US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by mickb » 03 Jul 2019, 11:28 pm

I notice when the subject of gunlaws come up on Aus/nz forums on the big international forums, it becomes a bit of a pising ground for americans telling us we all roll over too easily, and how if it happened to them they wouldnt stand for it. With the NZ situation, its all on again.

I agree the US is far superior in resisting gun laws They have the consitution but more importantly financial muscle and numbers to tell anti's, left wing orgs and international groups like the UN to go to hell.

But one thing the US guys dont like to mention. Their 50 states and 3000 counties have thousands of different gun restrictions that they didn't stop. Including the gun control acts of 1934 and 1938 requiring tax stamps( federal permission) to buy machine guns, silencers and short barrel rifles.etc. Not to mention they just added another 210 changes just after the sandy hook shootings. Unless I am severely mistaken, there wasn't much in the way of physical resistance to any of it .Folks in the US largely comply like the rest of us.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 04 Jul 2019, 4:24 am

People are sheep. Whether it be European nations with full bellies or third world's holes with empty bellies.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by wrenchman » 04 Jul 2019, 5:47 am

i do not think it is fair to compare us to aus / nz our citys with the gun crimes have greater populations then aus/ nz and its gang crime and i no they like to tell you that assault guns are the problem but they are less then 1% of any gun crime they just put those on the news.
i dont think it is also fair for me to say a bad thing about aus or nz shooters the us realy does have a gun culture i can go right now to a hand gun range and i will see almost as many woman as men the ladys are some of the best shooters and they train hard.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by xDom » 04 Jul 2019, 6:50 am

I think there’s a lot of BS spouted by the American media and civilians about the Oz gun laws.
A high profile US talk show host, Tucker Carlson made a comment on how Australians have no freedom and how Australian citizens can be locked up for having unpopular opinions.


“...But they have no freedom, you can go to prison for expressing unpopular views in Australia and people do," Carlson argued, without citing any examples.”


There seems to be an opinion in the US that Australians can’t get guns full stop. It fits into their narrative that any restrictions at all will lead to total confiscation and complete tyranny.
As much as I enjoy firearms, I don’t think their system is the way to do things.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by JSS » 04 Jul 2019, 7:48 am

It's easy for them to sit there with their "blah blah constitution blah blah" But if their constitution was amended allowing their laws to change (which would then be a similar situation as our laws here or NZ changing) after some protesting and whinging the vast majority would comply and hand their guns in.

Don't forget another thing the US has as well as guns is a very severe legal/penal system that incarcerates more of it's citizens per capita than any other country so they can feed the massive and very profitable private prison system. You threaten those suckers with jail time and they will hand their stuff over quick smart.

Of course not everyone will comply, just like not everyone will comply in NZ, and just like not everyone complied here.
It's easy to talk tough when it's all hypothetical and you don't need to back it up.
Just my opinion :D
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by bigrich » 04 Jul 2019, 8:05 am

Your on the money JSS
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Post by sungazer » 04 Jul 2019, 9:57 am

Wrenchman dont take this as an attack. However I do find it a little funny watching shows like Wardens and some others. There are so many rules and restrictions that are enforced with some pretty heavy handed attitudes and penalties. I am sure it has to be this way again because of the size of the population as if you start letting it slide it could be an ecological disaster if everyone could take as many deer as they wanted for example. We do have some similar rules like minimum calibre of a 270 for a Sambar deer but we dont have officers going around checking and extracting bullets from animals for forensic purposes.

We are starting to see some issues with Lead this is all about ranges and shotguns ATM it may progress we will have to wait and see.

Even in the US there are some places that have very strict gun laws to the point of places like New York where it is a total ban?

In general I think we are actually more free in Aus but things are changing with government owned land so again it will be not so interesting to see what happens. I certainly feel free-er here than when I lived in the US
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by RoginaJack » 04 Jul 2019, 11:59 am

Sorry Sungazer but we do have the "SCI" thing going in Australia. See attached -

http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/lates ... r-poachers
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by Member-Deleted » 04 Jul 2019, 12:07 pm

I don't think some US citizens are as free as they think and to completely disarm the US would be impossible it would end up like Australia the crims would not hand theirs in just imagine the imbalance of that with their population they always talk that they have the '' 2nd amendment'' but I think the government use that as a way out of trying to enforce an impossible job of disarming the people the gov also use the gun debate to get votes by saying they are going to try and regulate guns but in the end it's all talk maybe some have put in a little more effort like Obama but in the end they full well know it would start major issues with the voters and eventually its all smoke and no fire also lots of
Americans us guns for protection among other things and the powers know this so the freedom as they call it is totally different to ours you can't compare the two they're totally different worlds
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by sungazer » 04 Jul 2019, 12:13 pm

