Anchors for gun safes - new WA regulations

[Wapiti]

Well look up that council down south that's stopping you having collector cars in your sheds and doing your own mods and servicing. Casey Council I think.

As far as I'm concerned, green scum with no practical skills, no measurable success at business, trades or Nation-building, should NEVER have any influence in ANYTHING to do with this country.
How can we expect non-achievers to understand the pain it gives others, to make decisions, sack people from their job for whatever reason and have to consider the effects of that on their families, reward people for making you prosper, respect other like minded people and always pay your way and settle debts, or judge people in society.

People vote for the very opposite of this, liars, backstabbers and pretenders, and expect a fair result?

[geoff]

NIOA is Australia's biggest gun dealer. It is advantageous that they are friendly with the most powerful man on the planet(President of the USA).

I just wish they did more to use their influence to get Australia some freedoms back.

Elon has commented about tyranny in Australia during the scamdemic, so I hope NIOA somehow get onto Elon and he pumps money into freedom causes for us Australians.

I will buy a Tesla and a starlink just pump billions into a Australian freedom lobby please Elon.

Word salad

[alexjones]

NIOA is Australia's biggest gun dealer. It is advantageous that they are friendly with the most powerful man on the planet(President of the USA).

I just wish they did more to use their influence to get Australia some freedoms back.

Elon has commented about tyranny in Australia during the scamdemic, so I hope NIOA somehow get onto Elon and he pumps money into freedom causes for us Australians.

I will buy a Tesla and a starlink just pump billions into a Australian freedom lobby please Elon.

Word salad

Stockholm Syndrome victim.

[safeshot]

It is utterly sickening.
where is ssaa in all this? having meetings. ?
The farm they bought in the east would buy a lot of legal representation.

[on_one_wheel]

It is utterly sickening.
where is ssaa in all this? having meetings. ?
The farm they bought in the east would buy a lot of legal representation.

We won't hear fron the ssaa until we're down to one single shot rifle each and they move to bann that.

The SSAA is purple circle gentleman's club with no genuine interest in anyone other than themselves and generating revenue.

[Wapiti]

Certainly looks that way.
Even their magazine is a boys club of the same old, same old.
And only just now, have they made a belated attempt to start becoming more political again. Or so they say. We'll see.

[geoff]

Couldn't agree more with your sentiments above. I'm sick of being told by them that they are these slick backroom wheelers and dealers pretending like they play in the shadows to stop it being worse. It's as bad as it could conceivably be and they've been our peak body through all of it. It's not their fault, sure, but they don't appear to be politically effective enough to call themselves our representatives.

If there were better options for pistol club governing bodies in my area, my club would leave ssaa immediately

Unfortunately we are too small to "go it on our own" like Canning did.

[Toadstool]

Limiting the number of guns people can own to a set number goes against peoples humans rights...

-_-

[Digger]

this was found online as a possible guideline,
could we get some comments on if this will be suitable ....

The below thanks to safe central website info

What are the new installation gun safe installation requirements in Western Australia?
As part of the increased security requirements for the cabinets, rooms and locations of storage, the anchoring requirements have been updated to ensure a much higher resistance to forced attack or removal.

The first point to note is that there is an exemption from anchoring your safe if the weight of the safe (when empty) exceeds 500kg. Only if your safe is under 500kg will you be required to anchor it to the property, so you may find it more suitable to purchase a safe over 500kg if you are unable to anchor your safe, for example in a rental property where the owner prefers not to have fitting bolted to the floor or walls.

If your safe requires anchoring, then you will need to comply with one of 3 anchoring methods. In the previous regulations, the size of the fixings to be used was determined, along with the requirement to use oversize washers to increase the surface area that the cabinet was secured through. In the revised regulations there are still requirements of the quantity of fixings used, but also includes the provision for using chemical bonding (adhesives) as an alternative to mechanical fixings.

The 3 options for installing/anchoring your safe are:
1. By using at least 4 mechanical fixings (Bolts or Coach screws), through at least 2 faces of the safe (base or sides), into “a structural part of a place” that is “made of masonry, concrete, steel or other similar material”.
2. By using Chemical Bonding on at least 2 faces of the safe onto “a structural part of a place” that is “made of masonry, concrete, steel or other similar material”.
3. By using a combination of at least 2 mechanical fixings and chemical bonding to 2 separate faces of the safe into “a structural part of a place” that is “made of masonry, concrete, steel or other similar material”.

The most important new addition to these regulations is the requirement that whichever anchoring method that you choose from the above, must “be of such a strength, or creates a bond that it is capable of withstanding 100 kN of force”
The requirement of meeting the force resistant if 100 kN adds a level of complexity to the installation as there are a number of variables that need to be considered when determining the force an installation can withstand.

