Trust me. .I'm a copper!!!

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Trust me. .I'm a copper!!!

Post by Daddybang » 31 May 2018, 6:42 am

Vicpol caught faking 250k rbt's!!!!!
(Abc news)
And they reckon lafo's can't be trusted :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Post by Gaznazdiak » 31 May 2018, 7:44 am

There have always been those who support the death penalty for some crimes, myself included, but with the level of incompetence and downright bastardry seemingly growing in the various police forces, the chances of some kuntstubble fitting you up to get a result on his record is just too high.
I like the part of the article where the senior cop says it was to fill the quotas they all insist they dont have.
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Post by Daddybang » 31 May 2018, 8:11 am

Yep I agree totally. :drinks:
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Post by Wylie27 » 31 May 2018, 8:52 am

Sounds like it was a protest by the beat cops against the quotas.

If thats the case then Good on them!
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Post by Daddybang » 31 May 2018, 9:21 am

Wylie27 wrote:Sounds like it was a protest by the beat cops against the quotas.

If thats the case then Good on them!


Unfortunately if coppers fake anything it raises the question of what else they're willing to fake to achieve a result. If this is a protest imo they'd be better off coming out in public through their union and exposing the quota's that the hierarchy insist don't exist. :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Post by Growler » 31 May 2018, 11:32 am

Getting their quotas increases the $ each police department receives from the Federal Govt. Now if I falsified documents for any form of monetary gain i would find myself fronting the magistrate on fraud charges...............................................
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Post by bladeracer » 31 May 2018, 11:36 am

What amazes me is their view that there's no fraud involved. These guys sat around for hours taking taxpayer money for blowing bubbles when they were supposed to be out doing police work!

They didn't sit around doing this for the giggles, they did it because it benefited them to do it.
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Post by AusTac » 31 May 2018, 12:51 pm

Same as usual, shock horror when found out, announce a few investigations, announce how to fix the problem, pat themselves on the back for a job well done and sweep it under the carpet
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Post by marksman » 31 May 2018, 2:47 pm

bladeracer wrote:What amazes me is their view that there's no fraud involved. These guys sat around for hours taking taxpayer money for blowing bubbles when they were supposed to be out doing police work!

They didn't sit around doing this for the giggles, they did it because it benefited them to do it.


+1
its the way they get the extra funding,
no different to how schools or old folk homes get it by lying about or exaggerating the quota's
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Post by darwindingo » 31 May 2018, 3:54 pm

Read this in one article,

"The head of Victoria Police’s Professional Standards Command, Assistant Commissioner Russell Barrett, said that it’s likely that the widespread faking had to do with meeting quotas:

There could be a number of reasons but the main rationale I believe is to hide or highlight productivity. Whatever reason our workforce may come up with, it isn’t acceptable.

Barrett has said that due to the fact that this sort of faking means these tests are simply being done in the absence of a driver, no drivers would have wrongfully received penalties from the falsified results – although that would still mean that motorists that otherwise would have been actually tested and potentially caught driving over the limit, were not."

I don't mind the concept of police having quotas, provided they only apply to things like the number of tests to be administered or license checks to perform within a period and not for how many infringements to issue.

Logically if the claimed number of breath tests had legitimately been administered, its possible that one or more drunk drivers that potentially went on to cause fatalities may have been detected. Having known several people killed from drunk drivers, that pisses me off the most... Shame on them... :thumbsdown: :evil:
Last edited by darwindingo on 31 May 2018, 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sergeant Hartman » 31 May 2018, 4:14 pm

I think... yet again we (media especially) is looking at the symptom not the real issue. I suppose it's very easy for a manager to make kpi and keep "stats" to say how wonderful they are doing things even though the stats are meaningless. It gets worse when the kpi are made by outside agencies or ppl who don't have any real world experience. (In this case apparently TAC).

In the case of cops it's all too easy to blame speed or drink driving (or similar simple reason) for the cause of every accident and then create rules where cops waste their time doing speed checks or breath tests when the real reason will always be more complicated like not driving to the conditions or fatigue (I suppose fatigue is harder to detect).

Added to that instead of serving and protecting the public or governments have made cops more into tax collectors.

