WA Firearm Law Reforms - Monday 16 October announcement

[Dess787]

I feel we need one new thread for the announcement which is only 5 days away.

Here are some of the things which have been mentioned, will be interesting to see what is announced.

-- Mandatory annual checks for shooters aged 80 and over

--Limit of 5 firearms for recreational shooting and hunting

--Limit of 10 firearms for farmers/land owners and competitive shooters

--new license type Primary producers license

--new license type junior competition license

--new license type shooting gallery license

--illegal to buy or sell property letters for benefit

--Cancellation of all property letters, everyone needs to reapply and there will be new limits of the number of letters per property

--Tighter storage requirements

--Whistlerblower law to encourage dobbing in breaches

--Convicted of certain violent offences , banned from having a firearms license

[1776]

Will they still have 12 month licences?

[Boundry Rider]

And there's no word on where this "draft for public consultation" is to be published...

I suppose it's normal to see non existent transparency governance from Walcatraz

[Dess787]

Seems like tomorrow is the day but here is a taster from today's West Australian

WA gun law overhaul: New legislation to ban gun owners from posessing more than 10 firearms
Headshot of Josh Zimmerman
Josh Zimmerman
The West Australian
Mon, 16 October 2023 12:01AM
Comments
Josh Zimmerman
Police Minister Paul Papalia will unveil the Cook Government's long-awaited rewrite of WA's outdated gun legislation on Tuesday. Inset: Weapons seized by WA Police in recent months.
Police Minister Paul Papalia will unveil the Cook Government's long-awaited rewrite of WA's outdated gun legislation on Tuesday. Inset: Weapons seized by WA Police in recent months. Credit: The West Australian

Individual gun owners will be banned from possessing more than 10 firearms under proposed new laws that will make WA the first jurisdiction in the country to impose a cap.

The Cook Government will on Tuesday unveil its long-awaited rewrite of WA’s 50-year-old firearms legislation, which is headlined by a major overhaul of the licensing system and the introduction of strict ownership limits.

The proposed laws — which will spend a month in public consultation before being finalised and introduced to Parliament next year — create eight distinct licence types.

Licenses awarded to individual gun owners will be slapped with ownership limits: a maximum of 10 for primary producers and club or competition shooters, and just five for recreational shooters.

Elite competitive shooters — such as those who represent WA in national or international tournaments — will be permitted to apply for special permission to own more than 10 firearms.

No other State or Territory currently imposes a maximum limit on individual gun ownership.

The laws will also create a digital licensing system, allowing prospective owners to complete part of the application process and licence renewals through an online portal supported by a “significantly upgraded IT system”.

That online system will also improve the real-time information available to frontline police officers when responding to incidents in the community.
‘Advanced stages’
Cook ‘hopes’ to overhaul WA gun laws by end of 2023

Josh Zimmerman

Police Minister Paul Papalia said only around 5 per cent of current gun owners would be impacted by the proposed limits but the measures would remove more than 10,000 weapons from properties across the State.

“Public safety is paramount, and that has been the key consideration when drafting the proposed legislation,” Mr Papalia said.

“If there are fewer firearms in the community, there are fewer opportunities for them to be used illegally.”

Details of a voluntary buyback scheme designed to compensate West Australians who currently own more than the permitted number of guns will be announced next year.

It will become the second buyback in the space of a year after the Government in February moved to ban 56 specific high-powered guns and 19 calibres of ammunition as part of Labor’s pledge to ensure WA boasts the toughest firearms laws in the country.

As was the case with the initial buyback, the Government will only compensate owners for their actual firearms — not ammunition or accessories.

The reforms strike a balance between legitimate, responsible gun ownership and enhanced public safety.

Premier Roger Cook said WA was the only jurisdiction that had not replaced its firearms laws since the Port Arthur massacre in 1996.

“The proposed changes will make WA a safer place and will modernise the way police record, monitor and enforce our firearm laws,” he said.

“The reforms strike a balance between legitimate, responsible gun ownership and enhanced public safety.”

In addition to individual licences, the new regime would create specific licence types for shooting clubs, ranges, firearms traders — capturing dealers, manufacturers and repairers — collectors and government entities.

Collectors would still be permitted to own more than 10 firearms — as is already the case — but will be barred from actually using their weapons.

WA has been rocked by a series of high-profile gun crimes in recent years, beginning with the brazen assassination of Former Rebels bikie boss Nick Martin at the Kwinana Motorplex in December 2021.

