The introduce yourself thread (combined)

General conversation and chit chat - The place for non-shooting specific topics. Introduce yourself here.

Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Baronvonrort » 10 Jan 2016, 11:37 pm

Festus Magnus wrote:Thanks for all the replies!

Mallee: Thanks for the link! I was having a bit of a look at the Annie 1416, although I was a touch worried about using a hunting rifle for target shooting. You're right, I shouldn't worry

Regarding the calibre, the SISC only permits 0.22LR for rifles unfortunately, but I'm pretty happy with this. If ever I decide to experiment with higher calibres - which I probably will at some stage -

For my budget, I've allotted around $2,000 for the rifle alone. I forewent any Christmas pressies! I've had a look at rifles in this approximate price range: Sako Quad Range or Varmint, and the Annie 1416 HB or 64 MPR. I certainly wouldn't mind going cheaper and if a Ruger 77/22, CZ 455 or Savage MKII is a better choice for a beginner, I'll be happy to go with that.

Thanks again!


The Anshutz 1416 with thumbhole stock is the go, it's in your price range the only question is the 23 inch barrel or the 18 inch barrel with muzzle thread , the 1416 uses the 64 action in a repeater you can get 10 round magazines for them, you did mention hunting when you improve skills.

When you get a safe buy one 5x bigger than you think you need,saves upgrading later which all newbies seem to do, they hold half of what is advertised.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by brett1868 » 11 Jan 2016, 12:56 am

Congratulations for joining the shooting fraternity and bringing the old man along with you. Usually the father brings the son but guess it can go the other way, some good quality father and son time awaits yo both.
Don't be overly concerned about brands and prices at this stage, get you license the head out to a few shops and handle as many rifles as possible. Check out they fit you, are they comfortable to shoulder, can you look through the sights while maintaining good cheek position on the stock. Let the rifle choose you :D
Young fella Juststarting has written a blog of his experiences which is both educational and reflects some of the joys and pitfalls of shooting, but he'll have to post the link as I'm on the iPad and can't find it.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by juststarting » 11 Jan 2016, 1:24 am

brett1868 is talking about this: http://myshootingjourney.com/2015/08/26 ... un-permit/

Also, bah! My first choice was a 308 - still happy with it. Granted, since then I have also purchased a 17HMR (and others), but given a choice between the two, rimfire would not even be in a race. Maybe a 223, but that's as small as I would go. That said, 17HMR is lots of fun to shoot. Like brett1868 said, let it chose you :) I don't know why, but I just really dislike the 22 rimfire caliber. It's VERY cheap, but I dislike it. The projectiles look like little penises. You'd sit there and send a barrage of little cheap penises down range... Just feels like a wrong caliber.

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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Title_II » 11 Jan 2016, 2:29 am

You can only shoot .22 at indoor ranges?
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Festus Magnus » 11 Jan 2016, 4:11 am

Thanks for all the responses fellas! Lots of useful tidbits of information to help me while I go ahead (and here I thought the thumbhole was just a decorative addition :oops: ).

Having just read through more of Juststarting's terrific website, a small misapprehension of mine has been cleared up regarding hunting licences. I thought the requirements were similar to sporting clubs, that is, one is required to attend a minimum number of competitions (or hunting trips) per year. This was slightly off-putting, as any rural properties would be a good 4-5 hours drive away from my location in South-West Sydney and would require a large time commitment that might be difficult to reconcile with my schedule (being a university student).

But it seems that one can just join an appropriate hunting club (say the NSW branch of the SSAA) and go for a spot of hunting when they have the available time? If that's the case, then it's far more convenient time-wise and I'll likely join the SSAA and add hunting to my paperwork (if ever AusPost delivers it!).

Edit: A closer trawl through the NSW Police website reveals I'm incorrect! The requirements are 'If you are a member of an approved hunting club you must participate in no less than two events involving hunting, shooting or firearms safety training over any period of 12 months. If you have club membership AND you also have permission to shoot on property for RHVC, clause 96 participation requirements do not apply' and such events 'must be approved by your own hunting club or by any other approved hunting club.'

