Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

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Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by RealNick » 14 Mar 2018, 3:17 pm

Very off topic here, but having no luck finding the answer in Google and know we have a few builders and smart legal chaps here so here goes :)

A fam member has just moved into an apartment building here in Melbourne. At her old building you could go up and down the stairs to get from her apartment's level to he ground and back, which was great for her as they could walk their dog in and out of the complex without having to use the elevator. She's allowed the dog, it just skipped run ins with bitchy neighbours who don't like animals and that kind of thing, avoided potential complaints.

I haven't lived in an apartment complex before, but in thinking back to visits around the place I thought this was pretty standard. For security there is a swipe sensor thing on the ground floor and levels but you can go up and down between your floor and ground as you choose.

At their new building the stairwell access works in a funny way. To our thinking anyway. From any floor you can enter the stairwell and walk down, but only get out on the ground floor. You can't get out on any floor once you're in, and you can get in on the ground floor to walk back up if you're out.

This just seems ridiculous to me as if there is a power outage or an elevator problem you can't get up to your apartment. I would have thought stair access would be mandatory under whatever building or residence code there is.

If it's supposed to be there though I wondered if we could bring it to the attention of whoever managers building code stuff in the Government and they'd instruct the building to install the swipe access things as required.

She'd liked to be able to use the stairs normally, but obviously they're not going to put in swipe pass things at her request so she can use the stairs for the dog. And if she can get it added the other way she doesn't have to be "that tenant" with the pain in the ass request :lol:

Bit of a convoluted story there, hope it all makes sense.

Cheers.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by juststarting » 14 Mar 2018, 3:25 pm

I've only made it half way through your essay, but... It's a security feature. In an event of a fire, you can exit via stairs from any floor, out. However, you are not allowed uncontrolled access to 'not your floor'. Very common.

If there's a power failure or lift failure, I'm sure it will unlock access to floors from ground, just not under normal circumstances.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Mar 2018, 5:10 pm

I think JS is right but still doesnt quite make sense.

"From any floor you can enter the stairwell and walk down, but only get out on the ground floor. You can't get out on any floor once you're in, and you can get in on the ground floor to walk back up if you're out.

Obviously the stair well primary use is fire escape. So she is using it for a "secondary use" if you know what I mean.

But this doesn't make sense as if you used the elevator you would be able to get out at any floor. (unless elevator use is restricted in some way.)

Besides what if there is a fire and your on the 6th floor, you go down the fire escape and it second floor your escape is blocked? In this case your goose cooked.

Australian Building code would tell you & the councils are in control of the implementation. Unfortunately its been privatized. So now we have a problem with flammable cladding on high rise buildings. Who would have thought? :allegedly: Actually very predictable and every dumb bastard in the industry knew it would be an issue but did the government listen.

I would suggest its not right and security is taking priority over safety. Ph the council & make enquiries. (Disclaimer here. A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous) :LOL:
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by juststarting » 14 Mar 2018, 5:15 pm

So the question is: is elevator controlled with a swipe card and has camera in it? That's your answer, OB. If the elevator is free for all and has no surveillance (camera, after the fact) or access control (card, proactive) then it makes no sense. However, I suspect it will have both. And one on the front door too.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by juststarting » 14 Mar 2018, 5:16 pm

Secuity is safety, how is safety being compromised here, OB?
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by agentzero » 14 Mar 2018, 5:23 pm

juststarting wrote:Secuity is safety, how is safety being compromised here, OB?


Not if you're locked in with the fire, eh.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by RealNick » 14 Mar 2018, 5:25 pm

Oldbloke wrote:But this doesn't make sense as if you used the elevator you would be able to get out at any floor. (unless elevator use is restricted in some way.)


Can be, they do some so that your elevator swipe card only lets you go to ground and your floor.
Last edited by RealNick on 14 Mar 2018, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by juststarting » 14 Mar 2018, 5:26 pm

But that's the exact opposite of the setup, no? Besides, if you're locked in with fire, then it's compromised safety and therefore it's not secure ;)
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Mar 2018, 5:26 pm

juststarting wrote:Secuity is safety, how is safety being compromised here, OB?