In May, a 15-year-old boy was arrested after allegedly taking two rifles from his father’s gun safe and opening fire outside Atlantis Beach Baptist College in a shocking school shooting that thankfully did not result in any casualties.

And earlier this month suburban Baldivis was the scene of a brazen drive-by shooting in while police allege multiple Rebels bikies sprayed bullets at Mongols member Adam Wragg.

Mr Papalia said the number of licensed guns in WA now topped 360,000 — a growth of 65 per cent since 2009 — and he was determined to reverse the trend.

“In addition to the proposed legislative changes, we have already stripped notorious crime figures and serious domestic violence offenders of their firearms and removed 280 unnecessarily high-powered guns from the community,” he said.

“This historic reform will make WA a safer place and will benefit future generations for decades to come.”

WA Police Commissioner Col Blanch — who has spearheaded the case for many of the crackdowns implemented by the Cook Government — said licensed firearms “can quickly become illicit firearms traded in the underworld”.

“That is why it is so important that we make sure that only firearms that need to be in the community remain licensed, and that they are stored and secured appropriately by their owners,” Mr Blanch said.

“My job and the job of my officers is to keep the community safe, and illicit firearms pose a significant risk to the safety of the community and to my officers — especially when in the hands of serious and organised crime groups.”

[Dess787]

https://thewest.com.au/politics/state-p ... c-12209079

[1776]

WA is really hell on Earth. Not that the other jurisdictions are much better. Remember WA was the first place in the Commonwealth to implement firearm licences.

[Boundry Rider]

Thanks Recruit for making the effort to post an update.

What hope is there with false statements like this;
“WA Police Commissioner Col Blanch — who has spearheaded the case for many of the crackdowns implemented by the Cook Government — said licensed firearms “can quickly become illicit firearms traded in the underworld”.”

Absolute rubbish statement, and attitude.

[1776]

Anything "can" become traded in the so called underworld. The likelihood however......

[Jackaroo]

Compensation amount non-negotiable
For those who are affected, the WA government has committed to funding a voluntary buyback scheme.

The value of compensation for surrendered guns would not be negotiable but will be calculated based on the type of firearm and when it was first licensed in Western Australia.

There will be no compensation paid for ammunition or accessories surrendered with firearms.

[Bazz]

Compensation amount non-negotiable
For those who are affected, the WA government has committed to funding a voluntary buyback scheme.

The value of compensation for surrendered guns would not be negotiable but will be calculated based on the type of firearm and when it was first licensed in Western Australia.

There will be no compensation paid for ammunition or accessories surrendered with firearms.

Speak to the people who lost their "high calibre" firearms recently on what they were offered. It was a pittance and the response was well, that's all we're going to give you. It didn't matter what the dealer had declared it was worth, it just seemed to be a share of the total buyback budget split among the number of firearms on their list. I feel terrible for those who were unable to get them licensed or sold to another State.

[1776]

Why is it a voluntary buyback scheme and not compulsory? If you don't wish to partake will they just take it anyway and give you nothing?

[Dess787]

ABC article and video

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-16/ ... /102979810

[Dess787]

The licence categories will be:

Primary producer
Individual
Trade
Business
Club
Ranges
Collector
Government

[Dess787]

Farmers saying they can live with 10

[Larry]

Farmers saying they can live with 10

And there is the biggest problem of all. The FUDDS it doesn't effect me so IDGAF

How does that little story go Then they came for mine

[womble]

Thanks Recruit for making the effort to post an update.

What hope is there with false statements like this;
“WA Police Commissioner Col Blanch — who has spearheaded the case for many of the crackdowns implemented by the Cook Government — said licensed firearms “can quickly become illicit firearms traded in the underworld”.”

Absolute rubbish statement, and attitude.

I think it references this “ Police Minister Paul Papalia said only around 5 per cent of current gun owners would be impacted by the proposed limits but the measures would remove more than 10,000 weapons from properties across the State.”

Ie: they are creating, as in “quickly become” more than 10,000 illicit firearms that were licensed yesterday .
And then they remove them.

So first they make the licensed owners criminals, then they remove their now illegal firearms.
Very efficient way to remove illegal guns from the “underworld” without actually removing illegal guns from the “underworld” because the current criminals’ guns they obviously can’t find as they have no records of them.
So they just make new criminals and it’s super easy to take their guns.

And they don’t even have to fight crime, because dangerous.
It’s quite brilliant, everyone gets a donut and nobody has to confront organised crime

[Vince24]

we should all send feedbacks on the police website as requested.

Are any other states mentioning that they should do the same?

