Mental Illness In The Shooting Community

[recurveman]

A Letter To Enough Gun Members

Dear Members,

None of you know me, but recently I posted in the Legal forum about the implications of gun ownership and having a treated, stable mental illness. I was diagnosed as being bipolar at 18, and sought help at 29 after nearly a decade of alcohol and drug abuse. Since receiving help, and medication I've been sober now for over a year and enjoyed a fantastic and liberating life now for some time, thanks to the counseling and medication I have been single-minded about adhering to, and most importantly a supportive group of friends - and a stellar single Mum.

After ensuring that my stability is exactly that, stable, I've considered going down the path of getting a firearms permit. I've never been violent in my life, no matter how depressed or anxious I've been. The biggest fear was taking my own life, however that patch is behind me now - and a new chapter of my life has begun. One where I can see myself being able to have kids without messing their childhood up, like my mentally ill father did for me and my sister. One where I can go out to the pub and sink lemon squash without getting hammered and speeding all the way home. One where I wake up in the morning and wonder how I can make the best of the day, and not dream of ways to ending the pain.

After making the post, a few people sent me PMs about their experiences with mental illness, and it got me thinking about a post that one of you made in reference to the implications that seeking help may have on your ability to be able to own a permit. I think you'd be surprised about how many of your mates are struggling. Men are professionals regarding stoicism and silence through emotional suffering, and while mental illness is indiscriminate and can effect anyone at any time in their life, it's important to note that ADF personnel, past and present, are at a heightened risk of PTSD, depression, anxiety, suicidal tendencies and mood disorders - among other difficult conditions. They're also more likely to be gun owners.

This is a plea to all members of the shooting community to realise what I've quickly come to learn on this forum. People are there for you, and your mates are there for you - and if they're not, they might not be the mates you thought there were. There are also completely anonymous ways to engage with organisations such as Beyond Blue, and you can even rely on your psychiatrist or councilor to keep their mouths shut provided you're not in the immediate danger of killing someone, or killing yourself. They are bound by law to report that, however, to be honest - that's for the best. Who wants a gun permit with them in the grave when you could have just temporarily lost your guns while you were ill.

I know what it's like to not want to admit that you might be suffering from a mental illness. I self-medicated with the drink and drugs for a decade before I realised what was going on. Who wants to admit they might be suffering when you can just adopt the traditional Australian male way of saving face, rather than facing your problems - which can be really, really hard. While I'm not a Doctor, I do have a great wealth of personal experience with a lot of different states of mind and if you notice any of the following, don't hesitate to bring it up with a mate over a beer, or even talking to someone from Beyond Blue or Helpline if you value your privacy in these matters. Don't forget that while there are lots of people who do understand mental illness, there are even more who don't. When something is wrong with you, you might not even know it if you haven't heard that other people feel the same way. But I'm telling you, lots of men do - and the failure to realise that you're not alone may be fatal for you, and hurt the ones you love. You might become similar to my old man, and be an abusive Dad without even realising it. Remember, it's the little things that kids remember, that shape them in their adult life. So here's some things that I noticed.




Sadness
I know this is a soft start. But for me it was a sadness that didn't leave me for months, and sometimes years. It was a sinking feeling that just pervaded every part of my life. I was short tempered, grumpy and spoke aggressively to the ones I loved. I would want to just isolate myself, and would wonder what the f***ing point was in this strange life. Even when I was out with the boys, I would feel different to everyone else. I may as well have been on the moon, that's how lonely this sadness made me feel.

Lack of Self Confidence
Now, this one gets confused a lot. Especially with Australian Men. We think that taking risks and f***ing about means you're confident. Just because you can go the hardest on your bike, talk s**t, shoot well, and make people laugh means you're confident. In fact, it's pretty common for comedians, jokers and class clowns to be intelligent and hyper-sensitive people. It's that same hyper-sensitivity that turns people's minds against them when left unchecked. Lack of self-confidence can manifest in many ways, but for me it was basically that I just didn't like myself - at all. I thought I was rude, that even my mates didn't like me, that I was a real piece of s**t. I didn't feel like I what I had to offer was valuable at all, and many times I thought it would be better if I just ended it. The fact is though lads, that's the thinking of a mind that needs help. None of us will improve the world by going out like that. Chances are you're just someone who is a bit sensitive and is suffering from faulty thinking.