Thus these ppl under pressure from management to do XYZ number of breath tests... do what any normal human will do...fudge or skimp. Yes you can call them dodgy but I think I rather blame their managers and politicians getting them to do this work instead of what they should be doing
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Post by No1Mk3 » 31 May 2018, 4:37 pm

OK Folks,
To be blunt, there are no such things as quotas. Period. But having said that, and this comes from a Senior Sergeant with Traffic Operations, every type of offense has an average, and if a patrol or operation falls below average so be it, a quiet shift. But if anyone consistently turns in a below average their Sergeant is going to ask them to explain, are they working or parking up for a snooze? The pressure is on to perform to or above the average, such pressure comes from Gumbiment making statements to the public about how many tests are being done, to Command pushing this nonsense of "Productivity", to Regional Inspectors looking to polish their performance with an eye on the next Assistant Commissioners job. Ziad's post is on the money, Cheers.
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Post by Daddybang » 31 May 2018, 4:49 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:OK Folks,
To be blunt, there are no such things as quotas. Period. But having said that, and this comes from a Senior Sergeant with Traffic Operations, every type of offense has an average, and if a patrol or operation falls below average so be it, a quiet shift. But if anyone consistently turns in a below average their Sergeant is going to ask them to explain, are they working or parking up for a snooze? The pressure is on to perform to or above the average,


Fair enough but if they are willing to fudge the figures because the pressure is on what are (some) willing to fudge when the pressure is on to solve a crime :unknown: :unknown: :unknown: :drinks:
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Post by darwindingo » 31 May 2018, 5:05 pm

Ziad wrote:I think... yet again we (media especially) is looking at the symptom not the real issue. I suppose it's very easy for a manager to make kpi and keep "stats" to say how wonderful they are doing things even though the stats are meaningless. It gets worse when the kpi are made by outside agencies or ppl who don't have any real world experience. (In this case apparently TAC).

In the case of cops it's all too easy to blame speed or drink driving (or similar simple reason) for the cause of every accident and then create rules where cops waste their time doing speed checks or breath tests when the real reason will always be more complicated like not driving to the conditions or fatigue (I suppose fatigue is harder to detect).

Added to that instead of serving and protecting the public or governments have made cops more into tax collectors.

Thus these ppl under pressure from management to do XYZ number of breath tests... do what any normal human will do...fudge or skimp. Yes you can call them dodgy but I think I rather blame their managers and politicians getting them to do this work instead of what they should be doing


Should they not be testing drivers and trying to get drunk drivers off the road ? Seems like a fairly reasonable thing to be doing to me.

If not, who do you think should be tasked with that job ?

Or is it just the balance of this task vs other important tasks that you are getting at ?

:drinks:
Last edited by darwindingo on 31 May 2018, 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Accidental Discharges” DO NOT OCCUR !!

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Post by Growler » 31 May 2018, 5:19 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:OK Folks,
To be blunt, there are no such things as quotas. Period. But having said that, and this comes from a Senior Sergeant with Traffic Operations, every type of offense has an average, and if a patrol or operation falls below average so be it, a quiet shift. But if anyone consistently turns in a below average their Sergeant is going to ask them to explain, are they working or parking up for a snooze? The pressure is on to perform to or above the average, such pressure comes from Gumbiment making statements to the public about how many tests are being done, to Command pushing this nonsense of "Productivity", to Regional Inspectors looking to polish their performance with an eye on the next Assistant Commissioners job. Ziad's post is on the money, Cheers.


Plenty of coppers on the radio this am saying that there are most definitely "quotas". Maybe some describe these as "averages". Regardless the fudging of numbers to gain grubberment funding is pure and simple fraud. The officers on the ground shouldn't be held solely accountable though. The need to fudge numbers, comes from higher up the food chain, weather implied or otherwise
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Post by bladeracer » 31 May 2018, 5:37 pm

darwindingo wrote:
Ziad wrote:Thus these ppl under pressure from management to do XYZ number of breath tests... do what any normal human will do...fudge or skimp. Yes you can call them dodgy but I think I rather blame their managers and politicians getting them to do this work instead of what they should be doing


Should they not be testing drivers and trying to get drunk drivers off the road ? Seems like a fairly reasonable thing to be doing to me.

If not, who do you think should be tasked with that job ?

Or is it just the balance of this task vs other important tasks that you are getting at ?


The entire point of the article is that these officers are not doing the job at all, they're sitting on their arses fudging figures to make it look like they're doing the job...
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Post by darwindingo » 31 May 2018, 5:53 pm

bladeracer wrote:
darwindingo wrote:
Ziad wrote:Thus these ppl under pressure from management to do XYZ number of breath tests... do what any normal human will do...fudge or skimp. Yes you can call them dodgy but I think I rather blame their managers and politicians getting them to do this work instead of what they should be doing


Should they not be testing drivers and trying to get drunk drivers off the road ? Seems like a fairly reasonable thing to be doing to me.

If not, who do you think should be tasked with that job ?

Or is it just the balance of this task vs other important tasks that you are getting at ?


The entire point of the article is that these officers are not doing the job at all, they're sitting on their arses fudging figures to make it look like they're doing the job...


Yes and I'm not suggesting otherwise regarding the 25 k tests in question. I was just trying to get clarification regarding the "this work instead of what they should be doing" part of Ziad's post.