The term 'approved by your own hunting club' is a bit vague. Do others have a bit more knowledge on what this might entail? Regardless, I think 2 events per year are plenty manageable for me.

"Let the rifle choose you", great advice! It's a fairly personal decision I suppose, and one can't really make up their mind until they sit down with it. The technical specifications and agreement with one's criteria is fairly pointless if it turns out to be wholly uncomfortable for one to hold and shoot.

Juststarting: Pops actually thought the 22LR was actually quite annoying, he thought it sounded like a rowdy bunch of blokes having a lark with Chinese firecrackers. :D But then again he and I have been deceived for a long number of years by guns in action movies!

Title_II: The SISC (Sydney International Shooting Centre) only permits 0.17 HMR, 0.22 Mag/LR. No centrefire permitted unfortunately (I wonder why?).

I've tried to look up the NSW Police website as much as I can to solve this question, and I may well be blind (or quite possibly it's the early hour), but I can't quite seem to find the answer. The question: am I correct in assuming that if you have a category A firearm, and if your licence is granted for both target/sport and hunting purposes, you're permitted to use said firearm for both purposes?

If that's so, I think the first firearm I'll pick up will definitely have to serve both hunting/benchrest purposes. It'll have to be 0.22LR as well, as the club at the SISC which I'm joining doesn't cater to centrefire - and if I read correctly, I won't be able to use a category B hunting rifle at a target range as I don't have a category B target/sport licence.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by juststarting » 11 Jan 2016, 8:26 am

NSW sounds backwards, which is a big statement considering the rest of the Australian gun laws. Also, there is no enforcement, i.e. how would anyone know you went hunting on public land or not? That's the most idiotic requirement there is. Yes officer, I drove to the bush, didn't see anything so came back with all my rounds. Crazy! Granted, you will be shooting A LOT more than twice per year, but still, silly requirement that cannot possibly be validated.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Festus Magnus » 11 Jan 2016, 10:33 am

bentaz wrote:Dont just get a cat A licence. Get a cat A/B. I can almost guarantee that you'll want something bigger in no time.
Also you need to figure a safe into your budget and how ever big you think it needs to be, get one three times that size.


Yeah, I'll have to do a bit more paperwork. The target club which I'll be joining only provides for cat A licences (unfortunately not B as the shooting range doesn't cater for centrefire rifles). Joining the NSW SSAA however, will allow me to sign up for a cat B licence under hunting purposes.

My total budget will be about $4,000-5,000. $2,000 for the rifle, $1000 for the scope, $1000 for the safe, and $1000 for the remaining parts. Although, this is just a fairly basic outline at the moment as I won't be able to purchase a firearm for at least 2 months!

The joys of a bureaucracy!

juststarting wrote:NSW sounds backwards, which is a big statement considering the rest of the Australian gun laws. Also, there is no enforcement, i.e. how would anyone know you went hunting on public land or not? That's the most idiotic requirement there is. Yes officer, I drove to the bush, didn't see anything so came back with all my rounds. Crazy! Granted, you will be shooting A LOT more than twice per year, but still, silly requirement that cannot possibly be validated.


I had a chat with the club captain and apparently they're required to maintain attendance records. You get a slip when you sign into the range, you hand it the club captain, he/she records it. Then they're required to inform the Firearms Registry of any members who haven't maintained satisfactory attendance in a 12 month period. It's a bit like Sunday school really. :lol:

But I don't really know how this quite works with the NSW SSAA and hunting. Do you just call your local club captain and say 'Hey Bob, I'll be poppin' down alone to X to have a poke at a few rabbits, can you sign off my attendance as meeting the requirements?' or do you have to attend group hunts with other members from a local chapter to fulfill the participation requirements? It's a bit of a mystery really: I'll fire off an email to NSW SSAA to have enquire about it.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by brett1868 » 11 Jan 2016, 10:43 am

