FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Questions about Western Australian gun and ammunition laws. W.A. Firearms Act 1973.

Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by ash_hendo » 24 Mar 2022, 8:33 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:
ash_hendo wrote:Who comes up with this stuff?? Are they are simply trying to make it so hard everyone gives up?....... Trouble is, the actual problems don't go away, as violent people with no morals will still find a way to be violent people with no morals. I suspect none of this regulation will make a scrap of difference....... It's just the every day honest people who get screwed over and lose a nice hobby.....


It's all about appearing to be doing something without doing anything at all.
There's a long running history of the public service WAPOL treating the people it serves with contempt.
The article in the West Australian is appalling, I hope everyone has taken the time to read it. The problem with rubbish like that article is the average Joe ends up believing it even in the absence of actual data to support the claims being made.
Perhaps someone with a good knowledge of the WA firearms act can chime in with the current safe storage and fit / proper person ruled because that seems to be the nuts and blots of the article.


Sigh, yes, you are probably right, all this effort to appear to do something, and the appearance is forgotten so quickly and the legislation stays on the books for a long time, if not forever.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by noneyabussiness » 24 Mar 2022, 8:48 pm

Grumpy wrote:Quote from WA Today. “There is something like 350,000 firearms out there, a hell of a lot of them are publicly lying around, mostly unused, if not all, in a state that is very attractive for a criminal to steal,” he told Radio 6PR.”

Can someone from WA point out what area’s these “publicly lying around” firearms are in? I’ve been driving around all day and stuffed if I can find any.



and yet THEY released to the public where the firearms are safely stored.... utter moronic
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Mar 2022, 8:50 pm

noneyabussiness wrote:
Grumpy wrote:Quote from WA Today. “There is something like 350,000 firearms out there, a hell of a lot of them are publicly lying around, mostly unused, if not all, in a state that is very attractive for a criminal to steal,” he told Radio 6PR.”

Can someone from WA point out what area’s these “publicly lying around” firearms are in? I’ve been driving around all day and stuffed if I can find any.



and yet THEY released to the public where the firearms are safely stored.... utter moronic


I suspect they have screwed themselves.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Barbarian » 26 Mar 2022, 11:27 pm

[code][/code]
Grumpy wrote:Quote from WA Today. “There is something like 350,000 firearms out there, a hell of a lot of them are publicly lying around, mostly unused, if not all, in a state that is very attractive for a criminal to steal,” he told Radio 6PR.”

Can someone from WA point out what area’s these “publicly lying around” firearms are in? I’ve been driving around all day and stuffed if I can find any.


I swear it’s getting worse, can’t swing a cat without hitting a gun laying about this house.

Jokes aside, I wasn’t aware. Unloaded, Bolt Removed and Locked in a safe was ‘lying around’

I realise we live in a day and age of battery powered angle grinders, so most safes are inadequate to deter a determined thief - but shooters by and large are doing as requested by the authorities. Most of the people I know who get busted on storage charges are complacent old fellas.

Unfortunately I realise that with a labour majority, John Coward’s legacy will continue and this hill will likely make it through unopposed. However I’m encouraging everyone to write to your local representative.

Even if WAPOL will re-write the bill to allow licensed firearm owners to possess Firearms Technology as expressed, the bill will still make so many innocuous modifications require an application that have till now been fine to have shipped to our door - the whole bill should be scrapped imo.

Magazines, Triggers, bolt accessories (knobs/handles depending on how they interpret the legislation.) and chassis/stocks.

Hang in there WA.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by womble » 27 Mar 2022, 4:01 am

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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by womble » 27 Mar 2022, 6:13 am

If indeed wapol did provide the maps, this is an astounding breach of trust.
The very people charged with fighting crime publishing the easiest and most lucrative criminal targets online.
Black market firearms for criminals is high reward. Far more lucrative than drugs or other crimes. Career criminals will sacrifice a couple of years of free lodging and meals for the bonus when they check out.
These are family homes that now live in fear of home invasion and most likely by armed offenders.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Mar 2022, 6:52 am



Someone is going to need a jar of Vaseline.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by noneyabussiness » 27 Mar 2022, 9:15 am

" He confirmed to host Gareth Parker that, at the moment, there were no requirements for a person to be trained in the safe handling of guns, but that is one of the recommendations he would like to see introduced in the overhaul of the WA firearms laws flagged on Tuesday "

um... do you mob not need to do a firearms safety course to get your license?? as far as I was aware, every state had too ??
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 27 Mar 2022, 12:03 pm

noneyabussiness wrote:"
um... do you mob not need to do a firearms safety course to get your license?? as far as I was aware, every state had too ??


