SMH article

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: SMH article

Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 7:52 am

So they do their job and you get hung up on stupid details.....

I'll get off my horse when you climb off your band wagon and hang up your pitch fork.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:08 am

Gwion wrote:So they do their job and you get hung up on stupid details.....

I'll get off my horse when you climb off your band wagon and hang up your pitch fork.


Who is hung up on stupid details?
We can all read just like you, he had his firearms and licence revoked years ago, now he gets busted with a few illegal firearms and a house full of toys.
I've seen some mention that Police chased him up because they believed he was planning to commit an atrocity of some kind. I'm not convinced as he looks more of a hoarder than somebody that could organise anything.

I haven't seen any propaganda painting this to be a licenced firearm owner that makes the rest of us look bad.

Pitch fork? I'm not after anybody.
No idea about the bandwagon, seems you're the one riding the bandwagon.
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Re: SMH article

Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 8:20 am

Band wagon: "we are all so hard done by as shooters"
Pitch fork: "the cops and media can't do their job right: if they'd just listen to me, everything would be perfect"
Hung up on detail: "they don't know how many rounds I need for shooting (insert ancient history here)", "they think books on snipers are bad but look at my list of bang bang books"

Nope... that's not you at all.....

The cops actually have actually done their job here and you are crapping on about how they could have done it sooner if they had left you alone....

JTFC!

Isn't the major question here: "how are they going to investigate the source of all these illicit firearms and prevent some other nutter amassing a similar cashe?"

Nope. It's: "why do they think someone obsessed with terrorism, security protocols and sniper tactics is potentially NQR?"
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Re: SMH article

Post by Daddybang » 03 Sep 2018, 8:24 am

bladeracer wrote:
Gwion wrote:So they do their job and you get hung up on stupid details.....

I'll get off my horse when you climb off your band wagon and hang up your pitch fork.[/qu

I've seen some mention that Police chased him up because they believed he was planning to commit an atrocity of some kind. .


According to a story on the ABC website the police only chased him up because of a tip off from border farce that he'd been importing parts.?? :unknown: :drinks:
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Re: SMH article

Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 8:30 am

So, are the cops just supposed to be dropping in every few months?

What laws have to change for that to be possible?
What controls would be in place so that the power isn't used maliciously?
What would prevent the nut bag claiming harassment if the cops had just periodically searching his place?

Genuine questions to find some possible solutions to make sure the law focuses on those doing the wrong thing and not just trying to tighten down on us as LAFO.....

Well, that's probably a first for Boarder Force.... doing something useful BEFORE it's too late! :unknown: :drinks:
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:33 am

Gwion wrote:Band wagon: "we are all so hard done by as shooters"
Pitch fork: "the cops and media can't do their job right: if they'd just listen to me, everything would be perfect"
Hung up on detail: "they don't know how many rounds I need for shooting (insert ancient history here)", "they think books on snipers are bad but look at my list of bang bang books"

Nope... that's not you at all.....

The cops actually have actually done their job here and you are crapping on about how they could have done it sooner if they had left you alone....

JTFC!

Isn't the major question here: "how are they going to investigate the source of all these illicit firearms and prevent some other nutter amassing a similar cashe?"

Nope. It's: "why do they think someone obsessed with terrorism, security protocols and sniper tactics is potentially NQR?"


Where did I say anything about shooters being hard done by?
Where did I say anything about the Police not having done their job, and with a good result, or anything about listening to me about anything? Was I even part of whatever conversation you were having?
Do you agree with the authorities that we shooters only need twenty rounds of ammo?
Or that we should all be locked up for possessing freely-available books?
These are the two points in the beat-up that stand out to me. Ammo limits are a genuine threat to all firearm owners, and people have already been charged with possessing too much ammo. And nobody should ever be targeted because of what they choose to read.

I don't even understand the next bit. When did the Police bother me at all, and how would they have produced this result earlier than they have?

Did you read the articles at all? It started out being reported as a haul of 200 illegal firearms being seized, We now understand it's a couple of rifles and some handguns, the rest of the "arms cache" is essentially a collection of toys, not weapons.

