Need hot water unit help..

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Need hot water unit help..

Post by darwindingo » 25 Apr 2018, 12:38 am

Ok, I know this is way off the usual gun topics.... But this site has all kinds of people with a wide range of knowledge... :thumbsup:

My hot water service just had a major bowel movement.. It was a Vulcan Hot Shot 135L storage unit.

I'm currently looking at 2 replacement options..

1.. Replace the unit with the same storage unit, easy install...

2.. Replace with a continuous flow unit, extra installation work and cost but would probably pay off in the long run..

The continuous flow unit I'm considering is a Rinnai B26.. As always mixed reviews on the product, :roll: ...

Anyone have any experience / recommendations with this stuff ?..

:drinks:

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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Cryptic » 25 Apr 2018, 1:54 am

Looked at Cont flow myself but then found heat pump systems and got one of them. Cut my usage to 1/3 of what it was.
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by brett1868 » 25 Apr 2018, 2:03 am

I rent, if it breaks I call the real estate agency and let them deal with it :)
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Rod_outbak » 25 Apr 2018, 6:25 am

The Rinnai unit will be a 26 litres per minute unit, which is about as large as they get in the continuous flow HWS.
I would suggest going as large as you can anyway in one of these systems, as it only means anything when you are drawing hot water.

We have a Dux 26LPM Continuous HWS, and it's been fantastic. As long as you have gas, you have endless hot water.
Previously, we had a gas 270 litre HWS, and I reckon this Dux unit has been substantially cheaper over the 7 years since installation.
We run 3 instant gas HWS units here; one on the main house, one on the staff quarters, and one on the shearing quarters ablution block. All are 26L/Min units, and all have been going strong for at least 6 years (Shearing quarters one will be 13 years old this year).
Dont know much about Rinnai as a brand for reliability(also heard mixed reviews).

A few years back, I bought some instant gas HWS units from an online auction(Grays), that were being sold as for a caravan/camping setup. I ended up buying 3 of these units, and gave one to a mate, who needed a quick solution for their shearers quarters. Looking at them, they are all stainless steel and brass, and look to be pretty durable.
It turns out the plumber refused to install these HWS into a dwelling, as it didnt have an AGA (Aust Gas Authority) certificate (Think I have that right). This explained why they were being sold as for camping/caravans; they had no AGA certificate.
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Gaznazdiak » 25 Apr 2018, 7:04 am

Rod_outbak wrote:The Rinnai unit will be a 26 litres per minute unit, which is about as large as they get in the continuous flow HWS.
I would suggest going as large as you can anyway in one of these systems, as it only means anything when you are drawing hot water.

We have a Dux 26LPM Continuous HWS, and it's been fantastic. As long as you have gas, you have endless hot water.
Previously, we had a gas 270 litre HWS, and I reckon this Dux unit has been substantially cheaper over the 7 years since installation.
We run 3 instant gas HWS units here; one on the main house, one on the staff quarters, and one on the shearing quarters ablution block. All are 26L/Min units, and all have been going strong for at least 6 years (Shearing quarters one will be 13 years old this year).
Dont know much about Rinnai as a brand for reliability(also heard mixed reviews).

A few years back, I bought some instant gas HWS units from an online auction(Grays), that were being sold as for a caravan/camping setup. I ended up buying 3 of these units, and gave one to a mate, who needed a quick solution for their shearers quarters. Looking at them, they are all stainless steel and brass, and look to be pretty durable.
It turns out the plumber refused to install these HWS into a dwelling, as it didnt have an AGA (Aust Gas Authority) certificate (Think I have that right). This explained why they were being sold as for camping/caravans; they had no AGA certificate.


I have one of those caravan units, bought it about 10 yrs ago because I live alone and didn't want to run the 4800W 250lt electric that's in the house.
It runs on a gas bottle, the only installation needed was connecting the water and mounting it on the wall of the veranda outside the bathroom.
I've never had a problem with it, the only drawback is flow, only 6lpm, but if you can live with that they are a great invention. I'm on tank water so low flow suits there.
I have no idea how much money it's saved me.
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by bigfellascott » 25 Apr 2018, 9:25 am

I don't really see the point in big instant hot water systems, 9Lpm is what comes out of the pipes so not seeing the point in systems that put out more LPM than that.
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Rod_outbak » 25 Apr 2018, 9:34 am

BFS, perhaps you might need more than one hot tap on at the same time?

We went 26L/PM units, as it reduced the chances of someone stealing all the hot water when you're in the shower, when they turn on the tap in the kitchen.

