FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Questions about Western Australian gun and ammunition laws. W.A. Firearms Act 1973.

Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by niteowl » 03 Apr 2022, 11:45 pm

animalpest wrote:
niteowl wrote:
animalpest wrote:No Cat D available in WA.


Like I said, "what is your real requirement to have Cat D?"


I don't discuss job/contracts/work on a forum, or with people I don't know. I have real requirements but as I am not in government any more, WA law makes it more than difficult.


Wasn't directed to you personally, a general question for the general run of shooters..
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Barbarian » 04 Apr 2022, 4:22 am

Farmers assist - Aside from being gated behind SSAA membership - while I have my membership because do shoot at some SSAA ranges, plenty of shooters are not happy with their performance, that can be seen to mimic a similar change in behaviour that’s been seen in the US with the likes of the NRA.

It can be over-saturated and a bit of an old boys club in some areas. I did it for around 3 years when I was a new shooter with my old man, I’ve since stopped as I have developed enough contacts with private land that keep me busy enough with both pest control and recreational shooting when work permits.

It can be a bit of a lottery and that will put folks off. A great deal of our state Forrest’s and other reserves are not open to the public. So crown land hunting with a better system would be welcome IMO

Cat D - It’s not easy to get in other states, but it’s possible with a genuine need. That’s all there is to it in my book. We should have the same access. - Would also be nice to be able to run a longer tube on my comp shotgun but hey, thems the rules for now. - same for Supressors, though I’d like to see them for Range use too.

Millitary appearance - should be scrapped, who cares if people want Tacticool s**t? People like what they like, recreational shooting/plinking is legitimate in Australia, no reason people can’t have something with rails and pistol grips for that reason.

Folding stocks - just let us put folders on comp rifles FFS, makes it so much easier to transport.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Tomotron » 04 Apr 2022, 11:20 am

From a hunting perspective, having semi-automatic firearms would allow me and similar folks to use quick follow-up shots, resulting in more efficient dispatches of fast-moving pest animals such as pigs and foxes. From a sporting perspective, more energetic and fun events including better runtimes in IPSC and maybe even longer courses. I don't need to be a pro hunter to explain this. The shooter has gone through a very strong licencing and vetting process, being trusted to handle firearms. What's the difference between a rec hunter and a pro hunter other than income? Earning money should never factor into the availability of firearms. That's economic discrimination. There's absolutely no logic to this. Nothing more than Hollywood pseudo-intellectualism by Howard, his cronies and his successors.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by cz515 » 04 Apr 2022, 1:25 pm

noneyabussiness wrote:
niteowl wrote:
animalpest wrote:No Cat D available in WA.


Like I said, "what is your real requirement to have Cat D?"



Ill put a scenario forward...

coming up on a mob of 30 pigs out whoop whoop eastern WA, now currently you would fire off a round and you would get 1 maybe 2 ( 3 if no cover and a good shot ) , if you had a semi " cat d " you would more likely get 3 to 5 ( or more )... if we had access to a suppressor you could probably get the whole 30 lol.. considering the enormous pest problem we have here in Australia it would be incredibly beneficial... so as long as properly vetted ( the laws are already in place) it would actually be a good thing..



Umm have you been watching too many of those Hollywood movies. A suppressor will bake the muzzle blast quieter.... but it can't do anything about the sonic boom of a projectile travelling at speed of sound.

Military appearance does not make any sense at all. How do ppl get scared of such firearms when we are not allowed to carry them out in the open.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by noneyabussiness » 04 Apr 2022, 1:47 pm

um.. as I do agree with you that it will ONLY help with the muzzle blast, and yes the bullet will still crack the sound barrier( unless you use sub sonic ammo).. but it DOES dramatically reduce noise, why in the scenario I put forward it would dramatically help... currently the biggest benefit to the muzzle blast now is most of the time the pigs don't know where the shot has come from, so will run in any direction ( usually to " cover " ) .. ... actually had pigs run towards us, until you get a 2nd round off, then they usually cotton on and run the opposite direction..

so no, haven't seen the new john wick bs ...

again, properly vetted legal firearms owners could greatly benefit from " cat d" etc.. but sadly our powers at be has seen the whole john wick trilogy and consider it scientific..
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by cz515 » 04 Apr 2022, 3:31 pm

Hey hey don't say bad things about John Wick...I saw a YouTube video where John Wick gave Chuck Norris a smack down. With nothing but a pistol (and no bullets)
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by animalpest » 04 Apr 2022, 8:35 pm

Tomotron - There are many differences between pro shooters and recreational shooters, money being just one. (When I say pro, I mean full time).

