WA Firearm Law Reforms - Monday 16 October announcement

[Dess787]

https://thewest.com.au/politics/wa-fire ... c-12218700

Yes there will be property letter crackdown and everyone will need health assessments !

WA Firearms Act: Paul Papalia announces selling letters that support gun licence applications to be banned
Headshot of Josh Zimmerman
Josh Zimmerman
The West Australian
Tue, 17 October 2023 12:01AM
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Josh Zimmerman
Selling letters supportive of gun licence applications will be banned as part of a complete overhaul of the ‘corrupted’ firearms system.
Selling letters supportive of gun licence applications will be banned as part of a complete overhaul of the ‘corrupted’ firearms system. Credit: Jackson Flindell/The West Australian

Selling letters that support gun licence applications will be banned as part of a complete overhaul of the “corrupted” system that allows hundreds of individuals to nominate the same property — often thousands of kilometres from where they live — as the location they intend to shoot.

Prospective gun owners must also complete a physical and mental health assessment and a mandatory training course before being granted a license.

The proposed changes — to be announced by Police Minister Paul Papalia on Tuesday — round out the Cook Government’s crackdown on gun ownership as part of a complete rewrite of the Firearms Act.

Central to the reforms are sweeping amendments to the property letter system, creating a lucrative industry for rural and remote property owners willing to sell documents authorising strangers to shoot on their land.

The Firearms Act requires gun owners to have a genuine need — such as hunting or shooting vermin — to own their weapons.
Police Minister Paul Papalia will unveil the Cook Government's long-awaited rewrite of WA's outdated gun legislation on Tuesday. Inset: Weapons seized by WA Police in recent months.
exclusive
‘Safety is paramount’
New gun laws to make WA first State to impose ownership cap

Josh Zimmerman

So-called property letters effectively satisfy that requirement by providing individuals with a reason to own and discharge a firearm.

Mr Papalia said too many people owned a gun “under the pretence of the outdated” property letter system.

“It’s not right that someone in a metropolitan suburb can buy a property letter authority online and use that as their only excuse to own a firearm,” he said.

“Reforming the written authority requirements will likely remove tens of thousands of guns from WA.”
Mr Papalia said too many people owned a gun “under the pretence of the outdated” property letter system.
Mr Papalia said too many people owned a gun “under the pretence of the outdated” property letter system. Credit: NCA NewsWire

The new laws — which will spend a month in public consultation before being finalised and introduced to Parliament next year — propose forcing every firearm owner to “revalidate” existing letters received either from a rural or remote property or a shooting club.

Strict new conditions will be placed on landowners and shooting clubs issuing such letters, including a requirement they first register through a new digital licensing system – which will require an assessment of their suitability.

In the case of property letters, WA Police will consider whether the land’s size, location and feral/vermin control requirements warrant the ability to issue supporting documents.

The Government also proposes limiting the number of letters a single property can issue and altogether banning seeking any remuneration in exchange for a property letter.

Property letters would also need to be renewed every year.

Failure by a gun owner to obtain a valid property letter through the new system would result in their existing licence being revoked.

There would be no limit on the number of letters an approved shooting club can issue, but they would be required to report any changes to their membership, with fines in place for failing to do so.

The other significant changes are introducing a mandatory firearm safety training course for prospective gun owners and requiring they complete both a physical and mental health check.
Premier Roger Cook, Police Minister Paul Papalia (pictured) and WA Police Commissioner Col Blanch outline key elements of WA’s proposed new Firearm Legislation.
“All new licence applicants must complete compulsory firearms handling training,” Mr Papalia said. Credit: Ian Munro/The West Australian

While the details of both are still to be decided, the Government expects the health checks to be compatible with telehealth and for the training to be easily accessible across the entire State.

“All new licence applicants must complete compulsory firearms handling training,” Mr Papalia said.

“Health assessments will also be required upon application, and every five years after that until 80 years of age where they must then be completed annually, similar to what is required for maintaining a driver’s licence.”

As revealed by The West Australian, the new laws also propose banning individual gun owners from possessing more than 10 firearms — making WA the first jurisdiction in the country to impose a cap.

[1776]

5 firearms is nothing. Different calibres, different actions, different models etc etc. Not to mention pistols and shotguns and collectables. It is rather easy to own over 30 firearms if you have a few of each calibre and action.