In SA we complete a 2 day safety course with a practical skills test to pass... I'd bet that WA is the same?
Whats WA's storage rules? That's another one of their "big" points.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 27 Mar 2022, 12:17 pm

Isn't it funny ... it's harder to get your hands on cans of spray paint than it is knives.
You can literally walk down to a supermarket and grab one off the shelf, meanwhile you'll need to ask someone to unlock the spray paint cage to gain access to that deadly paint :lol:
Now let's stroll over to bunnings an look at their weapons :thumbsup:
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by animalpest » 27 Mar 2022, 12:29 pm

In WA the required firearms training is currently just a 20 question multiple choice questionaire. You don't even need to handle a firearm.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 27 Mar 2022, 2:19 pm

animalpest wrote:In WA the required firearms training is currently just a 20 question multiple choice questionaire. You don't even need to handle a firearm.


Cheers for that, looks like we have a very limited number of people familiar with WA rules here.

Sounds like their pretty relaxed with obtaining a licence, how about safe keeping... can they still keep their firearms in a Milo tin provided its locked shut and bolted down ?
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by niteowl » 27 Mar 2022, 3:06 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:
animalpest wrote:In WA the required firearms training is currently just a 20 question multiple choice questionaire. You don't even need to handle a firearm.


Cheers for that, looks like we have a very limited number of people familiar with WA rules here.

Sounds like their pretty relaxed with obtaining a licence, how about safe keeping... can they still keep their firearms in a Milo tin provided its locked shut and bolted down ?


You are so right regarding the general lack of knowledge of WA firearm laws. WA, in my opinion with some 60 odd years of involvement, are easy to get along with and even lax in some areas, regardless of what you easterners keep saying. Basically you can have whatever you want.
I will not go into discussing what I own and use on line.

Going back to the storage mentioned above, you are probably correct with the Milo tin :shock: it is my opinion that the universally recommended safes, same specs as per the east (I think) are not what I would ever use for a couple of reasons. One being they are too easy to burgle, two they are not "fire safes". Why would anyone with a substantial value in firearms not have SECURE and "FIREPROOF" storage??
Unfortunately there are some very slack people when it comes to even just keeping them in their tin box.

I hear you all, they are NOT "fireproof". No in real terms, but fire resistant for a designated time in a fire.
All ours are Chubb Safes have the "high value security rating", relockers and all.
Just imagine the hassle of replacement after a fire. Insurance companies will NOT pay out easily and the time factor as well.

Any way I am invited to attend their discussion meeting re the changes so we will see how it goes.
I don't see too much in the proposal documents that are of great concern.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 27 Mar 2022, 5:08 pm

niteowl wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:
animalpest wrote:In WA the required firearms training is currently just a 20 question multiple choice questionaire. You don't even need to handle a firearm.


Cheers for that, looks like we have a very limited number of people familiar with WA rules here.

Sounds like their pretty relaxed with obtaining a licence, how about safe keeping... can they still keep their firearms in a Milo tin provided its locked shut and bolted down ?


You are so right regarding the general lack of knowledge of WA firearm laws. WA, in my opinion with some 60 odd years of involvement, are easy to get along with and even lax in some areas, regardless of what you easterners keep saying. Basically you can have whatever you want.
I will not go into discussing what I own and use on line.

Going back to the storage mentioned above, you are probably correct with the Milo tin :shock: it is my opinion that the universally recommended safes, same specs as per the east (I think) are not what I would ever use for a couple of reasons. One being they are too easy to burgle, two they are not "fire safes". Why would anyone with a substantial value in firearms not have SECURE and "FIREPROOF" storage??
Unfortunately there are some very slack people when it comes to even just keeping them in their tin box.

I hear you all, they are NOT "fireproof". No in real terms, but fire resistant for a designated time in a fire.
All ours are Chubb Safes have the "high value security rating", relockers and all.
Just imagine the hassle of replacement after a fire. Insurance companies will NOT pay out easily and the time factor as well.

Any way I am invited to attend their discussion meeting re the changes so we will see how it goes.
I don't see too much in the proposal documents that are of great concern.



ok... I thought that might be the case with the safes, hence the desire to tighten the rules.
Not that long ago SA had very similar rules, I was using a single steel locker (school style) to keep my firearms, Loosing the key wouldn't have caused much drama as the door could be popped open with a butter knife. :lol:
SAPOL managed to make the transition to increased storage security without all the drama and fear mongering, and as far as I know we didnt have SAPOL leak our addresses to the media, someones head needs to roll for that.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by niteowl » 27 Mar 2022, 7:26 pm

Oh, we are currently a bit better than that, though they are not much better in my view.
In the "old days" you just stuffed 'em in the broom cupboard. Not good when you think about it.
Anyway I have moved on quite a bit with gear since then.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Barbarian » 27 Mar 2022, 8:53 pm

niteowl wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:
animalpest wrote:In WA the required firearms training is currently just a 20 question multiple choice questionaire. You don't even need to handle a firearm.