I don't think getting a cat D because it would be fun is ever going to happen. Mind you, semi-auto pistols are used at club events ....

It's always going to be is there a genuine NEED. That's a difficult one to argue.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Apr 2022, 8:41 pm

animalpest wrote:Tomotron - There are many differences between pro shooters and recreational shooters, money being just one. (When I say pro, I mean full time).

I don't think getting a cat D because it would be fun is ever going to happen. Mind you, semi-auto pistols are used at club events ....

It's always going to be is there a genuine NEED. That's a difficult one to argue.



Yep, many confuse need with want.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Tomotron » 04 Apr 2022, 9:15 pm

animalpest wrote:Tomotron - There are many differences between pro shooters and recreational shooters, money being just one. (When I say pro, I mean full time).

I don't think getting a cat D because it would be fun is ever going to happen. Mind you, semi-auto pistols are used at club events ....

It's always going to be is there a genuine NEED. That's a difficult one to argue.

Please enlighten my ignorant self. Sorry I went too aggressive on that particular point.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by animalpest » 04 Apr 2022, 11:31 pm

Aww there are differences between the quality of "professional" too. Some are weekend shooters who do it for petrol money, others are highly trained and experienced with the attitude towards their job.

Being a professional is not just about getting paid. You don't call a carpenter a professional, you call them a tradesperson.

There are pressures on pro's that others will never have. Tough jobs, high risk or high stakes (media, reputational, safety, financial, legal) all come with the territory.

I have said on this forum before that there are plenty of people with better, more expensive equipment than I have. And yep, some guns would be nice to have, if only...
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Apr 2022, 8:44 am

animalpest wrote:Aww there are differences between the quality of "professional" too. Some are weekend shooters who do it for petrol money, others are highly trained and experienced with the attitude towards their job.

Being a professional is not just about getting paid. You don't call a carpenter a professional, you call them a tradesperson.

There are pressures on pro's that others will never have. Tough jobs, high risk or high stakes (media, reputational, safety, financial, legal) all come with the territory.

I have said on this forum before that there are plenty of people with better, more expensive equipment than I have. And yep, some guns would be nice to have, if only...


Iv seen it for myself.

I picked up where a professional shooter left off on a local property.
This guy has been in the scene for decades, hes quite well known having produced videos about hunting and picking up loads of contracts all around the place.
Unfortunately this guy was leaving roos badly wounded obviously not even taking head shots. One roo was spotted from way back bounding with one of its arms swinging around in circles because it was hanging on by a thread after being shot off. Motherless joeys wandering around, gut shot roos ... all that wonderful stuff.

The only difference between a professional shooter and any other regular shooter is that the Pro has chosen to do it for a living.
White I know I shouldn't tar every Pro with the same brush, unfortunately Andre has left me with the impression that Pro shooters are cowboys who have no compassion for the animals they dispatch. I really hate unethical behaviour.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by animalpest » 05 Apr 2022, 9:35 am

Then Andre is not a professional. I think you missed my point between a professional and someone who does it for money.

No one who shoots roos for a living gut shoots roos.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Apr 2022, 11:38 am

animalpest wrote:No one who shoots roos for a living gut shoots roos.


Actually some do. Intentional or not, I've seen it for myself.
He was probably dropping roos at 500m + on the run or something clever like that. What you mean is "no one who shoots roos, professional or otherwise, should be doing anything other than head shots, specifically aiming for the brain stem.

Never confuse "professional" with ethical or good.
Professional simply means you do something for your primary income. There are good professionals and bad ones in every field.
That guy certainly wasn't good, ethical nor did he conduct his profession in a "professional" manner.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Boundry Rider » 25 May 2022, 7:59 pm

This bill is now an act having been assented to by the governor on 18/05/2022, and is now called Firearms Amendment Act 2022. As the commencement reads, part 1 is operational immediately on assent day, section 42(8) and Part 3 (division 1) are operational 28 days after assent day and the remainder of the act will take operational effect once it is proclaimed in the Government Gazette which date is undisclosed at this time.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Larry » 25 May 2022, 11:22 pm

One of the most important parts where firearm owners could be tripped up is that safes now have to be made of at least 1.6mm steel.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Boundry Rider » 26 May 2022, 12:16 am

Seeing as the OP's link isn't working, here is the bill as passed with the amendments highlighted (as supplied by the parliament website).
Attachments
Firearms+Act+1973 Amendment 2021 WA.pdf
(695.38 KiB) Downloaded 598 times
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Boundry Rider » 26 May 2022, 8:39 am

https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/prod/filestore.nsf/FileURL/mrdoc_44898.pdf/$FILE/Firearms%20Amendment%20Act%202022%20-%20%5B00-00-00%5D.pdf?OpenElement

Here is a link to the actual act without mirroring over the firearms act 1973. Obviously it is very hard to appreciate the full impact when presented in this way, however this is the actual act as passed.
I haven’t yet checked in it’s entirety that it is word for word as published in the mirrored over the 1973 act version.