No argument there JS. Security is important. Its all about the risk level. But If there is a fire and you are trapped between floors your goose is cooked. I would have thought that fire safety would take precedence over security. Especially since fire safety gets pretty high priority in the building code. That was one of the reasons it was developed. There are some very good systems out there and perhaps if there is a fire the card will open the doors on every floor?



I don't know. I would ask the council building department the question(s).

Oh by the way. Just because it's a common practice doesn't mean s**t. Company's and people often break the rules.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by RealNick » 14 Mar 2018, 5:27 pm

juststarting wrote:If there's a power failure or lift failure, I'm sure it will unlock access to floors from ground, just not under normal circumstances.


I reckon you might be being a bit optimistic there :unknown:
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by juststarting » 14 Mar 2018, 5:29 pm

RealNick wrote:
juststarting wrote:If there's a power failure or lift failure, I'm sure it will unlock access to floors from ground, just not under normal circumstances.


I reckon you might be being a bit optimistic there :unknown:


Geeees, I hope not. It'd be dumb design otherwise.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by RealNick » 14 Mar 2018, 5:29 pm

juststarting wrote:But that's the exact opposite of the setup, no? Besides, if you're locked in with fire, then it's compromised safety and therefore it's not secure ;)



Sorry mate I'm lost there, the opposite?
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by Gwion » 14 Mar 2018, 9:02 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Oh by the way. Just because it's a common practice doesn't mean s**t. Company's and people often break the rules.


No!
Really???
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by Gwion » 14 Mar 2018, 9:11 pm

Good discussion.
Haven't actually lived in a building with an elevator; let alone one with a swipe card lift. Does seem to to leave satey compromised for the benefit of paranoid freaks, though.

Way i see it. As long as people can verify identity on entrance then what is the issue?

A camera on the lifts and on the the stair well and no one's security or saftey is going to be compromised. As long as idendity is verified on entrty...
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by juststarting » 14 Mar 2018, 9:32 pm

Oldbloke wrote:But If there is a fire and you are trapped between floors your goose is cooked. I would have thought that fire safety would take precedence over security. Especially since fire safety gets pretty high priority in the building code. That was one of the reasons it was developed. There are some very good systems out there and perhaps if there is a fire the card will open the doors on every floor? .


Eh? In case of fire lifts are shut off. No lifts. Lifts kaput. So off to the stairs you go... I am not sure how you'd get stuck between floors. Why would you be? You're walking down to the ground... Slow and disabled are stashed to the side (funny, but in a dark way, seriously, they are :problem: ).

I don't see how being able to access stairs from ground to your floor and in reverse is a safety issue in any way.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by knowsnothin » 14 Mar 2018, 9:36 pm

i lived in one like this.
i had a key to get out on my floor.

i too thought it was a problem in the event of a fire.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Mar 2018, 9:54 pm

Correct, never use a lift during a fire, power will get cut off and you will be trapped.

I'll amend what I said to clarify.

But If there is a fire and you are trapped (in the fire escape stairs) between floors your goose is cooked.

Therefore you need to have access to all floors from the stairs. Is that clearer JS.


"I don't see how being able to access stairs from ground to your floor and in reverse is a safety issue in any way." I never suggested that.
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by juststarting » 14 Mar 2018, 11:25 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Therefore you need to have access to all floors from the stairs. Is that clearer JS.


Fine! I will give you that one, but only partially. I maintain that it will fail open and unlock doors in case of fire. :friends:
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Re: Apartment stairwell access rules Victoria

Post by Oldbloke » 15 Mar 2018, 5:26 am

"Fine! I will give you that one, but only partially. I maintain that it will fail open and unlock doors in case of fire"

And if it is "fail safe" then fine.
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