Festus, Here's the first of many brain aches with the legalities surrounding firearms and shooting in Australia. Each state has different rules & regulations and what's perfectly legal in one sate will see you behind bars in another. In NSW the SSAA is recognised as both a target and a hunting club, when you send off your licensing paperwork include a photocopy of your membership card. Make sure you apply for Cat A & B for both target AND hunting to save you some time and money later on. For attendance requirements you can elect either Target or Hunting when attending a SSAA range. Alternatively you can join (for additional expense) a hunting club where you have to attend at least 2 meetings a year to meet the requirements for keeping the hunting endorsement.
If you get stuck on something with the licensing process send me a PM and ill give you my mob no and talk you through it.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by brett1868 » 11 Jan 2016, 10:53 am

You'd sit there and send a barrage of little cheap penises down range... Just feels like a wrong caliber.


I'll never shoot 22 again without picturing this in my mind. Shooting cats would be very appropriate for a penis shaped projectile :D


On subject of brett1868, Apple shops hold free senior classes, just saying...


Cheeky bugger :lol:
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by juststarting » 11 Jan 2016, 10:57 am

Is NSW REALLY that different? I am very confused with this entire club you are talking about and club captains and what not, sounds like high school... Going in and having a sit down with a shooter... Sounds like bulls**t to me, designed to get you signing up and paying them club fees.

I just filled in few forms, waited and got a rifle. I am not sure where this complexity is coming from.

1. get a deer stalking permit or write purpose as hunting pest animals on public land
2. get Cat A & B licence (NOT just A)
3. you are done!

If your purpose is deer stalking, you need a permit from GMA - the end. You do not need to be in any club. You do not need to be committed to anything.

That's the thing with clubs and something the police officer warned people about at safety course. Clubs like cash and will get pissy and may report you for not attending and paying your fees, if you don't attend, don't pay and set your purpose as 'sport'. Hence use hunting. You can still do sport, you can still compete (I guess), but you do not need to be in any club or even an SSAA member (there is a different thread on this topic). It helps, but certainly not needed. I may be completely off if NSW and VIC are that much different, but in VIC this is it...
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by juststarting » 11 Jan 2016, 10:59 am

Wow, ok, so NSW is that different. My brain hurts a lot now. Just wow, what a mess. I am sorry I caused confusion here, Festus.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by veep » 11 Jan 2016, 11:13 am

Title_II wrote:You can only shoot .22 at indoor ranges?


Cause of zoning and distance requirements blah blah blah at our indoor ranges you can only shoot rimfire rifles and pistols.

Depending on the range rimfire sometimes means .22lr, no magnums.

To shoot centrefire stuff you need to go to an outdoor range, which will have a several KM backdrop and some obstacle like a tall hillside.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Festus Magnus » 11 Jan 2016, 11:46 am

Brett: You're a champ mate! Once the paperwork arrives, I'll be sure to PM if I get hit with a load of bureaucratic nonsense and my brain has an aneurysm (which I'm sure it will).

Juststarting: No apologies needed at all! You've been a great help with all the advice you've given.

Re; the difference in laws, it's actually quite surprising. I was assuming the majority of the laws would be very much the same, especially if it came to something as sensitive as firearms.

Turns out it isn't so! I had a look at the VIC GMA website and you're right, their system is a LOT simpler than the whole twisted labyrinth that NSW employs. It seems that the major difference is that in NSW, it's mandatory for most people (i.e. those who don't have permission from a rural landowner; who don't own any rural property; who aren't employed as a professional hunter) to join a hunting club to actually get a hunting licence.

Moreover, as an additional layer of bureaucratic nonsense in NSW, you can't use a firearm for a purpose that isn't recorded on your licence. So a category A/B firearms licence for hunting purposes in NSW doesn't allow you to visit a range to practice target shooting. To be able to do so (from what I'm reading on the NSW Firearms website), you'll need to include target/sport purposes in your licence, and to be eligible, one needs to be a member of an appropriate target/sport club! Hence Brett's recommendation to have both target/hunting done at once to spare myself any frustration down the line.

