Senate hearing on gun violence - Audio / Video

[Wylie27]

Suck it up buttercup?

Yeah like I can afford to run advertising campaigns. But wait what we need is a national body that we can join, give them an annual fee and have our collective money pooled to do this. If only we had one one...... Wait we do.

But as far as I can tell they do diddly squat with our money other than produce a magazine.

According to the SSAA there is 165000+ members currently now let's base An average membership cost at $70(covering pensioner, family and gold memberships that works out to be an annual revenue stream of $11,550,000.00. Food for thought really..

So hmmm I guess I am a buttercup for wanting our national body and association to represent our hobby/sport and to actively promote and debunk myths etc. yes so adverts, TV spots etc..

[anthillinside]

Totally your choice and I’ll not condemn you for it, we all have our views.
The SSAA does represent our hobby/sport and actively promotes and debunks myths etc.
They target their funds and efforts directly at areas that have a good chance of making a difference.
They run ranges, national and local comps, support many sub clubs and hunting activities.
They work with gov. bodies and farmers to organize feral pest reduction they lobby gov. etc etc.
TV adds … no … the majority of TV advertising is Brand awareness campaigns, run over months to years and costs multi millions.
Exactly what would the SSAA advertise? A public service announcement?
The SSAA doesn’t have that kind of money and what would be the benefit?
Just not value for money IMO probably theirs to.

I can understand your criticism of the SSAA, the bigger an organization gets the less chance it has of pleasing everyone and it gets factionalised, politicised and in general criticised and probably with good reason.
Anyway you support the cause in your way and I’ll do it mine.

[1290]

Every shooter joinging the SS is not the solution.... all that would do is provide a huge pool of fundS for them to bicker over. Dont forget the 96 PAM LAW was a huge windfall for the club, as they become 'the' genuine need for a good proportion of shooters (compusory membership$$)

We do need represenation, as long as all shooters can get their voice heard, shouldnt matter whether there is one group or one hundred voices..... trouble with the tried and tested method of the vocalised minority getting their opinion heard in the public domain; shooters are less likely to be outspoken and tread on the boundary of lawfulness (as far as venting extreme opinions, protesting/marching on symbolic places - as others frequently do);

1 Shooters are vilified in the media and social media at every opportunity.

Not a single excuse goes by without a PETA class attack on shooters and hunters particularly. We have seen the disgusting attach on the female hunter still fresh in the papers, you would think 'they' would cut a woman some slack, you'd think the lesbogay trans tards who all too regularly attack blokes for any reason would praise a woman for 'daring to enter the man's domain of hunting' (the picture they paint') but no, she was fair game to these low lives and the threat of her life and insults abounded...because she dared to kill an animal, an entirely lawful and culturally significant activity (white mans culture is irrelevant in the environmentist / diversity movement)

2 Shooters are more likely to be too busy keeping their family fed and working an honest life.

The tards feed of the 'teat of society', of course they have the time to dress in there green triangle uniform and harass the honest portion of society. Trouble is the foot soldiers don't realise the socialist/communist wannabees are masquarading as this environmental movement named the Aus greens.... they are a cancer on our prosperity, Example; these mentally deficient excuses recently celebrated the cancellation of the one piece of road infrastructure that Melbourne actually needed The mental giants actually think theyre saving us... from ourselves. So bad luck, we can keep sitting in traffic for hours, to travel across the north of the City, becasue the greens said so! They stated "we won".... FFS

3 Shooters are well aware that their 'privilege' can be all too easily revoked, the only lawful / sporting pursuit that can be ended with an univited entry to your home with equipment seized!

Woman(and men alike) know quite well that the way to destroy a bloke's (or a woman's) hobby, is to accuse them of something, assault whatever, doesnt need to be based on fact..... if they have guns - then the assumption is they will then go postal and start with the people around them and end who knows where - so therefore the police had better take the guns away and good luck getting them back.
And what about pistol shooters?? it will take, what, missing a competition to receive at least a letter if not a knock at the door asking for your handguns..... Papers please/firearms now!...... Where is this going??

[anthillinside]

+1290
Yes we do need representation and we’re starting to get it.
I support as many as I can, I don’t agree 100% with any of them but while they are “in there fighting” I’ll support them while I can.

