Property Letters

[animalpest]

So section 11A requires a written letter for land to hunt and shoot on.

I presume the Police have considered the safety aspects of various calibres relative to that land. I guess you would need to demonstrate that a calibre is safe if you don't agree with the coppers opinion?

So that is genuine reason. What about genuine need?

And it doesn't say it must be a primary producer, just "land".

[ZaineB]

So section 11A requires a written letter for land to hunt and shoot on.

I presume the Police have considered the safety aspects of various calibres relative to that land. I guess you would need to demonstrate that a calibre is safe if you don't agree with the coppers opinion?

So that is genuine reason. What about genuine need?

And it doesn't say it must be a primary producer, just "land".

well youve said it there "police have considered the safety aspect of various calibers", as noble as they might see their actions they are still superfluous to law. They are still deciding they are arbiters when they are not, they are not employed to do so, and in almost no other section of law are they even allowed to deviate from the letter of the law but it seems when it comes to picking on shooters its open slather.

No one needs to (according to law) agree with or disagree with Police as that is aside from the law, the law does not state a minimum land size, therefore there is no minimum land size, the law does not dictate what kind of shooting is required to be carried out, therefore police have no place dictating that either (animals per caliber etc), the act says that recreational shooting is a genuine reason, pest control and hunting have nothing to do with that, therefore the caliber restrictions are not only arbitrary but against the act itself, If I want a 458lott for "plinking" then that is a genuine reason.

Likewise the Regulation in section 6 do not list or deliver sufficient evidence of the aforementioned being incorrect.

[animalpest]

Most every person who "enforces" a law makes decisions but rarely are they "arbitrary" (i.e.based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system).Whether to caution, prosecute and so forth. Most need to send it upstairs but Police officers can make judgement calls on that.

In interpreting and applying the law, every agency has policies on these. I guess that is what you need to fight.

[ZaineB]

Most every person who "enforces" a law makes decisions but rarely are they "arbitrary" (i.e.based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system).Whether to caution, prosecute and so forth. Most need to send it upstairs but Police officers can make judgement calls on that.

In interpreting and applying the law, every agency has policies on these. I guess that is what you need to fight.

youre partially correct, however what they are doing is enforcing things that are not legislated. this is literally the equivalent of charging you with drug possession for having panadol or booking you for speeding for going 90kmh in a 110kmh zone.

[animalpest]

Yeah get what you are saying

[Faedy]

Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?

I thought they were closer to $300, despite not allowing you to actually shoot on the property.
I've heard that Police do follow up, but I don't have first-hand experience of such.
Probably a question better asked of the dealer selling it, and also worth making a call to the property owner.

You could try getting a NSW R-licence or a Victorian game licence and tell them you travel to hunt over here? Being WA though, I'd be very impressed if they considered that to be reasonable.

I can tell you WAPOL definitely do (sometimes) follow up. I submitted a letter from my brother-in-law who runs 18,000+ acres and the local police asked him about my bone-fides when they crossed him in the street. Very low-key, like do you know this bloke? What's the connection? That sort of level.

Ive given out dozens of letters to people, and never once been contacted by Police...and that is in 30 yrs

[two_stroke]

Reviving a sorta old thread here. However, seems letters from LGS and Kalbarri SA are getting knocked back in recent times. Makes things difficult for those with access to property just under the property letter size limits for their chosen calibre.

[animalpest]

Most every person who "enforces" a law makes decisions but rarely are they "arbitrary" (i.e.based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system).Whether to caution, prosecute and so forth. Most need to send it upstairs but Police officers can make judgement calls on that.

In interpreting and applying the law, every agency has policies on these. I guess that is what you need to fight.

youre partially correct, however what they are doing is enforcing things that are not legislated. this is literally the equivalent of charging you with drug possession for having panadol or booking you for speeding for going 90kmh in a 110kmh zone.

Sort of correct but you miss a couple of important points.

Firstly, s11 allows the Commissioner to have an option not to grant approval if (b) it is not desirable in the interests of public safety.

Secondly, under s11A (1) the Commissioners opinion can be required to show a genuine reason to acquire.

Thirdly, while you (rightfully) state the genuine reasons under s 11A (2) they must be considered with s 11A (1).

And lastly, 11A (3) the Commissioner must be satisfied that the particular firearm can be reasonably justified.

So the simple view that you have a property letter and want to shoot recreational has merits, but are subject to the Commissioners opinion on a number of points.