My situation is a little more odd, as I'll be applying to two clubs (1) one at the Sydney International Shooting Centre for cat A for the purposes of target/sport; and (2) the NSW SSAA (most likely their St Mary's range) for cat A and B for target/sport and hunting.

Signing up for a club at the SISC seems a bit redundant, but it's a lot closer to home than the SSAA's St Mary's shooting range, and much more convenient for when I want to nip by for some quick practice.

But the Sydney International Shooting Centre doesn't cater for hunting or cat B licences (centrefire rifles are verboten). So that requires me to sign up with the NSW SSAA.

The participation requirements are a bit simpler now that I've managed to decode all the legal-speak: I'll need attend four times a year for practice (apparently participation in competitions aren't mandatory, thank God!) at either club, but I'll need to assign one as the 'principal club'. For hunting, I'll need to attend two events (which can involve 'hunting, shooting or firearms training' as saith the Firearms Registry) at - specifically - the hunting club at the SSAA's St Mary's range.

What a mess. :shock:

I talked to a mate on Sunday: older bloke in his early seventies, had a stint in the army, was stationed in West Germany. He mentioned that his gun licence was granted at his local police station with a brief questionnaire. I bet those were the days. :lol:

Nonetheless, I think I've got a firm grip on how to approach the licence now!
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by brett1868 » 11 Jan 2016, 12:00 pm

You can only shoot .22 at indoor ranges?


St Mary's indoor range (NSW) will let you shoot any caliber you wish with the exception of 50BMG and its derivatives (416 Barrett). The biggest I shoot there is .375 Cheytac which sounds a bit retarded using a 2000m rifle on a 50m range but when load testing its fine. I've asked the boys out there and if I was to rock up with a .460 Weatherby they'd only ask that I give them a shot :)
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by brett1868 » 11 Jan 2016, 12:19 pm

Join the SSAA as a Gold Member but if you're still living at home then you can get an adult membership then each additional person at the same address gets a discount on membership.
You can join online and the Gold Membership gives you up to $25k insurance cover for your firearms for only a few $ extra over base membership.
The SSAA is an association and qualifies as a genuine reason for owning a firearm when applying for your license. It is also recognised as both a Target and Hunting club so no need to join any additional clubs just to get the hunting endorsement.
In short, Join the SSAA then join the sporting clays or rimfire benchrest club in Cecil Park and your done. When you lodge your application for a firearms license they ask for supporting documentation to support your genuine reason, attach a photocopy of the SSAA card and you're good to go.

More Fun....The SSAA is 1 of several organisations that were formed to promote the interests of shooters. Like any organisation they have both fans and detractors of which I'm neither. When I started shooting (legally) back in the 80's there was only the SSAA at Malabar range so I joined them and have remained with them since and I don't get involved in any of the politics between the various organisations.

My best advice for new shooters is that we are all judged by the actions of one so don't be the one who does something stupid. We are ambassadors for our sport and the media want to crucify us so don't do anything that gives them cause to break out the nails and crosses. :D
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Baronvonrort » 11 Jan 2016, 12:46 pm

juststarting wrote:NSW sounds backwards, which is a big statement considering the rest of the Australian gun laws. Also, there is no enforcement, i.e. how would anyone know you went hunting on public land or not? That's the most idiotic requirement there is. Yes officer, I drove to the bush, didn't see anything so came back with all my rounds. Crazy!


NSW is backwards yet not as bad as WA which must be the worst example of our laws.

