Gun went off........... early!

[jennageit]

Hi Guys,

I went shooting again last night, and scored around 190 again. It was a good night, except for one thing.......

I'd already had about 8 shots (bench 50m) and things started going haywire.
I took my shot, lifted the bolt up and back, and the spent cartridge ejected. All normal.
I put the next bullet in, slid the bolt forward (carefully, as per instructions), and before I had the chance to push the bolt down, it fired.
The rifle was locked in, so the bullet wasn't going to go anywhere but down the range, and it actually hit my target card, but I wasn't happy.
I opened the bolt and signalled for the range master to come over. I explained what happened, and he told me to load the rifle again. He watched the next 9 shots and all was well. Everything happened as it should have (if you exclude the fact that my score went to s**t lol).
He tapped me on the shoulder and said to continue shooting, but stayed close. The next two shots were fine, the last shot it did it again. This time, he was watching it happen, and the bolt was only about half way down when the gun went off. I opened the bolt and he tapped me on the shoulder and told me to move out of the way.
I got up and gave him my seat, and stepped back to watch him.
He sighted the rifle up on my target, reached across for a bullet, loaded the rifle and started sliding the bolt forward. The bolt still had about a mill or two to go before you could lock it down and the gun went off.
He pulled the bolt back, ejected the spent cartridge and caught it to look at.
He said that there was no more shooting with this rifle for tonight, pulled a yellow tag out of his pocket, put it in the breach and proceeded to pack the rifle up to take it inside.
As he was carrying it inside, I started cleaning up my mess. Spent cartridges, ammo box, bean bag etc and set the bench up ready for anyone else who might be shooting.
By the time I got back in the club room, the rifle was no-where to be seen and I didn't get the chance to ask what, why, how etc.

Can anyone explain why this might happen?
I know that the rifle is an Anschutz, and is a 12 something. It's been said that it's around 40 years old, and wasn't being used regularly until I started shooting as almost everyone there has their own target rifle, and the two people that dont have one, prefer to use the other rifle with the heavier trigger.

So, any chance someone could explain why this would be happening? Oh, one more thing, I can guarantee that my finger didn't touch the trigger at all. The way I do things means that the bolt is down, then i put my thumb in the rest, curl my hand around the grip, and last is placing my finger in the trigger guard before sliding it back to make contact with the trigger. I'm particular in how I do this, and I had to go through the process from start to finish myself, just to make sure there wasn't any chance I'd knocked the trigger.

Anyway, thanks in advance guys for any advice you may be able to give.

Jenna

[handofcod]

Sounds like the firing pin is being released during cocking without the trigger disengaging the sear. Either way, not something you'd want to be messing around with and needs to be looked at by a gunsmith pronto.

[jennageit]

All I was told was that the gun wasn't going to be used again tonight, and instead of it being put in the safe (as usual), it went into a case and disappeared.
I've got a coaching session on Saturday afternoon, so I'm going to ask about it then, but I'm trying to understand the how, why and what you can do to prevent it from happening.

Given what's happened, is it faulty or something that I'm doing?

[Apollo]

It is nothing you are doing.

If the rifle has had the trigger adjusted to be light then it will most likely be the "Sear Engagement" is not quite correct. Being a "Range Rifle" I would say it has been packed up for a visit to the Gunsmith or whoever does the work for the range to be adjusted and checked.

The check is usually to slam shut the bolt a number of times fast and hard to see if the sear releases the firing pin. Next is to test impact on the butt end of the stock to also see if the sear releases the firing pin. The sear is between the trigger mechanism and the firing pin in the bolt.

Been there, done that with a trigger a Gunsmith lightened for me and didn't quite get it right. Took me many hours of trial and error to correct the situation but it's now perfect and has been for a year or two. I like light triggers in target rifles, when I say light, I mean around a trigger pull of 1.5 ozs which is really just the contact of the skin on your finger touching the trigger.

Like you my finger does not go anywhere near the trigger until I have the target lined up and I'm ready to shoot. There are ways to control a super light trigger.

.

[handofcod]

^ 1.5oz ?! No THAT'S a light trigger! I'm surprised it doesn't slam fire but I'll defer to your experience.

Jenna - it's all good, you didn't contribute to the rifle firing that way at all. The rifle will need to be fixed by a gunsmith before it returns to active duty at the range.

[yoshie]

When I put a trigger kit in my cz 452 they come with a few different size shims, the biggest one made the trigger feel awesome, but if I closed the bolt too fast it wouldn't catch the firing pin properly and it would 'fire'. So that shim was too big for that rifle, I went with a smaller size ( 2 actually because the next one down went off when the but plate was bumped with a rubber mallet.) When you do any work to a trigger you need to do tests to make sure they are safe. Like a bump test, I'd say it had some work do to it and not tested properly or the sear/trigger has become worn or broken. Club guns cope a lot of use and abuse.

[Chronos]

^ 1.5oz ?! No THAT'S a light trigger! I'm surprised it doesn't slam fire but I'll defer to your experience.