While their are many posts on this forum about "public servants" making opinions and decisions that not specifically written in law, the only way to challenge these "opinions" is in SAT or the courts. You/we can only challenge the reasonableness of the decision, but I doubt you will get far challenging whether the Commissioner can make decisions.

[Faedy]

So what properties/ stations are still giving out letters that satisfy the popo?

[animalpest]

So what properties/ stations are still giving out letters that satisfy the popo?

Many do. Its whether they are making it part of their "business model" appears the issue.

[Bazz]

So what properties/ stations are still giving out letters that satisfy the popo?

Well I was reading this week that Ella Valla has been sold to Twiggy to turn into a wind and solar farm. Not sure if that means the end to the .50BMG holidays but interestingly they are still selling property letters. Would be good to know if one can still venture for a shooting holiday up there...

[Barbarian]

Just spoke to the clerk at my LGS, apparently the reason for Kalbarri SA letters being knocked back is “in the interests of public safety” and they were told it was the sheer number of letters being used for the given property size.

Ella Valla’s letters are still good.

[bladeracer]

Just spoke to the clerk at my LGS, apparently the reason for Kalbarri SA letters being knocked back is “in the interests of public safety” and they were told it was the sheer number of letters being used for the given property size.

Ella Valla’s letters are still good.

Is there an actual law that makes it illegal for ten thousand shooters to use one property if they choose too?

[Barbarian]

Is there an actual law that makes it illegal for ten thousand shooters to use one property if they choose too?

Nothing in the act. I think it’s just the Commissioner and his delegates using their authority to deny applications.

And even if it’s not against the law, internal policy can effectively make it so.

[deye243]

I still scratch my f****** head and ask myself why any so-called free Australian would live in a state like Western Australia should be torn off the country and pushed all the way to fukin Africa

[Barbarian]

I still scratch my f****** head and ask myself why any so-called free Australian would live in a state like Western Australia should be torn off the country and pushed all the way to fukin Africa

Though the future of shooting in WA might be uncertain given the state Gov't shafting us with the current Firearms Ammendment Bill

I've been shooting in WA since I could legally get my firearms license and even before that with my old man.

WA Might be the worst state in terms of applying the dreaded Appearance Laws but there are other things going for the state.

Cat C for IPSC/Clay Target
No license or membership duration required for Collectors License for Cat A/B/C/H(Pre 1946)
Fully legal for unlicensed persons and minors to shoot the Licensee's firearms under direct supervision (something that is a violation in some jurisdicitions)
No Mag Limit on Cat A/B (Though WAPOL don't like ar16/m16 mags, once your licensed you can get whatever)

We have to deal with high license fees and no PTA system but moving out of state isn't a form of protest, its capitulation.

[bladeracer]

I still scratch my f****** head and ask myself why any so-called free Australian would live in a state like Western Australia should be torn off the country and pushed all the way to fukin Africa

Though the future of shooting in WA might be uncertain given the state Gov't shafting us with the current Firearms Ammendment Bill

I've been shooting in WA since I could legally get my firearms license and even before that with my old man.

WA Might be the worst state in terms of applying the dreaded Appearance Laws but there are other things going for the state.

Cat C for IPSC/Clay Target
No license or membership duration required for Collectors License for Cat A/B/C/H(Pre 1946)
Fully legal for unlicensed persons and minors to shoot the Licensee's firearms under direct supervision (something that is a violation in some jurisdicitions)
No Mag Limit on Cat A/B (Though WAPOL don't like ar16/m16 mags, once your licensed you can get whatever)

We have to deal with high license fees and no PTA system but moving out of state isn't a form of protest, its capitulation.

Victoria has CatC for clay competition but only on a medical certificate.

In WA you can't actually use your firearms held on a Collector's Licence, here we can at least use them at club events. We can also transfer them to our CatA/B licences, for the $10 cost of a PtA, and take them hunting if we want to, or to our CatH licence and shoot some competitions.

Yes, WA allowing supervised shooting on private property is outstanding, but heavily outweighed by their other restrictions.

Mag limits are way over-emphasised I think. I had big mags for my 10/22 when I was a kid and rarely used them, too heavy and bulky to carry in the field, too damned fiddly to load them fully. Much better to just carry five 10rd mags. I have 25rd .22LR mags that are restricted to 10rd and 15rd, trying to load fifteen rounds is sufficient to remind me how painful loading the 25rd mags were. In CatB I don't think most shooters have any interest in loading 30rd mags for hunting purposes, they're really just useful for doing mag dumps for fun, and perhaps IPSC competition. I'd rather carry some 10rd mags (my hunting rifles use AICS 10rd mags).

