Definition of a fudd (disgraceful!)

[juststarting]

On new Adler talks... This is one of the comments in The Age article. This is a definition of a fudd.

[on_one_wheel]

Typical fake gun owner comment.

I cant bring myself to add to the CLICK count for that rubbish.

EDIT; But yes, if he's a genuine FA. owner then that's as FUDD as you can get.

[happyhunter]

Nobody takes those comments seriously. Majority of Australians barely give gun laws a thought.

[deadkitty]

Interesting how some like to deny the bleeding obvious, i.e. many gun owners are opposed to giving more firepower to a noisy, angry minority who want Australia to be just like America. Some of us who have called for a moderation of views, especially on forums like this, get shouted down with abuse and ridicule because they do not conform to the mindset of the noisiest radical few. I had hopes of engaging shooters and having a reasoned discussion/ debate on the future direction of shooting, including how shooters engage with the media. While I have encountered a few souls willing to discuss these things, it seems that the fanatics dominate this forum and it will be to the detriment of ALL shooters if this continues. I am not alone in this view, consider the following post from a licenced shooting farmer from WA.

Re: GREENS - Here we go again!

Post by WacoYFM » 09 Oct 2016, 9:37 am
First time posting, I have been reading for a while now, looking for a forum to gain information, read about others adventures and perhaps post some of my own. This is not it. There are some threads that are interesting. The threads with the most posts are about everybody’s right to have a 20mm chain gun just because they want it and anyone who diverges from their views is immediately labelled a fudd,greenie & anti.
I live in the state with the most onerous gun laws & I still don’t agree that just anyone should be able to have whatever they want, I am a primary producer (cockie) I have firsthand experience of undesirables having access to firearms. The consequences range from shot up signs, insulators, to wounded and dead stock. I shudder every time I refuse a request for permission to shoot on the station or a property letter the least to expect is the ute digging up the road in, or worst shooting some cattle, I now photograph every vehicle that comes on to the place, trail cams are great.
As an aside my other interest is flying. As a comparison should a relatively inexperienced pilot like me (less than 250 hours TFT no endorsements, experience on high wing Cessna’s only) be able to fly a multi engine retractable because I want to?
I have been shooting most of my life, lately I have been taking more interest in it, getting into reloading using a proper bench rest to test loads, bought a chronograph, looking at a better rifle thinking of joining a club. If the vocal minority I see on this site are indicative of even a small group at a rifle club then forget it.

WacoYFM
Private
Private

Posts: 1
-

Your sport is under attack guys and your opposition is going to fail unless you collectively address the issues both Wayco and I have raised. Social media is not a good place to post angry, anti-green rants against everyone with concerns about who should own what kind of firearm, it only provides ammo for the opposition. FUDD"s?...... look in the mirror, stop believing your own social media rants, they are a tiny minority of the general population. Personally I'm beginning to wonder if the anti's are right, there are too many nuts out there with guns.... it's sure starting to look that way. Cheers

[juststarting]

So in your view, DK, Adler should moved to Cat C?

[Baronvonrort]

So in your view, DK, Adler should moved to Cat C?

What about ladies like Marion Barnes who has a semi auto shotgun for clay shooting, do you think she should be allowed to hunt ducks with her semi auto or does she have to own another shotgun for duck hunting?

If she can be trusted to use a semi auto for clay what is the problem with using it for duck hunting?

http://www.facebook.com/oneshotaustralia1

[Baronvonrort]

On new Adler talks... This is one of the comments in The Age article. This is a definition of a fudd.

A lot of people pretend to be gun owners online, they're easy to catch out with a lack of knowledge with our laws.

[happyhunter]

Some of us who have called for a moderation of views, especially on forums like this, get shouted down with abuse and ridicule because they do not conform to the mindset of the noisiest radical few.

So shooters were forced to give up previously legal to own firearms, then forced to abide by draconian laws that include allowing access to our homes without cause or warrant, then we are held to the highest scrutiny where even the most minor breech results in the loss of our firearms, How much more moderation and compliance are we expected to allow? 24/7 camera surveillance of our homes? GPS tracking and reporting of our movements (aka, NSW R licence "can I please go shooting application')

The fact is without just reason, there are people who hate guns and the shooting sports are under the constant attack. The more we give, the more they want to take and they (gun control advocates) will not stop until civilian gun ownership is banned.

