Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Daddybang » 21 Sep 2018, 9:52 am

Wedgies are territorial however when there's an abundant food source it's not unusual to see many birds in an area. Drive thru parts of the territory and western qld at certain times of the year and it's common to see a bird every couple of hundred meters eating rd kill.
I once saw a wedgie and a sea eagle sharing a pig just out of weipa !!! :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 21 Sep 2018, 10:09 am

There's some big ones up there eh DB?

I was working west of Katherine in '95 and remember seeing one on the side of the Victoria Hwy that was bigger than the dead roo she was eating. I stopped to take a photo and she wasn't the slightest afraid of me, she spread her wings over the roo and gave me some serious stink-eye to let me know who was going te be eating it.
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Daddybang » 21 Sep 2018, 10:36 am

F@#ken oath gaz ya not wrong there mate!! :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Rod_outbak » 21 Sep 2018, 10:36 am

I'm not condoning the blokes actions for a moment, but eagles CAN become a problem in certain circumstances.

A few points:

1). During the year, we might have a dozen mated pairs of Wedgies on our property; spread across some 256 square kilometers of country(CW QLD). For the most part, they seem to prey on roo joeys and other small animals, so of little concern to us, and part of the ecology. Regular occurrence to see a pair hassling a doe to get her to abandon the joey. Also seen a pair following a cat who was out for a morning walkies, and Puddin never realised that I was only the second-worst possible ending to his day... BIG thumbs-up to Wedgies for this sort of predation!

2). When we start lambing (July-Sep), we can suddenly have 50-60 eagles here for the duration of lambing. And they dont just take a handful of lambs. And they dont just take the weak or unattended lambs. And if each pair is only taking just one lamb every two days, that still adds up to a LOT of lost sheep!
I have seen a healthy lamb snatched from right beside it's mother. They are a very successful predator.
Thankfully, most years, the availability of other food means we have little concern for the eagles through lambing, but there have been some years when they have been a problem, and DAFF and other government agencies dont want to address the issue AT ALL.
VERY frustrating.
Stewardship of the land is about management, and NOT putting your head in the sand when it gets a bit tough.

3). I'd be freaking AMAZED if the bloke is using 1080 dog baits to nail Wedgies. The amount of 1080 in a properly prepared dog bait is too low to kill a Wedgie; even if Wedgie eats every bait he finds. The LD50 toxicity of 1080 on birds is 14mg/Kg of bodyweight, wheras a dog's LD50 toxicity is 0.08mg/Kg. When dog baits are prepared correctly, they should have roughly 2mg of 1080 on the outside of the 250gram meat bait. Now, a Wedgie would have to weigh in around ~8kg, so is going to need to eat around 100mg of 1080 to croak. That would require fully consuming around 50 meat baits(supposed to be around the size of a cigarette packet each), to get close to a lethal dose. Working on a dog bait being around ~250 grams, you would be looking at 12 kilograms of dog baits, and probably all consumed inside 24 hours, to be lethal.
Even for a seriously peckish Wedgie, that is a stretch.
Also, as properly prepared PIG baits are injected with ~6mg of 1080, it makes slightly more sense if the Wedgie is being nailed by pig 1080 baits. That way, he'd only need roughly 17 pig baits to nail him. Due to the injection, the poison is in a more concentrated spot in the bait, and so the eagle has a higher chance of consuming all of the poison in each bait.
Pig baits are usually slightly larger, but you'd still be looking at ~ 6-8kgs of baits consumed for it to be lethal for a Wedgie.
Still a stretch, and I'll still be amazed if he nailed the Wedgies in this fashion.

4). There are VASTLY more effective poisons to nail birds of prey. Many of them are commonly available from any farm chemical suppliers, and many dont require a permit or signature. Some of them will kill a Wedgie in a matter of seconds (as in; find the corpse 2 feet from the roo carcass that was baited).
My money is he was using one of these poisons.
Still awful.
Still wrong.
Still senseless.

