Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by Strangedog » 05 Jul 2019, 6:06 pm

Back in the day Police would turn a blind eye to a lot of things and even dish out a bit of punishment themselves. That day was better.
Strangedog
Private
Private
 
Posts: 58
New South Wales

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 05 Jul 2019, 7:19 pm

Damn tassie. Rephrasing what someone else said......if you wanna do something do it right
Sergeant Hartman
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1722
Victoria

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by Farmerpete » 06 Jul 2019, 5:40 pm

Im not signing it based on the fact its a change.org petition. change.org may as well be an opinion poll on today or sunrise for all the attention that politicians will pay. If the owner of the petition was serious about making a change it would have been either a state or federal e-petition not a petition on a site thats going to spam your inbox with $h1t after you sign
Farmerpete
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 292
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by bigrich » 06 Jul 2019, 6:51 pm

Farmerpete wrote:Im not signing it based on the fact its a change.org petition. change.org may as well be an opinion poll on today or sunrise for all the attention that politicians will pay. If the owner of the petition was serious about making a change it would have been either a state or federal e-petition not a petition on a site thats going to spam your inbox with $h1t after you sign


that's a very valid point........ :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by flutch » 08 Jul 2019, 10:06 pm

bigrich wrote: But the Russians revolution started as just a idea.....


are you suggesting the Bolshevik revolution was a good thing?
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
flutch
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 447
Western Australia

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by bigrich » 09 Jul 2019, 5:30 am

flutch wrote:
bigrich wrote: But the Russians revolution started as just a idea.....


are you suggesting the Bolshevik revolution was a good thing?


Not at all . The point was sometimes “just a idea “ can grow and turn into something much bigger. A better example would be the American revolution. Or the French Revolution depending on your views off history. Modern society is full of apathy and everyone seems to be side tracked by a increasing more complex society and social media . JMHO
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4483
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 09 Jul 2019, 7:56 am

For Taz, at 1630 yesterday, the pub that one of my daughters is a manager at was held up at gun point (replica hundgun) by four men. Her bar staff recognised the gun as a replica, and took these scum to task and touched two of them up pretty good before they were able to get away. Unfortunatly, a sixty yo regular who stepped up to help, was beaten so badly he is not expected to survive. The local coppers ran three of the scum down within the hour, and they started bleating on about sueing the pub and staff for their injuries, and that it was in self defence that the old bloke got bashed. Coppers told them, in no uncertain terms, that, that crap doesn't wash up here, and that they had lost their right to that defence the moment they entered the premises with intent.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Jul 2019, 7:57 am

Farmerpete wrote:Im not signing it based on the fact its a change.org petition. change.org may as well be an opinion poll on today or sunrise for all the attention that politicians will pay. If the owner of the petition was serious about making a change it would have been either a state or federal e-petition not a petition on a site thats going to spam your inbox with $h1t after you sign


Agreed as well - but please let me know where your petition might be so I can sign yours?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Jul 2019, 8:00 am

Farmerpete wrote:Im not signing it based on the fact its a change.org petition. change.org may as well be an opinion poll on today or sunrise for all the attention that politicians will pay. If the owner of the petition was serious about making a change it would have been either a state or federal e-petition not a petition on a site thats going to spam your inbox with $h1t after you sign


Agreed as well - but please let me know where your petition might be so I can sign yours?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by straightshooter » 09 Jul 2019, 8:40 am

trekin wrote:For Taz, at 1630 yesterday, the pub that one of my daughters is a manager at was held up at gun point (replica hundgun) by four men. Her bar staff recognised the gun as a replica, and took these scum to task and touched two of them up pretty good before they were able to get away. Unfortunatly, a sixty yo regular who stepped up to help, was beaten so badly he is not expected to survive. The local coppers ran three of the scum down within the hour, and they started bleating on about sueing the pub and staff for their injuries, and that it was in self defence that the old bloke got bashed. Coppers told them, in no uncertain terms, that, that crap doesn't wash up here, and that they had lost their right to that defence the moment they entered the premises with intent.


