New Project 40-72 for paper patching

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New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 02 Aug 2019, 7:54 am

I have a 45-70 and a 45-90 I shoot with black powder but the 90 is getting a bit much in my old age. I have steel plates holding discs in my spine in place and after a session with the 90 , the next day is painful.
They are both rolling blocks as I like them. I was considering rebarreling the 90 for the 40 cal project then selling off the 45 cal barrel, but then thought I would try and find another action . This is a long term project and probably my last. I have ordered a custom chamber reamer from the states and a new barrel from a mob in Brisbane so its started.
Now has anyone seen a No 1 Rolling block action for sale anywhere or know where I can get one?
It can be action only or a complete rifle with a worn out barrel. Make can be an original Remington or one of the Swedish military rollers. I will consider any, even a Navy arms as I have one in my 45-70. They are a good strong action.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by Noisydad » 02 Aug 2019, 8:52 am

That’s a tasty project! I reckon the felt recoil from a .40-72 in a roller will feel a little heavier than my .40-65 Sharps as a roller is usually a little lighter than a Sharps. What weight of bullet do you anticipate using?
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 02 Aug 2019, 3:23 pm

It will be about 450 grains compared to the 550 with the 45-90. The barrel will be a 13 twist so can take a bullet over 1.4 inches long.
I have no decided on a mould yet.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by marksman » 02 Aug 2019, 3:59 pm

it would be good to see this take shape :drinks:

sorry I cant help with the whereabouts of an action :drinks:
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 12 Oct 2019, 4:20 pm

Well I found an action that a forum member agreed to sell to me.
Its a Norwegian Rolling Block The thread is V form rather than square and the pins and holes in the Breech Block and Hammer are fairly worn. But it should come up OK.

ImageIMG_2434 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 31 Oct 2019, 7:35 am

The BB pin was too worn to use so I reamed the holes and made a new pin from a bit of stainless rod I had. Its a good fit now so next was to make a barrel stub
to verify the thread. Its 18TPI V form. I used this to make a lap to square up the breech face. Its a 1/2 inch rod with pieces of 320 grit emery super glued to it. I then spun it with the drill. Came up OK.
The new fast twist barrel I ordered back in July did not eventuate. Last week I phoned to see what was going on and they said that when they rifled it , it picked up swarf and ruined it. They would refund less 20 bucks restocking fee or I could wait another couple of months. I took the refund. (The checks in the mail) I hope.
I had a Green Mountain 16 twist here so I am using that. The 13 would have been better with the heavy bullet at long range but we will see how this goes.
I ordered a 395-415 paper patch mould from Buffalo Arms.

ImageRebarrel 01 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/

ImageRebarrel 02 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by bigpete » 31 Oct 2019, 11:14 am

Good stuff. Love a bit of diy
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by Noisydad » 31 Oct 2019, 11:56 am

I knew it’d be nice meaty project and so satisfying when you make her talk. Fingers crossed it’ll do what you want it to.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 01 Nov 2019, 8:30 am

My new bullet mould arrived. Because I cant get the fast twist barrel now, I cant go the heavy bullet. This is only 415 grains but is quite long for its weight. Its length rather than weight that affects how stable it will be.
Buffalo send a sample bullet with the mould you buy so I wrapped it to see how it fits and looks. Fits the case and barrel perfectly.

Image40-72 H by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 05 Nov 2019, 6:56 am

Got into barrel threading and chambering. Did most of the chambering in the lathe except for the last little bit. I left half a rim out so after the barrel is fitted I turn the reamer by hand until the block will close easily on a chambered round.

ImageRebarrel 03 by [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hEKivJ]ImageRebarrel 04 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by Gamerancher » 05 Nov 2019, 7:36 am

What cases are you using for this project?
My Shiloh is chambered for .40-70 Straight, ( or 2.5" if you want to be pedantic ) with a 1-16" twist. I have a custom Steve Brooks mold that throws a 440 grain GG bullet with reduced first two bands that is 1.400" long. I use that one for long range shooting out to 1000yds. It shoots well in that barrel with 70 grains of 2F Swiss behind it.
I also have a K.A.L mold that throws a 420 gr PP bullet that is 1.450" long, I have yet to try it at long range but testing at 200m is showing promise.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by bigpete » 05 Nov 2019, 9:18 am

That's some awesome work
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 05 Nov 2019, 2:32 pm

Gamerancher wrote:What cases are you using for this project?
My Shiloh is chambered for .40-70 Straight, ( or 2.5" if you want to be pedantic ) with a 1-16" twist. I have a custom Steve Brooks mold that throws a 440 grain GG bullet with reduced first two bands that is 1.400" long. I use that one for long range shooting out to 1000yds. It shoots well in that barrel with 70 grains of 2F Swiss behind it.
I also have a K.A.L mold that throws a 420 gr PP bullet that is 1.450" long, I have yet to try it at long range but testing at 200m is showing promise.


I got the reamer made to suit full length Hornady .405 Winchester cases. Saw no point in trimming off that 10th of an inch so they are 2.585 OAL.
I am trying the Jim 395-415E which is about 1.42 long. If I put 74 grains of 2F Wano in it, no compression I get room to hand seat a couple of wads and about 1/8 inch to seat the bullet into
Its a tight chamber made just for paper patching. I test fired a couple and a patched bullet is a perfect fit with no resizing. When I get some sights on it I can try it out properly.

For those not familiar with Paper Patching.These smooth paper covered boolits are made to be a sliding fit in the bore, much like a muzzle loader, although some patch to groove diameter, depends on the chamber.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 05 Nov 2019, 3:24 pm

Milled the groove for the early bar extractor then cut the notch between the bar and the case head with a Dremel and lots of filing. I had to guess where the slot went and I was a bit too low. Does not matter much but I had to make the relief for the extractor retaining pin a bit higher on the extractor.Took me a whole day to do this bit.