5). I'm not saying I love 1080(Sodium Fluroacetate), but it is an extremely effective poison to use. Main incentive is that most native Australian animals have a much higher tolerance to it, compared to introduced species. That means that if applied properly, you have a much lower chance of nailing any natives when baiting. It's not perfect, but there isnt another poison that is as selective in Australia, at this point in time.
Being derived from native plant species, it also breaks down in water, which further reduces secondary poisoning likelihood.
I have heard experts say that the first thing that shuts down in a 1080-poisoned animal is the pain-reception area of the brain, so IF this is true, the howling that a dog makes when dying from it, mightnt be the animal feeling anything much at all. I cant verify this, and I'd be happy to not poison any animals, but then I'm also not a big fan of how some of the animals I've found ended their lives in a rubber-jawed trap, either.
The least traumatic solution for any animal I've seen, is a bullet through the head, while they are scratching themselves....
I've also spoken to a few vets who have successfully saved 1080-poisoned dogs. The trick is to hit them with Valium ASAP, and then they put them into a coma in a darkened quiet room for a couple of days, and the body will break the 1080 down. Not 100% effective, but the vet I spoke to said they had achieved somewhere around 80% success rate with saving poisoned dogs like this. I keep a shot of dog Valium in the coldroom for this purpose.

I've also seen 6-month lambs come into the sheepyards, with large festering dog bites, and in obvious pain from the infection. In most of these cases, the lamb needs euthanizing, to be kind to it. When a bitch is training a litter of pups, they can easily maul a few dozen sheep in a night, and while many will die that night, some will be found weeks later, and in pretty miserable shape. As much as I dont like the pain and suffering 1080 causes when animals are being poisoned by it, it doesnt come close to the pain and suffering those same animals cause to livestock.

My 2 cents.

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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by sungazer » 21 Sep 2018, 12:03 pm

Not so many down in Vic it is a good day when you see one or a pair. They mostly eat road kill here. I am sure there are some farmers that might say that they kill a lamb or two.
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Daddybang » 21 Sep 2018, 12:08 pm

sungazer wrote:Not so many down in Vic it is a good day when you see one or a pair. They mostly eat road kill here. I am sure there are some farmers that might say that they kill a lamb or two.


I knew the Tassie wedge tail was endangered but didn't realise there wasn't that many around Vic/NSW...Good to be able to add that info when I'm talking to the punters thanks sungazer :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Daddybang » 21 Sep 2018, 4:41 pm

And then ya get the c@#k smokin piece of sh@t running down emus and laughing then.posts it on the net. That's a c@nt that needs floggin!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 21 Sep 2018, 5:02 pm

One of his workers or contractors dubbed him in. So this might have been happening for a while...or someone rose dumped them there
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by marksman » 21 Sep 2018, 6:30 pm

he'll be laughing now, ar$ehole
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Stix » 21 Sep 2018, 10:38 pm

Roo farmer wrote:So, none of you are thinking, that just possibly, the eagles might have been eating his lambs? You all just think he went to the trouble of poisoning the eagles because he is simply a bad person?


Hey roo farmer,
I didnt think either of the points you mentioned in your post...
Nor did i say what you're suggesting i may have meant.
No point me explaining what i meant, its pretty self explanetory & you can read my post again if you like. .. :)
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by wolfthomas » 22 Sep 2018, 9:11 pm

I'm glad they've stopped this ill-eagle activity.
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Stix » 22 Sep 2018, 10:47 pm

:lol: :thumbsup:
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Tiger650 » 22 Sep 2018, 11:37 pm

sungazer wrote:There is something very strange about this article. I hate the fact that any eagles were killed at all and I am very much against it we have never even had a chicken taken. I know they found all the bodies in one place. But Wedge tail eagles are a very territorial bird an one pair may occupy several square kilometers (5). I see a pair around my area only very occasionally its not like there are heaps flying around. So how did this one guy manage to kill and find the bodies of them to bring back to one area. Has he been doing it for 30 years?