I guess we do keep our heads down for all the reasons above and more.
We tend to keep to ourselves which is probably not a good thing.
A group grows by collecting outside support, friends of friends of friends get introduced and some join up.
I don’t see to many shooters having a “latte down at the local caff” with a bunch of friends from work (YUK ) but that’s how the antis grow.
We’re always going to be a target for those do-gooders that want to run everyone else’s lives, we just have to fight back in any and every way we can.
I guess my “Suck it up” comment was aimed at stirring the pot, it wasn’t meant to offend.
I’m feeling magnanimous today .. that might change tomorrow

[valkyrie]

i dont have the money or the time to do much to support the shooting cause, but i do try to educate people about the facts whenever i get the opportunity.often it results in people getting a bit annoyed with me but i am beginning to notice a change in a lot of their attitudes when it comes to guns and shooting. plus there is nothing better than being at a party and getting to absolutely destroy a greenie in an argument in front of a crowd because it only helps to expose all the lies they tell themselves and everyone else. i think that we all just need to keep doing what we are doing, with the addition of defending ourselves at every opportunity that presents itself to us personally. this fight is not one that we are going to win by attacking the greens continuously as many of us seem to do. we will win by being better educated about the issues at hand and using that knowledge to educate those around us.

[1290]

thr greens are trash, and anyone who votes for them (cue 45 degrees) ..... if we could shut down the origin of the antigun antihunting propaganda, it would help our 'cause' immensely.

But 'educating' one innocent at a time is great, all it takes is to ease them into reality with such tidbits as comparing the death of an animal via bullet or poison or starvation and dehydration (later 2 being the preferred greens method)....

[anthillinside]

^^^ Well said.
Will you take me to Valhalla when my time comes?

[valkyrie]

dont get me wrong im not saying i would vote for them in a million years, i just dont think that attacking the greens personally is the answer. i think we need to attack the issues and their policy. but the name calling and personal attacks on memebrs of their organisation dont help. people dont respond well to it when you call someone an idiot for what they have said but if you simply show why they are being an idiot the innocent 3rd party (currently the brainwashed public) is much more likely to take your side

[Newdave]

We are so focused on the greens and there continuous attacks in the media that we have forgotten who hit us in 96. The recent revelations of the recommendations to COAG on lever, pumps, caliber restrictions etc shows we should be watching the major parties and the back room deals that are hidden from us. I think we are going to have to get the ky out again very soon. There really is nothing we can do about it. Well thought out policies based on fact aren't required in Australia. The media will be there to cheer them on the more extreme and pointless these further restrictions on LAFOs are the better as far as they are concerned.

[Wylie27]

We are so focused on the greens and there continuous attacks in the media that we have forgotten who hit us in 96. The recent revelations of the recommendations to COAG on lever, pumps, caliber restrictions etc shows we should be watching the major parties and the back room deals that are hidden from us. I think we are going to have to get the ky out again very soon. There really is nothing we can do about it. Well thought out policies based on fact aren't required in Australia. The media will be there to cheer them on the more extreme and pointless these further restrictions on LAFOs are the better as far as they are concerned.

Which is why I believe the SSAA needs to conduct a national advertising campaign to help turn the media. We are never going to affect the bigoted anti gunners, but we can influence the neither here no there people which currently see the greens lies as the truth...

The NRA spend a lot of money advertising and getting into schools, putting the word out and take up the fight. This is what we need at the moment, a unified national body trying to turn the public with wife brush strokes while we as LAFO's change individuals minds.

[Newdave]

The NRA have significant support in both the major political parties in the USA aswell as law enforcement organisations throughout the country. Where as we have all our police commissioners and forces actively campaigning in the back rooms to heavily restrict us further. They have hinted of this several times in the media the last few years with ideas being floated such as one license one firearm. I think we have been duped and there is probably a agreement already done and now they just have to work out the details of the implementation.

[Boatman]

According to the SSAA there is 165000+ members currently now let's base An average membership cost at $70(covering pensioner, family and gold memberships that works out to be an annual revenue stream of $11,550,000.00. Food for thought really..

Never added it up before but that's a serious kitty.

We'll never know but I'd love to see how much goes to salaries and expenses and how much is left that could/should be used to represent us.

Don't forget range attendance fees as well. $30 or $15 a shooter on top of that. For how many ranges the SSAA run, how many staff roughly at each one it you'd guess there would be some serious left overs after running costs.

Where's it going

[anthillinside]

You can find it in their annual report. (Victoria anyway, I think National does the same)
It's published in the Mag and if your a member it's emailed now I think (not positive about that)
http://www.ssaavic.com.au/images%5Cimag ... ed%202.pdf
For Vic aprox;
Revenue 4.2m
Employees 925k
It's a fully audited financial report Balance sheet P&L the lot.
Dull reading unless your an account (apologies to all accountants but you know it's true)

[Spooner]

CBF reading.

I'll take your word for it

3.2m left over though. Where's it going then....

[Wylie27]

CBF reading.

I'll take your word for it

3.2m left over though. Where's it going then....

And that is just one state......