To give an example, if you installed a firearm cabinet with 2 concrete screws through the back of the safe (concrete wall) and 2 concrete screws through the base of the (concrete floor), at a depth of 95mm each, you would likely achieve a total of 112 kN of force. Because the fixings are installed into adjacent faces, it means that two of the fixings are providing tension load resistance and the other 2 are providing shear load resistance.

The issue is that very few properties will have concrete walls, and many properties may not even have concrete floors thick enough to allow installation to 95mm depth. If you were to change the scenario so the 2 bolts in the rear were installed into a brick wall, the tension load resistance would reduce drastically to a total of around 60-65kN.

Given these disparities, you may require the use of mechanical and chemical fixings to ensure an appropriate installation and you should consider the property and the relevant materials that you will be anchoring the safe to, and speak with a professional for advice on the types of fixings required.

------ Gratitude safecentral.net.au ----

Disclaimer:
All the information included above is general only and is based on our own experience, as well as our interpretation of the new firearm storage regulations. You should always consult the WA Police Firearms licensing body to ensure you receive the most appropriate and relevant guidance for your individual situation.

If you need any more information or support with safes, you can contact one of our safe specialists by email at [email protected].

[Wapiti]

Has anyone told these WA weapons licensing jelly-belly city-softies that there are battery grinders and 1mm cutting discs that can get into anything?
Some people actually possess non-Ozito professional tools...

Edit: by the way, very enlightening post and great info. Thanks. But you people without houses made of tilt-up construction are in the sh*t...

[on_one_wheel]

There's bound to be a GPO within meters of most safes. Why mess around with battery operated toys when you can bust out a 9" and roost decent sparks right across the room.

[Wapiti]

There's bound to be a GPO within meters of most safes. Why mess around with battery operated toys when you can bust out a 9" and roost decent sparks right across the room.

Hey, I cut my teeth on the 9" when I was an apprentice and an XY... nowadays men are XX chromosomes and a 9" is WAY to mych torque for the boys with pipecleaner arms that don't lift...

I only say 5" because they are portable, way quieter, and the real good industrial Metabo's and Hikoki's got for half an hour on one battery... way long enough to cut a 600x300 hole in a 12mm door...

[Oldbloke]

So,,,

"By using a combination of at least 2 mechanical fixings and chemical bonding to 2 separate faces of the safe into “a structural part of a place” that is “made of masonry, concrete, steel or other similar material”.

If you own an all timber house you must buy a 500kg safe. Am I reading that right?

[Wapiti]

That seems to be the only option given other than two planes of concrete with 95mm embedment.

I hope you blokes do your gym work and get on with the crowd down there to get your safe off the ute, into the house and whatever... or have a forklift and doorways big enough to drive inside with a pallet...

[on_one_wheel]

You'd probably want to carefully consider the position and load bearing capacity of your floor in a timber home built on stumps or transportable when installing a 500kg safe.

[noneyabussiness]

Am i reading this right, you wa boys have to put in a 1/2 ton safe or these ridiculous mounting requirements in, for say 2 .22's if thats all you had??.... that is freaking hilarious ... but for our safety right ??

[Oldbloke]

You'd probably want to carefully consider the position and load bearing capacity of your floor in a timber home built on stumps or transportable when installing a 500kg safe.

That was my thought.
Those requirements are just stupid and designed to screw shooters.

Ummm, if you don't live on a cement slab yr fuked. 500kg safe required. FMD

And if you want to buy a firearm you have to comply with that crap.

Every gun shop in WA will shut down within 12 months

[on_one_wheel]

It's all because seemingly, real crime is impossible to control, they need to look like THEY'RE ACTUALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE when in actual fact they can't even stop sketchey little tobacco shops selling tax free tobacco over the counter, in broad daylight even though they openly advertise with enormous signs out front saying TOBACCO, it's completely pathetic.

I'm sure Papsmear is extremely proud of himself in his crusade against lawful firearms owners.
I hope a giant meth lab explodes in house next-door to his and he drowns in a pool of burning toxic chemicals, the slippery looking POS

[Oldbloke]

It's all because seemingly, real crime is impossible to control, they need to look like THEY'RE ACTUALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE when in actual fact they can't even stop sketchey little tobacco shops selling tax free tobacco over the counter, in broad daylight even though they openly advertise with enormous signs out front saying TOBACCO, it's completely pathetic.

I'm sure Papsmear is extremely proud of himself in his crusade against lawful firearms owners.
I hope a giant meth lab explodes in house next-door to his and he drowns in a pool of burning toxic chemicals, the slippery looking POS

He's a carnt. That would be a grouse out come

[alexjones]

Can't ban guns out right but make compliance so difficult that it is basically a ban.

WA, the worst state in this hell hole of a federation of self governing states.

[Wapiti]

You'd probably want to carefully consider the position and load bearing capacity of your floor in a timber home built on stumps or transportable when installing a 500kg safe.