You can draw that bow if you wish but I have no interest in how they're going to investigate the source of half-a-dozen illegal firearms that probably haven't even been used for criminal activity. He may well have owned these firearms for decades illegally and never used them criminally at all. SKS rifles were perfectly legal before '96, not even restricted, and I believe not even registered in some states.

We all know illegal firearms exist and are readily available to those that want them, that is never going to change regardless of how many resources the Police throw at the problem. I never asked any question about his book collection having any bearing on his being targeted by Police. Unless he has books that are essentially "underground" rather than available in any bookshop you care to peruse I don't see any relevance here at all.
Last edited by bladeracer on 03 Sep 2018, 8:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:37 am

Gwion wrote:Well, that's probably a first for Boarder Force.... doing something useful BEFORE it's too late! :unknown: :drinks:


They're on their toes!
They intercepted a bag of plastic BB's I imported from overseas, although having the package contents stated as "Airsoft BB Ammunition" may have been a give away :-) Imagine the carnage if a bag of BB's were freely available to underworld elements with Airsoft weapons!
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:40 am

Gwion wrote:So, are the cops just supposed to be dropping in every few months?

What laws have to change for that to be possible?
What controls would be in place so that the power isn't used maliciously?
What would prevent the nut bag claiming harassment if the cops had just periodically searching his place?

Genuine questions to find some possible solutions to make sure the law focuses on those doing the wrong thing and not just trying to tighten down on us as LAFO.....


There is nothing the authorities can do to prevent anybody from getting whatever weapons they want. You would have to have a person under absolute scrutiny 24/7 to even try to do so. Whether they've already been charged with similar offences, or are seriously unstable, the authorities have no way of preventing people from getting what they want in a free society - perhaps in North Korea.
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Re: SMH article

Post by knowsnothin » 03 Sep 2018, 8:45 am

UPDATE. !!!!!

today he is planning a mass shooting AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHH.



https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/ ... 1c8451a773
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Re: SMH article

Post by Daddybang » 03 Sep 2018, 8:46 am

Gwion wrote:
Well, that's probably a first for Boarder Force.... doing something useful BEFORE it's too late! :unknown: :drinks:


After the boat that made it to the mouth of the daintree river last week I'd have to agree with ya!!!! :lol: :drinks:
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:52 am

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Re: SMH article

Post by Wombat » 03 Sep 2018, 7:13 pm

Wombat wrote:One packet of 22 is more than you need ? Shows the thinking of NSW police.
I have gone through 500 rounds of 22 in a day quite a few times.
The fact they missed five handguns on their first search is a bit of a worry.

If anyone read this and interpreted it as defending the offender I'm lost for words. The comments on ammunition qty was in reference to what the NSW police spokesman said a legal sporting shooter would require.The comment on the missed handguns is critical of the first search ( not that it was carried out but its thoroughness).
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Re: SMH article

Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 8:05 pm

The point is the lack of focus on the actuasl details of the event in favour of picking apart minor details in reporting and police statements.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:17 pm

Gwion wrote:The point is the lack of focus on the actuasl details of the event in favour of picking apart minor details in reporting and police statements.


The reporting has changed very significantly (not minor details) just over six days of covering this, it may well keep changing yet.
Nothing I've seen has any relevance to licenced owners, the handful of firearms is virtually a non-issue alongside the 100+ blades he was collecting. I haven't seen anything about him committing any acts of violence with firearms or anything else. I just can't lump this incident in with the usual anti-firearm attacks against firearm owners, which is possibly unusual in itself. We know the media go quiet whenever suicide is mentioned, perhaps he was only a threat to himself so the media don't want to run with their usual tirade against shooters?
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:18 pm

Gwion wrote:The point is the lack of focus on the actuasl details of the event in favour of picking apart minor details in reporting and police statements.


If you point out precisely what argument you are trying get happening then perhaps some of can give you the discussion you prefer to see.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:34 pm

Wombat wrote:
Wombat wrote:One packet of 22 is more than you need ? Shows the thinking of NSW police.
I have gone through 500 rounds of 22 in a day quite a few times.
The fact they missed five handguns on their first search is a bit of a worry.


