Have American gun laws gone too far

[Title_II]

I've spent ~$500 on 9V batteries for the smoke alarms in my homes and apartments over the past 25 years or so. Not one of them has ever done me a damn bit of good.

The seatbelt in my car has never saved me from a crippling or deadly injury.

I've never found myself suddenly in water against my will, and yet I can swim.

I guess the threat against me is minimal with respect to house fires, serious automobile accidents, and drowning. Perhaps I should not have prepared for such potentialities.

But I can tell you this. I will not be victimized by assailants bearing overwhelming force. I will make my own decision in the face of evil. How often does that come up? It comes up every single day. I walk through the lands erect, as a Free Man. And every person knows a Free Man when they see one, and every person knows a subject when they see one, and every person knows a victim in waiting.

[cavok]

Sorry I need to respond to the above.

I do not wish to get into a bun fight with our fellow American friends, however NOT all states allow the carry of weapons, so only in most states would what you wrote apply. Let me also say, I am no victim, never was never will be. I don't need an AR15 or Glock to be a free person. I walk erect and look others in the eye, I am free, white and 21. ++. In many American cities and towns there is little issue, in most, not all there is little to be concerned about.

Should the time ever come when it is needed here, action will be taken to address the situation, as free people, proud people and responsible people.

[Title_II]

I don't know what a bun fight is but I don't want one either You do not have to apologize to me, we are exchanging ideas, not arguing or insulting one another.

I do find it interesting that you keep mentioning people cannot carry in all states in the US. The number is 3, soon to be 2. Out of 50. And I avoid those three for now.

Because they are not free.

When there is only one state left in the US where you cannot carry will you tell me it doesn't matter because of that?

I have to go to bed now, but let me explain a little more. There are moral, philosophical, and practical aspects to this frame of mind. I am not saying you are a wimp because you cannot carry any weapon whatsoever for self defense. Not you specifically.

"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." - Jefferson.

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind."

One curious thing that comes up in the US is the fact that violent crime dropped in states after carry laws were passed over the last 30 years. Does it mean something? Does it mean nothing? I don't know. Proponents of gun rights will say it is because criminals are fearful of armed citizens. There is probably something to that. but if there is any causal connection, I think it is something else.

In New York City a man beat another man's brains out with a hammer on a subway. There were 40 people, mostly men, on that subway car. None of them did a darn thing. Twice that I know of, years apart. Another man beat a man's brains out with a hammer on a subway. Nobody did anything. There is only one place in America something so terrible can happen - New York City. Why? Because it is a city of 8 million sheep. It is illegal to defend yourself by almost any means. Anything you do requires permission from the government. If anything bad happens you should call them and hide in a corner. And after generations of that, you get a big squirming mess of sheep and cows.

And I think that is why crime drops when people carry. I don't think it is the guns. I think subjects and slaves tend to be victimized, and Free Men tend maintain society.

Anyway, good to hear you hold your head high and have it screwed on straight. Now take your batteries out of your smoke detector and stop using your seatbelt. You are man enough not to need such things You know I had to bring that part back up

[cavok]

A most interesting reply from Title_II. Be he asleep or not when you wake my retort.

""When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." - Jefferson.
I do not wish to degrade Jefferson, however I do not agree with his assessment as to the above quote. When Government fear the people, that is not liberty, you have an Insurrection or open conflict, possibly may need to change the Government. Neither state of the above should apply, people get on with their lives, Governments govern.

""One curious thing that comes up in the US is the fact that violent crime dropped in states after carry laws were passed over the last 30 years. Does it mean something? Does it mean nothing? I don't know. Proponents of gun rights will say it is because criminals are fearful of armed citizens. There is probably something to that. but if there is any causal connection, I think it is something else.""
If what the above is correct why does the Mayor of New York or Governor not then follow other states??
Actually it should be legislated into Federal law that all states are equal, what is lawful in one state cannot be illegal in another, but that's the world we live in.

""In New York City a man beat another man's brains out with a hammer on a subway. There were 40 people, mostly men, on that subway car.. And after generations of that, you get a big squirming mess of sheep and cows.""
It happens here to, actually if you study Psychology you will note it is the norm, people turn their heads, sad but true. Every now and again a different person without the use of a firearm will step in and end it. Police quickly advise that that was a brave act but never to take the action that was taken, but to call police, I often laugh at that stupid response, but what else can the police say.
PS, I also purchase batteries for my smoke alarm, and from what I read seat belts are not mandatory in America, I would never wear a seat belt and frequently do not, but that's another story. I also reverse into parking spots and have the interior light disabled. Have a great day.

[Khan]

I like it! I say give the people back their rights to protect themselves with firearms instead of relying on someone eventually turning up with a gun!

"When seconds count the Police are just minutes away"

Comforting isn't it...

[Pennsylvania Yank]

I don't need an AR15 or Glock to be a free person.

Well, you are most certainly a free person if you alone are the one who decides you don't need them to be a free person.

[cavok]

I like it! I say give the people back their rights to protect themselves with firearms instead of relying on someone eventually turning up with a gun!

"When seconds count the Police are just minutes away"

Comforting isn't it...