The way you harp on about the USA and their gun laws dog whistling.

[dpskipper]

Either a troll, or some idiot "hobby farmer" who has a bolt action .22 and slanders anyone who thinks they need anything more powerful.

[scotty87]

Interesting how some like to deny the bleeding obvious, i.e. many gun owners are opposed to giving more firepower to a noisy, angry minority who want Australia to be just like America. Some of us who have called for a moderation of views, especially on forums like this, get shouted down with abuse and ridicule because they do not conform to the mindset of the noisiest radical few. I had hopes of engaging shooters and having a reasoned discussion/ debate on the future direction of shooting, including how shooters engage with the media. While I have encountered a few souls willing to discuss these things, it seems that the fanatics dominate this forum and it will be to the detriment of ALL shooters if this continues. I am not alone in this view, consider the following post from a licenced shooting farmer from WA.

Re: GREENS - Here we go again!

Post by WacoYFM » 09 Oct 2016, 9:37 am
First time posting, I have been reading for a while now, looking for a forum to gain information, read about others adventures and perhaps post some of my own. This is not it. There are some threads that are interesting. The threads with the most posts are about everybody’s right to have a 20mm chain gun just because they want it and anyone who diverges from their views is immediately labelled a fudd,greenie & anti.
I live in the state with the most onerous gun laws & I still don’t agree that just anyone should be able to have whatever they want, I am a primary producer (cockie) I have firsthand experience of undesirables having access to firearms. The consequences range from shot up signs, insulators, to wounded and dead stock. I shudder every time I refuse a request for permission to shoot on the station or a property letter the least to expect is the ute digging up the road in, or worst shooting some cattle, I now photograph every vehicle that comes on to the place, trail cams are great.
As an aside my other interest is flying. As a comparison should a relatively inexperienced pilot like me (less than 250 hours TFT no endorsements, experience on high wing Cessna’s only) be able to fly a multi engine retractable because I want to?
I have been shooting most of my life, lately I have been taking more interest in it, getting into reloading using a proper bench rest to test loads, bought a chronograph, looking at a better rifle thinking of joining a club. If the vocal minority I see on this site are indicative of even a small group at a rifle club then forget it.

WacoYFM
Private
Private

Posts: 1
-

Your sport is under attack guys and your opposition is going to fail unless you collectively address the issues both Wayco and I have raised. Social media is not a good place to post angry, anti-green rants against everyone with concerns about who should own what kind of firearm, it only provides ammo for the opposition. FUDD"s?...... look in the mirror, stop believing your own social media rants, they are a tiny minority of the general population. Personally I'm beginning to wonder if the anti's are right, there are too many nuts out there with guns.... it's sure starting to look that way. Cheers

Mate, alot of shooters on forums such as this don't want to contribute to these discussions anymore because our voice isnt heard, and to an anti any suggestion ofloosening of the the laws puts you in the same bracket as an NRA loving "from our cold dead hands" stereotype.

None of us are nuts, and its not a minority, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to elect members to federal Parliament, shooters want the heat taken off, we don't want to be demonised by national media and we want common sense used in decision making by our law makers and public servants, we don't want grey area interpretation like appearance laws on BOLT action rifles and we want to own shotguns that were invented over a century ago without illogical restriction.

I agree that most of those sorts of posts on media sites are usually by liars who dont even have a licence, I would find it hard to believe that anyone who has gone through the licensing process would want it to be anymore difficult or drawn out than it currently is.

