Shooting on mining lease

[Crankbro]

G’day I’m just wondering what are the laws surrounding doing vermin control on a mining lease . I have permission from the company on there tenements for wild dogs etc . There’s no production mining just empty tenements . Is it still classified as Crown land or if permission is given its no problem?

[ChrisPer]

Almost certainly the land is also used for production as pastoral leasehold; ie a station grazing cattle or sheep. You need the permission of the station holder to shoot, the mining company can't give shooting permission for the station.

I note you said 'mining lease'; there are a number of different kinds of tenement you might be describing. if the station is excluded from the lease, the area of the mining lease you should be OK but I would get in touch with the station holder and tell them exactly what is going on, and ask permission for the station as well cause that would be best!

[animalpest]

If the mining lease is on Crown Land (UCL) then you either work under the approvals of the mining company, which puts your safety requirements under the Mines Inspection and Safety Act and regulations. These are quite onerous and You need the same safety stuff as a mine would.

Alternatively you have their permission just to be there but you then must work within the Crown Land requirements which prohibits the use of firearms.

You cannot have both.

[1886]

G’day I’m just wondering what are the laws surrounding doing vermin control on a mining lease . I have permission from the company on there tenements for wild dogs etc . There’s no production mining just empty tenements . Is it still classified as Crown land or if permission is given its no problem?

The pastoralist has the complete say re shooting over his lease. A mining company/prospector have to advise the Pastoralist at all times of their intentions and there are areas they are not permitted to encroach on and to also take additional measures to prevent, fire, damage to trees or other property and to prevent damage to any property or livestock by the presence of dogs, the discharge of firearms, the use of vehicles or by other means etc.

Almost certainly the land is also used for production as pastoral leasehold; ie a station grazing cattle or sheep. You need the permission of the station holder to shoot, the mining company can't give shooting permission for the station.

I note you said 'mining lease'; there are a number of different kinds of tenement you might be describing. if the station is excluded from the lease, the area of the mining lease you should be OK but I would get in touch with the station holder and tell them exactly what is going on, and ask permission for the station as well cause that would be best!

The only area of a pastoral station that is not held under a pastoral lease is a defined area comprising the homestead and nearby outbuildings etc as this area is held in freehold title by the pastoralist. Mining tenements do not override a pastoralists overall lease so you always need the pastoralists permission especially if a tenement is not being used.
A mining company cannot give outright permission as this always rests with the pastoralist but they can advise they have no objections.

I am aware of a situation a few years ago where a mining company employed a shooter to manage dingo's around the mine as they were acting aggressive towards the workers but this was also with the pastoralists approval.

The situation you are actually referring to will require the pastoralist approval and given the circumstances I would suspect there would be no real objection to controlling dingo's as pastoralists have a statutory obligation to manage vermin over their lease, unless he has his own management arrangement already in place.

[animalpest]

Actually on mining leases has full ability to do what they want without having to seek approval from the pastoralist. It it clearly written in the mining Act in WA that the mining leases has full rights if enjoyment over their lease.

Mining leases take precedence over pastoral leases for any mining related activities including conservation or protection of their employees from dingo threats, but do not prohibit the pastoralist from doing pastoral things. If he/she goes into an active mining areas then they are subject to the mines OH&S requirements.

And yes, we do it all the time.

[1886]

Can you link the section of the Mining Act that gives this unequivocal ability for a miner to do what they want on a Pastoral Lease.

[Crankbro]

Great information guys this is exactly what I’ve looking for in relation to this

[duncan61]

We have a dog problem through the Gascoyne and Pilbara.If you have been given permission from the mine management system go for it.The chance of running in to the pastoral lease people is remote and they should not care.Even better if you have a property letter from the mine

[1886]

..........If you have been given permission from the mine management system go for it. The chance of running in to the pastoral lease people is remote and they should not care. Even better if you have a property letter from the mine

Duncan, mate no offence but those points you make are totally irresponsible and moreso on a shooting forum as some may take it as gospel not to mention other outside parties may assume we all hold the same views. To suggest that as there is only a remote chance you may run into the station owner but if you do he should not care is not advice that should be quoted on this forum.

animalpest hasn't also responded so I will spell it out.