:drinks:
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Re: Trust me. .I'm a copper!!!

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 31 May 2018, 6:34 pm

What I meant was instead of having KPIs (say quotas) that they are judged by... decrease the bureaucracy and let them actually spend more time doing real policing.

What we need is more visible police presence. OB the road and when requested. A good example, a couple years ago we'r were having a party and a friend was turning into our driveway and got hit by oncoming car. We called the cops and told them that the outthey person was drunk, and guess what no one showed up
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Post by bladeracer » 31 May 2018, 9:00 pm

Ziad wrote:What I meant was instead of having KPIs (say quotas) that they are judged by... decrease the bureaucracy and let them actually spend more time doing real policing.

What we need is more visible police presence. OB the road and when requested. A good example, a couple years ago we'r were having a party and a friend was turning into our driveway and got hit by oncoming car. We called the cops and told them that the outthey person was drunk, and guess what no one showed up


The problem is that our current Police force no longer serves the community, they're all tied up trying to turn ordinary people into criminals because it's far easier to convict us and they make more money out of us. Real criminals cost too much to chase down and prosecute, and if they convict them then they cost money to house. The rest of us get busted for speeding 2km over the limit, parking five minutes too long, having a loose .22LR rolling around the back of the ute, etc, pay our fines (to pay the prosecutors' salaries) and save up for the next ridiculous offence to be enacted. Last year Victoria brought in a law to make it legal for a motorcycle rider to take one foot off the footpeg to stretch his leg - WTF? The implication is that Police have been busting so many riders for stretching their legs that they had to make a new law!
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Post by Stix » 31 May 2018, 11:45 pm

I just had a moment of lesdixia...

A quick glance at the thread title & i thought this was a topic about Cooper rifles being trustworthy... :lol:
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Post by Daddybang » 01 Jun 2018, 6:28 am

Good on ya stix!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Post by wanneroo » 01 Jun 2018, 7:07 am

bladeracer wrote:
Ziad wrote:What I meant was instead of having KPIs (say quotas) that they are judged by... decrease the bureaucracy and let them actually spend more time doing real policing.

What we need is more visible police presence. OB the road and when requested. A good example, a couple years ago we'r were having a party and a friend was turning into our driveway and got hit by oncoming car. We called the cops and told them that the outthey person was drunk, and guess what no one showed up


The problem is that our current Police force no longer serves the community, they're all tied up trying to turn ordinary people into criminals because it's far easier to convict us and they make more money out of us. Real criminals cost too much to chase down and prosecute, and if they convict them then they cost money to house. The rest of us get busted for speeding 2km over the limit, parking five minutes too long, having a loose .22LR rolling around the back of the ute, etc, pay our fines (to pay the prosecutors' salaries) and save up for the next ridiculous offence to be enacted. Last year Victoria brought in a law to make it legal for a motorcycle rider to take one foot off the footpeg to stretch his leg - WTF? The implication is that Police have been busting so many riders for stretching their legs that they had to make a new law!


That seems to be the main interest of police in Australia now is harassing the general populace with ninny nonsense stuff to generate revenue.

No surprise the Victoria Police would get caught doing this. They lost the plot a long time ago.

I have to say I am quite the militant anti drunk driver, but the RBT checkpoints in Australia to me are a waste of time and money and it harasses the general public. Why are we blowing into a tube if I don't look or act or smell of alcohol?
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Post by Gaznazdiak » 01 Jun 2018, 10:55 am

Daddybang wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:OK Folks,
To be blunt, there are no such things as quotas. Period. But having said that, and this comes from a Senior Sergeant with Traffic Operations, every type of offense has an average, and if a patrol or operation falls below average so be it, a quiet shift. But if anyone consistently turns in a below average their Sergeant is going to ask them to explain, are they working or parking up for a snooze? The pressure is on to perform to or above the average,


Fair enough but if they are willing to fudge the figures because the pressure is on what are (some) willing to fudge when the pressure is on to solve a crime :unknown: :unknown: :unknown: :drinks:


Damn right!
A lot of people tend to hold the naive belief that police, and prosecutors, will always act in a 100% legal, honest way but there have been at least 13 cases in the 20th century, that we know of, of people jailed for murders they didn't commit.
How many more are there, fitted up with lesser charges that never reach the public eye?

