SMH article

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SMH article

Post by Archie » 02 Sep 2018, 1:27 pm

I think two things went through my head when I read this

1/ Thank god they got him, because no one should have this sort of stuff when they've already been charged with firearm offences but avoided conviction on mental health grounds. Even allowing for a bit of media hysteria in the reporting, mental illness + semi-autos = potential for very bad things. The definition of a non-LAFO.
2/ 2000 rounds isn't really that much, is it...or is that just me?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/mas ... 5018v.html
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Re: SMH article

Post by YoungBuck » 02 Sep 2018, 1:43 pm

Meh these things don't bother me. The fact that he has multiple rifles and knives doesn't indicate he was going to do anything at all.
Only takes a single firearm or knife for someone to go on a rampage. Media hysteria imo.
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Post by Daddybang » 02 Sep 2018, 2:31 pm

Sounds like he has a few issues and its probably a sensible idea to take his toys away but as Youngbuck said there's a lot of media hype.....from the headlines I thought that he would've had ahundred rifles as for the ammo how does that equate to "twenty times" what a sport shooter would require????? :unknown: :unknown: :drinks:
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Re: SMH article

Post by sungazer » 02 Sep 2018, 2:48 pm

At some comps over 5 days you can shoot 300 rounds. That is going to be your best comp rounds, so you have many more for other less serious comps use's and that is for just one gun.
Other guns you might use 6 different projectiles just like fishing lures or fishing hooks at 100 of each that soon adds up
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Post by No1_49er » 02 Sep 2018, 3:38 pm

If NSW plod thinks that 2000 rounds is 50x more than a "sporting shooter" would need, he's got absolutely no idea.
If I find the holy grail rimfire ammo for any of my 22s, I think nothing of buying a couple of cases. Testing ammo is an unproductive waste of time, at least until you've run out of the two cases. 10,000 - easy.
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Re: SMH article

Post by Daddybang » 02 Sep 2018, 4:12 pm

No1_49er wrote:If NSW plod thinks that 2000 rounds is 50x more.


And that's the f@#kin media for ya on the local radio it was only twenty times!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: SMH article

Post by Wombat » 02 Sep 2018, 4:20 pm

One packet of 22 is more than you need ? Shows the thinking of NSW police.
I have gone through 500 rounds of 22 in a day quite a few times.
The fact they missed five handguns on their first search is a bit of a worry.
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Post by 1Fatman » 02 Sep 2018, 4:42 pm

"...and a number of books by famous snipers"
Geeez I had better hand my firearms in or get rid of my books.
I have quiet a large collection of books going from the Civil War to present plus numerous books about snipers including a couple of Civil war snipers, Jack Hinson and Joe Head.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 02 Sep 2018, 6:19 pm

sungazer wrote:At some comps over 5 days you can shoot 300 rounds. That is going to be your best comp rounds, so you have many more for other less serious comps use's and that is for just one gun.
Other guns you might use 6 different projectiles just like fishing lures or fishing hooks at 100 of each that soon adds up


When I was shooting IPSC we shot a minimum 100rds every Sunday, every week, just in competition. A practice day during the week was hundreds of rounds.

Any copper that thinks any shooter only needs 100rds is definitely going to be pushing for ammo limits - way out of touch with reality. Must figure the 60rds he has to shoot every year to be ready to take down the terrorists makes him very special.
I must have something like 15,000rds of .22LR, and a hell of a lot more than 2000rds of centrefire ammo.
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Post by Noisydad » 02 Sep 2018, 6:21 pm

With all those arrows it would’ve been a “concern” had they found a bucket of goose fat to make them armour piercing.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 02 Sep 2018, 6:22 pm

Archie wrote:I think two things went through my head when I read this

1/ Thank god they got him, because no one should have this sort of stuff when they've already been charged with firearm offences but avoided conviction on mental health grounds. Even allowing for a bit of media hysteria in the reporting, mental illness + semi-autos = potential for very bad things. The definition of a non-LAFO.
2/ 2000 rounds isn't really that much, is it...or is that just me?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/mas ... 5018v.html


When this hit the news last week the SKS was a "military assault rifle" :-)
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Post by Noisydad » 02 Sep 2018, 6:40 pm

I cast over 2000 bullets per year!
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 02 Sep 2018, 7:16 pm

1Fatman wrote:"...and a number of books by famous snipers"
Geeez I had better hand my firearms in or get rid of my books.
I have quiet a large collection of books going from the Civil War to present plus numerous books about snipers including a couple of Civil war snipers, Jack Hinson and Joe Head.


