Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Questions about Western Australian gun and ammunition laws. W.A. Firearms Act 1973.

Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Rider888 » 30 Dec 2021, 7:09 am

HI All,

A good friend of mine is moving to WA from the US and is seeking some advice on finding a licence dealer to take possession of his 2 x .22 for his import and hold it for him until he gets settled and moves into his new place.
I was going to approach a LGS near where he will be living. Is this is the best or only option?
Any suggestions on this?
Import permits already obtained and approved
Thank you in advance
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 30 Dec 2021, 9:45 am

If his local dealer is good then they are the people he'll want to be building a relationship with for the future, so I'd start with them.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Rider888 » 30 Dec 2021, 10:35 am

bladeracer wrote:If his local dealer is good then they are the people he'll want to be building a relationship with for the future, so I'd start with them.


Thank you. I’ll reach out to them today to see what they say
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by moopere » 30 Dec 2021, 2:10 pm

I wonder if this will prove worthwhile? I don't know if we're talking about pistols or rifles here but almost everywhere in the USA firearms are significantly cheaper than in Australia. The amount of money to be spent in transfer fees, shipping fees (dangerous goods? I'd expect so), the possibility of some form of tax being levied on the way in - and that before we even get to the paperwork and stress.

I wonder if it would prove better overall, cheaper anyway, to just give up the .22's here in Aus and buy from a local shop once settled in the USA?
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 30 Dec 2021, 2:18 pm

If he is a good friend of yours then please make him reconsider his move. WA is the worst place in the world to be a firearms owner and the US(even crappy states) are the best.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Rider888 » 30 Dec 2021, 2:44 pm

moopere wrote:I wonder if this will prove worthwhile? I don't know if we're talking about pistols or rifles here but almost everywhere in the USA firearms are significantly cheaper than in Australia. The amount of money to be spent in transfer fees, shipping fees (dangerous goods? I'd expect so), the possibility of some form of tax being levied on the way in - and that before we even get to the paperwork and stress.

I wonder if it would prove better overall, cheaper anyway, to just give up the .22's here in Aus and buy from a local shop once settled in the USA?


I’ve since found out that it’s 2 x .22 rifles, 2 x shotguns 5 round mag, 2 x 9mm and sadly he’s selling the AR over there
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Rider888 » 30 Dec 2021, 2:44 pm

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:If he is a good friend of yours then please make him reconsider his move. WA is the worst place in the world to be a firearms owner and the US(even crappy states) are the best.


I know. But he’s accepted a job over there and it’ll be good having him this way again
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 30 Dec 2021, 3:13 pm

moopere wrote:I wonder if this will prove worthwhile? I don't know if we're talking about pistols or rifles here but almost everywhere in the USA firearms are significantly cheaper than in Australia. The amount of money to be spent in transfer fees, shipping fees (dangerous goods? I'd expect so), the possibility of some form of tax being levied on the way in - and that before we even get to the paperwork and stress.

I wonder if it would prove better overall, cheaper anyway, to just give up the .22's here in Aus and buy from a local shop once settled in the USA?


Other way around, moving _to_ WA _from_ the US. If he's moving from California he'll feel right at home in WA, both places hate firearm ownership.

While some firearms can be cheaper in the US than here, I don't think the difference is significant when you add up our higher wages and other lifestyle costs. Buying a firearm from the US is very expensive, too expensive to be viable for anything you can already buy here, but whether those same export fees are applied to firearms you already own, I don't know. I don't think there are any additional fees or taxes applied to them upon arriving here, other than GST, which I don't think would apply to firearms he already owns.

But I agree, unless they have some sentimental value it's probably cheaper to just buy them here, especially if he's going to be paying for storage until he gets licenced. And if they do have sentimental value, WA is not the place to be taking them to, they will take every opportunity to find an excuse to seize and destroy them.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 30 Dec 2021, 3:21 pm

Rider888 wrote:
moopere wrote:I wonder if this will prove worthwhile? I don't know if we're talking about pistols or rifles here but almost everywhere in the USA firearms are significantly cheaper than in Australia. The amount of money to be spent in transfer fees, shipping fees (dangerous goods? I'd expect so), the possibility of some form of tax being levied on the way in - and that before we even get to the paperwork and stress.

I wonder if it would prove better overall, cheaper anyway, to just give up the .22's here in Aus and buy from a local shop once settled in the USA?