That is totally wrong advice as mining company officials DO NOT have any powers to permit shooting on Crown land, which also consists of pastoral stations. That is restricted to the station owner or in some cases his station manager.

For information. hereunder is a excerpt from a document produced by WA Dept of Mines entitled "Restrictions over Crown land" for miners information.

" It is an offence to use firearms on a pastoral lease. The Land Administration Act 1997 under Offences on Crown land, section 267 (2)(h) states: ‘A person who, without either the permission of the Minister or reasonable excuse – discharges any firearm or other weapon on Crown land, commits an offence and is liable to a penalty of $10,000 and, in the case of an offence of a continuing nature, to a daily penalty of $200’.

Penalties also apply under the Firearms Act 1973 for carrying firearms across or using firearms on pastoral leases without pastoralist consent.

As I indicated above pastoralists are bound by a statutory requirement to manage and control vermin on their lease thus they are the only ones permitted to allow the use of firearms. They are also permitted to apply for and carry a handgun for rogue stock control purposes.

https://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Minerals/What ... -2425.aspx

Also contrary to what animalpest indicated there are a host of situations that inhibit miners from certain activities on pastoral leases to the extent the mining and pastoral bodies produced a pamphlet to assist miners re their responsibilities. Not something that you would expect miners to do if they "has full ability to do what they want without having to seek approval from the pastoralist" as animalpest advised.

http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Documents/Mine ... Leases.pdf

However, notwithstanding the above there is an exception that some of the very large miners have taken to allow them to have more freedom on a pastoral lease, they buy it. There are approx 440 pastoral leases in WA and of those 36 are owned by mining companies and the reason is to obtain total control as otherwise they do not have the ability to do what they want without seeking approvals.

https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/342 ... al-leases/

So Crankbro, unless the tenements you refer to are wholly owned/leased by the mining company don't go for it as Duncan suggests. Permission from the mining company to shoot on their vacant tenements means squat and if you bump into the station owner you could be on the way to having a large court debt and later probably a visit from WAPOL to collect your firearms. Mate, always seek the pastoralists permission first.

[Crankbro]

..........If you have been given permission from the mine management system go for it. The chance of running in to the pastoral lease people is remote and they should not care. Even better if you have a property letter from the mine

Duncan, mate no offence but those points you make are totally irresponsible and moreso on a shooting forum as some may take it as gospel not to mention other outside parties may assume we all hold the same views. To suggest that as there is only a remote chance you may run into the station owner but if you do he should not care is not advice that should be quoted on this forum.

animalpest hasn't also responded so I will spell it out.

That is totally wrong advice as mining company officials DO NOT have any powers to permit shooting on Crown land, which also consists of pastoral stations. That is restricted to the station owner or in some cases his station manager.

For information. hereunder is a excerpt from a document produced by WA Dept of Mines entitled "Restrictions over Crown land" for miners information.

" It is an offence to use firearms on a pastoral lease. The Land Administration Act 1997 under Offences on Crown land, section 267 (2)(h) states: ‘A person who, without either the permission of the Minister or reasonable excuse – discharges any firearm or other weapon on Crown land, commits an offence and is liable to a penalty of $10,000 and, in the case of an offence of a continuing nature, to a daily penalty of $200’.

Penalties also apply under the Firearms Act 1973 for carrying firearms across or using firearms on pastoral leases without pastoralist consent.