Good point, but probably won't be an issue. Indeed it will, even if not initially, cause point loading structural damage to a raised timber floor if not directly centred over a stump. 500kg+ spread over a room isn't a problem but a safe footprint will be.
Best bet would be a 500kg safe on a concrete floor downstairs, it won't have the fixing issues.

[geoff]

Wapiti - you're a mech engineer aren't you?

There's an opportunity here to get a few standard details drafted for bolting arrangements into common building styles in WA and flog pdf's for $

Mine might wind up having to be a bit boutique but I'll see exactly how far the cops are going to take it making us justify the 100kN value before I engage an eng

It's unclear to me whether we need 100kN total or in what plane or what failure mode etc. can I just whack 8 chemsets in the base to get bulk tension capacity on paper and a few coach bolts in the back to meet the two surfaces rule & bump it up to 100kN in total? Or does it have to be 100kN in every direction? Typical WAPOL clear as mud

Two fixings each surface is the minimum but surely we can exceed that to get to 100kN

[niteowl]

1160 KG each does the trick. Grinder and drill resistant. Also have the advantage of fire proof (you need to be aware what this actually covers, but HIGHLY beneficial if "things" happen)

[noneyabussiness]

they look like they would cost more than what you could fill them with...

[stihl88]

they look like they would cost more than what you could fill them with...

Not if you consider their original purpose

[Wapiti]

Wapiti - you're a mech engineer aren't you?

There's an opportunity here to get a few standard details drafted for bolting arrangements into common building styles in WA and flog pdf's for $

Mine might wind up having to be a bit boutique but I'll see exactly how far the cops are going to take it making us justify the 100kN value before I engage an eng

It's unclear to me whether we need 100kN total or in what plane or what failure mode etc. can I just whack 8 chemsets in the base to get bulk tension capacity on paper and a few coach bolts in the back to meet the two surfaces rule & bump it up to 100kN in total? Or does it have to be 100kN in every direction? Typical WAPOL clear as mud

Two fixings each surface is the minimum but surely we can exceed that to get to 100kN

I'm going to try and throw an initial two cents in here and try not to be as confrontational and colourful in my language as I seem to come across in my writing, it's just that I'm appalled at the idiocy and the politics of how this info is being developed and released.
Either these police, acting as the lapdogs of, or solely for, equally unqualified idiots who happen to have butt-reamed themselves into positions of power by lies and the votes of the equally brain-dead public, are stupid or deliberately trying to f**k everyone around.

Yes it seems to say from the post above that 100kn of force is required in both of two planes, using a minimum of two chemset fasteners to achieve that requirement. That's easy to achieve with a few items in a basket from the local Bunnings hothouse.
Provided you can fix to a concrete wall too. Thats the elephant in the room. Combining the two planes is a very strong fixing, as long as there are no gaps under or behind to attach suitable lifting straps. Of course, if the safes have a 3mm back and base, you'll rip the safe off the fixings before they let go. Chinisium steel is very low quality. So I'd suggest two fasteners in the back 80% of the way up, two in the base near the front to help stop wedging.
I bet two boilermakers 300mm x 50mm wide dog wedges driven in would rip it out of the concrete with a 7lb sledgehammer.
Provided that's not going to change in the next few hours because some public servant just found something else he imagines is written on the paper he's just looked at when checking that his arse is clean in the smallest room of his office building, who knows.
I've only followed this stuff from this forum, it may or may not be complete info?

It's up to the geniuses that dream up these requirements as theyre dribbling from the mouth as they walk their labradoodles to clearly specify the procedures and numbers of how they want these specs achieved. Imaging working with these incompetent excuses.

[bladeracer]

they look like they would cost more than what you could fill them with...

Especially now when you can only own a handful of firearms.

[on_one_wheel]

Iv got a funny feeling they've achieved their numbers by looking at this test.
https://unsealed4x4.com.au/snatch-strap-comparison/
Personall if I were to yank a safe from a house, I'd use a stolen grade 100, 16mm or bigger chain to promote maximun shock loading of both my stolen 4x4 and the safe's anchors.

[Wapiti]

Iv got a funny feeling they've achieved their numbers by looking at this test.
https://unsealed4x4.com.au/snatch-strap-comparison/
Personall if I were to yank a fafe from a house, I'd use a stolen grade 100, 16mm or bigger chain to promote maximun shock loading of both my stolen 4x4 and the safe's anchors.

That's why the smart safe owner has it fastened hard up against the wall. Cos if you can get that chain around the back of the safe, you're pulling it out.

From memory, my big Lokkaways are 250kgs each, and getting them into our secure area required the Loader forks to get them inside, then skates to put them in position. But there was only me doing it. I reckon that if you can get some good industrial skates, you can move a 500kg safe easily around with one person, providing you have a method to get the thing home and inside. Ground floor house would be pretty simple, up ramps.
Then you coukd skip the silly wall requirements?

[on_one_wheel]

So I'd have to add a stolen sledge hammer to the list to smash some bricks out to so I can choke the safe and rip part of the wall out with the safe