I’ve since found out that it’s 2 x .22 rifles, 2 x shotguns 5 round mag, 2 x 9mm and sadly he’s selling the AR over there


Find out exactly what they are to ensure they're not specifically prohibited, or CatC. 5rd shotguns for example sound more likely to be pump or semi, I don't think levers or straight-pulls are big over there. Pumps and semis are CatC, so even if he is coming here to work in pest control, he can only own one of them anyway. Same with the .22's if they're semis. He could apply for a collectors licence, but that can take years due to requiring a history of collector club membership, and means the firearms can never be fired. Handguns can also take a year before being licenced to own them. That's an awful lot of storage fees.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 30 Dec 2021, 3:24 pm

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:If he is a good friend of yours then please make him reconsider his move. WA is the worst place in the world to be a firearms owner and the US(even crappy states) are the best.


I agree, your friend is in for a rude awakening if he's an enthusiastic firearm owner. His meager collection doesn't sound like an enthusiast though, so he might just decide to forego shooting at least until he can get back out of WA.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 30 Dec 2021, 3:31 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Rider888 wrote:
moopere wrote:I wonder if this will prove worthwhile? I don't know if we're talking about pistols or rifles here but almost everywhere in the USA firearms are significantly cheaper than in Australia. The amount of money to be spent in transfer fees, shipping fees (dangerous goods? I'd expect so), the possibility of some form of tax being levied on the way in - and that before we even get to the paperwork and stress.

I wonder if it would prove better overall, cheaper anyway, to just give up the .22's here in Aus and buy from a local shop once settled in the USA?


I’ve since found out that it’s 2 x .22 rifles, 2 x shotguns 5 round mag, 2 x 9mm and sadly he’s selling the AR over there


Find out exactly what they are to ensure they're not specifically prohibited, or CatC. 5rd shotguns for example sound more likely to be pump or semi, I don't think levers or straight-pulls are big over there. Pumps and semis are CatC, so even if he is coming here to work in pest control, he can only own one of them anyway. Same with the .22's if they're semis. He could apply for a collectors licence, but that can take years due to requiring a history of collector club membership, and means the firearms can never be fired. Handguns can also take a year before being licenced to own them. That's an awful lot of storage fees.


WA is the only state that allows cat C shotguns for IPSC. So maybe that is an option.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Rider888 » 30 Dec 2021, 5:05 pm

I believe he does have the pump,action shotguns.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 30 Dec 2021, 10:16 pm

Rider888 wrote:I believe he does have the pump,action shotguns.


Then probably no point trying to bring them to Oz.
If he is a professional shooter he could apply for a CatC licence, which would allow him to own one pump/semi shotgun and one semi rimfire, but he could only use them on the specific properties they are licenced to. If he wanted another CatC gun or rimfire rifle he would have to sell the current one first.

Alternatively he could try a collectors licence, which might take a year or two to come through, but he would never be able to use the firearms in WA, anywhere, ever.

As CiC mentioned, he could apply for a CatC gun for IPSC usage only, no hunting, but if he's not interested in competition that would be annoying having to attend minimum shoots every year to maintain the licence. If he uses them for clay competition he could try applying for CatC for competition use only but would require medical grounds explaining why he needs to use a CatC gun over a CatA gun.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Rider888 » 31 Dec 2021, 7:34 am

bladeracer wrote:
Rider888 wrote:I believe he does have the pump,action shotguns.


Then probably no point trying to bring them to Oz.
If he is a professional shooter he could apply for a CatC licence, which would allow him to own one pump/semi shotgun and one semi rimfire, but he could only use them on the specific properties they are licenced to. If he wanted another CatC gun or rimfire rifle he would have to sell the current one first.

Alternatively he could try a collectors licence, which might take a year or two to come through, but he would never be able to use the firearms in WA, anywhere, ever.

As CiC mentioned, he could apply for a CatC gun for IPSC usage only, no hunting, but if he's not interested in competition that would be annoying having to attend minimum shoots every year to maintain the licence. If he uses them for clay competition he could try applying for CatC for competition use only but would require medical grounds explaining why he needs to use a CatC gun over a CatA gun.


He's already been issued with his approvals and permits
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2021, 10:07 am

Rider888 wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Rider888 wrote:I believe he does have the pump,action shotguns.