[deadkitty]

Ok, I will try to explain, the (non-shooting) public is fearful of people with guns, the reasons might be the governments terrorism scaremongering or the media's ...regardless, the public is frightened, can we all agree on that?. The non- shooting public is basically ignorant of the various branches of the shooting sports, they do not understand the need for a shooter to own ( my personal bugbear) more than one firearm. So when a bunch of "armed" irrate shooters jump up and down and make non-sensical arguments to a (gun ignorant) public, the public reacts wuth fear. Shooters need to recognise those issues. On JS's question, when you know that I do not live in your state and have no interest in your states laws, or indeed in NSW State laws regarding which firearms fall into which category, your question is another obvious attempt to prove something. Happy hunter, by owning a firearm you have agreed to comply with the laws regarding same, I don't like some of them either but I accept that, if I choose to own a gun then I am obligated to comply with the law, it is my choice as it is yours. You made the statement that "The more we give, the more they want to take and they (gun control advocates) will not stop until civilian gun ownership is banned. ", I would see it this way, the more strident and agressive the response from shooters, the more reason they have to do just that. The public don't seem to object to most of the shooting sports, hunting has to deal with the Peta's and animal libbers, they will never be happy with anything ever being shot, but they are also an extremely small number. Every farmer I know has a gun, do the public object?, no!, every non shooter I know supports Australias Shooting teams, whatever their form, there are shooting clubs all over the country and the public dosen't mind at all. Now, what is the public afraid of?, essentially someone going off the rails armed with a semi-auto in a heavily populated area. Deal with the facts, the public supported Howrds gun law changes after witnessing several massacres. the public is afraid that weakening those laws will mean a return to more massacres. Personally, and this is my opinion only, if someone does go off their head while armed with a semi-auto, the government will move to ban them and will have massive ( frightened) public support. As for my "dog whistling"over USA gun laws, it is something that is a BIG factor in the publics perception of shooters, that is something we do NOT need, in fact I'd say it does us more harm than good. I hope this helps you all understand my position.

[deadkitty]

Scotty, I didn't like the delays getting my licence, but, I accept they have to check out who is applying and has what firearm. I also don't like the silly "äpplication to hunt" type forms we have here in NSW.

DS Skipper was your comment directed at me?.... not a hobby farmer, own a bolt action .223 and have been shooting since around 1965, not opposed to shooting sports of any form. Not slandering anyone, just trying to get shooters to approach the issues in a different, more effective way. Cheers

[juststarting]

DK, what is that way? So far you've been talking in circles and doing your best to avoid straight answers. So what is it that you are proposing? Who? How? When? Instead of towing an apologist party line), share with me your strategy?

Also, I still would like to hear your opinion about Adler, should it be kept in Cat A, moved out of reach of recreational shooters? What do YOU think?

[AusTac]

No one goes wobbly over night, theres always a lead up to the event, but the pen pushers are reactive and go ' she'll be right ' sometimes years before something happens.

Anyway, the cops will protect us, because we all live in happy happy fantasy land.

[Oldbloke]

I hate cricket, boooring. Due to the recent death I move that all bats be msde of plastic and balls be foam rubber. All our beloved cricketers will be safer.
BTW, Im not interested in discussing it further I have made up my mind.

Oh, forgot, fishing boats, boooring, ban them due to about 100 drowning every year. Everyone can go to the fish market.


Oh, surfing, ban that due to the shark attacks.

All cars and motor bikes must be speed limited to 60km for everyones protection.

Truck drivers will need to lock up the truck keys wben not driving to ensure the mrs doesnt jump in a take it for a drive. And this must be subject to inspection. Natura,ly the police will remove and destroy the truck if he is non compliant.

Just ask an expert. Might run as a senator next election, idiots will vote for me.

[Supaduke]

Could you ban karaoke while your at it, drunkards murdering songs is just inhuman

[deadkitty]

DK, what is that way? So far you've been talking in circles and doing your best to avoid straight answers. So what is it that you are proposing? Who? How? When? Instead of towing an apologist party line), share with me your strategy?

Also, I still would like to hear your opinion about Adler, should it be kept in Cat A, moved out of reach of recreational shooters? What do YOU think?

I am reluctant to even reply to your obvious negativity towards me or any of the things I put forward, you seem intent on getting me to answer questions relating to specific gun laws so you can,once again, start your usual name calling. I have given you many straight answers, ones you seem unable to either read or comprehend. As for "towing an apologist party line" which party line am I supposedly towing?. My strategy is simple, firstly, find out if there is enough concensus among shooters to attempt a new way of dealing with the media beat ups, and, try to find new ways to educate the general public on the many aspects of shooting. So far, given the clear opposition to my presence here, it seems doomed to fail. I'll give you my opinion of the Adler if you give me YOUR opinion on the recent movement of the genus Callistemon into Melaleuca...... I'm sure this topic takes up a considerable portion of your time...like about as much as I spend on the Adler issue, should they be considered the same genus or are they entirely different?, can you tell me why you think so?,it is essential to this discussion that you give me a direct answer . That is your strategy. Please stop wasting my time OK?