Good point.
May be total bulls**t story with no verification.
The malefactor in the story was a bloke of course, not a lesbian journalist.
I have been driving the Hume between Melbourne and Wodonga of late and most pleased to see more Eagles, I try to run over the crows feasting on dead Skippy but they are smart.
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Rod_outbak » 23 Sep 2018, 4:43 am

Am I right in thinking the Emu killer is from the same area as the Wedgie bloke?
Pretty sure I read yesterday that the Emu bloke was also NW Victoria.

What is it with NW Victoria and native wildlife at present?
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by sungazer » 23 Sep 2018, 9:37 am

I dont think it is a BS story at all I am afraid. I just wondered how so many birds could end up in one place. My first conspiracy theory was that perhaps a greeny group managed to collect all the skeletons and place them there in the one place to make a story. It was stated that they were in multiple phases of decomposition so had been deposited over a period of time.
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 23 Sep 2018, 11:01 am

Forget drones — this wedge-tailed eagle captures bird's eye view with camera
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-23/e ... a/10285372
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 23 Sep 2018, 11:07 am

Tiger650 wrote:
sungazer wrote:There is something very strange about this article. I hate the fact that any eagles were killed at all and I am very much against it we have never even had a chicken taken. I know they found all the bodies in one place. But Wedge tail eagles are a very territorial bird an one pair may occupy several square kilometers (5). I see a pair around my area only very occasionally its not like there are heaps flying around. So how did this one guy manage to kill and find the bodies of them to bring back to one area. Has he been doing it for 30 years?


Good point.
May be total bulls**t story with no verification.
The malefactor in the story was a bloke of course, not a lesbian journalist.
I have been driving the Hume between Melbourne and Wodonga of late and most pleased to see more Eagles, I try to run over the crows feasting on dead Skippy but they are smart.


I have to ask.

What makes you think the article is bullsh!t?

Why do you make the assumption that because the journalist was a woman and the arsehole who killed the eagles was a bloke, that she is a lesbian?

If the reporter had been male, would you automatically assume he was gay, or do you just not like women?
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 24 Sep 2018, 7:45 pm

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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Rod_outbak » 24 Sep 2018, 8:47 pm

Looks like I might have been right about the chemicals used; Lanate is one of the chemicals that is easily available for controlling cabbage-moths, and is sudden-death on raptors. Havent heard of the phosphorus chemical they mention.
Doesnt look like any 1080 poison was used; cant see they'd have been able to poison that many birds in just 2 years, without authorities noticing the excessive amount of 1080 baits being used.
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Daddybang » 25 Sep 2018, 6:38 am

Gday rod
Do they only use 1080 to poison dogs?
Up here I know a few old fellas that may use other stuff (one that starts with s) :silent: :drinks:
Either way this dog only getting 14 days and 2500 in fines is a F@#kin disgrace. :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Rod_outbak » 25 Sep 2018, 7:36 am

Daddybang,

If you still use steel-jawed traps(in QLD at least), you are supposed to use Strychnine on the jaws, to kill the animal ASAP. Recommended method is a cloth wired to the jaws; impregnated with Strychnine. Some of the other states still have this requirement.
I HATE using Strychnine, as it is too indiscriminate, and any animal(or human!) who gets trapped will likely be poisoned/killed. Some states have now banned the use of steel jawed traps, and we havent used steel-jawed traps here for over 15 years. However, there are some people who say that dogs can escape rubber-jawed traps, and so still use steel. I think this is a load of garbage; we have caught dogs that would have lost part of the foot, but escaped, if we'd been using steel-jaws. Also, steel-jaws will shatter legs, and the animal will often gnaw the shattered limb off, and escape.
We regularly find REALLY pissed-off sheep, pigs and roos in the rubber-jawed traps; alive and well(though seriously annoyed).
Strychnine will kill just about anything, with the possible exception of goannas, wheras properly applied 1080 is vastly more specific on the animals it will kill.

Another commonly used poison is CSSP, which has a phosphorus base, and burns the guts out. I remember many years ago, seeing sheep carcasses that had been baited wih CSSP, had mummified in the cold winter weather, and a 2mm shower of rain had caused the carcass to catch fire.
Scarey stuff, but still available, if you sign the poisons register at your local Ag supplies store.
It is supposed to be only used for pigs, but it is another very non-discriminate poison.