Then probably no point trying to bring them to Oz.
If he is a professional shooter he could apply for a CatC licence, which would allow him to own one pump/semi shotgun and one semi rimfire, but he could only use them on the specific properties they are licenced to. If he wanted another CatC gun or rimfire rifle he would have to sell the current one first.

Alternatively he could try a collectors licence, which might take a year or two to come through, but he would never be able to use the firearms in WA, anywhere, ever.

As CiC mentioned, he could apply for a CatC gun for IPSC usage only, no hunting, but if he's not interested in competition that would be annoying having to attend minimum shoots every year to maintain the licence. If he uses them for clay competition he could try applying for CatC for competition use only but would require medical grounds explaining why he needs to use a CatC gun over a CatA gun.


He's already been issued with his approvals and permits


He already has an Australian firearm licence, without being resident?
Definitely sounds strange, especially in WA.
A B709 import permit lists the dealer that is collecting the firearms from Border force, and dealers can have CatC firearms. But I thought (from memory) the import has to say who the eventual owner will be, and that person will have to already have the appropriate licence. Getting the firearms into a dealer's hands isn't a major issue, getting them transferred from the dealer to the individual is where it gets trickier, as the individual has to be licenced and have approved permits. I also had to give statements assuring I won't be selling the rifles to anybody else in an End-User Agreement. A dealer doing the import for transfer to somebody else doesn't have that restriction. I got my permits approved before I started ​the export process t​o ensure I didn't get stuck with firearms that I couldn't get approvals for, but also couldn't sell. Is he perhaps bringing them as a visitor rather than resident? That is a different situation I think, but visitors still can't possess firearms that are prohibited.

If the rifles are non-semi-auto then they are simple catA firearms that anybody can own. If the guns are not pump or semi then they are also CatA. There are some exceptions that are specifically prohibited for other reasons, like appearance.

I don't think a forum can offer useful advice based on such limited information though, so best to let the dealer handle it.

But I'm certainly curious now as to how this is being done :-)
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by ob1 » 31 Dec 2021, 5:00 pm

In short, too hard.

For handguns it will be training time/probation period whenever they decide ro run an induction of trainees after joining a club club then six months for first handgun. Then wait for second gun. Monthly storage fees with a dealer, then book fees, etc all the while. Finding a dealer who will be involved in the import process at a reasonable cost will be a good trick.

For longarms it will require suitable property letters for each, no public land hunting. Storage fees, etc again.

Lots of storage fees plus the associated application fees plus getting into a club. Add hours/weeks of associated dealing with government processes.

A nightmare in the making. A lot simpler to cash out then buy in Australia.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2021, 5:41 pm

ob1 wrote:In short, too hard.

For handguns it will be training time/probation period whenever they decide ro run an induction of trainees after joining a club club then six months for first handgun. Then wait for second gun. Monthly storage fees with a dealer, then book fees, etc all the while. Finding a dealer who will be involved in the import process at a reasonable cost will be a good trick.

For longarms it will require suitable property letters for each, no public land hunting. Storage fees, etc again.

Lots of storage fees plus the associated application fees plus getting into a club. Add hours/weeks of associated dealing with government processes.

A nightmare in the making. A lot simpler to cash out then buy in Australia.


Induction? Is that how CatH is done nowadays?
When I did it it was one-to-one training, not group training. I teed up a suitable time to meet the club's trainer at the range during the week and we did it all together, privately usually, though we did fit in a few sessions before and after competitions.

Definitely make sure he understands the situation here, he may be used to having public land to go out hunting or plinking whenever he feels the urge, as it should be. Here he can _only_ use his handguns at approved handgun ranges, nowhere else, at all. He can't take them hunting or to a rifle range, and he certainly can't carry them like free men can. Long guns he can get on a club licence very easily, but he can't then use them anywhere except at approved clubs.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by ob1 » 31 Dec 2021, 6:05 pm

That may still be the case for clubs that are not practical pistol movement-based matches in WA, but the old days of one-to-one training are long gone from some of the bigger practical pistol clubs in WA and some of the other target clubs schedule holster proficiency courses several times a year.

Clubs are moving to a process of casual visit to scope things out, then book an initial visit and vetting for formal requirements, apply for membership and wait for acceptance at a committee meeting, then book the next available training course (which may be several months away). Overseas experience is unlikely to count and the training course is another cost.