I lived in WA more than half my life, as a shooter it's the worst state other than ACT.
Here in Victoria we have public land to shoot on, whenever we feel the urge, no permits, no bookings.
If I see a CatA/B firearm I like, I pay the $10 permit and very likely take it shooting the same afternoon, perhaps the following day.
I don't need to come up with ridiculous property letters to buy a rifle, for properties that probably won't even allow me to shoot on them despite paying $300 or more for a letter saying I can. I don't need a worthless property letter for a 5000 acre property to buy a .223 rifle that I only ever plan to shoot on my own 25 acre property.
If my neighbour wants to borrow one of my rifles for a few weeks he can do so, and he's allowed to buy and possess the ammunition for it.
I don't need to have extra gun safes to store my ammunition, and I don't need to lock up my components until I actually turn them into ammo.
I can have folding stocks on my hunting rifles to make them less cumbersome in the bush.
And WA is the only state that doesn't recognise other states' registrations. How this is of any benefit at all leaves me dumbfounded, all it does is incentivise away any interest in visitors wanting to come and spend their dollars hunting and shooting in WA, unless they pay the $54/month temporary registration fees (it seems this has gone up to $86 now?).

I can't recall if WA is one of the states that regulates barrels, can I have a selection of different barrels for a shotgun for example or do you need a permit there for each barrel?

A WA licence is $309 for one year, with a $61 renewal after that ($614 over five years). Plus a $221 fee for licencing additional firearms.
In Victoria a CatA/B licence is $284 for five years, with permits for additional firearms costing $9.20.

I would suggest that if everybody left WA, the government there can implode trying to regulate itself, and then free people can go back and return it to the state it used to be.

[Barbarian]

Victoria has CatC for clay competition but only on a medical certificate.

In WA you can't actually use your firearms held on a Collector's Licence, here we can at least use them at club events. We can also transfer them to our CatA/B licences, for the $10 cost of a PtA, and take them hunting if we want to, or to our CatH licence and shoot some competitions.

Mag limits are way over-emphasised I think. I had big mags for my 10/22 when I was a kid and rarely used them, too heavy and bulky to carry in the field, too damned fiddly to load them fully. Much better to just carry five 10rd mags. I have 25rd .22LR mags that are restricted to 10rd and 15rd, trying to load fifteen rounds is sufficient to remind me how painful loading the 25rd mags were. In CatB I don't think most shooters have any interest in loading 30rd mags for hunting purposes, they're really just useful for doing mag dumps for fun, and perhaps IPSC competition. I'd rather carry some 10rd mags (my hunting rifles use AICS 10rd mags).


I can't recall if WA is one of the states that regulates barrels, can I have a selection of different barrels for a shotgun for example or do you need a permit there for each barrel?

I would suggest that if everybody left WA, the government there can implode trying to regulate itself, and then free people can go back and return it to the state it used to be.

I shoot my Benelli m4 at IPSC whenever possible, its one reason I'd never consider leaving the state.

We can shoot collector's firearms at approved events, used to be fairly regular that the WAAAS Held shoots but there was some semi-recent issues with the Comissioner's approval - thats in the process of being resolved.

Mag limits matter to me when I'm shooting a PRS match. Being able to run a MDT double stack round with an extended baseplate for 16-17 rounds total. Or a

Yeah barrels are licensed separately, I just bought another shotgun when I wanted something longer.

Fee's suck, thats been a trend in WA forever.

I'm not having a go at you directly Blade, Moving interstate just isn't a practical solution for allot of people. Also as I collect combat shotguns, getting to shoot the crown jewel of my collection regularly on the clock is great, Something I can't do in most other states.

[Diamond Jim]

Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?

Yes, they do follow up. My family has around 60,000 acres of property and when I applied for a cat-b rifle with a support letter, a local policeman stopped my brother-in-law in the street of a wheatbelt town to ask if he knew me.

[bladeracer]

That's news to me, I'm sure the WA Firearms Act states pretty succinctly that firearms held on a Collector's licence can never be fired, I'll have to read it again when I have a chance. here there are a lot of Collector club events so we could pretty well shoot most of our Collector firearms fairly regularly, assuming you're content to use them only at clubs and ranges, that does nothing for me so I wouldn't be.

