Reloading, Pros and Cons

[Adlippy]

G'day

I hope this isn't in the same class as what 22 I should buy, buuuut, as the title says, reloading the pros and cons, is it cost effective or like tying flies dearer but enjoyable, I am guessing there will be a major outlay at the beginning,.
Load development, how does one, develop ones load
How safe is it (maybe a silly question)
Is it time consuming
The Bastard who got me into this hobby,lifestyle,life changing event, etc etc dropped the hint the other day and I can't get the idea out of my head, which I am guessing was his plan.

Just realised I have put this post in the wrong section, sorry, it was going to be a question about adventure bikes, if anyone here rides them, see bloody reloading on my mind

Cheers

[AusTac]

I reload for my .303 using a new old school design kit called a lee loader, it's manual all but if you pay attention can produce some very fine ammo, costs about $70 in heaps of calibers, i find its cheaper and pretty satisfying to take brass thats useless and re use it

[tom604]

ooh where to start

cost,,,you can and do save money but you have to reload a lot before you break even

how to,,, buy a book or two,read them twice, start low work up ask a lot of questions but don't take the advice as gospel

safety,,,very, as long as you know what your doing,read the books ,ask questions,check everything

time,,,yep, takes a while at first but as you get to know what your doing and settle on a load it speeds up a bit,i find it relaxing

hope that helps a bit

[Adlippy]

Something I just thought of my mate and I both have the same caliber, 22-250, but different rifles, Sako and a tikka, would we have to keep the individual rifles casting seperate after the first shot or mixing them up not cause an issue

[Mitch]

Reloading is most cost effective when reloading for oddball calibres or not common ones.

I.e somw of my calibres are approx $70 per box of 20. I reload 20 for approx. $12. Saving that much recoups the outlay very quickly.

[bladeracer]

Something I just thought of my mate and I both have the same caliber, 22-250, but different rifles, Sako and a tikka, would we have to keep the individual rifles casting seperate after the first shot or mixing them up not cause an issue

Try them first.
If they're tight then you'd have to full-length size the brass for one rifle.

[bigfellascott]

G'day

I hope this isn't in the same class as what 22 I should buy, buuuut, as the title says, reloading the pros and cons, is it cost effective or like tying flies dearer but enjoyable, I am guessing there will be a major outlay at the beginning,.
Load development, how does one, develop ones load
How safe is it (maybe a silly question)
Is it time consuming
The Bastard who got me into this hobby,lifestyle,life changing event, etc etc dropped the hint the other day and I can't get the idea out of my head, which I am guessing was his plan.

Just realised I have put this post in the wrong section, sorry, it was going to be a question about adventure bikes, if anyone here rides them, see bloody reloading on my mind

Cheers

Cost effective? depends on how much you shoot and what you want out of it, ie cheaper ammo, more accuracy from your firearms etc. For me the cost wasn't really a factor I took into consideration when I started all those years ago, I was after better accuracy as I found the factory ammo at the time wasn't much chop in my Howa 222 and I'd ready enough about reloading at the time for it to peak my interest as it were so figured I'd buy a press and some dies (super simplex press and dies to suit) I was also given a reloading manual from Nick Harvey (friend of the family) so that helped me no end (no internet in those days so we had to rely on books or people who were into reloading) anyway I'd still be using that press no doubt but sadly I lent it to a friend who decided it was something he'd sell to support his drug habit at the time Was not happy but lesson learn't - don't loan anything to anyone every again!

What I really like about reloading today is the cost savings that I can achieve compared to factory ammo that generally doesn't shoot anywhere near as well as the home rolled stuff does. I'm no longer at the mercy of the gun shops and what they may or may have in the way of ammo I might need, if I need some I just swing off the press for an hour or so and knock out what I need and I'm good to go.

As for load development - easier to just read about it than having to go into that side of things (plenty of info out there)

Safe - Can't say I've ever had any issues reloading (can't say the same for BBq's)

Best thing I can say about reloading is get into it, you won't look back and the gear lasts a lifetime so not something you have to replace over and over like some other hobbies.

My advice would be to buy 2nd hand to help keep the costs down (plenty of forums have fella's that sell and swap reloading gear etc so worth looking that way if you want to keep costs down even more (I've bought presses, dies, scales etc) and never had an issue with any of them and they have saved me a small fortune in doing so.

Anyway mate good luck with it which ever way you go - RCBS are a great company to deal with should you run into problems with any of their gear, most of the time they will just replace it free of charge and pay postage too so definitely a company worth dealing with.