In Queensland cat A firearms do not require a genuine reason to posses. So you can by law, own an unlimited amount. Everything else requires a genuine reason be provided for each possession, with only cat C and D proposing limits for some licence classes.

[bladeracer]

“It’s not right that someone in a metropolitan suburb can buy a property letter authority online and use that as their only excuse to own a firearm,” he said.

It is absolutely right that anybody can do this if that is all that is required to satisfy genuine reason under the law, they made the stupid law the way it is and people are complying with it. Nowhere in the law does it require anybody to actually go and shoot on such a property.

[Bazz]

Another thing i got from the tv news was that in some cases CCTV and Alarms will be required in addition to the safe requirements. I already have these

Zero mention of cancelling all property letters which would have been mentioned if that was the case. We will see today.

I think there will be tougher laws on property letters moving forward but no mass cancellations

Swing and a miss unfortunately Dess. Did your application make it onto the portal in the end? I wonder if delaying them would be a tactic they'd employ...

Yearly property letters is an absolute joke!

[Dess787]

Document is now available here

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/About-Us/O ... Act-Reform

[Dess787]

Lot to take in, doesn't go into detail about length of time you need to be a club member before you can register firearms, has this changed ?

[Bazz]

Ahhhh......want to maybe proof read the proposed Bill before you release it for comment? Am I target shooting on A or B?!?

[Oldbloke]

Ahhhh......want to maybe proof read the proposed Bill before you release it for comment? Am I target shooting on A or B?!?

[mchughcb]

Well ole WA sure got them new heritage laws worked out eh?

[Faedy]

I am 100% gutted.
15 firearms will have to go for bugger all compo, 20k in scopes etc worthless, 10k in reloading components/ammo, 5k in reloading equipment, annealing gear bla bla.
It's as bad as saying goodbye to family members. I've had some for 50yrs.

[Oldbloke]

I am 100% gutted.
15 firearms will have to go for bugger all compo, 20k in scopes etc worthless, 10k in reloading components/ammo, 5k in reloading equipment, annealing gear bla bla.
It's as bad as saying goodbye to family members. I've had some for 50yrs.

That really sucks.

[Dess787]

Faedy, i also am sad about your situation, Papulia sucks !

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/ ... b65f0b2b71

I know this is in Sydney, but we could do with a few months with NO gun related crimes in the media

[1776]

A shooting in Sydney? Happens nearly daily.

[Bazz]

I am 100% gutted.
15 firearms will have to go for bugger all compo, 20k in scopes etc worthless, 10k in reloading components/ammo, 5k in reloading equipment, annealing gear bla bla.
It's as bad as saying goodbye to family members. I've had some for 50yrs.

Really sorry to hear mate. Sadly this is going to be a common story for us. It's so f****d

[bladeracer]

I am 100% gutted.
15 firearms will have to go for bugger all compo, 20k in scopes etc worthless, 10k in reloading components/ammo, 5k in reloading equipment, annealing gear bla bla.
It's as bad as saying goodbye to family members. I've had some for 50yrs.

Can you look for a better paying job in the east?

[womble]

Is there any sort of resistance movement that could smuggle him and his guns across the border.
Perhaps another state could grant him asylum.

Really feel bad for you Faidy, so unfair.
You can live an exemplary life, upstanding good citizen. Yet still they would do this to you for no valid reason. Hope it doesn’t leave you too bitter.
Just stupid laws made by stupid people and unfortunately there’s no cure for stupid

[Boundry Rider]

I am 100% gutted.
15 firearms will have to go for bugger all compo, 20k in scopes etc worthless, 10k in reloading components/ammo, 5k in reloading equipment, annealing gear bla bla.
It's as bad as saying goodbye to family members. I've had some for 50yrs.

Can you look for a better paying job in the east?

I have escaped, and I feel better for it.
I am glad I read between the lines and made a run for it early enough.
However I still feel sick and ashamed to be an Australian after yesterdays announcement.

[Oldbloke]

Just treating their own citizens like sh1t.
Reminds me of hitler.

Never vote for the main parties.

[1776]

Whilst WA sucks and is the cream of the sh*t, the rest of the Commonwealth is not much better. It is not the country we grew up in, so the sense of pride has evaporated. I really could not care less about the country anymore.

Instead of punishing people who commit crimes Australians love to punish law abiding citizens.