Jenna - it's all good, you didn't contribute to the rifle firing that way at all. The rifle will need to be fixed by a gunsmith before it returns to active duty at the range.

No HOC I've fired the gun of which Apollo speaks and it's quite safe. In fact I disagree with Apollo about the pressure of your skin will set it off, I think he exaggerates but it's definitely light. The important thing is it will not fire until you pull the trigger but when you do you simply line up the target, put your finger to the trigger, breathe make any final adjustments and when you think about pulling the trigger it breaks, you don't actually need to pull. But that's how BR triggers should work. Mines about 3 oz now, was 8ish. My tikka target gun can be adjusted down to. 12oz but occasionally decocks on closing do I've adjusted it up to 14oz.


As for Jennas club rifle. I'd agree it needs to be looked at, most likely wear has reduced the seat engagement and it needs to be readjusted

Chronos

[Gregg]

"Gun went off........... early!"

That's happened to me a couple of times.

[Gregg]

Wait, sorry.

I thought we were talking about something else.

Forget I said anything.

[1290]

"Gun went off........... early!"

That's happened to me a couple of times.

I was thinking along the same lines..... it happens to the best of us, dont despair...
OOOOOh firearms.ya. ok. right. moving along.

[WesleySnipes]

I have an old Anschutz 1450 in brilliant condition, and had not been fired for 20 odd years, first few rounds down range and this occurred. I took it all apart and as others have stated, it was the sear engagement. It was adjusted far too low, so it was barely catching on the underside of the bolt and would often fire as soon as you attempted to rotate the bolt.

Another reminder that the best safety you possess is the common sense in your head, as a mechanical issue as simple as this could have had a terrible outcome.

[Tiiger]

Given what's happened, is it faulty or something that I'm doing?

On a mechanically sound and correctly set up rifle it should be all but impossible for you to do something "wrong" and cause a premature discharge. There isn't a 'trick' to closing or opening a bolt, you should be able to do this quite vigorously, bump the rifle etc. without ever having a premature discharge.

Two most likely possibilities... One is wear and tear like the guys have said, the sear etc. may have worn and needs to be fixed.

The other... Depending on the exact model the rifle probably had an adjustable trigger so you can fine tune trigger; when set up correctly you want no creep and for the trigger to 'break' with basically no movement required.

At the extreme ends of this adjustment you could either have heaps of travel before the sear releases and the rifle fires or you could have not enough engagement so that you can't actually cock the bolt because it won't hold it.

When finding the right spot you can go too far and have the sear just barely keeping the bolt cocked, but a knock or vibration can be enough to release it causing the firearm to fire.

It's standard practice after adjusting a trigger to cock the bolt and work it quickly, roughly, give the rifle a few bumps etc. and try to get it to release. If you can get it to release by knocking it then it needs tightening up. It's possible someone got a little over zealous with adjusting the trigger and/or didn't check it for stability well enough after.

Either or, but not you.

[Redwood]

you should be able to do this quite vigorously, bump the rifle etc. without ever having a premature discharge.

There is a video of - I think it's a Steyr AUG? - where they really put one through the ringer trying to get an accidental firing.

Loaded with blanks of course, they bash it against rocks and through it twirling into the air end over end to drop on the ground and that kind of thing with no bang.

Prolly find on youtube if anyone is interested.

[1290]

That sounds like the Australian Customs firearm safety test

[wrenchman]

My father in law has a mod 70 in 7 mag that did the same thing scared the crap out of us we dry fired it a few time and found if you bumped it it would go off.
The gun smith had to replace trigger shoots like a dreem again

[Baronvonrort]

Some Anshutz owner is probably muttering something about passion fingered newbies....

Not your fault Jenna don't worry about it.

Where are the pics, we like seeing your progress

[jennageit]

Some Anshutz owner is probably muttering something about passion fingered newbies....

Not your fault Jenna don't worry about it.

Where are the pics, we like seeing your progress

Hiya,
I'll post some pic's of today coaching session results when I take them lol
I used the rifle that had "premature expulsion" issues the other night and she was an absolute dream. There were a few things wrong with it that had been replaced and fixed, and I'm happy to say that I trust her again now.
My results from today are:
1st card - 50m bench - 190/200
Then I figured out how to dial the scope in properly.
2nd card - 195.9/200
3rd card - 195/200.
It would have been a slightly higher score on card three, but I haven't yet figured out how to read the wind. A couple of times I did wait for the wind to drop and was pleased with the results. On one shot I was concentrating on position and forgot about the wind, so it was very much a 9 and not a 10. Another half bullet width would have seen it be an 8!

So, now I've got my technique sorted out (mostly), I was told that it is now up to practice and continuing to do what I'm doing. Either way I'm happy. I found 2 of the 7 points I'd lost, and I've learnt yet more about what I was doing wrong.

We'll see what happens on Wednesday night!

Jenna

[Redwood]

That sounds like the Australian Customs firearm safety test

Not something I'll be trying with mine

[Westy]

Gun went off........... early! That happened to me once, it's a little unnerving




My Daughter turns 12 next week!!!!!!

[rigatoni]

That's how a lot of daughters get made I think