Yep, I have a decent collection of sniper books, some of whom have written long-range shooting manuals aimed at civilians. I have an extensive collection of first-hand accounts of pilots, soldiers, sailors and such. I read Ernst Junger's Storm of Steel again last week.

Some of my books related to sniping etc:
The Anatomy of Motive, John Douglas
The Mosin Nagant Performance Tuning Handbook
The Paper Jacket, Paul A Matthews
303 Rifle No 4 Marks 1, & 1*, Marks 1/2 1/3 & 2, Ian Skennerton
Also eleven of Skennerton's rifle-specifc books.
The 2012 Complete Book on Lee Enfield Accurizing
NEW American Warrior: The True Story of a Legendary Ranger, Gary O'Neal
Danger Close: Commanding 3 PARA Afghanistan, Stuart Tootal
Shock Factor: American Snipers in the War on Terror, John R Bruning
Repairing the "March of Mars" : The Civil War Diaries of John Samuel Apperson
Blood Clot: In Combat with the Patrols Platoon, 3 Para, Jake Scott
SILENT WARRIOR : Marine Sniper's Vietnam Story, Charles Henderson
Fighting Scared: Para, Mercenary, SAS, Sniper, Robin Horsfall
Snipers, Craig Cabell, Richard Brown, Frederick Forsyth, David L. Robbins
Shooter: The Autobiography of the Top-Ranked Marine Sniper, Jack Coughlin
Snipers And Shooters: The kill shot out of nowhere, Bill Wallace
Hunters: U.S. Snipers in the War on Terror by Milo S. Afong
SAS Sniper - the World of an Elite Australian Marksman, Rob Maylor
Inside the Crosshairs: Snipers, Michael Lee Lanning
The Longest Kill: The Story of Maverick 41, One of the World's Greatest Snipers
Billy Sing Australias Deadliest Sniper, Dunn, Jeff
Sniper One: The Blistering True Story of a British Battle Group Under Siege, Sgt Dan Mills
13 Cent Killers: The 5th Marine Snipers in Vietnam, John J. Culbertson
Seal Team Six: The incredible story of an elite sniper
A Sniper in the Arizona: 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines, 1967, John Culbertson
We Were Soldiers Once...And Young, Harold G Moore
Jack Hinson's One-Man War, Tom McKenney
Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle
The War Against the Terrorists: How to Win It, Gayle Rivers
The Lee-Enfield Rifle, Martin Pegler
Mauser Military Rifles, Neil Grant
Practical Ballistics An Introductory Guide for Rifle and Shotgun
The Wind Book for Rifle Shooters, Keith Cunningham
Long-Range Precision Rifle, Expanded Edition: The Complete Guide to Hitting Targets at Distance
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa, E B Sledge
Blood On The Wattle - Massacres & Maltreatment Of Australian Aborigines
Way of the Reaper: My Greatest Untold Missions and the Art of Being a Sniper
The Reaper, Nicholas Irving
The Specialist, Gayle Rivers (fiction)
Cartridges of the World
HOSTAGE RESCUE MANUAL, Leroy Thompson
SAS Eye of the Storm, Pwter Ratcliffe
SOLDIER'S STORY, Jack Ramsay
TheRescuers: The World's Top Anti-Terrorist Units, Leroy Thompson
SAS: True Stories of the Elite Forces Jon E Lewis
The Fighting Season, Bram Connolly DSM (fiction by an Aussie Commando with three tours in Afghanistan)

There are a lot more :-)
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Post by marksman » 02 Sep 2018, 8:25 pm

I'm pretty sure most of the round count were from 22 rimfire ammo, media hype I think :thumbsdown:
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Post by 1Fatman » 02 Sep 2018, 8:54 pm

bladeracer wrote:
1Fatman wrote:"...and a number of books by famous snipers"
Geeez I had better hand my firearms in or get rid of my books.
I have quiet a large collection of books going from the Civil War to present plus numerous books about snipers including a couple of Civil war snipers, Jack Hinson and Joe Head.


Yep, I have a decent collection of sniper books, some of whom have written long-range shooting manuals aimed at civilians. I have an extensive collection of first-hand accounts of pilots, soldiers, sailors and such. I read Ernst Junger's Storm of Steel again last week.