[anthillinside]

A fair chunk goes to the national body but most goes into the Ranges, Property, Plant & Equipment.
Remember they opened a new range in Vic this year at Cobaw.
IMO they are doing a reasonable job and trying to return some benefits to the members.
I know it sounds like I'm trying to talk them up but I know what it's like trying to run that kind of organization.
They had some internal fighting last year that really p’d me off and if it continues to happen I’ll be looking else ware.

[Wylie27]

The SSAA have done a good job, however it seems to be right now what is needed is a unified national body with one purpose in life. Protect what we have.

Lobby, advertise, sway court of public opinion. They do it nationally and we do it individually.

If they need more cash, then every shooter should join. Pay the money, help them out.

But for that to happen they need to be seen doing something.

Internally fighting, going after their own agenda etc is not helping.

SFP need to be apart of this. The election in NSW is over and their Facebook page is dead quiet. Nothing other than announcing the election results.

We need our national bodies to be publicly championing our sport whilst working in the back rooms.

Highlight our members sporting achievements. Make the Aussie population proud of our sports achievements etc. who here really likes to watch 50m freestyle?! I bet not many but geez how proud are we when one of them win. Why?! It's promoted!!!

The greens get AirPlay because well they make noise publicly.

When was there a public rally for pro firearms??

We all need to unite, rally against the lies, propaganda that is used to portray us as buck tooth hill billy red neck homicidal maniacs. But we need our national body and elected officials to do the same..

[David Brown]

Suck it up buttercup?

Yeah like I can afford to run advertising campaigns. But wait what we need is a national body that we can join, give them an annual fee and have our collective money pooled to do this. If only we had one one...... Wait we do.

But as far as I can tell they do diddly squat with our money other than produce a magazine.

According to the SSAA there is 165000+ members currently now let's base An average membership cost at $70(covering pensioner, family and gold memberships that works out to be an annual revenue stream of $11,550,000.00. Food for thought really..

So hmmm I guess I am a buttercup for wanting our national body and association to represent our hobby/sport and to actively promote and debunk myths etc. yes so adverts, TV spots etc..

I think you mean something in this manner……

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... SBMfe08u-K

Enjoy

[1290]

......When was there a public rally for pro firearms?? ..

Sale, 1996; and it infuriates me the way the prestitutes state than jittle jonnie faced a "hostile pro-gun crowd" in other words, hostile+guns = violence, guns out...

This mofo should go down in history as a treasonous panderer, yet he's a global antigun crusading hero!!

should have given him a box...


Was it Freud?? who said a fear of guns represented a sexual retardation or something to that end.....little Jonnie and Co.

[Wylie27]

1996 is the last one I can remember.

[1290]

Something to think about....
Something I dont recall being covered (maybe it was) was the replacement of handed-in firearms;

We had 660,000 longarms handed in during the earlier amnesties and later about 70,000 handguns
Since mid 96/97 years we've had over 1.1 Million licit firearm imports
Since 07/08 the number is 750,000 firearms

(Keep 'replacing' guys and girls, dont forget National buy-a-gun week is approaching)

Since the end of the handgun buyback (12/2003) the licit handgun imports total minimum 100,000, probably closer to 110,000.

So registered firearms nationwide would be around the 3.25million level, illicit, as we know, and knew before the senate agreed....can never be accurately agreed on, but I maintain that 7m is plausable, a 2:1 of illicit to licit is not really out of the question IMVHO

Imports for the last 3 years are estimated - as curiously customs no longer publicly report such 'trivialities' and refer questions to FOI.....

What is a concern is the behind the scenes work to tighten the screws..... there are pressures from many directions, including the FACT that the international (UN) treatyfor the global gun-control was formally ratified during December 2014, with vague words they claim to not hamper national / internal possession, but considering a requirement to implement provisions via national laws...along with the anti-terrorism fear being fomented by our legislators with the assistance of the media; I'm wondering whether the Police ministers love fest + COAG is building momentum for a state by state implementation of changes, or worse still, an excuse to delegate firearm legislation to ................................. the Commonwealth

[Wylie27]

Suck it up buttercup?

Yeah like I can afford to run advertising campaigns. But wait what we need is a national body that we can join, give them an annual fee and have our collective money pooled to do this. If only we had one one...... Wait we do.

But as far as I can tell they do diddly squat with our money other than produce a magazine.

According to the SSAA there is 165000+ members currently now let's base An average membership cost at $70(covering pensioner, family and gold memberships that works out to be an annual revenue stream of $11,550,000.00. Food for thought really..

So hmmm I guess I am a buttercup for wanting our national body and association to represent our hobby/sport and to actively promote and debunk myths etc. yes so adverts, TV spots etc..