As I indicated above pastoralists are bound by a statutory requirement to manage and control vermin on their lease thus they are the only ones permitted to allow the use of firearms. They are also permitted to apply for and carry a handgun for rogue stock control purposes.

https://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Minerals/What ... -2425.aspx

Also contrary to what animalpest indicated there are a host of situations that inhibit miners from certain activities on pastoral leases to the extent the mining and pastoral bodies produced a pamphlet to assist miners re their responsibilities. Not something that you would expect miners to do if they "has full ability to do what they want without having to seek approval from the pastoralist" as animalpest advised.

http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Documents/Mine ... Leases.pdf

However, notwithstanding the above there is an exception that some of the very large miners have taken to allow them to have more freedom on a pastoral lease, they buy it. There are approx 440 pastoral leases in WA and of those 36 are owned by mining companies and the reason is to obtain total control as otherwise they do not have the ability to do what they want without seeking approvals.

https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/342 ... al-leases/

So Crankbro, unless the tenements you refer to are wholly owned/leased by the mining company don't go for it as Duncan suggests. Permission from the mining company to shoot on their vacant tenements means squat and if you bump into the station owner you could be on the way to having a large court debt and later probably a visit from WAPOL to collect your firearms. Mate, always seek the pastoralists permission first.

Thanks mate, I think what you have said is the most conclusive bit of advice I have heard concerning this matter .

[animalpest]

I haven't replied sooner because - surprise surprise - I was running a firearms course for one of the big miners.

Actually 1886 you are partly right. It was a comprehensive post by you which was terrific.

Some of what you have referenced is for "Miners Rights" which is different to to a Mining Tenement or lease. Prospectors Licence, Exploration Licence and Mining Lease all have differing obligations and rights. A miners right allows you to go over pastoral lease but you must abide by and notify the pastoralist. If you are on Crown land and are prospecting, you do not have a right to shoot on this land just because you have a miners right. A Mining Licence has different rights.

You will note that the comment that "mining company officials DO NOT have any powers to permit shooting on Crown land" is also correct. They do however, have the right to conduct their mining activities, which can also include shooting within the Mine Lease, even on Crown land. The requirement that "‘A person who, without either the permission of the Minister or reasonable excuse" and for the average Joe Blow, that is correct for the purposes of using a firearm on UCL. However, a "reasonable excuse" is where a miner requires firearms to be used for the purposes of employee safety, conservation or environmental management which could be for shooting damaging or otherwise pest species.

The comment that " pastoralists are bound by a statutory requirement to manage and control vermin on their lease thus they are the only ones permitted to allow the use of firearms" is incorrect. Yes, they have a statutory obligation to control declared pests under the Bio-security and Agriculture Management Act. But just because they do doesn't prohibit others from using firearms and that in itself does not abrogate them from compliance with the Firearms Act or any other law. Certainly the WA Firearms Act states that you cannot carry a firearm on land used for primary production without "express or implied consent" - Firearms Act s.23 (10a). Again, the law states that "without reasonable excuse" so it is not absolute, and in some circumstances under other Acts there is an excuse.

Under the Mines Act, a miner on a Mine Lease may "do all acts and things that are necessary to effectually carry out mining operations in, on or under the land" and "is entitled to use, occupy, and enjoy the land in respect of which the mining lease was granted for mining purposes".

Note also that mines have a responsibility for environment on their mine lease. That can also include managing declared pest animals that have a negative impact on native fauna or workers safety. And sometimes this can be a Ministerial obligation under their mine licence. This then allows them to "do all acts and things that are necessary to effectually carry out mining operation".

Fairly recently, a mine wanted us to control a pest animal. That required approval from DPIRD (formerly the WA Department of Agriculture) to use those poisons under permit from DPIRD The mine was on freehold land, which you should note is different to a pastoral lease. The DPIRD officer was under the impression that the mine required approval from the freehold land owner and that person was responsible for the permit. After reviewing the legislation under different laws (by lawyers), it was without question found that the mine had the authority to undertake control of pest animals by any means even if the land owner objected if that was required or considered necessary for their mining operations. (Going out doing a "yippee shoot" on goats/dogs/rabbits etc is not "necessary" for mining and there are restrictions).

Of course, as I said in a previous post, using a firearm (or poison or whatever) on a mine makes your safety aspects subject to the onerous requirements of the Mines Safety and Inspection Act. The pastoralist who enters an active mine must also do the same. A pastoralist who runs around an active mine site shooting without the approval of the mine could also fall foul of the law. Safety procedures, Job Hazard Analysis, access, PPE are all required under law.