[Supaduke]

I've found reloading gives you premium ammo at entry level prices. When looking at the cost a lot of guys make the mistake of comparing the cheapest ammo available with their reloads. If you just want cheap ammo , sometimes it is cheaper to buy bulk plinking ammo. A place I know was selling PMC .223 Fmj's for under $11 a box. At that price, factoring in time, it's hardly worth trying to beat that.
Reloading is really saving money when you compare it to the more premium ammo available.
A box of .308 from a quality producer with high spec projectiles may cost $40 for 20.
To reload a similar spec round might cost you $15-$25. Projectiles are generally the biggest cost of reloading.
Buying in bulk will save more again.
If you are only an occasional shooter, reloading is generally not worth the effort.
Realistically to get set up with a press, dies, scale, prep tools, powder, primers, projectiles and a few other bits and bobs you are looking at not much change out of $500. More if you go for higher end stuff. And that's just the basics.
I think the various kits sold by Lee, Hornady, RCBS are excellent for beginners. They come with all the bits required to get you started (except dies).
Reloading is more about customisation and the satisfaction of rolling your own. It does save money but takes a fair few rounds to recoup your outlay.
Main thing is it's fun and a great learning experience.
All the main brands are very good.
Lee, Hornady, Dillion, RCBS, Redding. All make good stuff, just depends who you ask, it's a preference thing.
Main thing is be patient, precise, diligent and don't get too creative. Follow the recommendations of various powder manufacturers about starting and max loads.
Learn what you are doing and why you are doing it. Reloading is not difficult and not unlike power tools, perfectly safe when attention is paid. Be an inattentive fool and just like power tools you may lose a finger or worse. Just do some reading, as mentioned "Nick Harvey" is a reloading guru and his book is an excellent reference.

[sandgroperbill]

One thing I will say about reloading is that it is one large up-front outlay regardless of the number of rifles you have or acquire. Change the dies and you can use it for other rifles.

I don't bother reloading for .223 (yet) as I'm time poor, my rifle likes cheap bulk ammo and the cost of it doesn't justify it for the amount of .223 I shoot. I reload .30-06, though, and for a little less than the cost of cheap ammo I roll my own premium ammo.

Now here's the kicker. I recently acquired a new rifle in a caliber that would start at about $5 a round if I were buying factory stuff. But the sale included dies, cases and projectiles. I already had the powder, so just bought some new primers and away I went. The press is saving me several dollars every time I pull the trigger on that rifle. And if I acquire a new caliber? I simply buy a new turret head and set of dies and start saving money there, too.

[Gwion]

Something I just thought of my mate and I both have the same caliber, 22-250, but different rifles, Sako and a tikka, would we have to keep the individual rifles casting seperate after the first shot or mixing them up not cause an issue

It is not a good idea to use brass fired from another rifle for your reloading. If you do, you must full length size the brass back to standard spec before reloading it.

However, you will get the best results by reusing brass fired from your own rifle and just neck sizing to fit the new bullet. This brass will be what is termed "fire formed" to fit your chamber exactly. Coupled with the right reloading techniques this will give you very consistent pressures and therefore accuracy.

As mentioned above, stay focused and concentrate when reloading. Make notes about everything and clearly label your loads with their specs and what rifle it is loaded for if you have more than one in the same chambering. It is very safe as long as you stick to established practices and pay attention to what you are doing. Lose concentration and there is potential for things to go very wrong very quickly.

[happyhunter]

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[bigfellascott]

Do yourself a favor and buy Nick Harveys Reloading Manual, it has all the steps and processes that are involved in rolling your own - costs around $50 and well worth having as a way to learn and I'm sure your mate who got you into shooting would probably be able to give you plenty of info on reloading (I assume he does it as he's encouraging you to do it too) - reloading can be as simple or as complex as you want to make it, just depends on your needs and how fine tuned you want your ammo to be to suit those needs and that will determine what sort of gear you invest in (ie top end or mid/low end).

[juststarting]

Adlippy, check out my blog (link in footer) - I got some reloading cost posts there for equipment and per round...

[juststarting]

It is not a good idea to use brass fired from another rifle for your reloading. If you do, you must full length size the brass back to standard spec before reloading it.

To phrase this better - you can use brass fired in any rifle, in fact I buy once fired brass and it works just fine. Just make sure to full length resize it first to bring it back to standard specification.

[Gwion]

Actually, I was suggesting keeping his own brass for his own rifle for best results.
The question was: 'do I need to keep brass seperate?'
To which my response is "yes", it is better to do so. Your brass will last longer and you will get better precision if you avoid having to full length size and stick to using brass fire formed in your rifle.

[juststarting]

Actually, I was suggesting keeping his own brass for his own rifle for best results.
The question was: 'do I need to keep brass seperate?'
To which my response is "yes", it is better to do so. Your brass will last longer and you will get better precision if you avoid having to full length size and stick to using brass fire formed in your rifle.

Correct. Just not how it read to me

[happyhunter]

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[Gamerancher]

Harvey's book is an excellent resource for the beginner with regards to the actual process of reloading. However, some of his listed load data is a bit so-so. Best to reference a few different sources for starting loads.