I think you mean something in this manner……

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... SBMfe08u-K

Enjoy

That is definitely what we need, I felt like yelling out America!! lol
Seriously though the concept and feel of those videos are awesome and it could be used here.

[trekin]

But if we only had anything remotely resembling the NRA.

[David Brown]

But if we only had anything remotely resembling the NRA.

Indeed, but what we need to do is build up the SSAA and motivate them. We need to be active, same goes at election time. We are too silent.

We need to be very respectful in terms of manners and behaviour, but we need to be loud and proud.

[Baronvonrort]

But if we only had anything remotely resembling the NRA.

We have the shooters union who are aligned with the NRA, they are strong in Qld.

[trekin]

But if we only had anything remotely resembling the NRA.

Indeed, but what we need to do is build up the SSAA and motivate them. We need to be active, same goes at election time. We are too silent.

We need to be very respectful in terms of manners and behaviour, but we need to be loud and proud.

trekin wrote:
But if we only had anything remotely resembling the NRA.

We have the shooters union who are aligned with the NRA, they are strong in Qld.

Both the SSAA and SUQ have the same major flaw that restricts how political they can become, they both offer "genuine reason" for their membership. If they become too much of a thorn in the side of the Govt, than the Govt will remove that "genuine reason" status, effectively beheading and gutting either organization with one stoke of the pen. And the SUQ being affiliated to the NRA has done what for their members or LAFO's anywhere in Aust. exactly?

[Rippah]

Indeed, but what we need to do is build up the SSAA and motivate them. We need to be active, same goes at election time. We are too silent.

Motivation is a good point.

There are a lot of shooters who don't have any time for the SSAA and speak out against them as a waste of money.

SSAA never seems to respond to it though to improve things. No statements of we hear you and will try to do better they just keep on the same.

[Wylie27]

Indeed, but what we need to do is build up the SSAA and motivate them. We need to be active, same goes at election time. We are too silent.

Motivation is a good point.

There are a lot of shooters who don't have any time for the SSAA and speak out against them as a waste of money.

SSAA never seems to respond to it though to improve things. No statements of we hear you and will try to do better they just keep on the same.

It seems theSSAA hasnt changed in the last 10 years. Still limp wristed,factionalised, inept and floundering. However it is like this because we as the members keep voting in the same type of people.

We need shooters to stand up and run, we need other shooters to vote for them. People who will buck the status quo.

That wont happen though.

We have increasing voice and presence, our sport is back to pre 96 levels of membership etc, we have people in parliament. We have a generational change since 96, more new and younger shooter. Now is the time to use this strength and get some of what we lost back. Do this with reason, positive messages, logic. Take the emotion out of the argument.

This needs to be done from the man on the street all the way to a nation.

Sorry i wrote this on an iphone.

[1290]

I wouldnt mind if they say, cut the magazine back to every second month and spent the savings on LEGAL CHALLENGES whereever possibly and pushing for the winding back of the 96 laws.... first remove PTA... then remove air rifles from the registry.. one step at a time , becasue after the almost 20years experiment of the toughened gun laws, as we've witness, there is absolutely no evidence that clamping down of lawful owners makes a difference to crime levels.... The tards incessantly refer to a powerful gun-lobby in Australia.... where is it, I'm looking, all I see is a national associated being no PRO-active, but RE-active to attacks.

Yes, the status quo works for the SS, it keep the members 'compelled' to join and pay....so dont rock the boat too much, last thing they want is to remove the genuine reason.

[trekin]

Indeed, but what we need to do is build up the SSAA and motivate them. We need to be active, same goes at election time. We are too silent.

Motivation is a good point.

There are a lot of shooters who don't have any time for the SSAA and speak out against them as a waste of money.

SSAA never seems to respond to it though to improve things. No statements of we hear you and will try to do better they just keep on the same.

It seems theSSAA hasnt changed in the last 10 years. Still limp wristed,factionalised, inept and floundering. However it is like this because we as the members keep voting in the same type of people.

We need shooters to stand up and run, we need other shooters to vote for them. People who will buck the status quo.

That wont happen though.

We have increasing voice and presence, our sport is back to pre 96 levels of membership etc, we have people in parliament. We have a generational change since 96, more new and younger shooter. Now is the time to use this strength and get some of what we lost back. Do this with reason, positive messages, logic. Take the emotion out of the argument.

This needs to be done from the man on the street all the way to a nation.

Sorry i wrote this on an iphone.

Unfortunately most of those "new and younger shooter" have been brainwashed into believing the laws as they are now are exceptable, and who needs a semi anyway, and the NFA is the best thing since sliced bread. And a lot of this brainwashing has come from within our own ranks!!