As you can imagine, (very) big mining companies have looked into the legalities of this on both pastoral and UCL and we have been doing this in these circumstances for a very long time.

So you cannot shoot on UCL just because it has a mining right or you are prospecting. Ditto applies to pastoral lease. But under a mining licence, you can if you are undertaking this on behalf of the mining company on an active mine but you must comply with the safety aspects related to mining and it must be necessary. (They would need to engage you I would think so you are covered under the law.) A mine does not need to get approval or notify a pastoralist that they are shooting, (but it would be good policy to do so for safety sake). And similarly a pastoral lessee or owner of freehold land does not have authority to go anywhere or do everything on an active mine site - and the mine is required under some circumstances to compensate the owner/lesser for these losses.

If your shooting on a mine lease that overlays a pastoral lease and the shooting is not necessary for the mine, then you would indeed need to get approval from the pastoral lessee or their agent. And shooting on UCL is the same. So 1886 is partially correct. A letter from the mine for you to do a yippee shoot or shoot where there is no benefit for the mine wouldn't cut it legally. They are giving you authority to be on the mine but that's it.

Oh, and I spent nearly 20 years responsible for various pest animals on a State-wide basis with the WA Department of Agriculture so I have knowledge from both camps.

I hope this helps clear this up.

[1886]

You seem to have missed the point that Crankbro was enquiring as to non productive mining, ie empty tenements so much of what you are quoting are moot points. Using possible interpretations of law in support of comments that may or may not apply is also irrelevant.

The comment that " pastoralists are bound by a statutory requirement to manage and control vermin on their lease thus they are the only ones permitted to allow the use of firearms" is incorrect. Yes, they have a statutory obligation to control declared pests under the Bio-security and Agriculture Management Act.

No, the statutory requirement for pastoralists is in the Land Act that they must control declared pests and in accordance with requirements of the Bio-security and Agriculture Management Act, ie if a bustard is declared a pest then they must also take appropriate action.

What part of “a person who, without either the permission of the Minister or reasonable excuse – discharges any firearm or other weapon on Crown land, commits an offence …..” do you not understand in relation to Crankbro's enquiry.

Many of your points are speculative but lets leave it at that as Crankbro knows he needs to get the pastoralists permission as his miners letter has no authority whatsoever.

Oh, and by the way I spent nearly 15 years in the Department of Lands Crown Land Division that also encompassed the Pastoral Lands Board.

[animalpest]

Actually none of my points are speculative. They are interpretations of the law by government agencies and mining company lawyers.

So the Land Act requires materialists to control declared pests IN ACCORDANCE with the BAM Act. Yep, I know that having spent 20 years actually enforcing it and it's previous Act. But the BAM Act defines what that control requirement is, so it is the definitive obligation. The Land Act simply restates that which is in the BAM Act in that land owners includes pastoral lease and they must control declared pests.

You would be aware of who manages UCL and the OP wanted to know about mining tenements and Crown Land.

As I said, under the Mines Act the miner can also control pests. And yep, they can put conditions on the pastoralist or freehold owner of land.

And next week I will be on a mining site that is onUCL and quite legally shooting. The week after on multiple mine sites on pastoral land using a firearm.

[Crankbro]

I haven't replied sooner because - surprise surprise - I was running a firearms course for one of the big miners.

Actually 1886 you are partly right. It was a comprehensive post by you which was terrific.

Some of what you have referenced is for "Miners Rights" which is different to to a Mining Tenement or lease. Prospectors Licence, Exploration Licence and Mining Lease all have differing obligations and rights. A miners right allows you to go over pastoral lease but you must abide by and notify the pastoralist. If you are on Crown land and are prospecting, you do not have a right to shoot on this land just because you have a miners right. A Mining Licence has different rights.