I understand about moving, shooting has to be a very important part of your life, but it is for me (I have spent twice the amount on firearms since moving here than it cost to buy my house and land in Perth in 1994), which is why Victoria is _so_ much better. WA has tons of money though, roads are much better, infrastructure is better, life is easier, the standard of living is better, work is plentiful, and incomes are higher (and there are less smokers!). It has a lot going for it, if you're willing to let the government dictate what you can do. I would much rather be free to grab a rifle out of my reasonably extensive collection and head for the bush (public land here is still free for the use of the public) whenever the impulse takes me, than be free to use a Benelli at club events when somebody else schedules it. But, I grew up with semi-auto rifles/guns and pump guns, so they don't have any novelty value to me. I can understand why some younger people are willing to let the government allow them to use them under very restricted circumstances. Personally, I would prefer IPSC adapt to using firearms that are readily available in our environment, it is supposed to be _practical_ competition after all. IPSC is the most fun you can have with handguns though, did it for 13 years in Perth.

Victoria has CatC for clay competition but only on a medical certificate.

In WA you can't actually use your firearms held on a Collector's Licence, here we can at least use them at club events. We can also transfer them to our CatA/B licences, for the $10 cost of a PtA, and take them hunting if we want to, or to our CatH licence and shoot some competitions.

Mag limits are way over-emphasised I think. I had big mags for my 10/22 when I was a kid and rarely used them, too heavy and bulky to carry in the field, too damned fiddly to load them fully. Much better to just carry five 10rd mags. I have 25rd .22LR mags that are restricted to 10rd and 15rd, trying to load fifteen rounds is sufficient to remind me how painful loading the 25rd mags were. In CatB I don't think most shooters have any interest in loading 30rd mags for hunting purposes, they're really just useful for doing mag dumps for fun, and perhaps IPSC competition. I'd rather carry some 10rd mags (my hunting rifles use AICS 10rd mags).


I can't recall if WA is one of the states that regulates barrels, can I have a selection of different barrels for a shotgun for example or do you need a permit there for each barrel?

I would suggest that if everybody left WA, the government there can implode trying to regulate itself, and then free people can go back and return it to the state it used to be.

I shoot my Benelli m4 at IPSC whenever possible, its one reason I'd never consider leaving the state.

We can shoot collector's firearms at approved events, used to be fairly regular that the WAAAS Held shoots but there was some semi-recent issues with the Comissioner's approval - thats in the process of being resolved.

Mag limits matter to me when I'm shooting a PRS match. Being able to run a MDT double stack round with an extended baseplate for 16-17 rounds total. Or a

Yeah barrels are licensed separately, I just bought another shotgun when I wanted something longer.

Fee's suck, thats been a trend in WA forever.

I'm not having a go at you directly Blade, Moving interstate just isn't a practical solution for allot of people. Also as I collect combat shotguns, getting to shoot the crown jewel of my collection regularly on the clock is great, Something I can't do in most other states.

[Barbarian]

That's news to me, I'm sure the WA Firearms Act states pretty succinctly that firearms held on a Collector's licence can never be fired, I'll have to read it again when I have a chance. here there are a lot of Collector club events so we could pretty well shoot most of our Collector firearms fairly regularly, assuming you're content to use them only at clubs and ranges, that does nothing for me so I wouldn't be.

I understand about moving, shooting has to be a very important part of your life, but it is for me (I have spent twice the amount on firearms since moving here than it cost to buy my house and land in Perth in 1994), which is why Victoria is _so_ much better. WA has tons of money though, roads are much better, infrastructure is better, life is easier, the standard of living is better, work is plentiful, and incomes are higher (and there are less smokers!). It has a lot going for it, if you're willing to let the government dictate what you can do. I would much rather be free to grab a rifle out of my reasonably extensive collection and head for the bush (public land here is still free for the use of the public) whenever the impulse takes me, than be free to use a Benelli at club events when somebody else schedules it. But, I grew up with semi-auto rifles/guns and pump guns, so they don't have any novelty value to me. I can understand why some younger people are willing to let the government allow them to use them under very restricted circumstances. Personally, I would prefer IPSC adapt to using firearms that are readily available in our environment, it is supposed to be _practical_ competition after all. IPSC is the most fun you can have with handguns though, did it for 13 years in Perth.

It does, you are not mistaken - the WAAAS was operating under a letter from the commissioner for it's club events - while the WAAAS wasn't found in infringement of the act a couple of years ago, they had to stop till the approval was sorted out and the matter is still ongoing.

