Property Letters

Questions about Western Australian gun and ammunition laws. W.A. Firearms Act 1973.

Property Letters

Post by N.Field » 18 Jun 2021, 6:05 pm

Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?
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Re: Property Letters

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jun 2021, 7:09 pm

N.Field wrote:Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?


I thought they were closer to $300, despite not allowing you to actually shoot on the property.
I've heard that Police do follow up, but I don't have first-hand experience of such.
Probably a question better asked of the dealer selling it, and also worth making a call to the property owner.

You could try getting a NSW R-licence or a Victorian game licence and tell them you travel to hunt over here? Being WA though, I'd be very impressed if they considered that to be reasonable.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Jun 2021, 7:46 pm

N.Field wrote:Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?


I smell a rat. I think this has been discussed before.
So,,, potentially you pay the $ but in fact not permitted on the property. Right? Somehow I don't think WAPOL would be impressed.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jun 2021, 9:44 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
N.Field wrote:Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?


I smell a rat. I think this has been discussed before.
So,,, potentially you pay the $ but in fact not permitted on the property. Right? Somehow I don't think WAPOL would be impressed.


It's been happening for years.
The law doesn't require you to actually shoot there, it merely requires some evidence of a property where you can shoot. You can shoot on any size property, but you can't buy a rifle without access to a huge property.
The problem is caused by the Police requiring ludicrously huge properties to licence rifles on. Without a property letter you're stuck with club shooting only.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Jun 2021, 3:16 am

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
N.Field wrote:Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?


I smell a rat. I think this has been discussed before.
So,,, potentially you pay the $ but in fact not permitted on the property. Right? Somehow I don't think WAPOL would be impressed.


It's been happening for years.
The law doesn't require you to actually shoot there, it merely requires some evidence of a property where you can shoot. You can shoot on any size property, but you can't buy a rifle without access to a huge property.
The problem is caused by the Police requiring ludicrously huge properties to licence rifles on. Without a property letter you're stuck with club shooting only.


Lol strange but true I guess.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by duncan61 » 19 Jun 2021, 11:18 am

I was fortunate many years ago when first getting in to shooting I was installing a camp in the bush and the local publican had a holding down Esperance way tha twas massive so had no issue getting a property letter.The WAPOL have created this need a letter situation and yes most Shops can help you out.A few northern stations will do it as well
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 19 Jun 2021, 11:36 am

This is no different to how it is done in Queensland. Join the shooters union, NSC, SSAA etc etc and you have a genuine reason to own firearms. There is no legal requirement to attend a range.

It is all about fulfilling the requirement of genuine reason.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by animalpest » 19 Jun 2021, 11:47 am

It's a loophole that being exploited. When property letter requirements were made, no one thought people would make money by selling them.

It was assumed that those who had a letter would shoot on the property - well that's how it used to be. I think the landholder gets around it by saying you need to get the ok to come here and shoot. And that will never happen.

Police are now cracking down on it I have heard.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by ZaineB » 19 Jun 2021, 11:49 pm

bladeracer wrote:
N.Field wrote:Some WA dealers offer property letters at a cost of around $200. Does anyone know if these things are usually accepted by WAPOL and whether they ever follow up to confirm that the licensee actually shoots on the property specified in the letter?


I thought they were closer to $300, despite not allowing you to actually shoot on the property.
I've heard that Police do follow up, but I don't have first-hand experience of such.
Probably a question better asked of the dealer selling it, and also worth making a call to the property owner.

You could try getting a NSW R-licence or a Victorian game licence and tell them you travel to hunt over here? Being WA though, I'd be very impressed if they considered that to be reasonable.



havent read every reply, but WAPOL will only issue a lic to a WA land holding, not an R license or anything else, Also they do not issue a License for events or game that are not already in WA, so cant put water buffalo on as a reason for a 458 lott cos they will flatly tell you there are none in WA.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by ZaineB » 19 Jun 2021, 11:52 pm

animalpest wrote:It's a loophole that being exploited. When property letter requirements were made, no one thought people would make money by selling them.

It was assumed that those who had a letter would shoot on the property - well that's how it used to be. I think the landholder gets around it by saying you need to get the ok to come here and shoot. And that will never happen.