[Vince24]

To me the main feedback is that the firearm limit, if there is to be one, should be modulated acccording to the dangerosity of the firearms - should they be stolen.

E.g. long collectible firearms should have no limits, 1 shot competition firearms should have no limit at all (nonody is going to commit crimes with a KK300), while we could indeed imagine a limit for modern handguns in popular powerful calibres.

[bladeracer]

To me the main feedback is that the firearm limit, if there is to be one, should be modulated according to the dangerosity of the firearms - should they be stolen.

E.g. long collectible firearms should have no limits, 1 shot competition firearms should have no limit at all (nobody is going to commit crimes with a KK300), while we could indeed imagine a limit for modern handguns in popular powerful calibres.

If they were going to base numbers on how dangerous lawfully-owned firearms are to the community then there would be no limits required.

[Vince24]

In any case we should all comment so that they don't get the feeling that nobody cares.
Maybe too late for WA, but we should think of the other states which may find inspiration in what WA is doing.

[on_one_wheel]

Sheeple rejoice, so many lives saved from those savage gun owners, now they can't kill you with more than 10 firearms at once, imagine the horror of being shot by one person with 11 firearms, you'd be dead 11 times as much ... Coming to a state near you soon

There goes the used gun market in WA, it'll be flooded with single shot .22 rifles and Adler shotguns already

Where does the SSAA Sstand on this ? ...I'd bet they're rubbing their hands together in glee thinking about the boost in competitive shooting interest

Perhaps we need a thread on "which firearms would you hand in first" or "which one last"

[thewoodsnsw]

ABC article and video

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-16/ ... /102979810

I don't live in WA of course but I was quite upset when I read this article! No one cares! Hopefully WA gun owners will get off their backsides (like Ozzie Reviews said on X.)

Australia already has draconian gun laws and so only having 10 (or 5 for some it seems) is just way too much to ask for.

Outside of gun owners, no one really cares -- so called "freedom movement," nationalists or anybody.... It's just disgusting. Next it will be only 1 firearm people will be allowed to have in the future! Other states could follow suit! (or they will...)

If the NFA wasn't good enough to be draconian for shooters, what is? They can never be satisfied! Facts over feelings is needed in the decision making process!

[on_one_wheel]

The end goal is zero private ownership, they will get there eventually, it's been a UN agenda for a very long time.

From their own website
Reducing the existing civilian stockpile. Disarming civilian populations is more difficult than disarming governments. Nevertheless it is arguably more necessary, given that civilians constitute the overwhelming majority not only of gun owners, but also of the victims and perpetrators of gun violence.

Us civilians ... the overwhelming majority

Perhaps they haven't got the memo on how many people have been killed fighting for governments with government issued firearms ?
Nope it's the target shooters, hunters and gang bangers that have killed millions and millions of people.

Seriously, I gave up giving a f#@k years ago, I'm not going to waste any time believing that me or us as a collective have a snowflakes hope in hell in making a difference, I'm just enjoying what freedom we have left and focusing my energy on realistic goals.
Our government will do as they please within the boundaries of our constitution. Unfortunately unlike the USA, we have no rights when it comes to our chosen sport.
We're literally one brave announcement away from a total private ownership ban at any given time, the hard work has already been done, they have a list of names, address, and most of the firearms are accounted for. Thanks to the prime minister who lived in such fear of firearms he wore a bullet proof vest in public.

[womble]

To me the main feedback is that the firearm limit, if there is to be one, should be modulated acccording to the dangerosity of the firearms - should they be stolen.

E.g. long collectible firearms should have no limits, 1 shot competition firearms should have no limit at all (nonody is going to commit crimes with a KK300), while we could indeed imagine a limit for modern handguns in popular powerful calibres.

It’s the “should they be stolen” reasoning that bothers me the most. Not from you Vince, but from the government.
It becomes a pre-emptive punishment on the victim of a crime, being theft.
What people own shouldn’t be decided by the risk of theft. And the victim of the theft shouldn’t be held accountable.
No one should have to live their lives like that. That’s why we have laws that make theft a crime. Only the thief should face punishment.

But this goes even further I think because it’s a wide scale assumption that all licensed firearm owners in the state are by default in some degree culpable of theft. Assigning the blame to them before any crime has been committed.

It’s this messed up ideology that these new laws are based on and I think it’s morally wrong. It’s no different than blaming the victim of a rape just for being there.
You are not responsible for a crime committed against you period.

And it goes beyond morality because it defines the society we all live in. A society where bad people hold influence over good people’s lives.