[deadkitty]

No one goes wobbly over night, theres always a lead up to the event, but the pen pushers are reactive and go ' she'll be right ' sometimes years before something happens.

Anyway, the cops will protect us, because we all live in happy happy fantasy land.

Re "No one goes wobbly overnight" yes they do!, psychoic episodes can happen to those predisposed at almost anytime....which is why we have licence checks on people...... and they can't guarantee that they'll pick them all up when checking. It's not just psychotic people that go off the rails either. I'd rather have the cops protecting me than a bunch of teenagers armed with firearms or some self styled militia. Cheers

[juststarting]

You did jump into my topic, after your, hey lets ignore each other... I wasn't complaining, but here you are. If it was up to you, it would be bolt actions for everyone. This is how you come across. Hey, I am 50/50 on that The Age screenshot too, you were mighty fast to jump. Capitalisation and punctuations seem to be similar.

[juststarting]

teenagers armed with firearms or some self styled militia. Cheers

There you go with your US crazy talk again... You ever seen armed teenagers in a well organised militia protecting anyone? I spent considerable amount of time stateside, didn't spot any.

[HulkFury]

Oldbloke, this my thoughts exactly.
We live in a free society and should not be restricted to only having things we need, we should be allowed things we want.
Plenty of pools, beaches, cars, fast food, bike riding, sunshine etc claim lives regularly. If we are restricted to needs only, it would be a very sad existence indeed.
Legally owned firearms are not bigger killers than the things above, they just look a lot scarier.

[brett1868]

My strategy is simple, firstly, find out if there is enough concensus among shooters to attempt a new way of dealing with the media beat ups, and, try to find new ways to educate the general public on the many aspects of shooting

DK, Sorry to take a quote out of context but I'm definitely keen to hear of ideas to deal with the media beat up along with how we can educate the general public. I try to set a good example of being a responsible firearms user and do my best to educate the ignorant. Even managed to get a few new shooters licensed and out enjoying the sport kicking themselves for not taking it up sooner. I've donated the use of my land for a young banana bender his family and a couple mates to plink away in the bush for a few (wet) days. Happy to share my toys at the range with almost anyone that shows interest in what I'm shooting. Posted a chronograph to a relative stranger to assist with load development and so far I've had nothing but positive results.
Guess my point is that in order to grow the sport we need to stop the division within its ranks. Stop the division, back one another and recognise that every shooter is drawn to the sport for a multitude of reasons that we may or may not agree with or understand. One shooter saying he sees no need of the Adler or calibers >X only creates division and plays straight into the Anti's hands. You make many good points and I don't really know why so many are trying to flog you, maybe they get a different interpretation than I do from your posts. If you want to discuss your ideas then by all means put them forward either public or pm me.

I'll start....NSW Centric opinion as this is where I live / shoot most.
Why don't we draft our own set of laws? Make it fair, Cover all uses be it blackpowder or 50BMG target shooting + everything in the middle / fringes and consistent across all disciplines and states.

Create our own Media / PR group to call out and dispel the myth's and BS perpetuated by the current uninformed media. Similar to Senator Ricky Muir on YouTube dispelling the Adler rapid fire myth. SSAA / SU should be doing this but I'm yet to see it done properly.

Registry - Take the best from each state, online PTA applications, 1-2hr approvals, Police inspection of safe keeping prior to issuing of first PTA. Dump the appearance laws altogether. Keep the stuff that works and gives joe public a warm fuzzy safe feeling. 5 yr license options.

Handguns - Permitted for hunting once full Cat H held for 1 year and possibly some course / accreditation requirement. No change to other requirements such as club memberships / attendance requirements. If primary producer then they should be able to have at least 1 handgun to dispatch stock if required. Same goes for professional shooters, a pistol it much easier and safer to put an animal out of its misery then a near point blank shot with a centre fire rifle.