I'd love to be able to head out into crown land, I mean I even share a back fence with a massive section of national park that I'd love to be able to go hunting in whenever I fancied. Shooting is a big part of my life and I hope it will remain so - However I think that disciplines like IPSC start removing divisions for stuff like Cat C shotguns it will only give the Anti's more cause to add further restrictions in excess of the NFA like we've seen with the Adler capacity restrictions in most states. Competitions already make a distinction between manual other than pump, pump and semi. The same applies for centerfire disciplines - while I acknowledge that IPSC Open Manual for rifles is primarily dominated by WFA1L's With FABA kits in other states, I don't believe that is a failing of the discipline but a failure of the government in restricting firearms that should never be restricted in the first place.

Back on property letters however, it is important to mention that there is no minimum property size required for actually shooting. So long as you are doing so in a safe manner. Once you have your rifle licensed, you can shoot anywhere you have permission with the above caveat. Its a means to an end, something well have to deal with till WAPOL stop utilizing their internal policy or we are permitted to hunt on crown land.

[bladeracer]

It does, you are not mistaken - the WAAAS was operating under a letter from the commissioner for it's club events - while the WAAAS wasn't found in infringement of the act a couple of years ago, they had to stop till the approval was sorted out and the matter is still ongoing.

Are you saying that you actually can't use your Collector licence firearms for IPSC after all?

[Tilb004]

I heard from a friend last week that has a station in the gascoyne WA area that a station owner got busted on his 200th property letter .
Not sure what station but i would think wapol will be cracking down on the money making from property letters .

[Larry]

Its such a stupid system as the letter really gives you no rights at all. Its not like you can just turn up to the property as if it was yours and go shooting. You still have to get prior permission to turn up and shoot.
Its really only a letter that says that this property owner may let you come and shoot. As in the property owner allows shooting on his property.
They should be done away with the police should be more worried about the scams going on with large numbers of property letters being sold without the property owners even having knowledge of who it is going to and making money from it.

[bladeracer]

Its such a stupid system as the letter really gives you no rights at all. Its not like you can just turn up to the property as if it was yours and go shooting. You still have to get prior permission to turn up and shoot.
Its really only a letter that says that this property owner may let you come and shoot. As in the property owner allows shooting on his property.
They should be done away with the police should be more worried about the scams going on with large numbers of property letters being sold without the property owners even having knowledge of who it is going to and making money from it.

Exactly right, there should be no requirement to prove you have access to any property, it's irrelevant. The law allows a firearm owner to shoot on any private property he has permission for, he shouldn't need to get permission before he even owns a firearm. There is no reason you couldn't travel to a different state for your hunting trips and competitions. As a WA firearms licence holder has every right to hunt and shoot on public land any time he visits Victoria he already has access to more than adequate hunting property without requiring permission from anybody, and it should be sufficient to support Hunting as genuine reason in WA - at least until they implement their border passport and visa system.

WA Police constructed a screw-up system that is not part of the law and penalise people for not being able to comply with with their non-law.

As for letters being sold without the property owners' knowledge, who cares if it doesn't allow you to actually enter the property anyway. You have 25 acres next door to your best mate with a million acres, he gives you a letter, you get your firearm, and then the friendship falls apart, he tells Firearms he's rescinded the permission, you lose your firearm. Even though you never had any intention of ever shooting on his property anyway, you only want to shoot on your own property as the law allows. The system is nonsense.

[Barbarian]

It does, you are not mistaken - the WAAAS was operating under a letter from the commissioner for it's club events - while the WAAAS wasn't found in infringement of the act a couple of years ago, they had to stop till the approval was sorted out and the matter is still ongoing.

Are you saying that you actually can't use your Collector licence firearms for IPSC after all?

I never said I could Blade. Read over my original post.

“We can shoot collector's firearms at approved events”

The WAAAS ran these till WAPOL raised issues regarding the approval, it’s currently being worked on. I might not have any present events to shoot my collection at but I’ve had a great deal of enjoyment being able to shoot my collectible handguns, shotguns and rifles at approved shoots.

Back to property letters however,

I honestly couldn’t care less if people are making money off of the letters, if they’re willing to put their signature on a piece of paper that gives you permission at that moment proving that you -may- have access to that property to hunt/shoot. Then that may enable people to shoot on reasonably sized properties that would be rendered unable to otherwise obtain a license for that firearm given WAPOL’s extreme categorisation of acreage required for shooting.