Cheers for that, looks like we have a very limited number of people familiar with WA rules here.

Sounds like their pretty relaxed with obtaining a licence, how about safe keeping... can they still keep their firearms in a Milo tin provided its locked shut and bolted down ?


Any way I am invited to attend their discussion meeting re the changes so we will see how it goes.
I don't see too much in the proposal documents that are of great concern.


The Bill mostly centres on it’s ideas around preventing criminals and criminal associates from getting a firearms license and penalties for having things they shouldn’t. That I don’t mind particularly but only time will tell if the powers are abused.

As others have said, the section on firearms technology is very poorly written and in it’s current form makes hand loading and possession of the equipment a crime.

I do have a problem with requiring a new license application for innocuous items like Triggers, Mags, Stocks/Chassis and bolt components. - all of these things I could get shipped to my door.

In fact my most recent rifle build involved a Shriud and Handle from Sterk - KRG Stock, new trigger and some mags from Iceng, all of those things fall under what is now considered a ‘Major’ firearm part under the new bill.

Incase I didn’t mention above, I am a WA shooter.

For the most part I don’t think our storage requirements are any different from any other state for the most part. We have to bolt our safes down regardless of weight, to two structural surfaces.

Schedule 4 of the Firearms Regulations has all of the dimensions of an approved safe’s construction.

Keys can’t be stored readily accessible in the same area as the safe. (I keep mine on me.)

Bolt doesn’t have to be removed as per the regulation however enough cops believe it to be the case that I do it anyway to avoid issues.

One area our laws differ from others is we can get Cat C for IPSC, which is sweet if you like the sport as I do. We also don’t require co-licensing of a firearm by another shooter if the firearm is used under direct supervision of the licensed owner.

I’m hoping some common sense will prevail, I don’t particularly mind the additional training for long arms. (Pistols already require a long training period that is handled by the clubs however) not everyone has the advantage of being raised by responsible firearms owners who pass on good gun safety to their children. I personally do my best to introduce others to shooting the same way I was with a safety first mindset.

However irresponsible shooters will pass on bad habits to new shooters and some people will apply for a license without ever having been taught anything before they read the Firearms Safety Booklet I’m prep for their Safety test (The above mentioned 20 Question test.)

However I think they are fear mongering when they say that these .50 Cal rifles are everywhere, most gun stores I have spoken to in the perth metro area have said that a handful of people got them when they were first able after Ella Valla’s range was commissioned but the policy of WAPOL Firearms Branch has been to outright refuse to issue more licenses for them for some time now. Not to mention the financial barrier to entry for many shooters.

WA isn’t as bad as it is often maligned to be, the fees are high and sure, I’d love a MPR-308 (not that many are being sent out anyway.) but I’ve been otherwise able to license everything else I’d ever want.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Barbarian » 27 Mar 2022, 9:15 pm

I’m not familiar with the specifics of other state’s safe construction requirements. However most models of safe you can buy commercially are designed for Australia wide approval (not Bunnings though) given that all owners have to submit a storage statement with their license application I don’t know where they are getting this idea that people are just keeping firearms laying around.

Unless WAPOL or the country as a whole shifts our regulations to require a higher grade of safe, I don’t see them as a security measure but as a compliance mechanism.

Schedule 4 if anyone is interested;

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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Mar 2022, 6:24 am

For our WA members.
22 March The West Australian.

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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by noneyabussiness » 28 Mar 2022, 7:33 am

and yet very little crimes ( if any) are committed with legal firearms... this only reads to me as they getting nervous... no other reason I can see ..

but hey, I'm not one of these " smart " politicians
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Mar 2022, 10:36 am

More BS from the West Australian a couple of days ago.

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Consultation. :lol: :lol: :lol:

They will ram it through just like Jackboot Jeff Kennett.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 28 Mar 2022, 10:38 am

Gotta love the police wearing balaclavas in the background ... just in case we didn't know who the real criminals were :lol:
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Tomotron » 30 Mar 2022, 12:37 pm

I believe the new firearms act will be based off the findings of the Law Reform Commission of Western Australia.
https://www.wa.gov.au/government/public ... ct-1973-wa
https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2021 ... Report.pdf
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by geoff » 30 Mar 2022, 3:54 pm

Tomotron wrote:I believe the new firearms act will be based off the findings of the Law Reform Commission of Western Australia.
https://www.wa.gov.au/government/public ... ct-1973-wa
https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2021 ... Report.pdf


I had a lengthy meeeting with a WAPOL member who was part of the team tasked with the re-write. We can put aside the glaring issue that cops shouldn't write the laws, they should enforce them, but that's whole other kettle of fish.

