WA Firearm Law Reforms - Monday 16 October announcement

[Oldbloke]

They have NFI.

https://youtu.be/QCpI5tYQOKQ?si=3g7NM4KKaJvbcr6a

Perhaps its stand up comedy.

[bladeracer]

Some are missing the point.
The letter system was stupid in the first place.

Only WA has that.

Victoria also has a letter system.

Not like WA's though, here we can own firearms for hunting on private property without requiring written permissions. In WA you need a property letter for each firearm you want to hunt with.

[Fionn]

Some are missing the point.
The letter system was stupid in the first place.

Only WA has that.

Victoria also has a letter system.

Not like WA's though, here we can own firearms for hunting on private property without requiring written permissions. In WA you need a property letter for each firearm you want to hunt with.

Its still a letter system, that was the point and Oldbloke claimed only WA has a letter system is factually incorrect.

The letter system in Victoria has similar nuances also that most people don't know about.

[womble]

Its not looking good for WA LFAO and the proposed bill, another shooting incident is WA https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-22/ ... /103007076

Somehow I don’t think these laws would have deterred that individual. Would seem he was well past the point of law abiding.
Seems irrelevant to the proposed bill.

[womble]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
There will be a percentage of non compliance.
The state has failed to provide appropriate legislation to regulate ownership . Once again.
Of no benefit to shooters and certainly of no benefit to the greater community.
History repeats. Guns will go underground.

Rubbish, the Government is correcting the abuse of the laws, LAFO are to blame for the changes because they couldn't police themselves so the government is stepping in to do so.

It benefit's to non firearms owners as their are less firearms in the general public and less people owning firearms for non genuine reasons.

That's why it will pass, as its simple and makes sense to non firearm owners.

The vast majority will comply.
Some won’t.
That’s why we have amnesties.
This is not the first buy back we’ve seen. But it’s the first in a very long time and we still get a tremendous amount of firearms surrendered in amnesties.
I suspect it’s likely why we have an open amnesty, because the reported annual figures of surrendered firearms were so high as to embarrass our tough laws endeavours.
As said , the vast majority will comply, but also as an asside these types of laws encourage this misbehaviour. Some people are dishonest. They may never intend for those firearms to be misused.
Consider the perspective of someone who sees this governance as an insight into a bad future for their children. History strongly suggests as such. A government that does not trust it’s good citizens hardly inspires trust in itself.
Generations pass and times change. And sometimes those firearms fall into the wrong hands.

And then theres the perception of a volatile world/ uncertain future which we inevitably won’t be so immune from. That perception existed for some in the last buy back.

Not my perceptions, only relaying them. Some people are just a bit nuts.

And so, by default this will lead to an increase in the amount of unregistered/unregulated firearms circulating in the community. Can only speculate how much. May justify it as temporary. But how temporary. Firearms and munitions can function for a very long time.

If we must have these laws it would be wiser to grandfather firearms to existing owners and apply the laws to new applications.
Then we guarantee we know where the guns are.
If they’re going to do this, they should do it properly. And learn from past mistakes.

And I reiterate, not surrendering not advisable, very dumb and could land you in jail for a very long time. Not worth the risk.
You can’t take them with you when you go and then what happens with them.

[Oldbloke]

In 10 years the the feral animal issues WA is going to have will be huge.

As far as public safety goes these changes will do SFA.
The criminals and drug smugglers will just keep on, keeping on. WA police need to start policing.
Judges need to stop being soft.
Try locking up the criminals for longer, better still bring back hanging for murder. I wont be complaining about the slightly higher taxes

Why should any LAFO have his sport restricted in this way because a criminal steals or imports a firearm and shoots someone? Keep in mind not many LAFO run around shooting members of the public or carrying out home invasions. Blind freddy can see that.

What is happening is they are punishing LAFOs for criminals actions.

Yes, ok. We have a "letter system". Ive been reminded. Havnt used it for perhaps 30yrs. But its workable. And there are alternatives. The intent is simply to show you have somewhere to hunt. Unlike the WA system that was designed to restrict firearm ownership. It back fired.

And what they are trying to do will back fire.
The criminals and drug smugglers will just keep on, keeping on.

