past nsw registery failures

[alexjones]

It is when it comes to domestic violence here.
As is necessary.

What you’re saying Alex is you can threaten to kill somebody and they shouldn’t take your guns of you.
Only after the fact.
That’s your logic.

The movie was Minority Report.

I could go to the police and tell them you threatened to kill me. That does not make it true.

I am saying what evidence did she provide to police to substantiate her claims.

Making threats to kill is very serious and is a crime(as it should be). However people still deserve the basic human right of due process.

[womble]

You could. And that would be a very serious criminal offence in itself. It’s a hoax threat.

Making a threat to kill is a very serious crime.

Yes it is pre crime as you put it.
Because we know threats are a a strong predictor of subsequent violence. Statistically. There’s a high chance that individual will follow through.
Too many studies have been done on it.
And then when you factor in brain tumour and erratic behaviour case in point.

Conclusion Wapol are a bunch of spastics.
Forgone conclusion because we already knew that.
Once again pre crime. There is a high chance that Wapol will f*** things up.

[womble]

And if I may , I would like to address your other most fascinating claim.
France was absolutely littered with speed cameras. Plus all the high tech crap we have to deal with. Hidden surprise cameras, point to point etc.
And you are correct now they have bugger all fixed speed cameras.
I think it was 2018-19. The yellow vests. They destroyed all the fixed cameras.

But here’s the interesting part. Up until then their road toll per capita mirrors ours. It’s nearly identical.
Since the cameras were all smashed their road toll shot up dramatically.
It is indeed so typical of the French psyche. They crack the s**ts at the drop of a hat and always end up making things worse for themselves.

Would anyone else care to own Alex tonight

[1886]

1886
Someone balling their eyes out on TV is not a valid reason in my view to form opinion. Logic and reason is the only way to form an opinion not emotion.
Anyone can make a complaint about anything. Which is why I asked you what evidence was provided?
We all know restraining orders can be issued by police without due process.
This situation is terrible but that does not mean we let terrible things override basic human rights.

Alex, mate you are making yourself out to be a total fool.

In my initial post I made the interesting reference that both WA and NSW Govt's subsequent actions as a result of incidences that weren't properly investigated by Police & Co resulted in innocent persons losing their life along with many others being severely injured. Fact. It then resulted in both Govt's enacting new Firearm Acts that severely penalises normal LFAO's. Fact

Alex, you do now realise that your stance on so called basic human rights that, news flash would not have lawfully existed under these two circumstances but notwithstanding this, means your thoughts by definition also support the outcome that those in NSW are also going to have severe restrictions put on firearm ownership, which I find incomprehensible and disrespectful.

I would assume NSW's guys here would also find that stance at odds with what this forum is about. Strange logic. You are also being naive if you think this is not going to happen in QLD eventually.

[alexjones]

Mate to me one does not equal the other.

I do not support the initial laws in the first place.

I also do not support enacting new laws.


My point of view has not changed that if the state is going to take peoples private property than due process must be followed. Evidence must be provided, a court warrant issued then the police can confiscate the property. Then the defendant will be given a court date to fight the claims and see if they are valid or not.


In a perfect world that mother that got killed would of been legally strapped in order to defend herself.

Take yourself for instance. Imagine if someone just goes to the police and tells them that you threatened to kill them. Provides no evidence just cries. Next minute your guns are gone. That to me is a horrendous thought.

[Die Judicii]

I am not a police apologist but they are human and humans do commit data entry or other errors.

Who here has not made a mistake at their job by accident?

Where is the line drawn between an error and gross negligence?

But,,,, isn't that the basic and primary reason why (in Qld anyway),, when you get notification that your recent PTA has been successful, it also states that a further period of (I think it's seven days) must elapse, for "quality checks" on the approval before you can take possession ???

One would hope that would be like a "fail safe" system whereas no mistakes or errors would be able to sneak past.

[Wapiti]

Mate to me one does not equal the other.

I do not support the initial laws in the first place.

I also do not support enacting new laws.


My point of view has not changed that if the state is going to take peoples private property than due process must be followed. Evidence must be provided, a court warrant issued then the police can confiscate the property. Then the defendant will be given a court date to fight the claims and see if they are valid or not.


In a perfect world that mother that got killed would of been legally strapped in order to defend herself.

Take yourself for instance. Imagine if someone just goes to the police and tells them that you threatened to kill them. Provides no evidence just cries. Next minute your guns are gone. That to me is a horrendous thought.

Alex
I agree with what you are saying, but only if there is no evidence provided for the complaint.
Too many people I've known have had coppers turn up at their door, loaded for bear, saying their guns are being confiscated because of a scurrilous complaint by an ex, even a business enemy. That's bullsh*t.
Leaving them to spend huge $$,$$$ to go to court, where it's proved as false or without basis.
Imagine how f**ked that feels, and is.