He made it pretty clear to me that the LRC review from 2016 was useful, but not their primary source or focus. Unfortunately.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 30 Mar 2022, 4:07 pm

geoff wrote:[We can put aside the glaring issue that cops shouldn't write the laws, they should enforce them...


:clap: it's probably a constitutional validation... if it's not, it should be.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 30 Mar 2022, 4:49 pm

geoff wrote:
Tomotron wrote:I believe the new firearms act will be based off the findings of the Law Reform Commission of Western Australia.
https://www.wa.gov.au/government/public ... ct-1973-wa
https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2021 ... Report.pdf


I had a lengthy meeeting with a WAPOL member who was part of the team tasked with the re-write. We can put aside the glaring issue that cops shouldn't write the laws, they should enforce them, but that's whole other kettle of fish.

He made it pretty clear to me that the LRC review from 2016 was useful, but not their primary source or focus. Unfortunately.


My understanding is that its normal practice for "departments" (e.g. police, worksafe, health) to re-write laws in the form of a "proposal" to the relevant ministry.

If you think about it, sort of makes sense as they are the "experts" in the field BUT unfortunately they often have other agenda's. Add to that a bit of "pretend' consultation and it soon goes down hill. Imaging slowmo writing gun laws with literally zero experience.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Tomotron » 30 Mar 2022, 7:16 pm

geoff wrote:
Tomotron wrote:I believe the new firearms act will be based off the findings of the Law Reform Commission of Western Australia.
https://www.wa.gov.au/government/public ... ct-1973-wa
https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2021 ... Report.pdf


I had a lengthy meeting with a WAPOL member who was part of the team tasked with the re-write. We can put aside the glaring issue that cops shouldn't write the laws, they should enforce them, but that's whole other kettle of fish.

He made it pretty clear to me that the LRC review from 2016 was useful, but not their primary source or focus. Unfortunately.

WAPOL are involved with the rewrite and they're disregarding the LRC review which was sensible for the purposes of eastern-like NFA alignment? Typical WAPOL. Police shouldn't be writing any laws, it's just another avenue that encourages and allows corruption within the force. Police and politics don't mix just like alcohol and firearms don't mix. :roll:
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by womble » 31 Mar 2022, 3:23 am

Arbitrary exercise of political control/power by a police force instead of regular operation of representative administrative and judicial organs of the government.

Also known as a police state or a totalitarian state.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by noneyabussiness » 31 Mar 2022, 6:27 am

https://nationalshooting.org.au/wa-papa ... -gun-laws/

an update, please support them for the blokes in WA
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by geoff » 31 Mar 2022, 3:37 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
geoff wrote:
Tomotron wrote:I believe the new firearms act will be based off the findings of the Law Reform Commission of Western Australia.
https://www.wa.gov.au/government/public ... ct-1973-wa
https://www.wa.gov.au/system/files/2021 ... Report.pdf


I had a lengthy meeeting with a WAPOL member who was part of the team tasked with the re-write. We can put aside the glaring issue that cops shouldn't write the laws, they should enforce them, but that's whole other kettle of fish.

He made it pretty clear to me that the LRC review from 2016 was useful, but not their primary source or focus. Unfortunately.


My understanding is that its normal practice for "departments" (e.g. police, worksafe, health) to re-write laws in the form of a "proposal" to the relevant ministry.

If you think about it, sort of makes sense as they are the "experts" in the field BUT unfortunately they often have other agenda's. Add to that a bit of "pretend' consultation and it soon goes down hill. Imaging slowmo writing gun laws with literally zero experience.


Yes I understand that it is standard practice, but that doesn't make it right. WAPOL have fooled the state into thinking they are the experts, which is mind boggling, given that the state regularly informs itself of how poorly WAPOL do their job:

https://audit.wa.gov.au/reports-and-pub ... -controls/

The government don't even listen to themselves. Only the cops.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 31 Mar 2022, 3:56 pm

"given that the state regularly informs itself of how poorly WAPOL do their job:

https://audit.wa.gov.au/reports-and-pub ... -controls/

The government don't even listen to themselves. Only the cops."

I only read the "Key Findings"

That is a damning report. "Formal procedures were last updated in 2012 and are not used by staff to assess licence applications because they are out of date"
....wow worst practice, not best practice. Yet Firearm owners are expected to follow all of the acts and regulations or pay the price. Bunch of incompetent hypocrites IMHO.

Every FA owner in WA should be handing a letter of disgust to their local MP along with a copy of that report.
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