Hunting - I'm not a fan of hunting in National Parks due to the volume of families that may be there unless it's an organised hunt in conjunction with the authorities to control pests and park closed to general admission. Crown land and state forest by permit issued on successful completion of appropriate course and valid for duration of firearms license similar to Type R in NSW but without all the booking overhead and grief.

Juniors - lower the age limit from 12 to 10 and no license requirement if under the direct supervision of an adult license holder before age 12.

Suppressors - Made more available to target shooters, hunters, farmers and professionals on a per caliber permit.

Waiting times - Dump the 28+28 day waiting periods. Keep the 28 day license wait but once granted, no waiting an additional 28 days for PTA.

Government funding and support for the elite shooters in Olympic / World title level events.

Massive penalties / mandatory gaol time for offences involving an unregistered or illegally obtained firearm. Same applies to theft of firearm.

Semiauto's - Like DK I'm not a fan of anyone just rocking up to a gunshop and purchasing a semi BUT I do see their appeal and usefulness so maybe keep the existing cat d but make getting that license a bit easier for sporting shooters with a valid need. Also maybe allow shooters over a certain age and having continuously held a license for x years to purchase a semi.
Semi's are not banned, they're just harder to get but there's nothing stopping you getting a Cat C license then buying a Thompson Sub Machine gun. You can't shoot it but you can own it.

Maybe an increase in penalties across the board for offences to show Joe Public we don't condone the illegal activities of the few idiots out there.

These are my thoughts, ideas and opinions. I've slipped into my Asbestos manties, donned the Gimp mask borrowed from Oldbloke and await the flaming to begin

[juststarting]

Flaming begins!

Suppressors should be available to everyone with a centrefire.

Ok, I got nothing else to add.

[dpskipper]

Scotty, I didn't like the delays getting my licence, but, I accept they have to check out who is applying and has what firearm. I also don't like the silly "äpplication to hunt" type forms we have here in NSW.

DS Skipper was your comment directed at me?.... not a hobby farmer, own a bolt action .223 and have been shooting since around 1965, not opposed to shooting sports of any form. Not slandering anyone, just trying to get shooters to approach the issues in a different, more effective way. Cheers

No it was not. I was referring to OP's screenshot. I don't know of any shooter who wants tigher laws...

[Wylie27]

Flaming begins!

Suppressors should be available to everyone with a centrefire.

Ok, I got nothing else to add.

What the hell did my rimfire do to you? Not good enough for your utopian Murica world

[juststarting]

Flaming begins!

Suppressors should be available to everyone with a centrefire.

Ok, I got nothing else to add.

What the hell did my rimfire do to you? Not good enough for your utopian Murica world

Ooops

[deadkitty]

My strategy is simple, firstly, find out if there is enough concensus among shooters to attempt a new way of dealing with the media beat ups, and, try to find new ways to educate the general public on the many aspects of shooting

DK, Sorry to take a quote out of context but I'm definitely keen to hear of ideas to deal with the media beat up along with how we can educate the general public. I try to set a good example of being a responsible firearms user and do my best to educate the ignorant. Even managed to get a few new shooters licensed and out enjoying the sport kicking themselves for not taking it up sooner. I've donated the use of my land for a young banana bender his family and a couple mates to plink away in the bush for a few (wet) days. Happy to share my toys at the range with almost anyone that shows interest in what I'm shooting. Posted a chronograph to a relative stranger to assist with load development and so far I've had nothing but positive results.
Guess my point is that in order to grow the sport we need to stop the division within its ranks. Stop the division, back one another and recognise that every shooter is drawn to the sport for a multitude of reasons that we may or may not agree with or understand. One shooter saying he sees no need of the Adler or calibers >X only creates division and plays straight into the Anti's hands. You make many good points and I don't really know why so many are trying to flog you, maybe they get a different interpretation than I do from your posts. If you want to discuss your ideas then by all means put them forward either public or pm me.

I'll start....NSW Centric opinion as this is where I live / shoot most.
Why don't we draft our own set of laws? Make it fair, Cover all uses be it blackpowder or 50BMG target shooting + everything in the middle / fringes and consistent across all disciplines and states.