Guaranteed there are shooters who voted for this current state government, and you can assume partial blame for this impost on our shooting amenity in WA.

It’s a disgrace.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by geoff » 26 May 2022, 1:37 pm

Boundry Rider wrote:Guaranteed there are shooters who voted for this current state government, and you can assume partial blame for this impost on our shooting amenity in WA.

It’s a disgrace.


This is a pretty low rent take in my opinion. Not everyone is a single issue voter, nor should they be.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Larry » 26 May 2022, 2:05 pm

Just to be clear there are firearm act amendments in Victoria as well as WA that are just coming into effect.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Boundry Rider » 14 Jun 2022, 12:03 am

Seems the grey area is buried well deep in this legislation regarding reloading.
So police have been advising Dealers that there is no need to prosecute reloaders if they only load their own calibers. However I am considering sending this suppositum to a firearms legal firm:

16A. Firearm Licence
A Firearm Licence entitles the holder to possess, carry and
lawfully use —
(b) ammunition for that firearm


However: Lawfully use does not deal with an equitable authorization for "Firearms activity authorized by a license"

23AF. Participating in unauthorised manufacture, repair or
dealing in firearms and other things
(1) In this section —
firearms activity means —
(a) the manufacture of a firearm, major firearm part,
prohibited firearm accessory or ammunition

Therefore:

23AF. Participating in unauthorised manufacture, repair or
dealing in firearms and other things
(2) A person commits a crime if —
(a) the person participates in a firearms activity; and
(b) the firearms activity is not authorised by a licence under
this Act.

Notwithstanding: a whole another clause which basically says the same thing.

23AC. Unauthorised manufacture of firearms and other things
(1) A person who manufactures a firearm, major firearm part,
prohibited firearm accessory or ammunition commits a crime
unless the person is authorised by a licence under this Act to do
so.
Penalty for this subsection: imprisonment for 14 years.
(2) This section applies whether or not the firearm, major firearm
part, prohibited firearm accessory or ammunition is, or could
form part of, a functioning firearm, major firearm part,
prohibited firearm accessory or ammunition.


So as the license as described in section 16A does not specify that the licensee is authorized to paricipate in "Firearms Activity "as described in section 23AF(1) there is no other interpretation other than Firearms activity and all its contents is unauthorized.
A magistrate will refer to the fact that in 16H(1), the only place in the whole act that mentions manufacturing ammunition is by having a dealers license:

16H. Manufacturer’s Licence
(1) A Manufacturer’s Licence entitles the holder, on the premises
named and identified in that licence, to —
(a) manufacture firearms, major firearm parts or
ammunition of the kind specified in that licence


I expect that people will believe that the good ole' WAPOL will go easy on LAFO however the insertion of "Firearms Activity" in the license description wouldn't have been that difficult would it? Smoke and Mirrors? Don't forget this one sneaked into the amendments, the bold red is deleted in the new act.

23(9) A person commits an offence if the person:
(e) being responsible for the storage of any firearm, major
firearm part
firearm or ammunition, refuses to permit a
member of the Police Force to inspect the storage
facilities provided, at a reasonable time.
time after such
an inspection is requested in writing by the member of
the Police Force,


Now without going into debate about grammar and what constitutes ammunition components (look in firearms precursor 23AF(1) and definitions 4 if you like) in this current amendment, what is expected of the complete re write in 2023?
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Boundry Rider » 18 Nov 2022, 9:31 am

Today this act is proclaimed, commencement date is 19/11/2022.
I have legal advice arriving today, so I will post whatever is appropriate and useful.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Faedy » 18 Nov 2022, 8:51 pm

No bloody way
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by on_one_wheel » 18 Nov 2022, 9:01 pm

There's never been a better time to have a parrot trained to say "nobody's home" whenever someone knocks on the door :thumbsup:
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Boundry Rider » 19 Nov 2022, 8:00 am

Ok from my discussion with legal advisor:

Absolutely reloading is manufacturing of ammunition and an offense in 4 or 5 clauses. Even if the magistrate let you go easy you will record a conviction.