Some commercial venues and smaller clubs may still be doing one-to-one. West Coast (SSAA) and Pine Valley (IPSC) are scheduled groups for practical pistol.
Last edited by ob1 on 31 Dec 2021, 6:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 31 Dec 2021, 6:12 pm

Make sure you tell your friend he can't open or conceal carry or even use self defence.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2021, 6:43 pm

ob1 wrote:That may still be the case for clubs that are not practical pistol movement-based matches in WA, but the old days of one-to-one training are long gone from some of the bigger practical pistol clubs in WA and some of the other target clubs schedule holster proficiency courses several times a year.

Clubs are moving to a process of casual visit to scope things out, then book an initial visit and vetting for formal requirements, apply for membership and wait for acceptance at a committee meeting, then book the next available training course (which may be several months away). Overseas experience is unlikely to count and the training course is another cost.

Some commercial venues and smaller clubs may still be doing one-to-one. West Coast (SSAA) and Pine Valley (IPSC) are scheduled groups for practical pistol.


I was with Orange Grove, though they were Maddington pistol Club when I joined. I've only ever done IPSC, though I did attend Kununurra once to log a compliance shoot. They were a "stand still and fire five rounds in five minutes" club so I preferred to fly to Perth or Darwin for my shoots.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2021, 6:45 pm

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:Make sure you tell your friend he can't open or conceal carry or even use self defence.


We can use them for self defence, we can use anything, but we can't possess _anything_ for that specific purpose.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 31 Dec 2021, 8:45 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:Make sure you tell your friend he can't open or conceal carry or even use self defence.


We can use them for self defence, we can use anything, but we can't possess _anything_ for that specific purpose.



Yes you are correct. However the court case will be lengthy and is not a guaranteed sure thing.

Basically we have to use “reasonable force” under the circumstance as we don't have castle doctrine. If someone breaks into a house whilst being unarmed and you introduced a weapon you would have to explain to the court why you used disproportionate force.


Interestingly though in Queensland once you claim self defence the prosecution has the burden of proof put on them to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not self defence. I find that interesting as I would of thought like most laws the individual has to prove.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2021, 8:59 pm

True, but that's the same as most places, very few places allow a shooter to walk away from a shooting without a thorough investigation.


Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:Make sure you tell your friend he can't open or conceal carry or even use self defence.


We can use them for self defence, we can use anything, but we can't possess _anything_ for that specific purpose.



Yes you are correct. However the court case will be lengthy and is not a guaranteed sure thing.

Basically we have to use “reasonable force” under the circumstance as we don't have castle doctrine. If someone breaks into a house whilst being unarmed and you introduced a weapon you would have to explain to the court why you used disproportionate force.


Interestingly though in Queensland once you claim self defence the prosecution has the burden of proof put on them to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not self defence. I find that interesting as I would of thought like most laws the individual has to prove.
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 01 Jan 2022, 5:56 am

Did you ever see Sheriff Grady Judd? When America had those riots a year ago he warned would be rioters that if they try to do that in his county they will get killed. His county is the safest place in America.

“the people of Polk County like guns, they have guns.”
“ I encourage them to own guns, and they’re going to be inside their homes tonight with their guns loaded. And if you try to break into their homes tonight and try to steal, to set fires, I’m highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns”.


https://www.wate.com/news/florida-sheri ... like-guns/
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Re: Advice and Suggestions regarding Importing

Post by moopere » 02 Jan 2022, 1:52 pm

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:Did you ever see Sheriff Grady Judd? When America had those riots a year ago he warned would be rioters that if they try to do that in his county they will get killed. His county is the safest place in America.

“the people of Polk County like guns, they have guns.”
“ I encourage them to own guns, and they’re going to be inside their homes tonight with their guns loaded. And if you try to break into their homes tonight and try to steal, to set fires, I’m highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns”.


https://www.wate.com/news/florida-sheri ... like-guns/


I watched that one on YT.

Made me smile. Personal responsibility, its what makes things safe.

My goodness can you imagine any official in Australia, let alone a police official, getting away with such a voiced opinion?

That YT video alone made me look up Polk county FL to see whats what. Being in Florida residents also benefit from having DeSantis as their governor. Weather probably isn't that much different from say QLD here ... mmmm ... really makes you ponder ....
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