the government hired extra public servants to deal with the enormous backlog of DVA claims for veterans.

[alexjones]

Any public servant needs to remember they are a burden on the tax payer so they should not feel entitled to a so called "life long career" in the public sector.

So next time you go to a hospital because you've accidentally shot yourself in the foot with your nailgun again, make sure you let the nurses know they are a burden on you the taxpayer. Then, when you get home and find your house on fire, tell the firies they are a burden while they extinguish your blaze. While you're at it, go into some of the flood-affected areas and put up a banner saying all Defence Force members are just a drain on your finances. Would you complain if you spent hours on hold to Centrelink, or would you rejoice that there are no burdensome public servants left?
I, for one, was pleased that the government hired extra public servants to deal with the enormous backlog of DVA claims for veterans.

Instead of crying and promoting your love of socialism(Centrelink really?) learn to increase your comprehension skills.

These programs you mention are forced upon me without me opting in. So yes it is a burden. I would be more than happy to use private services if required.

See where I wrote "so they should not feel entitled"? I did not say you are not required, I implied you should be hired and fired as required and not entitled to a lifetime of taking tax payers resources.

[alexjones]

alexjones & Larry

Public servants?
Paleeeese
They are government employees and some of the time they actually do serve their employer.
Generally if happenstances are such that they may be under instruction to do something in service of the public it will often end up being more like how a bull services a cow.
By the way,
Q. How many people work in the 'public service'?
A. About half of them.

Just like those people who twist the meaning of the word women you are attempting to do the same with public servant. A public servant is anybody who is paid for by the government IE the public tax payer. They are not paid for by private enterprises.

[Oldbloke]

australia could provide aid to ukraine , sure . but boots on the ground , no way . let europe look after it's own backyard . we've got bigger problems with china

I'm thinking same.

[Bugman]

Yep. Europe should look after this end of the problem. Agree. We can still provide aid.....but it has to be paid for and in reality, we are not a never ending supply chain.

[Oldbloke]

I spotted a report that basically said France and UK should get together and provide nuclear protection to the other EU countries.

I guess they figure US/trump can't be relied upon.

[Wapiti]

Putin's just said that if that if Britain and Europe put "peacekeepers" into Ukraine, he will kill them all and severely punish the countries concerned.
And he will too. And they will get their @rses kicked, and maybe there will be a WW3. Without the US.
Which Australians would support anything like this?
Certainly, the ones who will be too old, unfit or cowardly to join up and participate.

And anyone who doubts Australia couldn't "go it alone" with our skilled workforce and unlimited resources, just come back and admit how wrong you are after seeing trump do this in the US now.

[Oldbloke]

Putin's just said that if that if Britain and Europe put "peacekeepers" into Ukraine, he will kill them all and severely punish the countries concerned.
And he will too. And they will get their @rses kicked, and maybe there will be a WW3. Without the US.
Which Australians would support anything like this?
Certainly, the ones who will be too old, unfit or cowardly to join up and participate.

And anyone who doubts Australia couldn't "go it alone" with our skilled workforce and unlimited resources, just come back and admit how wrong you are after seeing trump do this in the US now.

Mmm, I wouldn't assume Russia will kick arses. 3 years ago it was assumed Ukraine would be the "easy beats".

[bigrich]

Putin's just said that if that if Britain and Europe put "peacekeepers" into Ukraine, he will kill them all and severely punish the countries concerned.
And he will too. And they will get their @rses kicked, and maybe there will be a WW3. Without the US.
Which Australians would support anything like this?
Certainly, the ones who will be too old, unfit or cowardly to join up and participate.

And anyone who doubts Australia couldn't "go it alone" with our skilled workforce and unlimited resources, just come back and admit how wrong you are after seeing trump do this in the US now.

i think with trump's attitude and shift in america's foreign policy we need to ramp up our push for local manufacture and sovereignty very quickly. we used to have that and more, until john Howard's free trade agreement removed tariff's on imported goods and local industry was no longer protected . firearms weren't the only thing john howard screwed australian's over in 1996

the sheet metal company i work for contacted local schools looking for a kid to take on a labouring job with a view to apprenticeship for the right applicant . the only response we got was from a 17 year old girl who's father is a metal worker . that's the calibre of todays youth . the industry is dead at the moment , i haven't worked in weeks , unfortunately she's had to move on for work . the majority of todays youth find the trades too hard, having a "clean" job sitting behind a computer seems to be what most want . when things do recover there aren't going to be enough workers and workshops left to do the work . a few shops have closed permanently . such is the state of my industry . this country's been run into the ground by inept self serving politicians

[mchughcb]

Putin's just said that if that if Britain and Europe put "peacekeepers" into Ukraine, he will kill them all and severely punish the countries concerned.
And he will too. And they will get their @rses kicked, and maybe there will be a WW3. Without the US.
Which Australians would support anything like this?
Certainly, the ones who will be too old, unfit or cowardly to join up and participate.