But if there are threats by electronic means, phone or text, witnessed and/or recorded by the complainant or others, or particularly as discussed here the investigations into these neanderthals by ASIO and those circumstances we've all heard, yes those c**ts should have had their guns confiscated.
If those steps would have been taken, actually what already is in the current laws as they stand now, those cavemen would have been disarmed.

[1886]

....................My point of view has not changed that if the state is going to take peoples private property than due process must be followed. Evidence must be provided, a court warrant issued then the police can confiscate the property. Then the defendant will be given a court date to fight the claims and see if they are valid or not.

OK you are at liberty to hold that view but you need to read the various firearm acts for what actually happens. For instance, in WA what you state above is totally irrelevant and always has been and always will be so you're barking up the wrong tree and your point of view is just a personal view that will always mean NOTHING in the real world so maybe you should now consider giving it a miss.

The Commissioner of Police or his delegate makes all the decisions concerning Firearm Act matters, NOT via evidence, due process or court warrants etc. In WA if aggrieved you are able to seek a review of any decision via the State Administrative Tribunal.

I suspect the NSW's new Act will be the same or similar but I did read somewhere that it they may not include a review option but I seem to think that will be overruled.

[bigrich]

Mate to me one does not equal the other.

I do not support the initial laws in the first place.

I also do not support enacting new laws.


My point of view has not changed that if the state is going to take peoples private property than due process must be followed. Evidence must be provided, a court warrant issued then the police can confiscate the property. Then the defendant will be given a court date to fight the claims and see if they are valid or not.


In a perfect world that mother that got killed would of been legally strapped in order to defend herself.

Take yourself for instance. Imagine if someone just goes to the police and tells them that you threatened to kill them. Provides no evidence just cries. Next minute your guns are gone. That to me is a horrendous thought.

mate i can see your side to the argument ,but in the case in WA the guy had his drivers license cancelled cause a brain tumour was affecting him mentally, his wife and daughter pleaded for the police to take his guns cause of threats . more than enough reasonable grounds to take his guns . if the authorities did their job in bondi the father would've lost his guns due to his sons affiliations . oh but the father hadn't committed a crime . mate they were in with ISIS fanatics, more than reasonable grounds to cancel his gun license. these are just two incidence where there was reasonable cause to err on the side of public safety . i'll say this again AJ, we are not america, we don't have the second amendment rights in australia . that seems to be your mindset .

i'll bring up something else , when i was a kid, you could buy sportco/stirling bolts and semi auto 22lr's and pump action shotty's from Kmart shopping centres. after numerous cases of angry husbands spontaneously going and buying guns and committing murder suicides of their family's, shopping centres stopped selling guns . that style of crime diminished . where i grew up there's A LOT of people who shouldn't have access to guns . we need to have gun laws that stop unfit people from getting access . how that laws structured is debateable . i think semi auto centrefires should be more accessible myself , as well as primary producers having handguns for personal protection . but regardless we need laws to keep the community safe . so we need a NRA style advocate group to lobby, and when necessary, go to court to fight for what's right and fair . your calling pre emptive gun confiscation as being like the "minority report" movie , and in a way it is . but i think any reasonable person would put human life above someone having guns . i get the other side of the argument that gun owners have been stitched up by false accusations and lost their guns . that ain't fair at all . but there's got to be some sort of middle ground. that's the hard part

[womble]

Alex has a win on the board here.
We haven't seen a marked difference in suicides since the 70's
And they're on the increase again

[womble]

Nailed it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgzHU7VFNI

[bigrich]

Alex has a win on the board here.
We haven't seen a marked difference in suicides since the 70's
And they're on the increase again

the 1970's is the period i'm referring to with regards to firearm purchases in supermarkets and murder suicides . i used to hear it on the radio all the time, and a lot of it happened locally to me. easy firearm availability from supermarkets was changed and these incidents declined . liberal gun laws are all good in theory , but there's a lot of sh!t rat bogan meth heads and recent arrivals who should never have access , and it's up to the firearms registry to weed them out . i'm sick of hearing about people being f@ckwits cutting fences and poaching, as well as the everyday incidents of crims knocking each other off . every incident and failure of authorities to responsibly regulate gun owners brings firearm owners into disrepute with the general public and ignorant politicians who are supposed to represent us . wapati has raised the issue of yahoos roaming the back roads out his way and shooting up the place . common story i hear and this has to stop . every incident adds weight to the anti's argument , and being a democracy (supposedly) the more people who believe rightly or wrongly , that tougher gun laws are needed hurts LAFO's irreparably .

so we need gun laws, but we need political and legal representation , as well as a good dose of PR with regards to polies and the public . SSAA ripley used to host events where work parties and office workers came out and engaged in various shooting disciplines , with lots of the women in these parties really enjoying clay shooting . it takes away the demonising in the publics perception of guns . hearts and minds ....

[womble]

You were taught that by the media.
I am familiar with the narrative. Kmart guns made it easier.

Most people just use pills to go to sleep peacefully.