Can you see how sloppy use of language sometimes is the cause of a lot of problems for victims.
Wouldn't it have been better to say - when confronted, they were compelled to defend themselves for fear for their lives
In circumstances such as this, when speaking to Police, trying to 'big note' oneself even in a subtle way is only a recipe for a lot of problems.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 09 Jul 2019, 8:55 am

straightshooter wrote:
trekin wrote:For Taz, at 1630 yesterday, the pub that one of my daughters is a manager at was held up at gun point (replica hundgun) by four men. Her bar staff recognised the gun as a replica, and took these scum to task and touched two of them up pretty good before they were able to get away. Unfortunatly, a sixty yo regular who stepped up to help, was beaten so badly he is not expected to survive. The local coppers ran three of the scum down within the hour, and they started bleating on about sueing the pub and staff for their injuries, and that it was in self defence that the old bloke got bashed. Coppers told them, in no uncertain terms, that, that crap doesn't wash up here, and that they had lost their right to that defence the moment they entered the premises with intent.


Can you see how sloppy use of language sometimes is the cause of a lot of problems for victims.
Wouldn't it have been better to say - when confronted, they were compelled to defend themselves for fear for their lives
In circumstances such as this, when speaking to Police, trying to 'big note' oneself even in a subtle way is only a recipe for a lot of problems.

No mate, I don't, as those are my words, and my words only. The staff at this pub are pretty well versed at how to word a report to the police, as this is the fourth time this year alone that they have had an armed robbery happen there.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Jul 2019, 9:07 am

trekin wrote:For Taz, at 1630 yesterday, the pub that one of my daughters is a manager at was held up at gun point (replica hundgun) by four men. Her bar staff recognised the gun as a replica, and took these scum to task and touched two of them up pretty good before they were able to get away. Unfortunatly, a sixty yo regular who stepped up to help, was beaten so badly he is not expected to survive. The local coppers ran three of the scum down within the hour, and they started bleating on about sueing the pub and staff for their injuries, and that it was in self defence that the old bloke got bashed. Coppers told them, in no uncertain terms, that, that crap doesn't wash up here, and that they had lost their right to that defence the moment they entered the premises with intent.


The fact these pricks even had the gall to bring it up shows where society’s head is at...
Food on the coppers - but if the wankers get a smart arse lawyer....?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 06 May 2020, 9:27 am

TassieTiger wrote:Your missing the point a little - I 100% guarantee, regardless of QLD laws vs other states laws, that one could quite easily find an insane court decision pertaining to someone who "believed" they were using self defense to protect themselves and then ended up getting F'd over it in one way or another - or very similar.
I recall from a few years back now and the "exact" facts I cant recall, but it went along the lines of - a kid broke into the Gympie hotel - got caught and was ejected. That same kid then attempted to climb the hotels roof in an attempt to gain entry and when the publican saw said kid, hurled abuse / something at the kid and he fell and broke a leg - and sued the publican. I was living in QLD at the time and recall the uproar...it's these situations Id like to see taken from "grey" and "debatable" to "clear cut" - no case to answer.

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but, now that we can up load PDF files, I think you'll find some interesting reading here. As I said earlier, self defence and defence of dwelling are seperate areas of law, which very few people know or understand.
QCA09-375.pdf
(91.47 KiB) Downloaded 251 times

QCA13-361(1).pdf
(169.41 KiB) Downloaded 335 times

QCA13-339.pdf
(144.03 KiB) Downloaded 260 times
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by TassieTiger » 06 May 2020, 9:50 am

Re the first one - cusKelly was successful in obtainING a retrial but then got 9 years for manslaughter...
so - A drunken man attacked him in his home, heard by numerous witnesses (including an ambo) that his intent was to cut the throat of cusKelly who defended himself and he gets 9 years.
If this doesn’t scare the crap out of you...what does.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by Ziege » 06 May 2020, 10:18 am

Signed and had over 40 others do the same just now. Bout time criminals and the likes lost their ability to intimidate the public and peaceful
Ziege
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 964
Western Australia

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 06 May 2020, 11:18 am

TassieTiger wrote:Re the first one - cusKelly was successful in obtainING a retrial but then got 9 years for manslaughter...
so - A drunken man attacked him in his home, heard by numerous witnesses (including an ambo) that his intent was to cut the throat of cusKelly who defended himself and he gets 9 years.
If this doesn’t scare the crap out of you...what does.