Some of my books related to sniping etc:
The Anatomy of Motive, John Douglas
The Mosin Nagant Performance Tuning Handbook
The Paper Jacket, Paul A Matthews
303 Rifle No 4 Marks 1, & 1*, Marks 1/2 1/3 & 2, Ian Skennerton
Also eleven of Skennerton's rifle-specifc books.
The 2012 Complete Book on Lee Enfield Accurizing
NEW American Warrior: The True Story of a Legendary Ranger, Gary O'Neal
Danger Close: Commanding 3 PARA Afghanistan, Stuart Tootal
Shock Factor: American Snipers in the War on Terror, John R Bruning
Repairing the "March of Mars" : The Civil War Diaries of John Samuel Apperson
Blood Clot: In Combat with the Patrols Platoon, 3 Para, Jake Scott
SILENT WARRIOR : Marine Sniper's Vietnam Story, Charles Henderson
Fighting Scared: Para, Mercenary, SAS, Sniper, Robin Horsfall
Snipers, Craig Cabell, Richard Brown, Frederick Forsyth, David L. Robbins
Shooter: The Autobiography of the Top-Ranked Marine Sniper, Jack Coughlin
Snipers And Shooters: The kill shot out of nowhere, Bill Wallace
Hunters: U.S. Snipers in the War on Terror by Milo S. Afong
SAS Sniper - the World of an Elite Australian Marksman, Rob Maylor
Inside the Crosshairs: Snipers, Michael Lee Lanning
The Longest Kill: The Story of Maverick 41, One of the World's Greatest Snipers
Billy Sing Australias Deadliest Sniper, Dunn, Jeff
Sniper One: The Blistering True Story of a British Battle Group Under Siege, Sgt Dan Mills
13 Cent Killers: The 5th Marine Snipers in Vietnam, John J. Culbertson
Seal Team Six: The incredible story of an elite sniper
A Sniper in the Arizona: 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines, 1967, John Culbertson
We Were Soldiers Once...And Young, Harold G Moore
Jack Hinson's One-Man War, Tom McKenney
Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle
The War Against the Terrorists: How to Win It, Gayle Rivers
The Lee-Enfield Rifle, Martin Pegler
Mauser Military Rifles, Neil Grant
Practical Ballistics An Introductory Guide for Rifle and Shotgun
The Wind Book for Rifle Shooters, Keith Cunningham
Long-Range Precision Rifle, Expanded Edition: The Complete Guide to Hitting Targets at Distance
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa, E B Sledge
Blood On The Wattle - Massacres & Maltreatment Of Australian Aborigines
Way of the Reaper: My Greatest Untold Missions and the Art of Being a Sniper
The Reaper, Nicholas Irving
The Specialist, Gayle Rivers (fiction)
Cartridges of the World
HOSTAGE RESCUE MANUAL, Leroy Thompson
SAS Eye of the Storm, Pwter Ratcliffe
SOLDIER'S STORY, Jack Ramsay
TheRescuers: The World's Top Anti-Terrorist Units, Leroy Thompson
SAS: True Stories of the Elite Forces Jon E Lewis
The Fighting Season, Bram Connolly DSM (fiction by an Aussie Commando with three tours in Afghanistan)

There are a lot more :-)



There are some rippers in there. I have quiet a few of the same ones.
You better hope they don't search your house , might think bad thoughts :friends: :drinks:
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 02 Sep 2018, 9:06 pm

1Fatman wrote:There are some rippers in there. I have quiet a few of the same ones.
You better hope they don't search your house , might think bad thoughts :friends: :drinks:


No searching required, they're all on display on our extensive book shelves :-)
I just grabbed those from my recent Ebay history, I've been collecting books since I was a kid, along with lots of other stuff - I'm a voracious reader :-)
My mum would bring home boxes and boxes of books every year when the local school libraries sold off their old stock.

Been reading a lot of Robert B Parker, Lawrence Block and Kathy Reichs recently, but I just started re-reading Leslie Charteris' "The Saint" novels (in order of course) for the fifth or sixth time :-)
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Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 7:31 am

Excerpt from linked article:
"Police are expecting to charge the man with at least 20 charges relating to firearms and weapons offences once he is released from hospital.