Anyway, highest periods Great Depression and the 60’s

So why the 60’s . Sleeping pills. Barbiturates. Strong ones. Unrestricted access.

https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/overview/suicide-deaths

Post 60’s we got the drugs under control better. And post 60’s till present we haven’t seen any improvements by banning or locking up guns.

Suicide is more relevant to the individual’s socioeconomic situation, not the means of.

We haven’t reduced mass murder either. Only by other means.

Beef Wellington.

But seriously, Fire.
Biggest mas murders here are deliberately lit fires.

[bigrich]

Nailed it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgzHU7VFNI

your damn right there 1000% i've sent the link to some non shooting people i know . if this speech could be seen by all australians it'd change things. i think macdonald laws challenge is going to bring a lot of this to light

[bigrich]

You were taught that by the media.
I am familiar with the narrative. Kmart guns made it easier.

mate , the truth is the truth. there was a spate of "copy cat" shootings in logan when i was a kid . i remember it clearly . they stopped the sale of guns in supermarkets the incidence declined . my argument isn't about suicides themselves , it's about how easy gun access enabled unstable f@ckwits to murder their families and themselves . all this was in the 1970's , pre gun laws

unstable f@ckwits should not be able to get easy access which is why we have the laws we do . but registry failings are resulting in unfair draconian laws that we must fight against. the whole point i started this topic

[womble]

There was one in Toowoomba 1975. Bloke killed his wife, three sons and a daughter then himself. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/102185589

Yes I agree unstable ****** should not have easy access to guns.

Guns and ammo were sold in kmart till late 80’s



That’s per 100,000
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/AUSTRALIA-Total-Homicide-and-Homicide-by-Firearm-Rate-per-100-000-Total-Population_fig1_266420915

[womble]

No fault divorce was introduced mid 70’s though.
So you didn’t have to take the death do us part literally.
Didn’t help.

[Zappa]

On the topic of firearm confiscations, there's something about seizing a mans property which kicks them in the guts when they're already down. Frivolous claims, ex partners statements which could have vindictive reasons attached, and anonymous tips would trigger cops on a whim to take a mans property.

Instead of seizing the LAFO's firearms, I'd like to see something like the police put a magnetic, electronic lock with monitoring on the individuals safe. Should the safe or lock be tampered with ( opened ), it will send a beacon to the Base unit to report a breach. Would work on the same principle as detention ankle bracelet. The technology is already there, so wouldn't be too hard to implement.
It will be there until investigation and due process concludes.

One of the tricky things would be if the safe is breached, and the individual has intent to do harm, would the cops have enough time to respond on the scene?

Speaking of safes, If you've got a safe you want to sell cause you're thinking of upgrading, now is the time to sell. They're not lasting long on marketplace. They're snapped up within hours. LAFOs appears are buying the extra safe or two to split their firearms to family members when the time comes.
And who can blame them?

[Zappa]

Nailed it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgzHU7VFNI

Makes a couple of good points, the rest is pub chat.

[womble]

On the topic of firearm confiscations, there's something about seizing a mans property which kicks them in the guts when they're already down. Frivolous claims, ex partners statements which could have vindictive reasons attached, and anonymous tips would trigger cops on a whim to take a mans property.

Instead of seizing the LAFO's firearms, I'd like to see something like the police put a magnetic, electronic lock with monitoring on the individuals safe. Should the safe or lock be tampered with ( opened ), it will send a beacon to the Base unit to report a breach. Would work on the same principle as detention ankle bracelet. The technology is already there, so wouldn't be too hard to implement.
It will be there until investigation and due process concludes.

One of the tricky things would be if the safe is breached, and the individual has intent to do harm, would the cops have enough time to respond on the scene?

Speaking of safes, If you've got a safe you want to sell cause you're thinking of upgrading, now is the time to sell. They're not lasting long on marketplace. They're snapped up within hours. LAFOs appears are buying the extra safe or two to split their firearms to family members when the time comes.
And who can blame them?

The cops would prefer to respond after the event. So that works well for them.

[bigrich]

No fault divorce was introduced mid 70’s though.
So you didn’t have to take the death do us part literally.
Didn’t help.

domestic breakup was the primary reason a lot of these tragedies happened from memory . for these things to happen in australian society were shocking at the time . guns weren't seen as the "boogie man" back then, to be feared . they were just a normal tool in our society . i remember being 17 years old, bout 1986 , and walking up to Amart allsports at underwood with my birth certificate , plonking down $69 for a crisp m38 swede mauser , and walking home down kingston road through the heart of logan carrying this rifle slung over my shoulder with the bolt in a bag . perfectly legal and hardly anyone batted a eye . australia was a great plce to live back then . had a neighbour who lived behind me with a 30-06 m1 garrand back then . oh if Port Arthur never happened and we had a strong gun lobby , i'd be hunting deer with a civilian 270/30-06 BAR sporter and pigs with a lightened m14