Given I'm not burning gas until the Hot tap is cracked open, I dont have a problem with the HWS itself being oversized.

Gaznazdiak, I think my caravan units were either 18 or 20 L/PM units. The mate did end up making up some sort of exterior setup for this unit I gave him, and he found it worked really well.
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by bigfellascott » 25 Apr 2018, 10:31 am

Rod_outbak wrote:BFS, perhaps you might need more than one hot tap on at the same time?

We went 26L/PM units, as it reduced the chances of someone stealing all the hot water when you're in the shower, when they turn on the tap in the kitchen.

Given I'm not burning gas until the Hot tap is cracked open, I dont have a problem with the HWS itself being oversized.

Gaznazdiak, I think my caravan units were either 18 or 20 L/PM units. The mate did end up making up some sort of exterior setup for this unit I gave him, and he found it worked really well.


Yeah it would be dependant on how many showers etc you have as to what would be needed but for the average home with 1 bath/shower you won't need to go overboard (that's according to the plumber who came out to our place the other day to discuss this exact subject) I've been thinking of putting in a instant gas system to replace the old gas system which still works fine.

I will say that I'd rather urr on the side of more is better myself. :thumbsup:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by SHEFFO » 25 Apr 2018, 11:11 am

If it's not AGA certified then it is a Class B appliance and the installer needs to be licensed as such, weather that be in a domestic, commercial, or caravan/boat. I am a gas fitter (Type A licence) 15 years in the industry.
Type A appliance basically means the manufacturer has demonstrated that the appliance meets AG601 Standards, and the gas fitter will have a certain level of confidence in the product (which translates to cheaper cost for you, and no liability to you)
Type B appliance means the gas fitter (Type B) has to certify the appliance himself, take on greater responsibility should anything go wrong. (Substantially greater cost to you, still no liability for you should something go wrong)
Install Type B or Type A appliance yourself - Substantially cheaper for you, All responsibility is yours. Weather it be a very big Boom, not flued correctly, incomplete combustion (go tosleep, dont wake up) That last point is particularly important for you Gaznazdiak, being installed on a veranda outside the bathroom -- anywhere near a window?

FWIW, if i had Nat GAs at my place i would have one myself. I don't, so i have electric boosted solar instead.
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Gaznazdiak » 25 Apr 2018, 6:03 pm

SHEFFO wrote:If it's not AGA certified then it is a Class B appliance and the installer needs to be licensed as such, weather that be in a domestic, commercial, or caravan/boat. I am a gas fitter (Type A licence) 15 years in the industry.
Type A appliance basically means the manufacturer has demonstrated that the appliance meets AG601 Standards, and the gas fitter will have a certain level of confidence in the product (which translates to cheaper cost for you, and no liability to you)
Type B appliance means the gas fitter (Type B) has to certify the appliance himself, take on greater responsibility should anything go wrong. (Substantially greater cost to you, still no liability for you should something go wrong)
Install Type B or Type A appliance yourself - Substantially cheaper for you, All responsibility is yours. Weather it be a very big Boom, not flued correctly, incomplete combustion (go tosleep, dont wake up) That last point is particularly important for you Gaznazdiak, being installed on a veranda outside the bathroom -- anywhere near a window?

FWIW, if i had Nat GAs at my place i would have one myself. I don't, so i have electric boosted solar instead.


Thanks Sheffo, yeah it's got plenty of ventilation.
I did confined space and hazardous atmosphere training when I was mining and I'm a little anal about that. I can't imagine having one of these in a van unless modified to be flued through to the outside.

They only use a sniff of gas at 6lpm, a 9kg bottle lasts me over a month. It even has a cutoff timer that shuts off the gas after15min.
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by darwindingo » 26 Apr 2018, 12:32 am

Thanks for the input lads, I really appreciate it.. ( food for thought ) :thumbsup: . That's one of my favorite thing's about this forum,,, Ask any question you could possibly conceive and receive honest responses from people you can trust and respect.... :thumbsup: :friends:

:drinks:

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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Rod_outbak » 26 Apr 2018, 11:55 am

Question:
Bigfellascott; the 9 L/Min limit the plumber refers to, is it a result of restrictors, or is it what the average household plumbing is limited to by pipe diameter?

Reason I ask, is that many of the recent shower head installs we have done the past 5 years, we have found there were water restrictors in the shower heads.
[Some of the smaller shower heads look like they mightnt actually survive if we remove the restrictor, though; some are too lightly built for full water pressure/flow.]