The thing about Lanate, is where 1080, CSSP and Strychnine all require an audit trail to purchase & use, Lanate would be an over-the-counter chemical that mightnt even need a signature for, and would be used regularly in that farming/orchard country around Mildura.

MANY years ago, there used to be a Fly-Strike chemical on the market called Luci-Jet. It was available for ~50 years, and phased out somewhere in the early 1980's. Luci-jet was often (illegally) used to bait carcasses, to nail crows, eagles, pigs, etc. The thing was, the amount of secondary and tertiary poisoning was off the chart. You could find animals dead from eating the crows that ate the dead pig that died from eating the freaking baited carcass!
REALLY nasty stuff.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the key chemical in Lanate, is the same chemical in Luci-Jet. Not likely to be the same concentration, but still something we dont want used incorrectly.

As bad a rap as 1080 gets, it is a far more target-specific and ecologically-responsible poison to use. Part of the reason for this, is there is much greater control over it's use, and it's biodegradable.
I still hope for the day where poisons can be a thing of history, but the feral populations across Australia dont suggest that will be any time soon.

[About the only thing less discriminate than Strychnine, were Dingo-Cannons, which were just sawn-off 12-gauge shotguns on a trip-wire. Banned well over a century ago, after they lost a few boundary-riders whilst fixing the fence... I'm not a big fan of Dingo-cannons, either!]

Cheers,

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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Daddybang » 25 Sep 2018, 8:56 am

Thanks for the info rod :thumbsup:
I'm not a huge user of poisons (I prefer to shoot any ferals on my block but can see where that wouldn't be totally viable on stations.
For some reason I was under the impression that strychnine was illegal to use up here but must have been reading about another state?? :drinks:
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Rod_outbak » 25 Sep 2018, 9:42 am

Yeas; cant remember which of the Southern states have banned Strychnine, but I think at least 2 or 3 of them have done so. Cant even remember which states still allow it, but QLD is one.
You buy the stuff from the chemist; of all things.
[Most other registered poisons are sold either through local council, the local Ag-Chem dealer(sign poisons register & ID recorded), or another state body.]
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by YoungBuck » 25 Sep 2018, 1:26 pm

Update on this.

Ms Paganis told the court three different chemicals were used to kill the eagles, but most of the eagle deaths were caused by the chemical Lannate.

"John Auer showed him how to do it by injecting the substances into the necks of lambs," Ms Paganis told the court.

Lannate caused the eagles to die within 30 minutes of feeding on the sheep and lamb carcasses, the court heard.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-24/m ... d/10298426
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Gaznazdiak » 25 Sep 2018, 1:39 pm

From the latest report:
"The court was told the maximum penalty for killing so many eagles was more than $350,000 or six months' jail."

Yet they give him 2 weeks in lockup and $2500 fine, despite finding it was voluntary, deliberate, and with full knowledge that they were protected?

What a fvcking joke our "justice" system has become.
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 25 Sep 2018, 1:43 pm

I would have been surprised if he was given anything more. Considering the woman who killed a boy got only 80hrs community service as she was on drugs and unlicensed at the time of the incident.

Saying that I was surprised a woman got 8 years jail for selling ice and other drugs for less than a year (ran the cartel in town) I reckon her lawyers should be able to go for re-trial ... lol
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Re: Man caught poisoning wedge-tailed eagles

Post by Archie » 25 Sep 2018, 6:28 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:From the latest report:
"The court was told the maximum penalty for killing so many eagles was more than $350,000 or six months' jail."

Yet they give him 2 weeks in lockup and $2500 fine, despite finding it was voluntary, deliberate, and with full knowledge that they were protected?

What a fvcking joke our "justice" system has become.


Yeah I did think it was a bit much that the government was talking about it being the first custodial sentence for wildlife destruction. I mean, it's two weeks. I'd rather not go to jail for two weeks but I'd happily take it if I had thought I was up for six months. Admittedly he did confess early and they did imply his boss kind of bullied him into it but yeah, 2 weeks seems a bit light to me.
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