I posted a new item yesterday; What if law changed: Seems like the people who read that post do not share our concern for self defence or the right of the citizen to protect themselves. Most are happy with the Status as it is.

[cavok]

Well, you are most certainly a free person if you alone are the one who decides you don't need them to be a free person.

I did say I don't need a Glock etc, this is not the same as if I could I would carry, especially in some places.

[anthillinside]

I posted a new item yesterday; What if law changed: Seems like the people who read that post do not share our concern for self defence or the right of the citizen to protect themselves. Most are happy with the Status as it is.

I'm not happy with the status quo but ....

I think it boils down to "we just don't trust each other" {probbably with good reason}

I don't think I carry myself, too much responability(sort of)

But I'd be happy knowing some one "sensible, reliable, depedable" and a lot of other words ending in ible was close by was carrying.

OH does that mean I want 500% more police... mmmm ... no.

I've seen a few that I wouldn't trust.

So who and how do we decide who gets to carry?

Even you have commented on the palor state of some pistol shooters.

I don't have the answers, and I have put plenty of thought into it.

So until some one comes up with a workable solution we just stick with what we have i guess.

[Khan]

Most are happy with the Status as it is.

And if they're happy good for them. I mean that.

But it doesn't give them the right to dictate what's acceptable for others, discarding that they feel unhappy in the process.

[vonfram88]

The estimates from 2013 would suggest that 3-4% of the Australian population hold firearms licenses. If we remove the under-18 demographic who are not eligible, then it would be fair to say that in a statistically random sample of Australian adults, at least 5%, or one in 20 individuals in any room are LAFO. This would be deemed a "significant" number in any analyses in any field.

Why then do we seem to suffer erosion to our freedom and allow the hopolophobes to steal from us with barely a whimper of protest?

Let's have a look at an interesting number from the most recent Census in Australia. These are numbers collected and validated by the ABS and not refuted by anyone in the Federal Government;

People who responded as living in same sex relationships: 0.6% of the population.

Folks, that's 6 people per 1000 who belong to that particular minority group. Where I live in progressive WA, the census number shows that 3-4 people per 1000 belong to that minority group.

More than 120 separate pieces of legislation have recently passed through the houses of rabble in Canberra to address "inequality" or "oppression" issues that affect 6 out of every 1000 Australians. The GLBT movement is very effective, however the public resources that are diverted towards that cause are excessive and disproportionate. Sexual preference has somehow become a "human right".

It's time for LAFO to consider their preference to participate in the hunting and shooting lifestyle, free from oppression, as a human right. Find a GLBT who is also LAFO and use them to stir up hysteria in Canberra. Christine Mills will then proclaim firearms to be a sacred as dolphins and AR-15s are essential for the mental health and feelings of well being in GLBT communities.

[cavok]

vonfram88,

What you write is great, and of the 730,000 licensed individuals who hold rifle, shotgun and pistol license between them own 2.7 million firearms. This figure is almost the same number that were around when little Johnny Howard took many of our firearms away. Yes many in Melbourne, and I mean thousands, like in Sydney and elsewhere matched through the streets, still we lost what we all owned with pride. Hence our cause was just, its the other 95% of the voting public agreed with Little Johnny. Gradually since those days our numbers again grow, but the human rights of some minority appears to be what it's all about.

We appear to be the Lepers in the colony, we appear to not be the down trodden. Guess we can thank the stupid United Nations and other do-gooders for that. It appears everyone has rights except firearm owners. Not sure where we go from here, just keep plugging away.

[vonfram88]

Well, just look at Canberra if want to know how to fix things. We have a senate with lunatics holding the balance of power and what is effectively a reverse passage of bills. Some prawn in the senate is able to cause wholesale amendments and back tracking in the lower house.

If we're going to have crazies in this inverse parliament, why not get some more of our own crazies in there next fed election?

With more than 5% of the adult population holding a firearms license, I'm sure we can get at least two or three. Set up a guns for dykes party and get another five in the senate. Then we can hijack the economy until we get our SKS back.

[inventurkey]

Why then do we seem to suffer erosion to our freedom and allow the hopolophobes to steal from us with barely a whimper of protest?

I think the Antis have got time on there side.

Nothing else to do with their lives so they've got all day every day to be vocal with their crap and seem like it's a big thing.

Everyone else is busy just getting on with their life.

[pajamatime]

We are Australians...due to the deep impression left behind by hoplophobists crazed rantings and laws essentially have left a somewhat undesirable skidmark on what we perceive as "suitable". Don't get me wrong in Australia there should be a difference in suitability based purely on the criminal element types we get (nothing like America).

for example Australia has not got the same level of gang, drug, general crime, mental health issues like America has hence I couldn't justify kitting my self out to the extreme. in Australia a decent calibre pistol, rifle, shotgun would do just fine.

in America on the other hand...the Gang problem alone is pretty full on which that in itself could possibly justify packing more heat then the average australian lol
All I'm trying to say is that there are two different enviroments that require two different reasonings.

[Korkt]

All I'm trying to say is that there are two different enviroments that require two different reasonings.

Dunno why we're always comparing ourselves to America TBH. Surely we can think for ourselves.

Or with our politicians, perhaps not.

[Norton]

They're too busy thinking of themselves.