[Oldbloke]

1,116 fatalities in AU 2021
Some people are under the influence of drugs and alcohol, speeding, and generally not abiding by the laws. Some even committ suicide using a car. Cars are often used in crimes and are often stolen due to poor security.

In order to improve public safety the gruberment will,

Limit car ownwership to 1 per family.
Licences will be renewed annually after the completion of a test.
All cars will need an annual inspection at the State inspection center.
Upon retirement all drivers must submit to a mental and medical assesment every year.
All drivers will require a letter to prove you need to drive to each workplace within 14days.
Limit your milage to 5,000kms PA
You may only have a ute if you can prove the need, such as being delivery driver.
You will need to nominate a supermarket where you will buy all of your groceries.
If you wish to go to a different supermarket you must login to the police driving website and book it 24hrs before driving there.
Same as above for fuel.
You must login and book your trip if you drive to a location other than for work, groceries or fuel 24hrs prior to undertaking the trip.
Licence and registration costs will now treble to cover the cost of administering this well thought out Act to ensure you safety on the roads.

Unfortunately due to the additional police workloads, 50% of road repair costs will now be diverted to assist the police.

All penalties will double except for first nations people, many dont work so penalties for them will reduce by 50%.


https://www.officeofroadsafety.gov.au/d ... ities-data

Have a safe day everyone.

[Dess787]

Ban all alcohol, how many lives would that save ?

Ban swimming pools, kids drown in them

Ban the beach, people drown

Ban all contact sports (AFL, rugby etc), people die playing them

The cops play on the public's ignorance of firearms. You go into a metalwork shop, there are dozens of tools just as dangerous as guns if misused or used recklessly

[Oldbloke]

Ban all alcohol, how many lives would that save ?

Ban swimming pools, kids drown in them

Ban the beach, people drown

Ban all contact sports (AFL, rugby etc), people die playing them

The cops play on the public's ignorance of firearms. You go into a metalwork shop, there are dozens of tools just as dangerous as guns if misused or used recklessly

I agree, ban them all. Fishing and boating too.

[Oldbloke]

The thing is, when they have finished, these sorts of blokes wont be around any more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Sing

[straightshooter]

Does anybody on this forum understand that each state in Australia is what might effectively be termed a Police State.
By that I mean no individual in any of the states has any rights. We only have privileges that may be granted or more often constrained or withdrawn at the stroke of a pen and the only recourse we might ever possibly have is at the next election, if it is ever held, and there is an acceptable alternative.
This is something the latte sipping chattering classes do not grasp let alone shooters.
Hitherto the Police State has been quite benevolent but that can change at any time for any reason for any group or for all.
In the past I have pointed out the passage in the NSW constitution that enables what I have described above but it took a while to find the equivalent in the WA constitution where it is cleverly obscured.
This is the relevant part and I have highlighted the key words, the rest can be regarded as supplementary blah.
Constitution Act 1889
Miscellaneous Part VII
s. 73
Part VII — Miscellaneous
73. Legislature as constituted by this Act empowered to alter
any of its provisions
(1) Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, the
Legislature of the Colony shall have full power and authority,
from time to time, by any Act, to repeal or alter any of the
provisions of this Act. Provided always, that it shall not be
lawful to present to the Governor for Her Majesty’s assent any
Bill by which any change in the Constitution of the Legislative
Council or of the Legislative Assembly shall be effected, unless
the second and third readings of such Bill shall have been
passed with the concurrence of an absolute majority of the
whole number of the members for the time being of the
Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly respectively.
Provided also, that every Bill which shall be so passed for the
election of a Legislative Council at any date earlier than by
Part III provided, and every Bill which shall interfere with the
operation of sections 69, 70, 71, or 72, or of Schedules B, C,
or D, or of this section, shall be reserved by the Governor for the
signification of Her Majesty’s pleasure thereon 10, 11.

Perhaps forum members in other states can read their constitutions and look for a similar passages.

[Dess787]

Whilst IPSC does come across to the uneducated as training for assassins, the olympic shooting sports, Trap, Skeet etc really do come across as elegant, skilled and 'safe''

Would be good to get some olympians in Skeet and Trap on our side.