Police are now cracking down on it I have heard.



yep heard some rumor mills too, from wafta and ssaa and sffp and all suggesting that property letters are on the chopping block, dont be surprised, if you have one of these bought letters attached to an application previous, if the police call up asking you to verify that you have a genuine need for your firearm.

personally I would stay the hell away from those letters
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Re: Property Letters

Post by duncan61 » 20 Jun 2021, 12:12 pm

ZaineB wrote
havent read every reply, but WAPOL will only issue a lic to a WA land holding, not an R license or anything else, Also they do not issue a License for events or game that are not already in WA, so cant put water buffalo on as a reason for a 458 lott cos they will flatly tell you there are none in WA.
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I disagree.If you put you wish to use a 458 Lott for donkeys or camels it will be fine.We have lots of them.I have been around a while and gone through all the different licensing requirements and changes.Now is the most simple it has ever been.I am about to help secure property letters for my mates son and my own son which is another reason I wish to go to Waroona and talk to the property owners.After the cooling off period and a handling test it will all fall in to place and we are good to go.No police involved it is all done at the post office.I recently added .243 BRNO .22 Savage hornet and a Shotgun my mate had before he died and I did it all on one app.It is this son I need to get licensed so he can have possesion of his dads stuff.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by bladeracer » 20 Jun 2021, 6:14 pm

animalpest wrote:It's a loophole that being exploited. When property letter requirements were made, no one thought people would make money by selling them.

It was assumed that those who had a letter would shoot on the property - well that's how it used to be. I think the landholder gets around it by saying you need to get the ok to come here and shoot. And that will never happen.

Police are now cracking down on it I have heard.


Police are the cause of this "issue" due to their making up their own requirements about property sizes. They can fix it simply by removing their ludicrous requirements and stick to the laws as written. A property letter should be the only requirement, regardless of property size, just like every other state.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Smiley » 20 Jun 2021, 6:55 pm

When my postal address changed a few years ago, my licence expired because I never received a renewal notice.
I have acreage so I put primary production along with target shooting on my (re)application.
Then I was asked to provide a letter from myself, to myself, giving me permission to shoot on my place, where I live.

Not kidding.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by animalpest » 20 Jun 2021, 7:30 pm

I don't know what sized property is needed for different calibres in WA. It doesn't affect me so ...

But I assume that the property should be safe to use a 6mm Super Rockchucker on if that's your desired calibre.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Jun 2021, 7:32 pm

Yep, W.A. is different. :lol: :lol: :clap:
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Re: Property Letters

Post by bladeracer » 20 Jun 2021, 7:48 pm

animalpest wrote:I don't know what sized property is needed for different calibres in WA. It doesn't affect me so ...

But I assume that the property should be safe to use a 6mm Super Rockchucker on if that's your desired calibre.


There is some sort of chart I've seen. .223 requires 5000ac or something equally ridiculous.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 20 Jun 2021, 7:48 pm

Smiley wrote:When my postal address changed a few years ago, my licence expired because I never received a renewal notice.
I have acreage so I put primary production along with target shooting on my (re)application.
Then I was asked to provide a letter from myself, to myself, giving me permission to shoot on my place, where I live.

Not kidding.



I do self managed super and I have to document meetings between the members about our investment strategy. I am the only member of my fund!!!!
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Re: Property Letters

Post by animalpest » 20 Jun 2021, 9:40 pm

Was in the office of a senior officer in my government agency many years ago. He was writing a letter to himself as he wore 2 hats for different positions. Funny thing was that 20+ years later, I did the same. :drinks:

5000 acres for a .223. Strewth
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Re: Property Letters

Post by ZaineB » 21 Jun 2021, 12:04 am

duncan61 wrote:ZaineB wrote
havent read every reply, but WAPOL will only issue a lic to a WA land holding, not an R license or anything else, Also they do not issue a License for events or game that are not already in WA, so cant put water buffalo on as a reason for a 458 lott cos they will flatly tell you there are none in WA.
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I disagree.If you put you wish to use a 458 Lott for donkeys or camels it will be fine.We have lots of them.I have been around a while and gone through all the different licensing requirements and changes.Now is the most simple it has ever been.I am about to help secure property letters for my mates son and my own son which is another reason I wish to go to Waroona and talk to the property owners.After the cooling off period and a handling test it will all fall in to place and we are good to go.No police involved it is all done at the post office.I recently added .243 BRNO .22 Savage hornet and a Shotgun my mate had before he died and I did it all on one app.It is this son I need to get licensed so he can have possesion of his dads stuff.