And anyone who doubts Australia couldn't "go it alone" with our skilled workforce and unlimited resources, just come back and admit how wrong you are after seeing trump do this in the US now.

Mmm, I wouldn't assume Russia will kick arses. 3 years ago it was assumed Ukraine would be the "easy beats".

With half a trillion dollars and all the latest Intel support they still can't push the Russians back.
It a black hole of attrition. Wake up to yourself.

[fussy]

Any public servant needs to remember they are a burden on the tax payer so they should not feel entitled to a so called "life long career" in the public sector.

So next time you go to a hospital because you've accidentally shot yourself in the foot with your nailgun again, make sure you let the nurses know they are a burden on you the taxpayer. Then, when you get home and find your house on fire, tell the firies they are a burden while they extinguish your blaze. While you're at it, go into some of the flood-affected areas and put up a banner saying all Defence Force members are just a drain on your finances. Would you complain if you spent hours on hold to Centrelink, or would you rejoice that there are no burdensome public servants left?
I, for one, was pleased that the government hired extra public servants to deal with the enormous backlog of DVA claims for veterans.

Well, there are some who work, such as the nurses and docs who fix you, and the Ergon workers who restore power during storms.
There are office-lurkers who just want a cushy job and only answer the phone 1000-1600 if you are lucky. (I recall some in a certain sector having a reiki workshop on work time.
As for being on hold to centrelink, it's already a long time, despite the number of employees it has.

[Oldbloke]

Putin's just said that if that if Britain and Europe put "peacekeepers" into Ukraine, he will kill them all and severely punish the countries concerned.
And he will too. And they will get their @rses kicked, and maybe there will be a WW3. Without the US.
Which Australians would support anything like this?
Certainly, the ones who will be too old, unfit or cowardly to join up and participate.

And anyone who doubts Australia couldn't "go it alone" with our skilled workforce and unlimited resources, just come back and admit how wrong you are after seeing trump do this in the US now.

Mmm, I wouldn't assume Russia will kick arses. 3 years ago it was assumed Ukraine would be the "easy beats".

With half a trillion dollars and all the latest Intel support they still can't push the Russians back.
It a black hole of attrition. Wake up to yourself.

My comment was relating to UK & EU peace keepers.

[mchughcb]

Putin's just said that if that if Britain and Europe put "peacekeepers" into Ukraine, he will kill them all and severely punish the countries concerned.
And he will too. And they will get their @rses kicked, and maybe there will be a WW3. Without the US.
Which Australians would support anything like this?
Certainly, the ones who will be too old, unfit or cowardly to join up and participate.

And anyone who doubts Australia couldn't "go it alone" with our skilled workforce and unlimited resources, just come back and admit how wrong you are after seeing trump do this in the US now.

Mmm, I wouldn't assume Russia will kick arses. 3 years ago it was assumed Ukraine would be the "easy beats".

With half a trillion dollars and all the latest Intel support they still can't push the Russians back.
It a black hole of attrition. Wake up to yourself.

My comment was relating to UK & EU peace keepers.

So was mine and foolish countries that step into the meat grinder. Putin was asked wat he thought about Macron sending in french troops and replied how did it work out for Napoleon?

[Wapiti]

Putin's just said that if that if Britain and Europe put "peacekeepers" into Ukraine, he will kill them all and severely punish the countries concerned.
And he will too. And they will get their @rses kicked, and maybe there will be a WW3. Without the US.
Which Australians would support anything like this?
Certainly, the ones who will be too old, unfit or cowardly to join up and participate.

And anyone who doubts Australia couldn't "go it alone" with our skilled workforce and unlimited resources, just come back and admit how wrong you are after seeing trump do this in the US now.

Mmm, I wouldn't assume Russia will kick arses. 3 years ago it was assumed Ukraine would be the "easy beats".

I'm at odds to get why you think Putin is some sort of failure here, respectfully.

Putin hasn't completely overrun Ukraine because of one of two things, or both.
US military equipment and Putin holding back the weapons he has that could turn Ukraine into black glass in a few hours. Or both.
The latter sound silly? Yeah, if you want to use the country you intend to take. But if Europe joins in ( and those with any political sense will know it's all about the lefty Europeans disrespecting Trump because he's sick of this waste of time and lives), then Ukraine will fall overnight.

Putin could have taken Ukraine a long time ago, but with this tit for tat conventional warfare, it will just keep stalling and hoovering up money and resources. Putin will not accept the political suicide of Europe putting boots on the ground. It will mean WW3, or whatever you call it. And the US will be sitting back and watching the end of Europe.

[alexjones]

Putin did F up (this was admitted by the Russians) by only attacking Ukraine with 180k men. They also did not tell the battalion level and below officers until the day before the attack that it was not a training exercise so the men were not mentally or tactically prepared. Also the American satellites and Ukrainian drones could see everything the Russians were doing in real time to make an effective resistance.

Had Russia attacked with 2 or 3 times as many men the war would not of bogged down into trench warfare and would of been a quick Russian victory.