Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

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Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by trekin » 12 Mar 2019, 10:20 am

Having dropped the ball on the outright banning of gelbasters are QPS now concidering classifying them as firearms. Reading between the lines, it appears so;
https://www.facebook.com/Ausgel/
For those not into FB;
Summary: Importer/Retailer/Venue/Player Meeting with Queensland Police Service Weapons Licensing

Feel free to share this far and wide.

Today, several store owners met with Queensland Police Service (QPS) Weapons Licensing. Present were: Donnybrook, Tac Toys, GBA, Hawkex, Ausgel, Spec Ops, Taidi Toys, Armoured Heaven, Tac Edge, Toowoomba Skirmish, Mango Hill Paintball, Command Elite Hobbies, Aussie Fun Times, Gel Tac, X-Force Tactical and several others. The discussion was in relation to introducing safety awareness to the world of Gel Blasters and to forge a path forward where we can all continue to enjoy our sport.

The event coordinator, A/Sergeant Tony Tatkovich from Weapons Licensing, was very welcoming to all participants and was able to maintain an atmosphere of light-hearted humour throughout. This was very encouraging to see. Tony identified himself as a Gel Blaster owner along with several other QPS ‘sworn’ officers. It should be noted that leading up to this event, there were a large number of people who messaged Ausgel with advice and question requests and a number of them were QPS Officers who already play at many local fields, discretely. Very cool.

There are however some genuine concerns that all lay outside of the ‘organised skirmish/sport’ crowd. Some statistics provided by QPS are as follows:

Incidents involving Gel Blasters

2017 – 5
2018 – 26
2019 – 31 (so far)

Of these, approximately 50% were calls of service (for police assistance).

23 of these incidents (approximately 37%) involved 18-year-old males.

‘Millions’ of blasters have been sold since their introduction to Australia.

The underlying police concern is in relation to people causing panic by displaying gel blasters in public places. Police acknowledged that there will always be ‘bad apples’ in any community, however, they also indicated that they want to be proactive in reducing incidents of this nature. All participants seemed to agree that this is an issue. QPS have advised that they would like stores to include an information sheet (yet to be officially released) either inside, or attached to, gel blasters at the point of sale. All retailers and importers agreed to this, once the material is available.

Police indicated that there will be a weblink available in the future to the information pamphlet as well as additional information pertaining to Gel Blasters and penalties for misuse. This will be viewable by the public.

Tips provided (by QPS and/or other participants) include:

• If you purchase a gel blaster, engage with your neighbours and let them know you have a toy blaster. This may prevent unnecessary calls for service.
• Use common sense when using your blaster – don’t run around your front yard in view of the general public.
• Don’t walk into a shopping centre with your blaster openly displayed.
• Transport your blaster in a bag or box to and from game venues – keep it concealed.
• If you are a retailer, use your judgement regarding who you sell to.

Statements/affirmations made by QPS Weapons Licensing are as follows:

- Gel Blasters are Toys.

- Gel Blasters are toys, regardless of the material they are made from (plastic or metal) – as long as they fire gels and not firearm ammunition. Thanks for asking the question Geltac. Metal handguards/bodies are ok at this point in time.

- Weapons Licensing are working with Ballistics in relation to FPS / KJ impact of gel balls. They reiterated a few times that if you upgrade your blaster, you are upgrading your toy – while upgrading of toys is not policed, they are in talks with Ballistics. [There will likely be more direction on FPS/KJ limits in the future – DT].

- QPS are in communication with South Australia Police who also allow Gel Blasters within their communities.

This was a great meeting, very positive and discussions remained respectable between stores and QPS. Well done to all participants and for your mature approach to this first discussion with QPS.

More meetings will come in the future, you will all be kept well and truly up to date by Ausgel and the abundance of other stores who attended.

-Dan
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 12 Mar 2019, 10:38 am

trekin wrote:This was a great meeting, very positive and discussions remained respectable between stores and QPS.