Substance Abuse
For me, this one was a huge issue. It's hard to detect in Oz because we just love beer. It's part of our national identity. It's part of being a bloke. But it's also a slippery slope for some people. If you're getting pissed every weekend, challenge yourself to stop drinking for two months. If you can do it with no problems, okay. But if not, perhaps you might need to address the issue. I'm not here to tell you what you can and can't do, that's not me, but I can tell you that sometimes we are complicit in self-deception because it's [i]easier. But that doesn't make it real, and true.[/i]

Anxiety
Of all the things I experienced, this was the worst and the most difficult to get a grip on. Anxiety is a crafty little bugger, and can manifest itself in ways that you didn't even see coming. Panic attacks are a surefire indicator that you're probably not doing so well, and might benefit from a chat with a councilor, a mate, or a point of help like Beyond Blue. But just because you don't have panic attacks doesn't mean you don't have anxiety. If you notice you're worried about things that other people don't really think are a big deal, or you have racing thoughts and can't sleep, or even if you're just unable to turn off those horrible butterflies in the stomach - you could be suffering from anxiety.

Look, ultimately as men, we're a bit s**t at making noise about this in public. I'm not going to turn this into a Men Rights V Women's Rights conversation, although that's in and of itself a very interesting topic, but the fact is men die 4 years earlier but women's health gets four times more funding. That impacts us, especially with mental illness and suicide. We make up 80% of people who take their own life, and the fact is we're just not doing enough about it. A good example of how good women are at raising awareness to their own issues is the huge gap between funding for research into breast caner vs prostate cancer. Now, in my opinion this is because women are great at getting attention drawn to the issues that concern them most. Even the federal funding is hugely disproportionate despite the two cancers being just as prevalent and deadly as each other, and just as common.

We need to get better at this, and it starts with you seeking help either privately or making a bit of noise about it. The more your mates see it's okay to admit that you're struggling a bit from time to time, the more likely you are to not only improve your life, but to improve theirs. And who doesn't care about their mates?

Anyone is welcome to PM me at anytime, for any advice as to where to go to seek help, and even if you just want a general chit chat that won't go any further than between us, that's a promise. My lady suffered from PTSD, and as I said I'm bipolar, so between us we have enough understanding to at least try to help point you in the right direction.

Finally, the point I want to drill home is this:


Seeking help doesn't at all mean giving up your guns.

[newsteadvic]

Thank you Recurve, an excellent post .

[Gwion]

That must have taken some doing. Well done, Recurve.

[on_one_wheel]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

[Oldbloke]

What a thoughtful and intelligent post. Well done.

[North East]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

That's a pretty poor comment....isn't it?

[rsj223]

Mate you can really put your pen to paper so well (so to speak) and it looks like you complex mind but have the answers just keep taking steps forward, I wish I could speak like you.

[Gwion]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

Yes mate. Also, lung cancer and cardio vascular disease are all in your chest.

Just like prostate cancer is all in your arse.

Liver disfunction is also most likely in your beer. Or is it in your Bundy???

So.... should we ignore all of them???

[on_one_wheel]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

That's a pretty poor comment....isn't it?

with all due respect I don't think it's poor at all.

ask yourself this, when a doctor diagnoses someone with a mental illness how dose he arrive at his diagnosis? Blody test .... no, x rays ... no, temperature , ear wax, look at your tongue. .... no He asks you how your feeling

Your mental state is simply your feelings ... it's all in your head

My father came up to me and told me he had been diagnosed with major depression and was using anti depressants, I was taken back by his courage to come to me with that but I asked him the same question about his diagnosis and said to him " Dad that's bulls**t. .. something in your life is making you depressed ... you need to sort it out "

Guess what ? He sorted it out , within the week he had filed a divorce with my mother and after all the messy divorce stuff had settled down he was one happy camper, new missus and all not to mention antidepressant free.

that's why I say, Depression. ..
It's all in your head

oh ... I forgot to mention, my mum took it really bad at the time but now she too has partnered up and is the happiest I have ever known her.

[on_one_wheel]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

Yes mate. Also, lung cancer and cardio vascular disease are all in your chest.

Just like prostate cancer is all in your arse.

Liver disfunction is also most likely in your beer. Or is it in your Bundy???

So.... should we ignore all of them???

yeah I do see your angle, I think it in my cigarettes and Bundy but if I cop prostate cancer I've got no idea how that got there

but the problem is the stigma attached to " mental illness " that means 99% of people that have been " diagnosed with mental illness " won't mutter a word about it ... because people judge and no one wants to be the mental guy.