The Firearms Act lists no minimum property size

I’d still rather a new shooter jump through hoops to get into shooting than be stopped before they even got their license. Like Safes for Storage of Ammunition components. It’s a compliance mechanism and nothing more.

That doesn’t mean you can rest on your ass after getting a property letter, talk to people at the gun store, online, find people who will give you permission to hunt and get out and shoot.

I have places I can go shoot that hover around the 1000acre mark, it’s perfectly safe for me to shoot long distance there but WAPOL deem it too short for anything “high powered”

WAPOL’s internal policy needs to be scrapped and the licensing process bought inline with the NFA so we catch up with the rest of the country.

[dnedative]

NSW government figured it out because they could make an earn off it, you dont need a property letter here, just go get a game hunting license off the government which will support a firearms license and and you can actually go hunt on public land all over the state.

[geoff]

I still scratch my f****** head and ask myself why any so-called free Australian would live in a state like Western Australia should be torn off the country and pushed all the way to fukin Africa

Though the future of shooting in WA might be uncertain given the state Gov't shafting us with the current Firearms Ammendment Bill

I've been shooting in WA since I could legally get my firearms license and even before that with my old man.

WA Might be the worst state in terms of applying the dreaded Appearance Laws but there are other things going for the state.

Cat C for IPSC/Clay Target
No license or membership duration required for Collectors License for Cat A/B/C/H(Pre 1946)
Fully legal for unlicensed persons and minors to shoot the Licensee's firearms under direct supervision (something that is a violation in some jurisdicitions)
No Mag Limit on Cat A/B (Though WAPOL don't like ar16/m16 mags, once your licensed you can get whatever)

We have to deal with high license fees and no PTA system but moving out of state isn't a form of protest, its capitulation.

I am not a lawyer, but i think you should be wary of giving this advice, as it is a misconception - unlicenced adults are only allowed to shoot the guns of a licencee when at an approved range. Kids can shoot em whenever they are supervised by the licence holder though. Section 8 tells us that an unlicensed person is exempt from needing a licence if:

they are employed by or family members of a primary producer and using that primary producers firearms on their land (s 8.1.i). This means that farm workers and farmers families can use the farmers guns on their farm.

is using a licensed persons firearm on an approved range (s 8.1.m). This effectively means that your friends can shoot your guns at a club or range.

A minor is exempt from needing a licence if they are using a licence holders firearm under the direct supervision of the licence holder (s 8.1.n), it does not state that it has to be at an approved club or range or any other specified location. This implies that you can take a minor shooting for, say, pest control on private property and they can use your guns under your supervision.

There are other provisions of course: work, employees of the crown, shooting galleries etc. But nowhere else in Section 8 is a scenario described where you can be out shooting on a farm, i dunno busting foxes or pigs or something perfectly legally, and let an unlicenced adult use your firearms. Unlicenced meaning that they are unlicenced for that firearm (i.e. aren't a co-licncee). We licence the firearm to the person in WA, so even if your mate has his own licence and his own guns, they cannot shoot yours unless they also hold a licence for yours.

If we look at Section 23 (3) we see that you either need a licence or an exemption under Section 8:

"(3) Unless he holds a licence or permit under this Act entitling him
to do so or section 8 applies, a person who carries or uses a
firearm commits a crime and is liable —
(a) if the firearm concerned was a handgun or a prescribed
firearm, on conviction, to imprisonment for 7 years; or
(b) otherwise, to imprisonment for 4 years or a fine of
$16 000.
Summary conviction penalty:
(a) in a case to which paragraph (a) applies:
Imprisonment for 3 years or a fine of $12 000;
(b) in a case to which paragraph (b) applies:
Imprisonment for 2 years or a fine of $8 000."

As far as the law says, you cannot take an adult shooting out in the bush and let them use your guns unless they also hold a licence for those guns.

[bladeracer]

NSW government figured it out because they could make an earn off it, you dont need a property letter here, just go get a game hunting license off the government which will support a firearms license and and you can actually go hunt on public land all over the state.

In NSW you also need an R-Licence, or a G-Licence for certain hunting on private property.

[dnedative]

NSW government figured it out because they could make an earn off it, you dont need a property letter here, just go get a game hunting license off the government which will support a firearms license and and you can actually go hunt on public land all over the state.

In NSW you also need an R-Licence, or a G-Licence for certain hunting on private property.

Only need it if your shooting native ducks; Used to need it for deer but they f***ed it off years ago when they finally figured they are a introduced pest lol