you have missed my point here bud, sure you can license one for that, go for it, but you wont get one licensed for water buff, or a property in qld or NT that has water buff.

of course someone can get a 458lott etc here, I know plenty with them, its the point I was making that you missed.

also the Police (WAPOL) are 100% involved, police clerks, sergeants and constables are involved in every single license application and addition, the post office merely takes your application and money. There is not one gun application they aren't directly involved in, so I don't know what you are getting at there. Auspost does not process your applications.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by ZaineB » 21 Jun 2021, 12:09 am

bladeracer wrote:
animalpest wrote:I don't know what sized property is needed for different calibres in WA. It doesn't affect me so ...

But I assume that the property should be safe to use a 6mm Super Rockchucker on if that's your desired calibre.


There is some sort of chart I've seen. .223 requires 5000ac or something equally ridiculous.



nope wrong,

its more roughly along these lines last I applied,

223 etc = 1000acres
22 hornet etc 500 acres
30-06/270/6.5x55 = 2000 acres
7mm rem/300 win = 3000+ (pretty much the biggest "fast" caliber they will license at the moment without a lot of messing around)
it gets complicated with stuff like 45-70 I think 1000 acres in some circumstances and 500 acres in other circumstances, these involve where the property is, kind of terrain, bush, how big the landholding is relative to how many titles it is spread over etc.

most of this I dont care, my property letter for my 223 was 14,000 hectares and thats the smallest of my "letters"
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 21 Jun 2021, 6:47 am

animalpest wrote:Was in the office of a senior officer in my government agency many years ago. He was writing a letter to himself as he wore 2 hats for different positions. Funny thing was that 20+ years later, I did the same. :drinks:

5000 acres for a .223. Strewth


Jesus!!! Whilst not a law, weapons licensing in QLD like to see you have 5000 acres then you can apply for a cat D rifle to maintain pest control on your property.

40 acres is the arbitrary figure they give so you can have a genuine reason for recreational shooting on private land. Again not a law but if the property is smaller than this they won't reject it, they will just evaluate the property to ensure it is safe to shoot on.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by duncan61 » 21 Jun 2021, 9:19 am

ZaineB wrote
you have missed my point here bud, sure you can license one for that, go for it, but you wont get one licensed for water buff, or a property in qld or NT that has water buff.

of course someone can get a 458lott etc here, I know plenty with them, its the point I was making that you missed.

also the Police (WAPOL) are 100% involved, police clerks, sergeants and constables are involved in every single license application and addition, the post office merely takes your application and money. There is not one gun application they aren't directly involved in, so I don't know what you are getting at there. Auspost does not process your application

Yes I have missed both points.I assumed you were saying these firearms are not available in W.A. Of course the police do the licensing you just do not have to deal with them in person anymore where police officer she is having a bad hair day grills you over why you need a single shot 12g and why are you going to hurt baby rabbits or native Australian foxes
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Re: Property Letters

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jun 2021, 10:18 am

Thanks Zaine.
As I said, ludicrous requirements :-)


ZaineB wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
animalpest wrote:I don't know what sized property is needed for different calibres in WA. It doesn't affect me so ...

But I assume that the property should be safe to use a 6mm Super Rockchucker on if that's your desired calibre.


There is some sort of chart I've seen. .223 requires 5000ac or something equally ridiculous.



nope wrong,

its more roughly along these lines last I applied,

223 etc = 1000acres
22 hornet etc 500 acres
30-06/270/6.5x55 = 2000 acres
7mm rem/300 win = 3000+ (pretty much the biggest "fast" caliber they will license at the moment without a lot of messing around)
it gets complicated with stuff like 45-70 I think 1000 acres in some circumstances and 500 acres in other circumstances, these involve where the property is, kind of terrain, bush, how big the landholding is relative to how many titles it is spread over etc.

most of this I dont care, my property letter for my 223 was 14,000 hectares and thats the smallest of my "letters"
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Re: Property Letters

Post by ChrisPer » 21 Jun 2021, 11:01 am

It surely isn't that WA is different.
Its that WAPOL is different. Say it don't forget it, WA public get different treatment to normal Australians.