You will note that the comment that "mining company officials DO NOT have any powers to permit shooting on Crown land" is also correct. They do however, have the right to conduct their mining activities, which can also include shooting within the Mine Lease, even on Crown land. The requirement that "‘A person who, without either the permission of the Minister or reasonable excuse" and for the average Joe Blow, that is correct for the purposes of using a firearm on UCL. However, a "reasonable excuse" is where a miner requires firearms to be used for the purposes of employee safety, conservation or environmental management which could be for shooting damaging or otherwise pest species.

The comment that " pastoralists are bound by a statutory requirement to manage and control vermin on their lease thus they are the only ones permitted to allow the use of firearms" is incorrect. Yes, they have a statutory obligation to control declared pests under the Bio-security and Agriculture Management Act. But just because they do doesn't prohibit others from using firearms and that in itself does not abrogate them from compliance with the Firearms Act or any other law. Certainly the WA Firearms Act states that you cannot carry a firearm on land used for primary production without "express or implied consent" - Firearms Act s.23 (10a). Again, the law states that "without reasonable excuse" so it is not absolute, and in some circumstances under other Acts there is an excuse.

Under the Mines Act, a miner on a Mine Lease may "do all acts and things that are necessary to effectually carry out mining operations in, on or under the land" and "is entitled to use, occupy, and enjoy the land in respect of which the mining lease was granted for mining purposes".

Note also that mines have a responsibility for environment on their mine lease. That can also include managing declared pest animals that have a negative impact on native fauna or workers safety. And sometimes this can be a Ministerial obligation under their mine licence. This then allows them to "do all acts and things that are necessary to effectually carry out mining operation".

Fairly recently, a mine wanted us to control a pest animal. That required approval from DPIRD (formerly the WA Department of Agriculture) to use those poisons under permit from DPIRD The mine was on freehold land, which you should note is different to a pastoral lease. The DPIRD officer was under the impression that the mine required approval from the freehold land owner and that person was responsible for the permit. After reviewing the legislation under different laws (by lawyers), it was without question found that the mine had the authority to undertake control of pest animals by any means even if the land owner objected if that was required or considered necessary for their mining operations. (Going out doing a "yippee shoot" on goats/dogs/rabbits etc is not "necessary" for mining and there are restrictions).

Of course, as I said in a previous post, using a firearm (or poison or whatever) on a mine makes your safety aspects subject to the onerous requirements of the Mines Safety and Inspection Act. The pastoralist who enters an active mine must also do the same. A pastoralist who runs around an active mine site shooting without the approval of the mine could also fall foul of the law. Safety procedures, Job Hazard Analysis, access, PPE are all required under law.

As you can imagine, (very) big mining companies have looked into the legalities of this on both pastoral and UCL and we have been doing this in these circumstances for a very long time.

So you cannot shoot on UCL just because it has a mining right or you are prospecting. Ditto applies to pastoral lease. But under a mining licence, you can if you are undertaking this on behalf of the mining company on an active mine but you must comply with the safety aspects related to mining and it must be necessary. (They would need to engage you I would think so you are covered under the law.) A mine does not need to get approval or notify a pastoralist that they are shooting, (but it would be good policy to do so for safety sake). And similarly a pastoral lessee or owner of freehold land does not have authority to go anywhere or do everything on an active mine site - and the mine is required under some circumstances to compensate the owner/lesser for these losses.

If your shooting on a mine lease that overlays a pastoral lease and the shooting is not necessary for the mine, then you would indeed need to get approval from the pastoral lessee or their agent. And shooting on UCL is the same. So 1886 is partially correct. A letter from the mine for you to do a yippee shoot or shoot where there is no benefit for the mine wouldn't cut it legally. They are giving you authority to be on the mine but that's it.

Oh, and I spent nearly 20 years responsible for various pest animals on a State-wide basis with the WA Department of Agriculture so I have knowledge from both camps.

I hope this helps clear this up.

Fantastic mate ,this information is invaluable

[duncan61]

Did you go shooting Crankbro

[Crankbro]

Did you go shooting Crankbro

Not yet , still waiting from the pastoral lease holder .

[Lithgow 303]

Hey guys I've come across a property with what Landgate have reported as an exploration licence on it. If I own the freehold can I still use my firearms. Regards