[womble]

True enough straightshooter, we’re well and truly screwed. States hold full power on firearms. I’ve been reading a bit . Hurts my brain.
The only option we have is to create a religion. That hasn’t been tried yet. Every thing else has.
For a deity we have a choice between Vulcan the Roman one or Hephaestus the Greek one. Either is fine.
His son on earth obviously Ned Kelly. He had this country figured out fairly early on. And not much has changed really.
I mean they don’t wear the red coats anymore, but they’re still the same pompous twats.

No offence to Fionn intended. Or my local dfo actually. He’s pretty cool. They’re not all bad, just the WA ones. Nasty people.

[Oldbloke]

No, we are not police states.
Intent is to eliminate firearms from citizens and it will work.
It will be so difficult and expensive that many will toss it in. Then gun shops will close and the few shooters left will have no way to get ammunition or components.

But the criminals will just keep, keepining on.
Murders will continue and cats foxes etc will be totally out of control.

[womble]

Wikipedia's definition of a police state reads like a travel brochure for Western Australia

[Oldbloke]

WA is not a police state. However i agree they seem to have a big say.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state

[1886]

It's not looking good for WA LFAO and the proposed bill, another shooting incident is WA https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-22/ ... /103007076

Seems this individual was apparently well known to the Police and his record would certainly be cause for concern.

The West Australian newspaper subsequently reported the following;

"His list of charges included having care or control of a child and engaged in conduct that was reckless and may result in that child suffering, urging or setting a dog to attack or chase any person or animal,

He was also charged with being armed or pretending to be armed in a way that may cause fear, obstructing officers, possessing a prohibited drug and drug paraphernalia,

Also faced a count of threated to kill, being armed or pretending to be armed in a way that may cause fear unlawful assault and thereby did bodily harm with aggravating circumstances "

WA shooters and the public may be wondering why our intrepid Minister for Police hasn't been grandstanding about this to support his actions against LFAO's concerning public safety.

Well it would seem that his Labor minders may have indicated this might not be a good case for him to crow about to support his actions against LFAO's as despite all these serious charges and the guys multitude of serious discretions the answer lies here.

After all this he was OUT ON BAIL. You have to be kidding. So the members of the public who were traumatized by this guys actions were put in a serious situation basically due to the Govt's, WAPOL and the Judiciary actions.

No wonder the "Minister for Public Safety" hasn't commented.

[Oldbloke]

"After all this he was OUT ON BAIL. You have to be kidding. So the members of the public who were traumatized by this guys actions were put in a serious situation basically due to the Govt's, WAPOL and the Judiciary actions."

And later it will still be added to the statistics and used against us.

And this is the problem. If criminals/bastards keep getting let off with easy/soft or no punishment all that happens is the system teaches them that its ok to continue breaking the law.
Im reliably informed by someone that works in the system that the prisons in Vic are currently at about 50% capacity, not over flowing as has been reported.
This practice of accepting excuses and giving these bastards multiple chances needs to stop.

Lock them up.

[Dess787]

Maybe its because there is more focus on them or i am on the lookout for them more, but i don't remember there being more negative gun related news stories in close succession

There have been over 5 the last few weeks

They just make it harder and harder to rebut the reforms

[Dess787]

Papalia is going to just forge through with these reforms with no resistance. Very sad

[Oldbloke]

1 month for submissions, Papalia must be a nazi.


https://sportingshooter.com.au/news/pap ... ead%20More

[womble]

He dose’nt need to be a good person. He only needs to be good at his job. Which given his rank suggests he’s exemplary.
I no longer wish to fight him bare fisted apon learning of his sas past. I think that might be dangerous for me. Besides I might put my back out.
There’s no nazi or far right , white supremacy, crap linked to him so that’s a bit silly. There’s no kkk in WA. Which conveniently rhymes. I like rhymes.
I don’t like him for his current actions and that’s all.
I just think he’s out of step with the approaches of other states. Which I think matters given we share a continent. And i don’t see any real benefit in these reforms. I disagree with the approach and I’ve outlined my concerns.
But we have to play the ball not the man.
If anything he’s quite unfazed with himself being attacked and that’s just a diversion.
I believe his plan has unforeseen consequences in the longer term and I don’t see it preventing a tragedy or having any real effect on misuse of firearms. I think he’s over confident and should listen and consider other opinions in the lafo community. And address those concerns.
I would hope he would consider grandfathering existing firearms to existing owners with the benefits of knowing well the owners and locations of those firearms. It’s an olive branch and a win win.
A blanket approach is unrealistic and a towards zero policy is unrealistic. Inevitably it will backfire and that could in future put members in unnecessary danger against unknown risks. Better to have a safe and mutually respectful plan of of monitoring imho.
A recent press release commending their state of the art registry means it’s not. And Western Australia history with firearms means it’s very much not. So this is a genuine concern.
Other states heavily encourage registration without inciting fear of seizure.