If you actually followed the case, the murder conviction was over turned due to the princple of law of defending his dwelling (a defence not offered to him by his lawyer, and not considered by the judge) overrides self defence in this situation, and not for the reasons that he based his appeal on. He was subsequently charged and convicted of manslaughter on the evidence that his blood alcohol level wasl above the level that is medicaly and legally considered for being able to reasonably believe anything. However, the outcome for the appellant is here nor there, the fact that that QLD Supeme Court upheld the princple of Castle Doctrine (Section 267 of the QLD Criminal Code) is the important takeout froms this.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by SAnewb85 » 12 May 2020, 7:14 am

As long as you use a level of force that is equivalent +1 (basically you can only use just enough force to gain control of the situation) and you can argue that you had a "reasonable" fear of the intruder/person committing the assault/crime you shouldn't have an issue.

I think the grey area in Oz is found in whether you had the opportunity to hide or take cover instead of confronting the assailant.

That's my understanding at this point but I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong.
SAnewb85
Private
Private
 
Posts: 62
South Australia

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by TassieTiger » 12 May 2020, 12:38 pm

^ Mate - that’s what I thought as well but reading the actual court docs above...yeah, better to just lay down and spend a few months in hospital. Apparently...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 12 May 2020, 2:14 pm

TassieTiger wrote:^ Mate - that’s what I thought as well but reading the actual court docs above...yeah, better to just lay down and spend a few months in hospital. Apparently...

Where, exactly in the court docs I posted, does it say it is better to just lay down and spend a few months in hospital. ??
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 12 May 2020, 2:55 pm

SAnewb85 wrote:As long as you use a level of force that is equivalent +1 (basically you can only use just enough force to gain control of the situation) and you can argue that you had a "reasonable" fear of the intruder/person committing the assault/crime you shouldn't have an issue.

I think the grey area in Oz is found in whether you had the opportunity to hide or take cover instead of confronting the assailant.

That's my understanding at this point but I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong.

That is correct for self defence, even up here in QLD. However, a Castle Doctrine does not require the same level of justification, by the defendant, for some actions, such as "you can only use just enough force to gain control of the situation" and "whether you had the opportunity to hide or take cover instead of confronting the assailant."
For example, Section 267 of the QLD Criminal Code states that:
Defence of dwelling
It is lawful for a person who is in peaceable possession of a
dwelling, and any person lawfully assisting him or her or
acting by his or her authority, to use force to prevent or repel
another person from unlawfully entering or remaining in the
dwelling,
if the person using the force believes on reasonable
grounds—
(a) the other person is attempting to enter or to remain in
the dwelling with intent to commit an indictable offence
in the dwelling; and
(b) it is necessary to use that force.

As opposed to Section 271, which states:
Self-defence against unprovoked assault
(1) When a person is unlawfully assaulted, and has not provoked
the assault, it is lawful for the person to use such force to the
assailant as is reasonably necessary to make effectual defence
against the assault
, if the force used is not intended, and is not
such as is likely, to cause death or grievous bodily harm.
(2) If the nature of the assault is such as to cause reasonable
apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm, and the person
using force by way of defence believes, on reasonable
grounds, that the person can not otherwise preserve the person
defended from death or grievous bodily harm, it is lawful for
the person to use any such force to the assailant as is
necessary for defence, even though such force may cause
death or grievous bodily harm.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by AussieCapitalist » 12 May 2020, 8:01 pm

There is a reason Americans use the term "god given rights" because it means they are given to everybody and can not be changed by a government, not now or not ever. Self defence by all available means in ones home is a basic human right and must be granted to everybody.
AussieCapitalist
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 525
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by TassieTiger » 12 May 2020, 9:08 pm

trekin wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:^ Mate - that’s what I thought as well but reading the actual court docs above...yeah, better to just lay down and spend a few months in hospital. Apparently...

Where, exactly in the court docs I posted, does it say it is better to just lay down and spend a few months in hospital. ??