Mr Smith said the man lost the right to have a gun licence in 2009 and has previously faced charges relating to weapons-related offences, but was not convicted on mental health grounds."


So this bloke has been deemed unfit to hold a firearms licence since 2009, after escaping conviction on weapons charges due to mental health issues, ie: found not responsible for crimes due to mental instability (an issue many of you complain about ad nausium within the criminal justice system, ie: crooks getting off because they have a hard upbringing or mental issues), owns restricted categoryD firearms both unlicensed and not registered. He has acted in such a way as to draw enough attention to himself to cause police to gain a warrant to search his property.

All the above, he is NOT a law abiding firearms owner and you guys focus on the fact that the article mentions a bunch of books and that the article misinterprets the number of rounds required by competitive shooters.

Well done on representing Law Abiding Firearms Owners in such a light that shows we are all concerned about nut jobs with firearms. Remember, the guy ESCAPED CONVICTION DUE TO MENTAL ISSUES and owned firearms that would have any of us locked up without appropriate licensing and documentation; and you guys virtually defend him....


f*** me!
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 7:48 am

Gwion wrote:All the above, he is NOT a law abiding firearms owner and you guys focus on the fact that the article mentions a bunch of books and that the article misinterprets the number of rounds required by competitive shooters.

Well done on representing Law Abiding Firearms Owners in such a light that shows we are all concerned about nut jobs with firearms. Remember, the guy ESCAPED CONVICTION DUE TO MENTAL ISSUES and owned firearms that would have any of us locked up without appropriate licensing and documentation; and you guys virtually defend him....


f*** me!


Perhaps climb down off the high horse.
The story is a week old so I've already been through that side of it elsewhere.
I haven't seen anybody defending him in the remotest way.
The guy should very clearly have been on the radar of the authorities for at least ten years, but while they've been focusing on keep us in line this guy has been free to gather his little "arsenal".
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Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 7:52 am

So they do their job and you get hung up on stupid details.....

I'll get off my horse when you climb off your band wagon and hang up your pitch fork.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:08 am

Gwion wrote:So they do their job and you get hung up on stupid details.....

I'll get off my horse when you climb off your band wagon and hang up your pitch fork.


Who is hung up on stupid details?
We can all read just like you, he had his firearms and licence revoked years ago, now he gets busted with a few illegal firearms and a house full of toys.
I've seen some mention that Police chased him up because they believed he was planning to commit an atrocity of some kind. I'm not convinced as he looks more of a hoarder than somebody that could organise anything.

I haven't seen any propaganda painting this to be a licenced firearm owner that makes the rest of us look bad.

Pitch fork? I'm not after anybody.
No idea about the bandwagon, seems you're the one riding the bandwagon.
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Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 8:20 am

Band wagon: "we are all so hard done by as shooters"
Pitch fork: "the cops and media can't do their job right: if they'd just listen to me, everything would be perfect"
Hung up on detail: "they don't know how many rounds I need for shooting (insert ancient history here)", "they think books on snipers are bad but look at my list of bang bang books"

Nope... that's not you at all.....

The cops actually have actually done their job here and you are crapping on about how they could have done it sooner if they had left you alone....

JTFC!

Isn't the major question here: "how are they going to investigate the source of all these illicit firearms and prevent some other nutter amassing a similar cashe?"

Nope. It's: "why do they think someone obsessed with terrorism, security protocols and sniper tactics is potentially NQR?"
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Post by Daddybang » 03 Sep 2018, 8:24 am

bladeracer wrote:
Gwion wrote:So they do their job and you get hung up on stupid details.....

I'll get off my horse when you climb off your band wagon and hang up your pitch fork.[/qu

I've seen some mention that Police chased him up because they believed he was planning to commit an atrocity of some kind. .


According to a story on the ABC website the police only chased him up because of a tip off from border farce that he'd been importing parts.?? :unknown: :drinks:
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Post by Gwion » 03 Sep 2018, 8:30 am

So, are the cops just supposed to be dropping in every few months?

What laws have to change for that to be possible?
What controls would be in place so that the power isn't used maliciously?
What would prevent the nut bag claiming harassment if the cops had just periodically searching his place?

Genuine questions to find some possible solutions to make sure the law focuses on those doing the wrong thing and not just trying to tighten down on us as LAFO.....

