Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by on_one_wheel » 07 Sep 2016, 5:32 pm

How much Alliant Black MZ are you getting for $58 and where are you getting it Tank ?
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Tank » 08 Sep 2016, 9:28 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:How much Alliant Black MZ are you getting for $58 and where are you getting it Tank ?

It's in 1lb bottles....so it's really only comparable in price.
Purchase from my local gunshop 'Green Triangle Firearms', Naracoorte.
I think Reg has just come home from Qld....hoping he's brought more home!
Will check on price to confirm tomorrow.
Regs,
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Tank » 08 Sep 2016, 9:59 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:That's what I pay for a kilo


Graeme Forbes sells it for $70/kg.

I don't mind as I don't expect to use a lot of it, a kilo is maybe 200 shots or more.


70 shots to the pound in my .54! :?
Not good news if supplies have dried up!
I'm down to my last 1/2 pound of MZ....have got a back up kilo of Swiss Fffg that I use in my 50....it will be the 'go to' if I can't get any more MZ.
Australia.....last on the worlds back order list! :thumbsdown:
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Tank » 09 Sep 2016, 7:40 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:How much Alliant Black MZ are you getting for $58 and where are you getting it Tank ?


Just paid $60.00 for the last pound of MZ from my lgs.....
No certainty when next shipment arrives.
Looks like my 54 may have a quiet Spring.
Thankfully a pound gives nearly 400 shots in the Navy (Colt).
Anyone know who has any Swiss powder?
Regs,
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Keith » 08 Apr 2018, 8:45 pm

bigpete wrote:I ask for 2 reasons,curiosity being one, the other being that I'd like to know if anyone has shot unpatched round ball out of a smooth bore ?


Historically smoothbores did not use a patched ball in the 18th century, & yes I use muzzle-loading guns. I made my first crude matchlock when I was about age 10 years.
I used to shoot a patched ball in my .62 caliber flintlock fusil, but I no longer carry patch material, just wads. To date I have not fired a round ball without patching, but then the ranges that I shoot at it would make no difference.
Keith.
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Keith » 08 Apr 2018, 8:52 pm

bigpete wrote:Because I currently have a goodly supply of .725 RB which I seriously doubt I'll get down the barrel with any thickness of patch material and I don't really want to go and buy .690 RB if I don't have to :-) and yes you do need an overshot card too for shot,I'm kinda hoping I don't necessarily need one if I use the .725 RB as they should be a semi tight fit already


I recommend you use a wad, there will be little difference in pressure & less chance of the ball moving. If you want a quick second shot you may be able to load without a wad, you can in a rifle because the fouling in the barrel makes it a tighter fit, but you will need to take note in your smoothbore just how tighter fit the ball is, without fouling & with fouling.
Keith.
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and that has made all the difference.
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by bigpete » 08 Apr 2018, 8:57 pm

Keith Burgess is that you ?
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Keith » 08 Apr 2018, 9:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:They're not great,probably right around the 25moa you mentioned,perhaps a bit smaller than that. Guess I was hoping someone may have actually done what I'm planning to try and could give me some tips on what to try or look out for.
Anyway,how about some photos ? Lots of photos of every other sort of firearm on the site but not many proper muzzleloaders. I'll have get some pics up of mine soon



I've been meaning to get some pics of my firearms for my brother.

I don't know much about this one.
It's a Hawken style made by a Kiwi called Tony Hawkins in New Zealand.
I've read that he formed "Hawkins Arms" in about '73 and closed down about '99 but I haven't even been able to confirm that much. There is a video on Youtube of a bloke test firing the same rifle as mine.
I have no idea of proofing or recommended charges. I bought it from Graeme Forbes and even he couldn't tell me anything at all about it.
I've been shooting FFFg from 50gns to 75gns with 0.005" lubed patches and 0.440" balls. I went with 5-thou patches to allow me to try different thicknesses until I find the optimum.
I really need to put aside a bunch of hours to do some load development for accuracy, but I'll have to clean it for every shot for consistency. I fired seven identical consecutive 50gn loads and velocity went from 1000fps from the clean bore up to 2100fps! I think partly due to bore fouling but also because I have no consistent seating depth on the ramrod yet - difficult to determine that until I determine how much powder to run. I understand as pressures build it'll start tearing the patches and accuracy will drop off. As with centrefire rifles, I'm guessing there's a window in which velocity will be fairly consistent across minor variations in charge weight, and I'm hoping that'll be around the 1400fps mark.