It's kinda like a back injury ... all of a sudden you become your bosses biggest risk and you need to spend the rest of your life managing that injury only with your brain you can make a full recovery. .. at least in your mind.

[North East]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion....some will agree and some will not. It's all cool.

[jake84]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

Yes mate. Also, lung cancer and cardio vascular disease are all in your chest.

Just like prostate cancer is all in your arse.

Liver disfunction is also most likely in your beer. Or is it in your Bundy???

So.... should we ignore all of them???

well said this person has looked to us (community ) for support not your smart ass comments
its like saying depression dose not exist because its in some ones head .what a pompous thing to say
how about you put down your bundy and go to a psychiatric hospital and tell them all that i Dare you !!!
it took a man of steel to bring this topic to light !!
yes you are entitled to your opinion though before you run your words do your home work .
i think its safe to say just by your own comments i would say you where unfit to hold a licence and the person who has taken the time out to under stand his own situation has more rights than you Bundy .
the very fact you've stated "See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head" shows me that your clearly not competent !
how can you comprehend not to should some one or your self for that matter when you cant even differentiate between the two mental illness that has been proven since man roamed this earth
based on your own mind set id happily give this person a licence with conditions and cancel yours

[pajamatime]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

That's a pretty poor comment....isn't it?

no...it really is in your head =)
its not in your heart now is it? perhaps for some it might be lol

I have spent tireless hours helping mentally unstable individuals and something I always find is that Anti depressants only work if the individuals want them to much the same way as a individual will only succeed in getting better if they want to. The "mind" is a significant contributor to the majority of our problems and if we can just get past the "label" and start focusing on positive thinking we can cure our self of a great many things.

Some people can only take advantage of this natural ability to cure oneself by consuming prescription drugs or some sort of pill coined " the positive influence of being treated by something" which makes us feel more positive about a full recovery. but why benefit a corporations bottom line when you can benefit your own lol

after all drug companies have allot invested in making us think we can't help our self's right. I mean look at the god awful price they charge for that new melanoma drug? something over the 10k mark a treatment? lmao delicious

[adam]

Very well written, with many good points.

Whilst not the main point of the post, - I haven't really actually considered the difference between support for men and women either. You learn something new every day!

[on_one_wheel]

Yeah right o Jake ... What ever ...

We'll judging by your rant against me , I wouldn't trust you with a butter knife. Go back and read my explanation before you go shooting off at the mouth.

But I stand my ground ... It's all in your head.

[Gwion]

I get your angle from the story related.

I think people get their back up because the off hand remark comes across as a bit glib.

Also, the causes behind these conditions aren't always so straight forward as your example. Sometimes they are long entrenched environmental issues (ie: bad upbringing or traumatic experiences) and sometimes they are related to an individual's bio chemistry.

Blanket statements of "it's all in your head" are too simplistic and can be seen or taken to heart as a belittlement of the issues or problems for individuals battling through.

So, while i see your point, i don't think it is helpful to many.

[jake84]

Yeah right o Jake ... What ever ...

We'll judging by your rant against me , I wouldn't trust you with a butter knife. Go back and read my explanation before you go shooting off at the mouth.

But I stand my ground ... It's all in your head.

lol nothing you can say sport will change my mind i have read your posts on this matter !.
Stand your ground as much as you want as your entitled to your own opinion So Am I .

I've read these posts from other peoples angle and can agree that some would feel different about it .

you don't feel different about this topic you just have your head in the sand so I'll say it again' do your home work Bundy before YOU deicide to be a key board worrier

[ToyotaBoy]

HEY RECURVEMAN,

Well done on showing the courage to discuss your mental illness out in a public forum to people you dont even know. KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT MATE.

i love this site even tho i rarely speak in/on here. ive watched this topic for the last few days with great interest and its after reading al the post's i feel i need to say this.
seeing the amount of support that strangers on here give is outstanding in my eyes.
let me say this - what im about to say is not meant to offend anyone, that not my point.
im a mental health victim/survivor. i have been thru two bushfire's, the 2nd was black saturday which killed 173 people in less than 12hours. i have seen hell, i have seen death, ive seen good in people and ive seen the s**t in people. without going into to much detail i lost my home, buried friends, buried people who committed suicied after the fire. i was an alcoholic for 5 yrs after fire, i hated the world and the people in it. do i still have anger issues and other issues YES I DO but through years of therapy and medication its mostly under control. ive had my guns taken off me for my own safety but got managed to get some real support and had them returned to me an now the only time i feel normal again is when im out hunting or training my new dog.
now that ive said all that i need to say this, IM NOT HAVING A GO AT ANYONE when i say to the person who said "its all in your head", you totally right it kinda is, i understand what yr saying i really do but to people who have a mental illness its a bad choice of words that you used thats all mate, im not havig a go at you im just being the voice of reason from someone that understands both sides
happy hunting people