Also if you want to upgrade a major firearms part (stocks, triggers etc) you’ll have to apply and wait for a modification permit before your repairer can do the smithing.

Amongst other things...

Oh and also they’ve sneaked in pages of amendments to Regulations which I didn’t even know was happening, so a complete read of regs would be pertinent.

Any non single issue voters still want to vote McSmeagol next election hmm?
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Nov 2022, 10:49 am

Boundry Rider wrote:Ok from my discussion with legal advisor:

Absolutely reloading is manufacturing of ammunition and an offense in 4 or 5 clauses. Even if the magistrate let you go easy you will record a conviction.

Also if you want to upgrade a major firearms part (stocks, triggers etc) you’ll have to apply and wait for a modification permit before your repairer can do the smithing.

Amongst other things...

Oh and also they’ve sneaked in pages of amendments to Regulations which I didn’t even know was happening, so a complete read of regs would be pertinent.

Any non single issue voters still want to vote McSmeagol next election hmm?


That's insane. Is the government going to write a letter to all the LAFO informing them of the changes?

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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by Lazarus » 19 Nov 2022, 11:06 am

Is this fcckery a bipartisan thing?

If it is, it sounds like shooters are an endangered species in the fascist west.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by NorthWester » 23 Nov 2022, 12:33 pm

Re: Reloading.

WAPOL have this on their FAQ's regarding the new amendments...

Will reloading ammunition constitute manufacturing ammunition?

Personal firearm licence holders have always been allowed to reload ammunition for firearms listed on their licence for personal use. They cannot reload ammunition for calibres not on their licence and cannot reload ammunition for supply or sale to others.

There has been no change to the existing policy position that would prevent a personal firearm licence holder from continuing to reload ammunition for their own personal use.
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by bladeracer » 23 Nov 2022, 1:48 pm

NorthWester wrote:Re: Reloading.

WAPOL have this on their FAQ's regarding the new amendments...

Will reloading ammunition constitute manufacturing ammunition?

Personal firearm licence holders have always been allowed to reload ammunition for firearms listed on their licence for personal use. They cannot reload ammunition for calibres not on their licence and cannot reload ammunition for supply or sale to others.

There has been no change to the existing policy position that would prevent a personal firearm licence holder from continuing to reload ammunition for their own personal use.


Is policy valid in law?
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by NorthWester » 23 Nov 2022, 2:08 pm

bladeracer wrote:
NorthWester wrote:Re: Reloading.

WAPOL have this on their FAQ's regarding the new amendments...

Will reloading ammunition constitute manufacturing ammunition?

Personal firearm licence holders have always been allowed to reload ammunition for firearms listed on their licence for personal use. They cannot reload ammunition for calibres not on their licence and cannot reload ammunition for supply or sale to others.

There has been no change to the existing policy position that would prevent a personal firearm licence holder from continuing to reload ammunition for their own personal use.


Is policy valid in law?


Doubtful.... however, I suspect you would not be prosecuted if there was a way of proving this was on the WAPOL website. That said, that could be taken down at any time and their policy reversed... They need to send out a formal letter to all license holders or adding it as a condition on licenses along with the possession, carry and use clause. Still a grey area....
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Re: FIREARMS AMENDMENT BILL 2021

Post by bladeracer » 23 Nov 2022, 2:28 pm

NorthWester wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
NorthWester wrote:Re: Reloading.

WAPOL have this on their FAQ's regarding the new amendments...

Will reloading ammunition constitute manufacturing ammunition?

Personal firearm licence holders have always been allowed to reload ammunition for firearms listed on their licence for personal use. They cannot reload ammunition for calibres not on their licence and cannot reload ammunition for supply or sale to others.

There has been no change to the existing policy position that would prevent a personal firearm licence holder from continuing to reload ammunition for their own personal use.


Is policy valid in law?


Doubtful.... however, I suspect you would not be prosecuted if there was a way of proving this was on the WAPOL website. That said, that could be taken down at any time and their policy reversed... They need to send out a formal letter to all license holders or adding it as a condition on licenses along with the possession, carry and use clause. Still a grey area....


I suspect you would get prosecuted, then spend months trying to get your licence and firearms back via the courts, but you would probably win, if you had screenshots of the statements made on their own website, hopefully available archived on forums like this one.
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