Clearly sarcasm is lost in translation - thought it was mental enough that you’d get it...so you really believe a court doc round say that?
But - the Point being - cusKelly in court link 1, was at home drinking with his partner and was attacked with what may have been lethal intent - in fact an off duty neighbour (ambo) recited that the deceased was going to cut a throat or kill him or words to that effect. CusKelly attempts to sway intruder but is unsuccessful - cusKelly grabs a knife hoping that would definitely sway the intruder, but a scuffle breaks out - intruder wears the knife - once, in the chest....ultimately, cusKelly does 9 years for manslaughter. Had he laid down and copped the beating ? A few months in hospital...thus the alignment I was trying to make.
Regardless of the laws intent - there’s arguable criteria from any angle and the fact remains that it’s open to interpretation and therefore exploitation.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by Ziege » 12 May 2020, 10:48 pm

There is not one single excuse for the current state of the laws in place. You have one life, no one can give it back if taken, you have one body, no one can give you another one if it is damaged.

What f***ing nerve do people have to tell anyone that they can't do whatever it takes at any length to protect that one life and one body, if I fear for my life, Goto the closet and open the safe and defend my life and body against intruders one or many, I shouldn't have to face any kind of legal repercussions.

In the current state of affairs I would be hauled off for a myriad of crimes, crimes that should never be crimes... Defending your own. Life is one of the few things that is imperative to define one as being free, the fact we can't is definitive proof that we are considered livestock in this country
Ziege
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 964
Western Australia

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 13 May 2020, 5:36 am

TassieTiger wrote:
trekin wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:^ Mate - that’s what I thought as well but reading the actual court docs above...yeah, better to just lay down and spend a few months in hospital. Apparently...

Where, exactly in the court docs I posted, does it say it is better to just lay down and spend a few months in hospital. ??


Clearly sarcasm is lost in translation - thought it was mental enough that you’d get it...so you really believe a court doc round say that?
But - the Point being - cusKelly in court link 1, was at home drinking with his partner and was attacked with what may have been lethal intent - in fact an off duty neighbour (ambo) recited that the deceased was going to cut a throat or kill him or words to that effect. CusKelly attempts to sway intruder but is unsuccessful - cusKelly grabs a knife hoping that would definitely sway the intruder, but a scuffle breaks out - intruder wears the knife - once, in the chest....ultimately, cusKelly does 9 years for manslaughter. Had he laid down and copped the beating ? A few months in hospital...thus the alignment I was trying to make.
Regardless of the laws intent - there’s arguable criteria from any angle and the fact remains that it’s open to interpretation and therefore exploitation.

So, where does it say in that doc, that he is convicted of manslaughter? Where does it say anything other than, on the evidence before the court of appeals, that Section 267 (Defence of Dwelling) afforded him protection from prosecution, and that to deny that defence, for the reasons given by the trial judge, was a miscarriage of justice, and that the pior conviction of murder be set aside (overturned) and that the case be retried allowing Defence of Dwelling as a defence.
Yes, ultimately, he was convicted of manslaughter at retrial in the lower court, but only on evidence that the prosecution had withheld from the first trial, and therefore from the court of appeal.
A Castle Doctrine is defined as such; "A castle doctrine, also known as a castle law or a defense of habitation law, is a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode or any legally occupied place (for example, a vehicle or home) as a place in which that person has protections and immunities permitting one, in certain circumstances, to use force (up to and including deadly force) to defend oneself against an intruder, free from legal prosecution for the consequences of the force used." You still have to justify those "certain circumstances", unfortunatly, cusKelly, was deemed to have not by a jurry of his peers.
As I said before, irrespective of the outcome for the appellant, the fact that that QLD Supeme Court upheld the princple of Castle Doctrine (Section 267 of the QLD Criminal Code) is the important takeout froms this.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by TassieTiger » 13 May 2020, 7:05 am

Well, It says it here (not in court doc, but aligned story) -
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cou ... 49ecec1f10

Regardless of How, or what level of what parameters were reached or which court found him guilty of what - the outright fact remains he did 9 years for trying to “defend his castle”. That is ultimately what it boils down to - in the big picture, who gives a crap if the court upheld the doctrine to reduce the charge ? Do you think cuskelly celebrated “only” getting 9 years lol? The outcome is the outcome for the defendant. The outcome that most people would be aspiring too, in a case such as this (with CL introduced), would be for NO sentence to occur at all...what is the point of having a castle law, if you can still do 9 years for apparent adherence to that law - but get almost a decade via an associated charge? Somewhere in the story it says that cuskelly was drinking and that was a deciding factor in the case, because he was xxx the driving limit - well what the heck ? if the now deceased hadn’t attacked him, in his home/castle, it wouldn’t have mattered would it?