Western Australia has a massive coastline and its paramount to distinguish law abiding and non law abiding because the future for illicit firearms is here. Other states are taking different approaches and putting wins on the board.

When was the last time wapol displayed a cache of illegal weapons. They haven’t. In fact they’ve seized legal and approved ones and implied they’ve removed guns from criminals and terrorists. The public are not that stupid and thats not what we’re paying them for.

[womble]

Yeah we’re not entitled to free speech here sorry. We don’t have that one.

It’s also possible to be a dictator without being a nazi. I don’t think Julius Caesar was a nazi because they didn’t exist at the time.
Nevertheless he pretty much invented the job and he personally didn’t have a problem with the Jews. One of his predecessors did.
And certainly one of his successors really really did , big time.

[womble]

Anyone who supports gun control has to be a bad person or why else would they want free men to be disarmed? The only reason for wanting people to be disarmed is because you want to do bad things to them.

That’s true Alex Jones and good of you to join us. I will add a fresh roll of tinfoil to my grocery list and insist that it’s fresh and no substitutes.
But I must point out that there have also been examples of people with guns doing bad things to others. Take Sandy Hook elementary school for example.

[alexjones]

Anyone who supports gun control has to be a bad person or why else would they want free men to be disarmed? The only reason for wanting people to be disarmed is because you want to do bad things to them.

That’s true Alex Jones and good of you to join us. I will add a fresh roll of tinfoil to my grocery list and insist that it’s fresh and no substitutes.
But I must point out that there have also been examples of people with guns doing bad things to others. Take Sandy Hook elementary school for example.

And that bloke who did sandy hook is dead from a self inflicted gun wound. Had he been captured he would of had life imprisonment or possibly death penalty.

Punish the people who do bad things not everybody else.

Nobody on this site killed 35 people in a small town in Tasmania yet we get molested for the actions of the person who did.

[alexjones]

Another shooting in Perth dated 3 hours ago.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/wooro ... 50cedcf32f

[Oldbloke]

Yeah we’re not entitled to free speech here sorry. We don’t have that one.

It’s also possible to be a dictator without being a nazi. I don’t think Julius Caesar was a nazi because they didn’t exist at the time.
Nevertheless he pretty much invented the job and he personally didn’t have a problem with the Jews. One of his predecessors did.
And certainly one of his successors really really did , big time.

OK i withdraw nazi because he might not be. But he is certainly a dictating kunt.

[womble]

Plenty of police are also recreational licensed shooters so that’s a baseless falsehood .
And it stands to reason that as such they’re in favour of it.

[Oldbloke]

Once Papilia ensures this is rammed through both houses there will be additional consequences.

Accessories/loading gear will have to be surrendered as they will be illegal to own without a licence in WA.
Including spare stocks, triggers, etc which are to be classified as major components.
Ammo, reloading components, projectiles, cases, dies, and cartridges no longer licenced to you.
Also all powder, primers, presses, and "means of manufacturing ammo" (if you no longer have a centrefire.)

And no compensation. And no way to sell it interstate.

No more hunting, so that gear will be useless.
Do you own a 4x4 purchased mainly for hunting, time to trade it in.

The shooting hunting industry will collapse.

And someone will be paying big time when, dogs, fox, cats, pig, deer, donkeys, camel etc numbers multiply and the helecopters are brought in.

And more police hired, because drug dealers dont GAF about gun laws.

[womble]

Why are we bickering amongst ourselves ?

Not really. 95% agree its crap. Just 1 or 2 non-shooters think what Papalia is doing is ok.

You have a comprehension problem.
No one thinks it’s ok.
Much time and effort has been put it to explain that what Papalia is doing is legitimate and therefore not wrong.
No one likes it or agrees with it, but he’s not in the wrong. And we have no recourse.
If you don’t want to understand what you’re up against then how do you plan to overcome it.