To hunt on public land you need a Cat R game license, you have to book in online for your hunting

More here-
www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/hunting/hunting-licences/restricted
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Title_II » 12 Jan 2016, 12:55 am

Around here indoor ranges are about 80% pistol caliber only (anything, even in rifle), 20% allow rifle, and 10% allow full auto. But most people shoot at clubs or private land. Clubs are 90% outdoor only, 10% outdoor and indoor. We are crawling with clubs around here. In the nearest 4 or five counties you probably have 2 clubs within 5 miles in every direction. I shoot on private land unless somebody wants to meet at a range/club.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Gwion » 12 Jan 2016, 11:11 am

Here's an idea for you, Festus:
Sako Quad Hunter Synthetic..... then, after you have outgrown (in ability) the capabilities of the light barrel and hunter stock in club shooting, buy a Lilja Heavy Barrel for it and a Sako Target Stock. You now have a benchrest rifle and a hunting rifle... should fall around the $2000 mark (or a little more) for all of the above.

Quad Synth = $1350 ish
Lilja Barrel = $500 ish
Quad Range Stock = ?? enquire through special order @ gun shop??

Or:

Buy this https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=69118
plus this https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=68194
for a total of $2550 and have all your rimfire target/hunting scenarios covered...

Geez i'm good at spending other people's money! :D

Good luck with it all, mate... have fun and stay safe.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jan 2016, 5:35 pm

The reason the states are all different is because the Australian Constitution lists the responsibilities that the federal government has. Everything else is the responsibility of the states and firearms do not get a mention. But printing $ and defence get a mention,, for example. OHS does not get a mention either. So each state and territory has total responsibility for OHS, education, hospitals.

When they wrote the constitution they experts tried to anticipate as best they could but obviously screwed up in a couple of areas.!!!!

Australia also invited NZ to become part of the Commonwealth of Australia but the kiwis were pretty stupid and went off in a tangent!! Bait Bait LOL
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Festus Magnus » 13 Jan 2016, 4:21 am

Thanks for all the further responses fellas!

Gwion: Thanks for the Sako endorsement! I'm edging closer and closer towards it (even though I won't be able to purchase a firearm for another 2 months!). A completely stupid question from a beginner's perspective: you recommend the Quad Hunter, is there any reason for me not to go for the Quad Varmint? While I'm always disinclined to buy into marketing, Sako does advertise the Varmint as being suitable for benchrest/small game hunting (which fits my purposes perfectly).

Also just a small update: paid for membership with the Sydney SSAA, will be paying for SISC membership on Saturday, also sitting the Firearm Safety Qualification Course on Friday!
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Title_II » 13 Jan 2016, 5:36 am

Oldbloke wrote:Australia also invited NZ to become part of the Commonwealth of Australia but the kiwis were pretty stupid and went off in a tangent!! Bait Bait LOL


And now their people still have guns :)
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Gwion » 13 Jan 2016, 6:43 am

Festus Magnus wrote:A completely stupid question from a beginner's perspective: you recommend the Quad Hunter, is there any reason for me not to go for the Quad Varmint?


Mate, to be honest, I only recommend the Sako Quad because I'm still dreaming of one myself. Never heard a Quad owner complain. My last 22lr would have been a Quad but the don't come left handed.
Re: hunter v varmint. Purely a carry weight thing for bunny busting. As I also recommended get a Lilja drop in heavy barrel (Quads are switch barrel rifles), I figured you didn't need two heavy barrels. One for hunting and the Lilja for you bench rest. One or two people here use the Lilja barrels for target work on Quads and swear by them.
All that said, a 'Heavy barrel' on a 22 is still usually pretty light in the greater scheme of things, so I'm sure the varmint would be fine for a bunny buster as well. Also, I was trying to save you a couple of hundred bucks towards th Lilja barrel!
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by MalleeFarmer » 13 Jan 2016, 7:01 am

Title_II wrote:And now their people still have guns :)


:o :shock: yep they were smart not to join!
Funny how their crime rates are lower than ours. 8-)
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by heron » 13 Jan 2016, 11:04 am

Festus Magnus wrote:For my budget, I've allotted around $2,000 for the rifle alone. I forewent any Christmas pressies! I've had a look at rifles in this approximate price range: Sako Quad Range or Varmint, and the Annie 1416 HB or 64 MPR. I certainly wouldn't mind going cheaper and if a Ruger 77/22, CZ 455 or Savage MKII is a better choice for a beginner, I'll be happy to go with that.