I’ll bet My left one, it is not what the community, in large, is seeking.

“As I said before, irrespective of the outcome for the appellant, the fact that that QLD Supeme Court upheld the princple of Castle Doctrine (Section 267 of the QLD Criminal Code) is the important takeout froms this.”

Are you actually saying you agree with this outcome ?
“Irrespective of the outcome for the appellant?”? Errr what ? The important take out from this, is not to be dismissive of a miscarriage of justice...surely.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 May 2020, 7:52 am

This thread is going on in two different circles.. funny

From this i take drinking to stuper is not good... even at home
Sergeant Hartman
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1722
Victoria

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 13 May 2020, 7:58 am

TassieTiger wrote:Well, It says it here (not in court doc, but aligned story) -
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cou ... 49ecec1f10

Regardless of How, or what level of what parameters were reached or which court found him guilty of what - the outright fact remains he did 9 years for trying to “defend his castle”. That is ultimately what it boils down to - in the big picture, who gives a crap if the court upheld the doctrine to reduce the charge ? Do you think cuskelly celebrated “only” getting 9 years lol? The outcome is the outcome for the defendant. The outcome that most people would be aspiring too, in a case such as this (with CL introduced), would be for NO sentence to occur at all...what is the point of having a castle law, if you can still do 9 years for apparent adherence to that law - but get almost a decade via an associated charge? Somewhere in the story it says that cuskelly was drinking and that was a deciding factor in the case, because he was xxx the driving limit - well what the heck ? if the now deceased hadn’t attacked him, in his home/castle, it wouldn’t have mattered would it?

I’ll bet My left one, it is not what the community, in large, is seeking.

“As I said before, irrespective of the outcome for the appellant, the fact that that QLD Supeme Court upheld the princple of Castle Doctrine (Section 267 of the QLD Criminal Code) is the important takeout froms this.”

Are you actually saying you agree with this outcome ?
“Irrespective of the outcome for the appellant?”? Errr what ? The important take out from this, is not to be dismissive of a miscarriage of justice...surely.

So, you're saying that you, and the community in large, want the right to be judge, jury and executioner, to dish out whatever punishment to a intruder in your home you see fit to, with no checks and balances, and not requiring to give any justifications for your actions at all?
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by trekin » 13 May 2020, 8:07 am

Sergeant Hartman wrote:This thread is going on in two different circles.. funny

From this i take drinking to stuper is not good... even at home

And yet, we as a society want the whole book thrown at the drunk driver who wipes out an entire family with their car.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
"legally obligated to be a victim in this country"
I earned every grey hair I have.
User avatar
trekin
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 803
Queensland

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by Ziege » 13 May 2020, 8:11 am

[quote="trekin"[/quote]
So, you're saying that you, and the community in large, want the right to be judge, jury and executioner, to dish out whatever punishment to a intruder in your home you see fit to, with no checks and balances, and not requiring to give any justifications for your actions at all?[/quote]

Way I see it, it's pretty simple. If said person doesn't want a lead lobotomy or pry bar to the face or a lung full of carbon steel they should think long and hard about whether or not their choices are adequate for their wants in life. If someone doesn't want to die they should invade someone else's home. No one would die unecessesarily if no one invade the home of another person, why should someone entering someone's home uninvited with criminal intent have any rights in that situation? It's really not hard to not break into peoples homes. It's not something they do by accident
Ziege
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 964
Western Australia

Re: Petition to Bring castle law to Australia

Post by straightshooter » 13 May 2020, 8:14 am

I haven't read all the posted comments but I think you would have to be a special species of stupid to sign this petition.
On the one hand, consider exactly what latent fantasy you might be revealing on the permanent public record.
What happens if it should come to pass that circumstances cause you to in some way carry out your stated latent desire and how will that then be viewed by a prosecution.
On the other hand the modern political class is promoting an absolute monopoly of force in the hands of the government, so does a proposal along the lines of this petition have even a snowflakes chance in hell of ever receiving any consideration whatsoever.
There is as much chance of success of petitioning the government to bring back 5 quid ($10) 303's and all you can eat ammunition.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

PreviousNext

Back to top
 
Return to Firearms related media and politics