We installed a 'Monsoon' shower head in the main house bathroom, and it worked like crap until we pulled the restrictor out, and now it works fine.
[Our water is supplied from an artesian bore on the property, and so we arent on water restrictions for household use.]
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by bigfellascott » 26 Apr 2018, 1:19 pm

Rod_outbak wrote:Question:
Bigfellascott; the 9 L/Min limit the plumber refers to, is it a result of restrictors, or is it what the average household plumbing is limited to by pipe diameter?

Reason I ask, is that many of the recent shower head installs we have done the past 5 years, we have found there were water restrictors in the shower heads.
[Some of the smaller shower heads look like they mightnt actually survive if we remove the restrictor, though; some are too lightly built for full water pressure/flow.]

We installed a 'Monsoon' shower head in the main house bathroom, and it worked like crap until we pulled the restrictor out, and now it works fine.
[Our water is supplied from an artesian bore on the property, and so we arent on water restrictions for household use.]


Not sure mate, he just mentioned something about 9Lpm is all that comes out of the pipes, whether that's a result of the pipe itself or showerheads etc I can't say. :thumbsup:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by tom604 » 26 Apr 2018, 3:32 pm

make sure that you get one of the key pad temp controls,,didn't have one at first and found it was a pain to get the temp right :thumbsdown: after we got the control pad, all good :thumbsup:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Daddybang » 26 Apr 2018, 3:57 pm

Jeez some of you fellas are spoilt!!!!
This is our hot water system!! Connect a hose and light the gas and ya get all the hot water ya need!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:

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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by bigrich » 26 Apr 2018, 4:15 pm

hey DB, a tinny is part of your bath routine mate ? :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks: :drinks:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Daddybang » 26 Apr 2018, 5:21 pm

Before,during and after mate!!!! :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Bent Arrow » 26 Apr 2018, 5:57 pm

bigrich wrote:hey DB, a tinny is part of your bath routine mate ? :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks: :drinks:


Might be part of his beauty routine
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by bigrich » 26 Apr 2018, 6:34 pm

yeh BA , maybe he fills the tub full of beer ! :lol: :lol: good for the skin DB ? :drinks: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Daddybang » 26 Apr 2018, 8:07 pm

What can I say. ...The more beer I drink the prettier I get!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by Member-Deleted » 26 Apr 2018, 10:48 pm

I had a girl friend that said that to me once ( she was wrong) :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by bigrich » 27 Apr 2018, 4:44 am

Daddybang wrote:What can I say. ...The more beer I drink the prettier I get!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:


yeh, me too mate, me too :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Need hot water unit help..

Post by darwindingo » 09 May 2018, 11:34 pm

Sorry to bump this back up, but we finally have hot water again :D

We ended up going with the Rinnai B26 60 deg continuous flow unit. Went for the 60 deg unit because we like the idea of really hot water for the kitchen when required and the 60 deg unit can be adjusted / programed to achieve up to 75 deg, the 50 deg compliant units wont allow that from what I understand. I should add to install a hot water unit capable of supplying in excess of 50 deg, a tempering valve must be fitted to limit water temp to 50 deg in areas such as bathrooms to be compliant.. Note storage units should always be run at 60 deg or above so nasty things don't grow in the tank... Oh also read something about min temps recommended for washing dishes that also influenced the 60 deg + capable unit decision..

Have to say it's really worth shopping around if anyone is thinking of installing something like this, ended up getting the unit for $830.00 from a supplier (Their trade price) $155.00 cheaper than otherwise quoted for the unit from another supply/install units only supplied by them mob.. Also ended up getting it installed for $490.00 (that's including the $30 for the compliance certificate) so that was $180.00 less than the other mob that quoted $600 install and $70 compliance cert... :wtf:

Also agree with Tom604 that adjusting the temp (although doable) is a bit of a pain without the controller unit.... :thumbsup: I have two in the post on their way now to sort that out $71.00 ea online way cheaper than we found locally (Less than two for the price of one :crazy: ) :drinks: &THX for the recommendation Tom... Seems the controllers will also make the unit run more efficiently, logically no point heating the water hotter than required at the time and then cooling it down by adding cold water :crazy:

There are certainly other options like the solar assisted setups etc.. that would be even more efficient to run, however they are considerably more expensive from what we looked at.. No doubt be worth it in the long run but more than we wanted to spend at this time.

Anyhoo..

Thanks again to all..

:drinks:

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