Glad it reamained respectable, I hate meetings where people start stripping off :sarcasm:

But seriously, good to see QPS aren't following the lunacy in NSW, as below:
http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/gun-l ... ose-cannon

And thanks for posting that Trekkin, those of us who don't subscribe to the Faceplant craze do miss out on some positives, as well as not being stalked by Markie Sucksalot :thumbsup:
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Daddybang » 12 Mar 2019, 10:58 am

As far as I know the qld courts have ruled they are toys so as long as they don't overturn that court ruling I don't see how qps can rate them as firearms. :unknown:
I'll have to check but I think Ausgel covered the court case and findings on their website.
(I know it was on one of the companies) :drinks:
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by trekin » 12 Mar 2019, 11:10 am

Daddybang wrote:As far as I know the qld courts have ruled they are toys so as long as they don't overturn that court ruling I don't see how qps can rate them as firearms. :unknown:
I'll have to check but I think Ausgel covered the court case and findings on their website.
(I know it was on one of the companies) :drinks:

And if QPS/WLB/Ballistics Dept can show that gelbasters can cause bodily harm (very loose definition of BH under the Criminal Code), then I'm sure they'll push for classification. And having QCAT telling QPS/WLB that Ballistics Dept is not recognised in the Act as a body to classify won't stop them, (recent Warwickarms case).
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by trekin » 12 Mar 2019, 11:11 am

Gaznazdiak wrote:
trekin wrote:This was a great meeting, very positive and discussions remained respectable between stores and QPS.


Glad it reamained respectable, I hate meetings where people start stripping off :sarcasm:

But seriously, good to see QPS aren't following the lunacy in NSW, as below:
http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/gun-l ... ose-cannon

And thanks for posting that Trekkin, those of us who don't subscribe to the Faceplant craze do miss out on some positives, as well as not being stalked by Markie Sucksalot :thumbsup:

Glad to help.
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Daddybang » 12 Mar 2019, 11:19 am

I don't know all the technical side but when I brought my two the first thing I did was shoot my foot from about thrirty cm away and it didn't leave a mark and my four yr old regularly gets hit by them when playing with our friends kids and doesn't flinch at all so I'm not sure how qps are ever going to prove that they can cause bodily harm :unknown:
I will caveat that by adding mine are not upgraded :friends:
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by JSS » 12 Mar 2019, 2:14 pm

Ours are upgraded and they sting a tiny bit, but you can still stand there point blank in a t-shirt and have a full magazine unloaded into you and not spill your beer. Yes they can leave little red marks but so long as you have some sort of eye protection they are less harmful than having a rock thrown at you.
Some of them can look very real so i understand and agree that if someone is waving one around in public they should have the book thrown at them, but as far as the guns themselves go they'd be more dangerous if you use them as a bat to beat someone rather than if you shoot them.
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by trekin » 12 Mar 2019, 2:24 pm

Daddybang wrote:I don't know all the technical side but when I brought my two the first thing I did was shoot my foot from about thrirty cm away and it didn't leave a mark and my four yr old regularly gets hit by them when playing with our friends kids and doesn't flinch at all so I'm not sure how qps are ever going to prove that they can cause bodily harm :unknown:
I will caveat that by adding mine are not upgraded :friends:

Two definitions from the Criminal Code to consider, and yes you and I know that it would be a hard push, but there are those out there who will try.
1. bodily harm means any bodily injury which interferes with health or comfort.
2. 245 Definition of assault
(1) A person who strikes, touches, or moves, or otherwise applies force of any kind to, the person of another, either directly or indirectly, without the other person’s consent, or with the other person’s consent if the consent is obtained by fraud, or who by any bodily act or gesture attempts or threatens to
apply force of any kind to the person of another without the other person’s consent, under such circumstances that the person making the attempt or threat has actually or apparently a present ability to effect the person’s purpose, is said to assault that other person, and the act is called an assault.
(2) In this section—
applies force includes the case of applying heat, light, electrical force, gas, odour, or any other substance or thing whatever if applied in such a degree as to cause injury or personal discomfort.
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 12 Mar 2019, 2:31 pm

trekin wrote:(2) In this section—
applies force includes the case of applying heat, light, electrical force, gas, odour, or any other substance or thing whatever if applied in such a degree as to cause injury or personal discomfort.


So according to the letter of the law, a ripe fart is an act of criminal assault? :wtf:
If that's the case I've been both the victim and the perpetrator.
What a bloody Nanny State world we live in. :crazy:
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by No1Mk3 » 12 Mar 2019, 2:56 pm

G'day JSS,
Does that upgraded "take a full mag at point blank" include Daddybangs 4 year old? How far can a good engineer or DIY bloke upgrade a blaster? To paintball levels? I think your coppers have this concern and this is why they are looking at the issue, hopefully for your sakes (too late down here) all it means will be either an fps limit or at worse no upgrades permitted,Cheers.
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by JSS » 12 Mar 2019, 4:22 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day JSS,
Does that upgraded "take a full mag at point blank" include Daddybangs 4 year old? How far can a good engineer or DIY bloke upgrade a blaster? To paintball levels? I think your coppers have this concern and this is why they are looking at the issue, hopefully for your sakes (too late down here) all it means will be either an fps limit or at worse no upgrades permitted,Cheers.