On the other hand, maybe WA are special: on the roads: indicators are apparently optional because it's WA (if you ask an eastern stater).
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Re: Property Letters

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jun 2021, 11:05 am

My understanding is that the 40ac requirement in Qld is only for genuine reason? You can shoot on any size property. It is down to the shooter to ensure he is doing so safely.

One acre is only 4000m. Next time you are shooting at 100m look 20m to each side of you, that is all an acre is, 100m by 40m. A hectare is 10,000m2, or 100m by 100m, or 2.5 acres. And it is absolutely viable to safely shoot even a 50BMG on one acre without endangering anybody, as long as you ensure it is safe to do so.

A .22LR bullet can, on a very good day, reach a little over 1000m, if you fire it up into the sky. If you stood in the centre of a circular property that is 2000m across, you can shoot into the sky all day long in the knowledge that all of you bullets are remaining within your property. That is 3.14 million m2, or 784 acres. But there is no requirement to be standing in the centre of the property when shooting. You can be shooting rabbits along a boundary fence line, in a strip of blackberry a meter deep and 40m long say, or effectively one-hundredth of an acre, and still ensure your bullets are hitting a safe backstop.

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:
animalpest wrote:Was in the office of a senior officer in my government agency many years ago. He was writing a letter to himself as he wore 2 hats for different positions. Funny thing was that 20+ years later, I did the same. :drinks:

5000 acres for a .223. Strewth


Jesus!!! Whilst not a law, weapons licensing in QLD like to see you have 5000 acres then you can apply for a cat D rifle to maintain pest control on your property.

40 acres is the arbitrary figure they give so you can have a genuine reason for recreational shooting on private land. Again not a law but if the property is smaller than this they won't reject it, they will just evaluate the property to ensure it is safe to shoot on.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 21 Jun 2021, 12:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:My understanding is that the 40ac requirement in Qld is only for genuine reason? You can shoot on any size property. It is down to the shooter to ensure he is doing so safely.

One acre is only 4000m. Next time you are shooting at 100m look 20m to each side of you, that is all an acre is, 100m by 40m. A hectare is 10,000m2, or 100m by 100m, or 2.5 acres. And it is absolutely viable to safely shoot even a 50BMG on one acre without endangering anybody, as long as you ensure it is safe to do so.

A .22LR bullet can, on a very good day, reach a little over 1000m, if you fire it up into the sky. If you stood in the centre of a circular property that is 2000m across, you can shoot into the sky all day long in the knowledge that all of you bullets are remaining within your property. That is 3.14 million m2, or 784 acres. But there is no requirement to be standing in the centre of the property when shooting. You can be shooting rabbits along a boundary fence line, in a strip of blackberry a meter deep and 40m long say, or effectively one-hundredth of an acre, and still ensure your bullets are hitting a safe backstop.



Yes the 40 acres is just to suffice the genuine reason to own firearms without having to pay for a club membership. Anything over 40 gets rubber stamped as safe and anything under they evaluate to make sure its safe. These are all guidelines as the law mentions nothing about land size. Once you have a licence you can shoot on any sized property you just can't shoot through someone else's property without permission. I would not want to shoot on a property smaller than 100m x 100m unless it was to put down an injured animal.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Nails » 21 Jun 2021, 5:49 pm

I’ve read each post but still unclear on why anyone would want to buy a dodgy letter. Are these letters just a reason to not pay membership?
I’m in Qld and even though I own a large enough property to shoot on, it was far simpler to pay memberships for my genuine reason and enjoy shooting at both.

Is tit not possible to use range membership as a genuine reason in WA?
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Re: Property Letters

Post by duncan61 » 21 Jun 2021, 5:51 pm

In W.A. you can join a club and shoot at that club or get a private property to shoot/hunt on.There is no public hunting land
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 21 Jun 2021, 5:58 pm

duncan61 wrote:In W.A. you can join a club and shoot at that club or get a private property to shoot/hunt on.There is no public hunting land


I think he means if you have a genuine reason for one can't you do the other?

In Queensland you only have to prove genuine reason for club or private land recreational use and you get both codes on your licence. SC1(club) and RE1(private land).

It is easier to pay the shooters union 30$ a year for your genuine reason than to prove you have a property to shoot on.
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Re: Property Letters

Post by Nails » 21 Jun 2021, 6:22 pm

That’s pretty much the same ss Qld as far as I can see.
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