What you need is an optimal load if you are using it for hunting. For shooting target, you need the lowest load it will take & still reach the target. This is the most accurate load. For hunting you obviously need accuracy, but you also need knock down power. So start off with a low accurate load, & slowly work your way up. When you start to blow your pattern, you have gone too far. Drop back to the previous load & this will be you optimal hunting load.
Keith.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
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http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Keith » 08 Apr 2018, 10:04 pm

bigpete wrote:Keith Burgess is that you ?


Yes Pete, I am still alive :)
Keith.
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by No1Mk3 » 08 Apr 2018, 11:50 pm

Amazed I didn't see this post 2 years ago! As for bladeracers Hawkin, the barrels Tony 1st made were 32" long in 1:20 twist for a 480g conical flat base. Later on he offered them in 1:40 twist for round ball, but I am unaware of him using a short barrel, but I lost contact with him after '78. In my 1:20 32" barrel, my Red Deer and Wapiti load was 85g 3F with a 480g conical from one of Tonys own moulds, all shots at max 100 yards. Tony never actually proofed his BP barrels, only any nitro barrels he made. We have loaded his barrel with 160g of 3F and the 480g pill, and fired from behind a tree by string, lots of flame, smoke and noise but no visible damage, I am still using that rifle 43 years later.
PS: New price was NZ$150 in '74, but I got mine by horse trading with Tony direct. Cheers.
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by sungazer » 09 Apr 2018, 2:15 pm

Bigpete is your fallow skin bag called "A Possible" along the lines that a perfect score in target shooting is called a possible
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by bigpete » 09 Apr 2018, 2:24 pm

No I believe they're called possibles bags because there's possibly anything in them lol
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Keith » 09 Apr 2018, 3:30 pm

bigpete wrote:No I believe they're called possibles bags because there's possibly anything in them lol
sungazer wrote:Bigpete is your fallow skin bag called "A Possible" along the lines that a perfect score in target shooting is called a possible


Sorry to have to break it to you but the real name is a "shot pouch"
Image
This is my shot pouch.

Below is a possibles bag which is a Western Plains Indian item. This one is a Cheyenne Possibles Bag.
Image

They are quite large & were made to be carried on a Travois. Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation floating around left over from the American "Buckskinning" hobby/lifestyle, you are not the only one to have been misled Pete, I too believed this many years ago, but I have done a lot of research since then.
Regards, Keith.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Keith » 09 Apr 2018, 3:38 pm

bigpete wrote:
14726054818401806277147.jpg
here's the kit I'm setting up for grandpas shot gun. Left to rightish: tin of lubed cushion wads,6 .725 RB,shot pouch full of size 4 shot,cap holder,plastic bag full of dry cushion wads,leather over powder wads and overshot cards,piwder flask set at 2¼ drams,flint and steel fire kit,first aid kit,sharpening stone,and cleaning bag.
1472605818704-166989481.jpg
all of it goes into my fallow skin possible bag. Still have a few things to add though


You have done well Pete. Just make sure you do NOT load a muzzle-loading gun from that powder flask! Use a separate powder measure.
Keith.
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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/
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Re: Anyone shoot traditional muzzleloaders ?

Post by Keith » 18 Dec 2018, 9:11 am

bigpete wrote:I ask for 2 reasons,curiosity being one, the other being that I'd like to know if anyone has shot unpatched round ball out of a smooth bore ?


Yes I have. You can use unpatched round ball in rifles & smoothbores. In rifles this method is usually used when one needs a quick second shot & the barrel is already fouled. In a smoothbore using an unpatched ball is traditional; smoothbores used wads or wadding in the 18th century for round ball & shot. The closer the fit of the ball, the more accuracy you have, but these guns never were intended to be used over longer ranges. My hunting distance is anywhere from point blank to 50 yards maximum. Although I have sighted at 50 yards, all game has been shot at 35 yards or less.
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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
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