[Oldbloke]

"its all in your head", yep, it is, but its a poor choice of words and shows a complete lack of empathy.

[FuzzyM]

Well said Recurve! Pity it had to turn into a silly argument.
Serious issue that needs to be talked about more,

[joker]

Onya mate

[ToyotaBoy]

people it was a bad choice of words and lets leave it at that, no more comments about it please. lets get back to wat the post is really about ok, lets all hug and move along

cheers

[KWhorenet]

Regardless of peoples state of mind day to day, regardless of sad happy sane insane considered normal abnormal mature or otherwise...

How someone reacts in stressful situations is not known until one has been in them, lived through them.

So the hard part is, what is clinically OK according to the norm will not show anything of the persons true grit to cope day to day.

Baselining a measure on everyone for normality, as managing populations can only really be broad brush, cater for all and consider the lowest common denominator and soak some risk; nothing can foresee someone snapping and over reacting.

I know people who are not diagnosed with anything, they wouldn't admit they needed help if they did. Some I wouldn't trust to drive my car let alone borrow my guns. But unless people ask for help often the ones at risk go un-noticed.

My point; those with the guts, understanding of their own well-being and who can intellectualise their situation should be seen as very normal and low risk.

IMO, the ones in denial of ever having depression, anxiety or anger issues of some form or another are either dishonest or afraid to ask for help or likely to be hiding behind their well practiced front and persona.

I'd trust someone honest with issues before a bullshitter who is an unknown quantity any day.

My psycho babble for the day.

Bacon n egg muffins anyone?

[recurveman]

See, the thing about mental illness. ... it's all in your head.

That's a pretty poor comment....isn't it?

with all due respect I don't think it's poor at all.

ask yourself this, when a doctor diagnoses someone with a mental illness how dose he arrive at his diagnosis? Blody test .... no, x rays ... no, temperature , ear wax, look at your tongue. .... no He asks you how your feeling

Your mental state is simply your feelings ... it's all in your head

My father came up to me and told me he had been diagnosed with major depression and was using anti depressants, I was taken back by his courage to come to me with that but I asked him the same question about his diagnosis and said to him " Dad that's bulls**t. .. something in your life is making you depressed ... you need to sort it out "

Guess what ? He sorted it out , within the week he had filed a divorce with my mother and after all the messy divorce stuff had settled down he was one happy camper, new missus and all not to mention antidepressant free.

that's why I say, Depression. ..
It's all in your head

oh ... I forgot to mention, my mum took it really bad at the time but now she too has partnered up and is the happiest I have ever known her.

Hey Mate,

I appreciate that you have your own way of looking at things, like we all do, and it's great that it worked for your old man. But to be honest I think that you might benefit from taking a step back and re-assessing the situation in the broader sense of the word. This isn't a personal attack, but

Firstly, you're way off to dismiss mental illness as 'feelings'. It's not that at all, that is a symptom of a greater, far more complex system. The brain is a real, physical organ in your body, and like all physical organs - it's subject to malfunction. You can't think your way out of bipolar, PTSD, schizophrenia and a vast amount of other mental illnesses. That's like trying to think your way out of cancer. You've got Buckley's.

You see, the reason that people are reacting to your post is pretty simple. The position you take isn't unique, and it's the social meme of 'it's all in your head' that is the exact flavour of ignorance responsible for the ongoing status quo regarding men and mental illness. The whole reason that there is such a sky high suicide statistic in males is because there are too many viewpoints, such as your own, that promote an unfounded and unscientific approach to a medical condition. It's dangerous, I think that's why people are a bit edgy mate.