Happyhunter, yes, I do both. In target rifles where you are shooting in a more or less "controlled" environment neck sizing only on brass that is fire-formed to the chamber does give a bit better degree of accuracy.
For a hunting rifle out in "field" conditions, I full-length size with the die backed out so that it just barely bumps everything back a bit. That way I know that the rounds are going to chamber and extract every time. The slight loss in accuracy is not noticeable to me in the bush.

[Gwion]

Harvey's book is an excellent resource for the beginner with regards to the actual process of reloading. However, some of his listed load data is a bit so-so. Best to reference a few different sources for starting loads.

I agree whole heartedly.

[Gwion]

Has anybody actually tested the FL vs neck sizing idea? Curious if anybody has actually tried both and measured the results in their rifle?

Yep. Small but definite improvements from fire formed brass. Maybe around 0.2 moa.

Tried it out on both 200 OSA 223r brass and 100 Norma 7-08 brass. Started by batching the brass by weight, giving it all a good going over for flash holes, etc. and then developing a load whilst fire forming. In the 223 I was getting consistent 0.6-0.7 moa from unfurled brass once a load was developed. Brought that down to reliably 0.5moa on second firing. A slight tweek of seating depth improved it again.

Just my simple testing but I'm convinced it makes a difference if you're trying to shave fractions off your group sizes. I like getting the best that I can from my ammo, even if it is for hunting. You can only put the bullet where it needs to go if you know it will go where you put it.

[juststarting]

You can only put the bullet where it needs to go if you know it will go where you put it.

Deep.

[Gwion]

Hehe... Zen in the Art of Shooting!

[Apollo]

Something I just thought of my mate and I both have the same caliber, 22-250, but different rifles, Sako and a tikka, would we have to keep the individual rifles casting seperate after the first shot or mixing them up not cause an issue

I may not have mentioned it last night on the phone but I have a .243W Tikka Super Varmint and a Sako 85 Varmint. I swap barrels between them. Two Tikka T3 Barrels and one Sako Barrel, They all measure up by my Gunsmith to be exactly the same especially head space so all the fired cases fit each other, exactly.

Sako are not Remington or Winchester or who ever, Sako quality control is very spot on......

[superdave]

When I started reloading a few years ago, I had one goal, to learn to make ammo without blowing my rifle or myself up. So I read extensively and thought through what I would do and how.

One thing I did was to make dummy rounds in the cal that I started with, .308. By that I mean I didn't seat a primer in the case or fill it with powder, but it was complete in every other way, ie cleaned, sized, with a projectile seated in the neck as far as the max length specs would allow, and crimped.

Doing this allows you to do things like setting up your dies to the correct adjustment,and using the round in your rifle to check that it will sit in the magazine, feed from the magazine and chamber without problems.

It's a half step to loading a real round that allows you to check that what you've done that far has been ok.
For safety's sake when I make one of these I put a ring around the case with a blue marker to remind myself what it is, so I don't mistake it for a live round and vice versa

[happyhunter]

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[Gwion]

True enough. My theory is that the better my load and rifle precision the more confident I can be that where I am aiming is where the bullet will go. Probably no point making a round capable of 0.5moa when a 1moa round will do the job 90% of the time but when your shooting at a 2-3" kill zone at 200m, having that confidence in your gear gives you just a little more tolerance if wind conditions put a bit more drift than you expect. Just the way I look at it.

[bigfellascott]

You can only put the bullet where it needs to go if you know it will go where you put it.

haha.. I'm more interested in knowing my rifle be zeroed before a shoot and that I'm current behind the trigger before heading out. I wouldn't even notice 0.2 MOA as 90% of my shooting these days is foxes at night using 222 and 204, rarely needing to shoot past 300 meters.

The gear is always up for it so I only need know that I'm capable of sending bullets through a fox

Same here - I dont need bench rest ammo or accuracy to do the job.

[Adlippy]

Cheers everyone for your help, I have just purchased a copy of nick Harvey's book which I will start reading tonight, I now have a lot of info to work through, I have decided, if I go down this path, to start off with a single stage press, I spoke to a couple of stores today,currently in tassie bugging the sh#t out of cherry growers,so have some idea on what the initial outlay would be, have spoken to mate back on the mainland and have warned him our little production line will have to be beer free, once he recovers from that bit of news and the research is completed enough we could be ready to rock and roll, I can see a problem developing with who is going to be the test pilot on the first load, may have to allow a beer or two on that one.

[deye243]

with me it's accuracy 1st then bullet performance then cost 3rd

[tom604]

True enough. My theory is that the better my load and rifle precision the more confident I can be that where I am aiming is where the bullet will go. Probably no point making a round capable of 0.5moa when a 1moa round will do the job 90% of the time but when your shooting at a 2-3" kill zone at 200m, having that confidence in your gear gives you just a little more tolerance if wind conditions put a bit more drift than you expect. Just the way I look at it.

yep, nothing better than knowing your gun is a shooter, that way if you miss you know its your fault

its like when you get a really good group and then you muff one but "its a flyer"