I think Daddybang would have something to say about that :lol:
The big thing that makes them so harmless is the actual gel balls, if you drop one on the bench/floor you can't even pick it up, it just turns to mush in your fingers, they really are soft as s**t.
As far as upgrading them, i think you can only go so far until the balls just disintegrate in the barrel, our 2 that are upgraded already turn a percentage of balls into mist on firing, where as the 2 that aren't upgraded don't. Based on this my opinion is that the balls would fail well before you could get even close to enough velocity to penetrate skin with something so soft.
Even just throwing on a loose paper thin bcf type fishing shirt on over a t-shirt reduces the impact at say 5-10 meters from from a sting to the point of hardly felling them. No matter how much velocity you give them they just have no penetrating power.
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Daddybang » 12 Mar 2019, 5:13 pm

Only if my girl spawn can shoot back fellas!!!! :lol: :drinks:
I think no1 is probably correct in that they will limit the modifications to a certain fps and I'd bet they'll probably ban the "hardened" gels. They may also regulate where they can be used eg out of public sight and maybe impose an age requirement. It will be interesting to see where it goes :unknown: :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Die Judicii » 12 Mar 2019, 5:51 pm

trekin wrote:And if QPS/WLB/Ballistics Dept can show that gelbasters can cause bodily harm (very loose definition of BH under the Criminal Code), then I'm sure they'll push for classification.


So,,,, what if some one accidentally got hit in the eye,,,, would these things do damage ? (I know nothing about them xcept seeing the stalls in Supermarkets)

But seriously, where will "control" and "regulation" end ???

As a student in primary school there was a case where one student had a pocket full of nails, and started throwing them at others.
A girl was hit in the eye, and lost the sight of her eye as a result.

Although tragic (obviously burnt into my memory) school policies were seriously looked at, student behavior was tightened, punishment to the kid that threw the nail was handed out,,,,,, but they didn't shut down the wood working classes, ban nails, or make life in general difficult for all the innocent kids (future LAFO's)

But then again,,,,,,,,, Common Sense was alive and well back then. :thumbsup:
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by trekin » 13 Mar 2019, 10:19 am

- Weapons Licensing are working with Ballistics in relation to FPS / KJ impact of gel balls. They reiterated a few times that if you upgrade your blaster, you are upgrading your toy – while upgrading of toys is not policed, they are in talks with Ballistics. [There will likely be more direction on FPS/KJ limits in the future – DT].
Some of the better one are pushing 300+ fps out of the box, and 400+ fps with basic upgrades. If QPS/WLB don't push for Cat A or Cat M, than I bet the left one that they push for them to be placed in the restricted weapons list. No you don't need a licence or regrister them, if on that list, but you will need a genuine reason to possess, and reading some of the comments on those FB pages it appears that this would not be challanged (sort of like SSAA QLD not challanging the NFA back in '96). Even seeing comments along the lines of "nobody needs upgrades, if you can't play Milsims etc with standard out of the box, than you shouldn't be playing."
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Mar 2019, 1:58 pm

What is going to happen if/when someone uses a replica one in a robbery - is it armed robbery if it’s classed as a toy?

They are banned outright in tassie and if 400fps (my 70lb compound shoots at 320fps for comparison) is possible then maybe at least an age limit should be considered - similar to those industrial grade, 3 banded Shanghai’s that look like they can take down a tank lol
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Daddybang » 13 Mar 2019, 2:23 pm

I don't have a chrony but if my gen 8 Wells m4 (top of the line) are doin much more than around 200fps mv (unmodded) I'd be very surprised as they are easily tracked with the naked eye. As I said above my four year old doesn't even flinch when hit at 15m so I doubt that the coppers will be able to prove they are capable of doing any sort of injury.
We'll just have to see where it all goes. :unknown: :drinks:
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by fishburgr » 13 Mar 2019, 7:58 pm

I wouldn't put anything past them. I can't remember if it was on this site or not, but last night I saw a video regarding Qld Airsoft and one bloke was testifying in court that some airsoft weapons were capable of inflicting "fatal wounds" to a human.
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Re: Is Qld about to Classify gelbasters as firearms?

Post by Daddybang » 13 Mar 2019, 8:13 pm

According to the news on seven I just caught the end of the police are gonna start going to the venues where gel ball events are being held to educate people on the "correct" places to use them. It was a fairly good story showing kids and adults playing and pressed the point several times that they are toys. Gelballing seems to be growing in popularity at a huge rate. :thumbsup: :drinks:
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