At my stage however, is the lack of know-how and all the subtleties that go along with benchrest shooting (and shooting in general!), so I don't have much of a critical eye when it comes to making a better informed buying decision.


If it's for benchrest and you can afford better, do not go cheaper. You'll just end up wanting more accuracy than the cheaper option can provide and swapping to your first choice and wasting money in the change over.

You'd be crazy to get a Ruger over an Anschutz if you can afford one.

An Annie will be capable of more accuracy than you are to start, but your skills will evolve and you'll grow into it.

If you go a cheaper option you'll outgrow it, skill wise.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Festus Magnus » 18 Jan 2016, 10:11 pm

Just a small update!

Did the firearms safety course, passed with no problems at all.

I'm not sure whether it was the instructor himself or the manner in which the third-party company developed the program, but it sure was awful.

Awful in the sense that it just consists of 3-4 hours of the instructor reading off slides, with little demonstration using an actual firearm. The only firearm brought in was a bolt-action rifle, and if the course was going to cover lever-action, pump-action, etc. one would think it also appropriate to at least bring one of each along (unloaded of course!) as a practical demonstration of safe handling.

Stranger even was that two of the blokes in the course hadn't ever shot before, and so when it came time to the brief practical test at the course's end, it was their first time actually handling a rifle. :shock:

Nonetheless, all ready to go with the paperwork, once it actually arrives: had to resubmit a request through the ridiculous online application system for the appropriate paperwork. Why doesn't the NSW Firearms Registry just allow you to download a pdf of the relevant paperwork, rather than require you to request pre-printed forms through their awful online system? There's nothing even special about the forms they provide: no fancy paper, no barcoding/tags to link you with a particular online request. You can't even pop down to your local police station to request the forms.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by juststarting » 18 Jan 2016, 10:24 pm

You get to shoot rifles during the longarms safety course?
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Festus Magnus » 19 Jan 2016, 12:27 am

juststarting wrote:You get to shoot rifles during the longarms safety course?


Oh no, I was a little unclear about that: they brought in one rifle (a CZ 452), but loaded it with dummy cartridges for the purposes of the practical test. We were just in the conference room, each taking turns pointing the rifle at a window, in the imaginary scenario that we were in the field, so the instructor could assess us on various safe handling procedures.

I think only five minutes was given to explaining bolt-action rifles, while another hour was given to a very dry explanation of other actions and ammo types, the sorta general knowledge that anyone with a modicum of good sense could gain from a quick perusal of the internet.

The NSW booklet accompanying the course said that we meant to be shown what to do in the situation of an extraction malfunction with a live cartridge still remaining in the chamber. However, the instructor just said something along the lines of 'stick up your hand and call over a range supervisor.' Wouldn't work so well in the field I'm afraid! :lol:

Overall, it was a pretty disappointing experience. I thought it'd be a lot more practical and practice-oriented, rather than just a long litany of legal sins which one mustn't commit lest the police come knocking down your door. I think it's due more to NSW gov't regulations governing how the test must be run, rather than any inability on the part of the instructor/shooting range. One of the more bizarre regulations we saw on the presentation slides is that the instructor cannot load dummy ammo in plain view of the class. :wtf:
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by juststarting » 19 Jan 2016, 8:48 am

Sounds like a typical safety course. It's not there to teach you about guns, it's there to teach you how not to accidentally shoot someone. There are so many variables that I tend to agree that instructor. Haven't used a gun - go to the range first... Common sense really.
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Wobble » 20 Jan 2016, 2:41 pm

juststarting wrote:It's not there to teach you about guns, it's there to teach you how not to accidentally shoot someone.


I usually find that's good to know :lol:
Weatherby Vanguards in .300 Weatherby Magnum and .243 Winchester
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Re: G'day from a soon-to-be shooter!

Post by Title_II » 20 Jan 2016, 3:46 pm

In my experience, if I shoot you, I meant it about 95 % of the time :) Those are pretty good odds you wre asking for it..
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