If anyone read this and interpreted it as defending the offender I'm lost for words. The comments on ammunition qty was in reference to what the NSW police spokesman said a legal sporting shooter would require.The comment on the missed handguns is critical of the first search ( not that it was carried out but its thoroughness).


I was stumped by the response as well, I'm just not seeing any of the view Gwion claims we're pushing here.

I struggle to even consider the guy "an offender". I'm not aware he's committed any violent acts so why exactly shouldn't people defend him? I haven't even seen anything about him having any criminal history. Having his licence revoked could've been due to any number of piddling loopholes. Simply possessing firearms, that were perfectly legal and freely available to anybody with a firearms licence just a few years ago, doesn't make somebody a "criminal" in my book. If we can get our laws fixed they may well be legally available to all firearms owners, as they should be. Just seems to be a bloke struggling, understandably, after many years within the Corrective Services. My girlfriend worked in Corrections working with female lifers for a short period and it made her very unwell. Takes a special kind of person to deal every day with people that just have zero interest in being part of the society the rest of us cherish and take for granted. I hope he gets the help he's looking for and gets his life back on track.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bigrich » 03 Sep 2018, 8:48 pm

scary thing is, this guy is probably not the only one out there. man, did he have a collection of swords and blades or what ! with your book collection BR your probably on a watch list now ;) :thumbsup:
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:54 pm

bigrich wrote:scary thing is, this guy is probably not the only one out there. man, did he have a collection of swords and blades or what ! with your book collection BR your probably on a watch list now ;) :thumbsup:


I'm sure there are plenty of nutters around, but being a nutter doesn't mean somebody is unhinged or dangerous.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in law enforcement and military that have far more extensive libraries than mine :-)
I don't mind being on a watch list, always happy to help them out should they need some advice or study material.
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Re: SMH article

Post by sungazer » 04 Sep 2018, 9:54 am

Reading his FB page makes for a very sad story. It reads to me as he was in corrections and became depressed left his job or was put off for that reason which then sparked the revocation of his license. From that point on is unclear but it appears he was able to then get firearms again. The rest is incidental Knives and books are legal they are used by police and media to make something look bigger than it actually is. Same for the ammo amounts.
If BR were ever to fall short of the law the beat up article would read like he was terrorist number 1.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 04 Sep 2018, 1:23 pm

sungazer wrote:Reading his FB page makes for a very sad story. It reads to me as he was in corrections and became depressed left his job or was put off for that reason which then sparked the revocation of his license. From that point on is unclear but it appears he was able to then get firearms again. The rest is incidental Knives and books are legal they are used by police and media to make something look bigger than it actually is. Same for the ammo amounts.
If BR were ever to fall short of the law the beat up article would read like he was terrorist number 1.


Yep, and obviously an enthusiastic shooter and hunter whose depression would not have improved by having that taken away from him.

As for the knives, do the Police lay out all the kitchenware for the media photos every time they raid somebody's house? They might take all sorts of legal and inoffensive property if they believe it to be evidentiary, but the media and Police are just beating up a non-story. Take all of that rubbish out of it and you have a very depressed bloke with an illegal rifle and some handguns that hasn't done any harm to anybody. Most of his charges are probably for "improperly secured ammunition" and "improper firearm storage" rather than anything criminal.

If the media hadn't started off with the "Sydney man found with 200 guns allegedly preparing for mass shooting" headline the story would've died on the first day.
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Re: SMH article

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 04 Sep 2018, 1:30 pm

Ppl only buy newspapers if the is news to read. And they are likely to read the news most that is got a big heading or is sensational. So media outlets like to make big stories appear than it is.
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Re: SMH article

Post by Gaznazdiak » 04 Sep 2018, 2:27 pm

The journalists writing these stories are so ignorant it's not funny.

I read an ABC article the other day about magnet "fishing" where people tie a high pull neodymium magnet onto a length of rope and trawl around to see what comes up.

Among the shopping trolleys and car wheels, they list, they reported that the guy featured had found a haul of "shotgun bullets", they even had a photo, of a pile of rifle ammo that looked to be 7.62x39.

These are the types that blow things totally out of proportion for dramatic effect, or simply because they are too lazy to research their way out of their ignorance.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-30/m ... e/10177140
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