The institutional dishonesty we are seeing in this case may not be a serious miscarriage of justice, but it speaks to a general feeling in police forces that being seen to be "doing the job" is more important to them than getting it right.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... #Australia

https://www.timebase.com.au/news/2017/A ... ticle.html
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Post by Sergeant Hartman » 02 Jun 2018, 5:45 pm

Blade I completely agree with you on that. That's what I mean the cops are forced to become extra tax collectors. And don't get me started on citylink.... that's the biggest con currently basically we paying on average 4k in tax into private company coffers..... but while media cries about politician A wasting 1k on getting their dog chauffeured no one complains about signing us up for 30 years of this tax

And I heard that they can now concre you if any part of your body is outside the car...I like to rest my arm on the window and get a breeze in.... natural air conditioning
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Post by Daddybang » 05 Jun 2018, 7:33 am

Ziad wrote:And I heard that they can now concre you if any part of your body is outside the car...I like to rest my arm on the window and get a breeze in.... natural air conditioning


That's been the law for years. I copped a fine drving through ballina in 98 for having my elbow outside the car!! :drinks:
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Post by trekin » 05 Jun 2018, 8:29 am

Daddybang wrote:
Ziad wrote:And I heard that they can now concre you if any part of your body is outside the car...I like to rest my arm on the window and get a breeze in.... natural air conditioning


That's been the law for years. I copped a fine drving through ballina in 98 for having my elbow outside the car!! :drinks:

Copped the same, back in the late '70,s, middle of winter, 5 degrees outside, windows up, heater blasing away, three witnesses in car, had arm resting on door inside closed window, 17 yo driving panel van. Nothing said about passenger in the back of van unrestrained.
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Post by Sergeant Hartman » 05 Jun 2018, 9:11 pm

Fk this is fun police at its worst honestly... i reckon it's the next best feeling to actually riding a bike.... plus save petrol and make environment better as less pollution not running the ac
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Post by Tiger650 » 06 Jun 2018, 6:50 pm

Much intelligent comment and much of that pissed off at the smoke and mirrors BS that is modern government.
I am wondering why Vicroads [or whatever today's name is] is doing paying Vicpol to do RBT ?
This smacks of bureaucratic empires within govt.
Modern Govt, particularly in Victoria, is a very self absorbed entity, bloody La-La land writ large.
Federally we see the state lavishly funding "socially progressive" non govt "think tanks" [Grattan Institute for one] to gin up new ways to fleece us of our hard earned.
Sugar tax ? what a splendid idea, we can sell that one to the proles !
Napoleon once stated to the effect that there was no such thing as poor soldiers, only poor Generals, that is true but do not hold your breath waiting for any of the bloody apparatchiks to be held accountable.
My sympathies to the General Duties Copper who would rather keep tabs on the local criminals than do an RBT quota.
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Post by Tiger650 » 07 Jun 2018, 7:32 pm

And this ex WA's finest.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-07/p ... ap/9845200
That would be their version of our Traffic Operations Group I reckon.
Our TOG includes jail tatt bogans who relish the "authority" and see lying to fit up a motorist as SOP.
Shades of the NSW Highway Patrol where many years back I was booked [quiet guilty] by a bloke who stepped out of his "Interceptor" dressed in motorcycle leggings, jodhpurs, leather jacket and leather cap and mirror sunglasses.
He plainly lived in a cartoon.
Quiet probably he was justifiably bashed at High School for being a Dobber and rather than absorb the lesson and mend his ways he made it a profession, the small trappings of power and authority delegated to him by grubs whose malevolence he could never understand would gratify his a deficient soul.
Two years back I got fitted up for $350.00 and 2 points by a shrewish female Victoria TOG thing, across the web of her left hand, which she proudly displayed across my drivers side door sill was a crude tattoo B.O.H.I.C.A .
To the initiated that is a crude ghetto message Bend Over Here It Comes Again.
s**t like that is a symptom of the arrogance of the state, to hire someone who would not be patronized in a low brothel and given the Glock and authority of the state speaks volumes of their contempt for ordinary folk.
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Post by Member-Deleted » 10 Jun 2018, 11:07 am

Ziad wrote:I think... yet again we (media especially) is looking at the symptom not the real issue. I suppose it's very easy for a manager to make kpi and keep "stats" to say how wonderful they are doing things even though the stats are meaningless. It gets worse when the kpi are made by outside agencies or ppl who don't have any real world experience. (In this case apparently TAC).

In the case of cops it's all too easy to blame speed or drink driving (or similar simple reason) for the cause of every accident and then create rules where cops waste their time doing speed checks or breath tests when the real reason will always be more complicated like not driving to the conditions or fatigue (I suppose fatigue is harder to detect).

Added to that instead of serving and protecting the public or governments have made cops more into tax collectors.

Thus these ppl under pressure from management to do XYZ number of breath tests... do what any normal human will do...fudge or skimp. Yes you can call them dodgy but I think I rather blame their managers and politicians getting them to do this work instead of what they should be doing


Well said :thumbsup: unrealistic expectations on those in the field by chair warmers. :thumbsdown:
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