Create our own Media / PR group to call out and dispel the myth's and BS perpetuated by the current uninformed media. Similar to Senator Ricky Muir on YouTube dispelling the Adler rapid fire myth. SSAA / SU should be doing this but I'm yet to see it done properly.

Registry - Take the best from each state, online PTA applications, 1-2hr approvals, Police inspection of safe keeping prior to issuing of first PTA. Dump the appearance laws altogether. Keep the stuff that works and gives joe public a warm fuzzy safe feeling. 5 yr license options.

Handguns - Permitted for hunting once full Cat H held for 1 year and possibly some course / accreditation requirement. No change to other requirements such as club memberships / attendance requirements. If primary producer then they should be able to have at least 1 handgun to dispatch stock if required. Same goes for professional shooters, a pistol it much easier and safer to put an animal out of its misery then a near point blank shot with a centre fire rifle.

Hunting - I'm not a fan of hunting in National Parks due to the volume of families that may be there unless it's an organised hunt in conjunction with the authorities to control pests and park closed to general admission. Crown land and state forest by permit issued on successful completion of appropriate course and valid for duration of firearms license similar to Type R in NSW but without all the booking overhead and grief.

Juniors - lower the age limit from 12 to 10 and no license requirement if under the direct supervision of an adult license holder before age 12.

Suppressors - Made more available to target shooters, hunters, farmers and professionals on a per caliber permit.

Waiting times - Dump the 28+28 day waiting periods. Keep the 28 day license wait but once granted, no waiting an additional 28 days for PTA.

Government funding and support for the elite shooters in Olympic / World title level events.

Massive penalties / mandatory gaol time for offences involving an unregistered or illegally obtained firearm. Same applies to theft of firearm.

Semiauto's - Like DK I'm not a fan of anyone just rocking up to a gunshop and purchasing a semi BUT I do see their appeal and usefulness so maybe keep the existing cat d but make getting that license a bit easier for sporting shooters with a valid need. Also maybe allow shooters over a certain age and having continuously held a license for x years to purchase a semi.
Semi's are not banned, they're just harder to get but there's nothing stopping you getting a Cat C license then buying a Thompson Sub Machine gun. You can't shoot it but you can own it.

Maybe an increase in penalties across the board for offences to show Joe Public we don't condone the illegal activities of the few idiots out there.

These are my thoughts, ideas and opinions. I've slipped into my Asbestos manties, donned the Gimp mask borrowed from Oldbloke and await the flaming to begin

Brett I agree with everything you've suggested, except for the mandatory sentencing, and I only object to that on the basis that innocent people do sometimes get caught up, wrongfully, in the legal system, (ex probation officer, so I've see this for myself). Thanks for your supportive comments, and I congratulate you on your proactive efforts to promote shooting, some of your points are what I've been trying to get across here, but I have a problem getting past the "us and them" mentality of some. Like you I think that new shooters should have to wait before they can buy a semi-auto, just like the drivers licencing system, once someone has gained experience and skills, then they can move up to a higher level of car or firearm. I know this is a contenious idea for some shooters, but as you said, it will make the public feel warm cosy and safer, it will also remove some of the anti's ammo, i.e. the inexperienced/ immature shooters with high powered "assault" weapons hype.
I saw an article in Australian Shooter where they had a "licencing system"in place in a school playground, where kids are taught firearms safety, and learn about shooting, this is, to my mind, an excellent idea! and a perfect example of being proactive, ditto the article on the shooting range in WA that doubles as a nature refuge, these are the sort of things that clubs need to emulate and not be shy about publicising it!. Here's a suggestion, for any range/club, why not approach Landcare about planting some native trees at the range?, I've seen a few that need a bit more shade and Landcare always get good coverage in the local media for any tree plantings they do. Things like that go a long way to improving the publics perceptions of shooting. If your club wants to try the latter, pm me, I have a native plant nursery and would like to help if I can. Have to run, seedlings to deliver.... Cheers

[Gwion]

I also support the "driver's licence" style approach to firearms.

Start of on your 'L' plates: standard A&B licence
Progress to 'P' plates: supervised use of C & D for proven sport or pest control purposes
'Full License' after probationary period and with endorsement of sport shooting club or pest control/primary production professionals.