Imagerebarrel rolling block 01 by [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hFsYZ9]Imagerebarrel rolling block 04 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 06 Nov 2019, 6:35 am

I have not finished with the Breech Block yet. Must get those scratches out. That was just to make sure the extractor works, All good.
Mounted the scope blocks while I was at it. Drilled a hole then swapped the drill bit for a pointy thing I made to keep the tap holder straight while tapping the hole.
Made sure I was not tapping crooked.
Imagerebarrel rolling block 03 by [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hEN5h1]Imagerebarrel rolling block 02 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 12 Nov 2019, 6:14 pm

Put the stock on and took it to the range for a try out.
I only had a hammer type wad punch and the wad stack failed and I got severe leading.
I have a proper press mounted punch coming which should do the trick.
Imagerebarrel rolling block 05 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by Noisydad » 12 Nov 2019, 6:30 pm

Now, fess up and admit it - you’re not doing this (entirely) to get the rifle you want. You’re doing it for the fun and challenge of aren’t you?!
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by marksman » 12 Nov 2019, 6:58 pm

extremely impressive work :thumbsup: :clap: :clap:
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 13 Nov 2019, 5:47 am

Noisydad wrote:Now, fess up and admit it - you’re not doing this (entirely) to get the rifle you want. You’re doing it for the fun and challenge of aren’t you?!



Yes :)
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 13 Nov 2019, 5:52 am

My new press mounted wad punch arrived. Punched out some wads from .060 poly.
Filled some cases (80 grains) with Swiss FF and Wano FF and off to my 130 yard range to try them out.
I am pleased with the results. No leading and a reasonable (for me) group.
Loads just need refining .
Imagerebarrel rolling block 08 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 15 Nov 2019, 7:19 am

Been testing different powders.
Wano FF 80 grains gets 1262 to 1334 fps
Wano PP 80 grains gets 1283 to 1353 fps
Swiss FF 80 grains gets 1384 to 1421 fps.

I was not happy with the groups, then as I was picking the rifle up I felt something move. Checked some more and I am getting movement in the stock. I have heard that is not conducive to tight groups. I will probably glass bed,( bit hard on a roller) and put a stock through bolt in it.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by Gamerancher » 15 Nov 2019, 9:24 am

Those SD values look a bit high yet, it can be quite easy to achieve single digit figures with these rifles.
Like you said, early days, showing promise.
Is that a DZ scope and mounts?
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 15 Nov 2019, 5:29 pm

Yes DZ. Had a bit of discussion about it on the Shiloh forum.
I am going to try the Wano PP even though the Swiss is faster. I have a good load with the Swiss for my 45-70 PP so I will leave my stash of it for that.
Speed is not everything eh?
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by Gamerancher » 15 Nov 2019, 6:38 pm

Dan is a good friend of mine, makes a beautiful Hepburn replica, on the wish list for me. I have one of his scopes, actually sat there while his son put it together. Apart from the lenses, everything is made in house, right down to the tiny grub screws. If you ever get to Oklahoma City you should look him up. He owns a very impressive machining business, does a lot of work for the aircraft and oil industries. He says he's retired but he still goes in to work everyday. :lol:

With regards velocities,depends on what you are trying to do. Short to mid range ( 100 to 500m) can be shot quite well with slower loads. But time of flight starts to really hurt you at the long range, out to 1000, when the wind gets up. That's where you'll find the faster loads come into their own. Having said that, my .45-90 shoots very well out to 1000 with just 73gr of 1.5F Swiss behind a 545gr Creedmoor GG bullet, go figure. :unknown:
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 16 Nov 2019, 6:04 am

Yes, Dan stands by his products. When The scope arrived I could not adjust it as the spring loaded plunger was stuck. Sent him an email and he said he had a batch where the loktite on the plunger housing migrated and seized the plunger as well. He thought he had got them all but mine must have slipped through.
Said to get some acetone, soak it, and see if I could get it to move. If not return scope for replacement. Did not fancy not having any sights for that long so gave it a go.
After a couple of days it came good. Told him it was all OK now but the plunger got a bit marked up. A new plunger arrived in the mail yesterday along with a couple of spare bases in case I want to put it on another rifle.
Great service.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 18 Nov 2019, 6:22 am

Definately getting stock movement. Its only held with one tang screw so I bedded the tangs and where it fronts up to the action with Devcon. (all I had here)
I also made a through bolt from a bit of 5/16 SS threaded rod and a joining nut. Had to make an extended spade bit to get the hole through the stock.
A cross hole in the joining nut picks up the tang screw and a nut and washer at the other end tightens it up. Its solid now. Got that Idea from Mr Single Shots book .
Now to see how much difference it makes.

Imagerebarrel rolling block 10 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 29 Nov 2019, 4:31 pm

Decided to go with Wano P. The others are a bit faster but this is only for mid range. it weighs around 11 pounds. My long range 45-70 weighs 13 pounds.
Wano P with 77 or 78 grains seems to be fairly consistant so will work around that.
My patches were not cutting all the way to the front so tried a shorter one but not much difference.
Shooting at my 130 yard range.
Imagerange shot by [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hSnHjf]Imagerebarrel rolling block 11 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by Noisydad » 29 Nov 2019, 4:58 pm

All the younguns that have only ever used.223s think you’re talking a foreign language:-)
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: New Project 40-72 for paper patching

Post by perentie » 30 Nov 2019, 5:33 am

Ha Ha, yes, you are probably right. If they are interested they can ask questions.
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