It’s the mistake that was made in 96 when we allowed a psychopath to become possibly the most influential individual in our modern history. We allowed him governance of our future. It was not his right to wield such power.
And we should never live our lives in fear of what may happen just because bad people exist. We should to the contrary live our lives without affording them any power over us. Without any fear of what they may do to us. Because in fearing them they hold power over us and dictate how we should go about our lives.

This legislation gives criminals power over our lives. And it is real power, well beyond any that any elected government holds in its limited term. It it eternally binding. It is effectively constituted. Power they will hold over your children and your children’s children.
And long after martin is dead he will still have this immortality . It was a mistake to grant him this. This legislation is an offshoot of that and it’s poison. It will grow like a cancer and spread to all other forms of legislation.
And we become a society of cowards. A society of victims. And in this case victims of crimes that have yet to manifest.
It is not strong and brave . It is weakness.
Dictated by a weak leader with a weak mind. And we don’t want this because we don’t want to be a weak people raising our children to be cowards.

John Howard chose to be a coward. It’s not the official narrative. But in our hearts we all know it. We will remember Paul Papalia the same. Perhaps we should mail him a vest.

[1776]

Every single firearms owner in WA who votes labor(not that the libs are much better) asked for this.

[Oldbloke]

Every single firearms owner in WA who votes labor(not that the libs are much better) asked for this.

Correction. Anyone who votes for any of the the major parties askes for this.

[Dess787]

Another thing i got from the tv news was that in some cases CCTV and Alarms will be required in addition to the safe requirements. I already have these

Zero mention of cancelling all property letters which would have been mentioned if that was the case. We will see today.

I think there will be tougher laws on property letters moving forward but no mass cancellations

[Dess787]

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/About-Us/O ... Act-Reform

Will have the info

also

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/About-Us/O ... elp-Centre

There are already some FAQs available


Licence types
Numeric limits
Storage requirements
Voluntary buyback scheme

[thewoodsnsw]

The end goal is zero private ownership, they will get there eventually, it's been a UN agenda for a very long time.

From their own website
Reducing the existing civilian stockpile. Disarming civilian populations is more difficult than disarming governments. Nevertheless it is arguably more necessary, given that civilians constitute the overwhelming majority not only of gun owners, but also of the victims and perpetrators of gun violence.

Us civilians ... the overwhelming majority

Perhaps they haven't got the memo on how many people have been killed fighting for governments with government issued firearms ?
Nope it's the target shooters, hunters and gang bangers that have killed millions and millions of people.

Seriously, I gave up giving a f#@k years ago, I'm not going to waste any time believing that me or us as a collective have a snowflakes hope in hell in making a difference, I'm just enjoying what freedom we have left and focusing my energy on realistic goals.
Our government will do as they please within the boundaries of our constitution. Unfortunately unlike the USA, we have no rights when it comes to our chosen sport.
We're literally one brave announcement away from a total private ownership ban at any given time, the hard work has already been done, they have a list of names, address, and most of the firearms are accounted for. Thanks to the prime minister who lived in such fear of firearms he wore a bullet proof vest in public.

I love your attitude. Good and wise post. But just keep in mind that some states in America suck for firearms -- you cannot conceal carry in NYC, it takes months and months to be able to do that in NYS and the last I heard there's only 1 gun shop left in San Francisco. So bear that in mind thinking that "America is better" mentality. They're going down too. Demographics will demand that and their constitution will be like some historic piece of paper like the UK's!

We live in a world where people only care about their own hobbies and not being lovable enough to care about other people. The only people who seem to do that are ambulance officers or fire fighter people. My experience with the so-called "freedom movement" was that they didn't care about gun owners at all. No headlines were noticeable to them. Same with nationalists, same with the "whatever's." We have the Libertarian party that's broad spectrum in their belief, I hate the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party (and I hate the ridiculous "tri-name."

Australians didn't value their constitution 30 years ago, they only had things like the "freedom movement" for people who lost jobs due to not having the jab basically! <insert whatever swear word you want here...> It took a dreadfully long time for a large number of Australians to get off their feet. Americans are not like that. Maybe the only exception in the last 25 years was mass protests in Australia over the Iraq war and that was pretty much it. It's pathetic. Most people only care about "their problems." There's nothing cohesive that unites people as a whole.

I am not surprised no one cares about the "10 firearms." I did say it upsets me personally but the broader community...... Nah.... They don't give a flying.... you know what. PEOPLE ONLY CARE ABOUT THEIR PROBLEMS OR THEIR HOBBIES!

[Dess787]

Yeah most of the public think 5 is too many !