Or something to that effect. Gives everyone a chance to get what they want and install a few checks and balances.

Donning the asbestos suit here but i know a few people i wouldn't go shooting with and have doubts as to their suitability to hold a licence. I sure as hell would not think it great if they could just buy what ever gun they wanted as soon as they were licenced.

This is why i support the NZ approach of licence approval where they have to be endorsed by a licence holder and have 3 people close to them interviewed.

After such approval, i think PTAs should all be computer approved/declined with in minutes to a fixed set of parameters. Leaving too much personal discretion to the police allows to much room for personal prejudice to creep in.

[Gwion]

Oh yeah, DK.
Harsher sentencing for those caught red handed with unlicenced/unregistered/stolen guns is a MUST in my book. It is something that all responsible shooters need to support; not only to show the public we are serious about fighting gun crime but also to bring some equality to the situation. Why should we licenced shooters risk such heavy penalties when CRIMS are getting slapped on the wrist???

Also, getting caught with a stolen/unregistered firearm, there is no way for "innocents to get caught up". You are either caught with it or you are not caught with it. Simple. Black and white.

[andreweden]

Here's my 'if I was king for a day' post.

With the types of weapons we are allowed and how you go about getting them, I don't think its all that bad. Really.
There is some bollocks around the appearance of weapons and some calibres, but its not exactly the end of the world. Would be nice to clear that up, but I don't think its the biggest issue.
All the bollocks around the 8 shot adler - in some ways I welcome it. It is a red herring. The 5 shot is legal. So its ok to shoot fast 5 times, but not 6, 7 or 8 times??
Whilst they are pissing about with all that - they are not messing with anything else.

The problem is not the weapons - its the shooters.

I was military for 15 years and let my licence lapse during that time and only recently came back to private ownership. So I have sat my AB&H courses in the last 12 months. Two different training providers and in both cases the 'exam' was done as a group thing with the instructor confirming the answer before anyone filled in the test. WTF!?? It is just pay to play. There were morons on both my courses that passed, and not just stupid morons, but dangerous stupid morons I would not want near me with a loaded firearm in their hands.

If this system of training is so robust and produces safe and law abiding shooters - why do the SSAA ranges have a 'single shot only' policy!? Clearly not even the SSAA believes that people with bolt action rifles are safe enough to use a magazine. Even more ridiculous at Ripley where the pistol range is 10m away and you can fire from full magazines.

I really think our training is pathetic and there are dangerous people out there because of it.

If we really had good training and people with a healthy respect for these weapons we wouldn't have weapons in the hands of those idiots make videos of themselves shooting up efigies of anti-gun campaigners. Because you know that does a lot for the cause!
In these circumstances I could not tolerate semi-autos being made widely available.

There should be ongoing testing of shooter's proficiency as a requirement to hold a licence.
This would underpin claims that licensed gun owners are safe, law abiding gun owners.
What do we do to self regulate?

I think if we as shooters could actually admit that there are people that currently legally own weapons that really shouldn't have them and became part of the solution of putting an end to that, then it would go a long way to quelling hysteria. The continual quote of 800000 law abiding gun owners in this country gets old, that is great, but you only need a dozen idiots on youtube to mess it up. The problem is we love to own the law abiding ones but then say the idiots are the cops problem. The idiots are our problem and we are doing nothing about it.
I'll bet my left nut that the single shot policy came from someone stuffing up - but instead of dealing with that idiot - even SSAA decides the best thing to do is punish/restrict everyone. Even our own 'system' is doing what we cry foul for the govt/law enforcement doing!?? All because I am sure that whoever it was is a good bloke and he didn't mean to so we're not reporting it to the cops or anything else, we'll just stop the use of magazines.

The continual carry-on of firearms ownership being a RIGHT. We should be treating as a privilege, and I think that is part of the problem.

I think we could have a shot at being able to own semi-auto centrefire rifles if you had to prove proficiency on an annual basis with an independent assessor and compete in something like 3-gun comps similar to H requirements. I lived in the US for 3 years and loved these comps - would love to do it again. But not with the current system.

PS: I have my lava proof flame suit on!