From my perspective, it really takes two seconds to see that your black and white thinking is flawed. Stay with me here, and genuinely listen - I'm not f***ing with you, I would love to open your eyes to a different way of looking at this. 'Feelings' are not, as you seem to think, the beginning and the end of the issue. That position dangerously lacks complexity. Here's an example that counters your views:

Hyperthyroidism is basically when some little glands that are working too hard and change the makeup of hormones in your blood. Now, the brain - which is an organ, not just 'feelings' - reacts to the new makeup of the blood and that manifests itself in a dramatic change of 'feelings'. For example, you feel nervousness, anxiety, irritability and high emotions - as well as an increased libido - the feeling of being horny as f***.

So, you see? Chemicals actually do effect the tremendous organ that is the brain, and in doing so, changes your feelings against their will. Not the other way around. Although, you're right in one sense, if you decrease stress, meditate and eat well - you can actually change the chemical make up of your brain. But that only goes so far. For example, you can't meditate your way out of a brain tumour that is effecting your frontal lobe. The frontal lobe is where your personality and abstract thinking is generated. Injuries and tumours in this area create huge personality changes, or big swings of 'feelings'. Again, a symptom - not the over-simplified view that you take.

You should read a book called - The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat by Oliver Sachs. He's an amazingly funny, and incredibly talented author that covers the odd things that happen when a brain is chemically, physically or functionally out of whack. It's one of the best books I've ever read. You should get into it.

While I'd prefer you to just understand the obviousness of the counterpoint of your argument, I understand that some people who are suffering more than you could ever imagine would be genuinely insulted. I'm not, but I'd like to see you try to explain your theory to people who are sick and need help. I'd like to see you explain to a veteran that wakes up screaming in the middle of the night, that the burning flesh he smells and screams he hears in his bedroom are just 'feelings'. Or could you tell a young man that the reason he can't get it up isn't because he's psychologically damaged from being raped as a child, that it's just his 'feelings'? I doubt it, and if you can, I wouldn't blame them for being upset with you.

Did you know that feelings are chemicals? The 5HT2A receptor regulates mood, it's the lock and compounds like serotonin and melatonin are the keys. Too little, or uneven amounts of either of those spell trouble. Serotonin imbalances are a huge cause of depression, not the other way around. Melatonin is the compound known as 'the sleeping hormone' that also fits into the 5HT2A receptor, and if the pineal gland fails to produce enough - you'll have racing thoughts, anxiety and won't get to sleep. If you take a melatonin pill, you'll get sleepy, and if someone tries to keep you awake - you'll get cranky. Chemicals and feelings are one inter-dependent system, you see?

Feelings are a symptom in an infinitely complex and fascinating organ. However, they are not a sole cause.

Funnily enough, your opinion is a symptom - a symptom of an out-of-date collective mentality that is increasing the risks of good men hanging themselves, because they think their 'feelings' are messed up - and it's their fault.

Take some time to think about what I've said.

R

[Gwion]

^^^^^

[mahna]

Good on you for sharing your experience on this mate.

[on_one_wheel]

In light of being shot down by people that don't like my opinion and those who call me a keyboard warrior, I have changed my catch phrase on mental illness.

See the thing with mental illness. .... your not fit to hold a firearms licence because your sick in the head.

Thought you'd like that Jake

[Strikey]

In light of being shot down by people that don't like my opinion and those who call me a keyboard warrior, I have changed my catch phrase on mental illness.

See the thing with mental illness. .... your not fit to hold a firearms licence because your sick in the head.

Thought you'd like that Jake

Seems like you're a bit bored, hey, I have been watching this thread and have to applaud Recurveman for having the balls to admit to his problems on a public forum but your comments seem to be aimed at provoking an argument or are you attention seeking, either way, you should have taken the hint from other posters that your comments are not needed or wanted, bugger off!

[on_one_wheel]

In light of being shot down by people that don't like my opinion and those who call me a keyboard warrior, I have changed my catch phrase on mental illness.

See the thing with mental illness. .... your not fit to hold a firearms licence because your sick in the head.

Thought you'd like that Jake

Seems like you're a bit bored, hey, I have been watching this thread and have to applaud Recurveman for having the balls to admit to his problems on a public forum but your comments seem to be aimed at provoking an argument or are you attention seeking, either way, you should have taken the hint from other posters that your comments are not needed or wanted, bugger off!

You're a smart man Strike, you nailed it. It's cheep entertainment for me.

As for being brave, I'd only give recurve man 3 / 10 points on that one because here on a forum he is just Mr X ... pretty much totally anonymous.

[Oldbloke]

Lets move on and ignore on one wheel.
Seems he fell off his bike.