[Dess787]

Jesus, this is all we need ! Even though it is apparently not a firearm licensed to him

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/the-vine ... c-12243844


The Vines gunman: Police swarm Hodnet Bend after disturbance involving a man armed with a gun
Lauren Price and Phil HickeyThe West Australian
Wed, 18 October 2023 1:33PM
The incident unfolded at about 9.30am when officers were called to reports of a disturbance between a man and a woman at a home in Hodnet Bend in The Vines.
The incident unfolded at about 9.30am when officers were called to reports of a disturbance between a man and a woman at a home in Hodnet Bend in The Vines. Credit: Matthew Beilken

Police are hunting a possible gunman after a dramatic incident unfolded in Perth’s Swan Valley region on Wednesday morning.

Blake Unkovich, 28, is believed to be in possession of a shotgun and travelling on foot. The incident unfolded at about 9.30am when officers were called to reports of a disturbance between a man and a woman at a home in Hodnet Bend in The Vines.

Upon attendance, officers located a woman inside the home and her welfare was accounted for.However, police are still hunting for Mr Unkovich, who was last seen about 10am this morning and tactical response group officers, along with Polair, have been sent to the scene to investigate.

Following the incident, Mr Unkovich asked some trade workers at a nearby building site for a lift.
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He was dropped at a home on Strinesdale Boulevard in Aveley and was last seen about 10am.

A nearby trade worker, Ray O’donahue, said he was just arriving at a client’s house when Unkovich approached him and some colleagues with a “massive laceration” on his arm that was bleeding out.

“One of my guys asked if he was alright and then he tried to open the driver’s door,” Mr O’Donahue said.

“He had a massive laceration across his forearm opened about an inch wide and gushing blood everywhere.
Mr Unkovich was dropped at a home on Strinesdale Boulevard in Aveley and was last seen about 10am.
Mr Unkovich was dropped at a home on Strinesdale Boulevard in Aveley and was last seen about 10am. Credit: Matthew Beilken/Supplied

“He said he had been stabbed and we had to take him to the hospital. One of the guys said ‘nah we don’t live here we’re working, I’ll call you an ambulance’, then he replied abruptly ‘no ambulances no police’.

“He then randomly said ‘We’ll I’m going to woolies!’”

The police plane came and was circling for about an hour. It wasn’t until later in the day we saw what had happened.”

One neighbour said he was not surprised that police had swarmed the street in the morning, as he had heard “constant yelling and screaming” from the home in the past.

“I just saw all the TRG vans rock up,” he said.

“There were ambos, police, everything everywhere.
WA Police Inspector Geoff DeSanges said on Wednesday afternoon that it is believed there is no danger to the public, however, police are very keen to locate him due to the firearm possession.
WA Police Inspector Geoff DeSanges said on Wednesday afternoon that it is believed there is no danger to the public, however, police are very keen to locate him due to the firearm possession. Credit: Matthew Beilken/Supplied

“You could hear police on the megaphone saying ‘make yourself known for police we have the place surrounded’.

“They even had a negotiator with them.

“But I wasn’t surprised, there’d been altercations there before.”

Another neighbour said she was told by police to go back inside her home and lock the door.

Police are urgently seeking the public’s help to locate the 28-year-old.

WA Police Inspector Geoff DeSanges said on Wednesday afternoon that it is believed there is no danger to the public, however, police are very keen to locate him due to the firearm possession.
Police are urgently seeking the whereabouts of 28-year-old man Blake UNKOVICH, who was last seen in The Vines and surrounding area today, 18 October 2023
Police are urgently seeking the whereabouts of 28-year-old man Blake UNKOVICH, who was last seen in The Vines and surrounding area today, 18 October 2023 Credit: WA Police/WA Police

“The man left the premises with what we believe was a firearm, a long arm so some sort of rifle indications though it could be a 12 gauge shotgun,” he said.

“We’re very keen of course to obtain that firearm and at the moment, the location of it is unknown. So until such time as we can locate that firearm and this man, we will be concerned.

“There is no risk to the community other than the obvious one that there is a firearm that’s in the community in the possession of someone that we’re seeking to retrieve.

“We believe this incident is isolated and there are no direct threats to any individual.”
Police are still probing the circumstances of the incident and it is understood the firearm is not licenced to Mr Unkovich.
Police are still probing the circumstances of the incident and it is understood the firearm is not licenced to Mr Unkovich. Credit: Matthew Beilken/Supplied

Insp Geoff DeSanges urged the public to remain vigilant as Mr Unkovich has a significant injury to his arm and he is believed to be travelling on foot.