Well, that's probably a first for Boarder Force.... doing something useful BEFORE it's too late! :unknown: :drinks:
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Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:33 am

Gwion wrote:Band wagon: "we are all so hard done by as shooters"
Pitch fork: "the cops and media can't do their job right: if they'd just listen to me, everything would be perfect"
Hung up on detail: "they don't know how many rounds I need for shooting (insert ancient history here)", "they think books on snipers are bad but look at my list of bang bang books"

Nope... that's not you at all.....

The cops actually have actually done their job here and you are crapping on about how they could have done it sooner if they had left you alone....

JTFC!

Isn't the major question here: "how are they going to investigate the source of all these illicit firearms and prevent some other nutter amassing a similar cashe?"

Nope. It's: "why do they think someone obsessed with terrorism, security protocols and sniper tactics is potentially NQR?"


Where did I say anything about shooters being hard done by?
Where did I say anything about the Police not having done their job, and with a good result, or anything about listening to me about anything? Was I even part of whatever conversation you were having?
Do you agree with the authorities that we shooters only need twenty rounds of ammo?
Or that we should all be locked up for possessing freely-available books?
These are the two points in the beat-up that stand out to me. Ammo limits are a genuine threat to all firearm owners, and people have already been charged with possessing too much ammo. And nobody should ever be targeted because of what they choose to read.

I don't even understand the next bit. When did the Police bother me at all, and how would they have produced this result earlier than they have?

Did you read the articles at all? It started out being reported as a haul of 200 illegal firearms being seized, We now understand it's a couple of rifles and some handguns, the rest of the "arms cache" is essentially a collection of toys, not weapons.

You can draw that bow if you wish but I have no interest in how they're going to investigate the source of half-a-dozen illegal firearms that probably haven't even been used for criminal activity. He may well have owned these firearms for decades illegally and never used them criminally at all. SKS rifles were perfectly legal before '96, not even restricted, and I believe not even registered in some states.

We all know illegal firearms exist and are readily available to those that want them, that is never going to change regardless of how many resources the Police throw at the problem. I never asked any question about his book collection having any bearing on his being targeted by Police. Unless he has books that are essentially "underground" rather than available in any bookshop you care to peruse I don't see any relevance here at all.
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:37 am

Gwion wrote:Well, that's probably a first for Boarder Force.... doing something useful BEFORE it's too late! :unknown: :drinks:


They're on their toes!
They intercepted a bag of plastic BB's I imported from overseas, although having the package contents stated as "Airsoft BB Ammunition" may have been a give away :-) Imagine the carnage if a bag of BB's were freely available to underworld elements with Airsoft weapons!
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:40 am

Gwion wrote:So, are the cops just supposed to be dropping in every few months?

What laws have to change for that to be possible?
What controls would be in place so that the power isn't used maliciously?
What would prevent the nut bag claiming harassment if the cops had just periodically searching his place?

Genuine questions to find some possible solutions to make sure the law focuses on those doing the wrong thing and not just trying to tighten down on us as LAFO.....


There is nothing the authorities can do to prevent anybody from getting whatever weapons they want. You would have to have a person under absolute scrutiny 24/7 to even try to do so. Whether they've already been charged with similar offences, or are seriously unstable, the authorities have no way of preventing people from getting what they want in a free society - perhaps in North Korea.
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Re: SMH article

Post by knowsnothin » 03 Sep 2018, 8:45 am

UPDATE. !!!!!

today he is planning a mass shooting AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHH.



https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/ ... 1c8451a773
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Re: SMH article

Post by Daddybang » 03 Sep 2018, 8:46 am

Gwion wrote:
Well, that's probably a first for Boarder Force.... doing something useful BEFORE it's too late! :unknown: :drinks:


After the boat that made it to the mouth of the daintree river last week I'd have to agree with ya!!!! :lol: :drinks:
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Re: SMH article

Post by bladeracer » 03 Sep 2018, 8:52 am

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Re: SMH article

Post by Wombat » 03 Sep 2018, 7:13 pm

Wombat wrote:One packet of 22 is more than you need ? Shows the thinking of NSW police.
I have gone through 500 rounds of 22 in a day quite a few times.
The fact they missed five handguns on their first search is a bit of a worry.

If anyone read this and interpreted it as defending the offender I'm lost for words. The comments on ammunition qty was in reference to what the NSW police spokesman said a legal sporting shooter would require.The comment on the missed handguns is critical of the first search ( not that it was carried out but its thoroughness).
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