Police are still probing the circumstances of the incident and it is understood the firearm is not licenced to Mr Unkovich.

The man and woman are in a domestic relationship however the exact nature of it remains unclear.

Mr Unkovich is described as approximately 178cm tall, of medium build with brown hair and green eyes.

He was last seen wearing a black long-sleeved jumper and dark pants.

If sighted, members of the public should not approach the man. They need to call police immediately on 131 444.

[Dess787]

and today

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/ ... /102997342

Yeah laws will pass

[mchughcb]

Just one case is unacceptable.
Just like one covid case in WA was unacceptable. We have the power to eliminate it by removing everyone and everything.

[Fionn]

The proposed changes to "fit and proper person" are interesting.

[Oldbloke]

Yes, "interedting" is one wsy of putting it. So if WA police dont like your "opinion" they take your firesrms or refuse to renew your licence.

Resized_tempFileForShare_20231020-004314_723354974043345.jpeg (266.45 KiB) Viewed 158906 times

[womble]

Wow. It dose’nt really specify which views, opinions or living arrangements are the correct ones.

But it’s not that difficult to assume. New applicants would be wise to heap praise on the state and glorious leader. Ideally have a picture of him in your home in a prominent area.
A donation to the party wouldn’t hurt either. Probably prudent and likely expected.

[womble]

I’m pretty sure that’s unconstitutional.
You’re still a subject of the King even if you reside in WA.
I’m no expert but I think this legislation should be brought to the attention of the governor of WA and perhaps the governor general.

[1776]

Views opinion and attitude? Way of living? That is very scary but I would say would legally be hard for the police to prove. But spending 30 grand on a court challenge is not available to most people.

Queensland has "in the public interest" as its blanket statement to refuse a licence if they don't like you.

If you are not a criminal or a crack addict then you are fit and proper.

[Fionn]

I’m pretty sure that’s unconstitutional.

It's not.

I’m no expert but I think this legislation should be brought to the attention of the governor of WA and perhaps the governor general.

No need to bring it to the Governor's attention, as they are required to give the Act, Royal assent for it to become law.

Its extremely rare that they would not give an Act Royal assent.

[Fionn]

Views opinion and attitude? Way of living? That is very scary but I would say would legally be hard for the police to prove. But spending 30 grand on a court challenge is not available to most people.

Their is nothing for the Police to prove in regard to this, it allows them to take it into consideration.

Queensland has "in the public interest" as its blanket statement to refuse a licence if they don't like you.

If you are not a criminal or a crack addict then you are fit and proper.

While a lot of laws have a "fit an proper person" section, I don't think any other law has defined "fit and proper person" like this. So its very interesting that they are going down this path.

The reason behind it is most likely to stop people circumventing the laws and to stop people having access to firearms who shouldn't. Given the rampant abuse/circumventing by WA firearm owners regarding property letters, this is the flip side to it, clamping down on all grey areas.

[womble]

I’m pretty sure that’s unconstitutional.

It's not.

I’m no expert but I think this legislation should be brought to the attention of the governor of WA and perhaps the governor general.

No need to bring it to the Governor's attention, as they are required to give the Act, Royal assent for it to become law.

Its extremely rare that they would not give an Act Royal assent.

I was not aware of the latter, thanks. Disappointing though. Very disappointed in the governor.

Constitutional though ?
I’d say it’s untested. I think they’re pushing the envelope sections 116 and 117.
Section 115 they get around by offering “fair” compensation. And that’s dicey too because what value your property has to you isn’t necessarily just monetary.
Are the terms for the acquisition of your property truly just ? That’s a morality and fairness question.
Does it relate to your property in your possession. Might argue it does not.

The high court has previously been fairly liberal with 116 on the basis that additional rights are implied.
Can you have freedom of religion without the right to discuss and debate political issues. Not really.
“A Persons views, opinions and attitudes” - what does that mean. What can it mean outside of religion and politics. There’s not much else.

And sect 117 . Discrimination on the basis of state of residency . What sets the bar for that really. WA is outnumbered in its approach to this.

I don’t know and appreciate your input Fionn.
I think we all know how important it is for this to be challenged. It will set a precedent for other states and they will follow suit.

Beyond constitutional theres the inclusion of physical health. There are legal protections and they wont win on those grounds. No chance, cost’s awarded