@RoginaJack yes I had read that article just a few days ago. I know what it says but I really doubt the part about bullet removal. Picking up any spent cases I would believe. Having a witness and the Rego I bet the cops just added this bit in to get a confession out of the guy.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by marksman » 04 Jul 2019, 2:48 pm

having relatives who live in America has given me a bit of an idea on what they believe in America
it was not that long ago that they could not buy 22 rimfire ammo at the local gun store, lots of trouble with getting handgun ammo as well
if you wanted ammo you got it couriered to you or waited in line at the gun store parking lot when the ammo arrived and it was sold off the back of the truck, it never made it into the store
people were grabbing whatever ammo they could even if they didn't own that caliber rifle or handgun
gun stores had reloading machines in the back pumping out ammo as fast as they could and it sold as quick
what I remember being told was that the people feared what Obuma was going to do with gun laws so the people were stocking up
they were not ever going to just hand in there guns like we did
if you honestly think the US has not already taken guns off the citizens you are kidding yourself :crazy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQNBre0uMew

there were American police who refused to steal guns by force :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLaKsbM0x3g

the Americans are right about us and I hope the New Zealanders do better than we did :drinks:


from abc world news
"It's remarkable how many - who should know better - still don't believe this type thing can, or indeed, did happen in America. "Oh they'd never do that..." they innocently wail. Oh really? Watch and learn. All of a sudden the lines are totally blurred and the supposed "good guys" are treating you like a common criminal. And then some wonder..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by Patriot » 04 Jul 2019, 4:49 pm

xDom wrote:I think there’s a lot of BS spouted by the American media and civilians about the Oz gun laws.
A high profile US talk show host, Tucker Carlson made a comment on how Australians have no freedom and how Australian citizens can be locked up for having unpopular opinions.


“...But they have no freedom, you can go to prison for expressing unpopular views in Australia and people do," Carlson argued, without citing any examples.”


There seems to be an opinion in the US that Australians can’t get guns full stop. It fits into their narrative that any restrictions at all will lead to total confiscation and complete tyranny.
As much as I enjoy firearms, I don’t think their system is the way to do things.


Once governments start regulating and restricting citizens rights in regards to private ownership of firearms, total confiscation is only a matter of time.

America was born out of rebellion, against a tyrannical British king who wanted to, among other things, confiscate the American Patriots firearms. Americans have always known that tyranny starts with disarming the citizenry, that’s why if pushed, a good many will die to defend their unalienable right, their second amendment right, to keep and bear arms.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by xDom » 04 Jul 2019, 6:38 pm

Patriot wrote:
xDom wrote:I think there’s a lot of BS spouted by the American media and civilians about the Oz gun laws.
A high profile US talk show host, Tucker Carlson made a comment on how Australians have no freedom and how Australian citizens can be locked up for having unpopular opinions.


“...But they have no freedom, you can go to prison for expressing unpopular views in Australia and people do," Carlson argued, without citing any examples.”


There seems to be an opinion in the US that Australians can’t get guns full stop. It fits into their narrative that any restrictions at all will lead to total confiscation and complete tyranny.
As much as I enjoy firearms, I don’t think their system is the way to do things.


Once governments start regulating and restricting citizens rights in regards to private ownership of firearms, total confiscation is only a matter of time.

America was born out of rebellion, against a tyrannical British king who wanted to, among other things, confiscate the American Patriots firearms. Americans have always known that tyranny starts with disarming the citizenry, that’s why if pushed, a good many will die to defend their unalienable right, their second amendment right, to keep and bear arms.



Are you American?
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by Patriot » 04 Jul 2019, 7:05 pm

xDom wrote:
Patriot wrote:
xDom wrote:I think there’s a lot of BS spouted by the American media and civilians about the Oz gun laws.
A high profile US talk show host, Tucker Carlson made a comment on how Australians have no freedom and how Australian citizens can be locked up for having unpopular opinions.


“...But they have no freedom, you can go to prison for expressing unpopular views in Australia and people do," Carlson argued, without citing any examples.”


There seems to be an opinion in the US that Australians can’t get guns full stop. It fits into their narrative that any restrictions at all will lead to total confiscation and complete tyranny.
As much as I enjoy firearms, I don’t think their system is the way to do things.


Once governments start regulating and restricting citizens rights in regards to private ownership of firearms, total confiscation is only a matter of time.

America was born out of rebellion, against a tyrannical British king who wanted to, among other things, confiscate the American Patriots firearms. Americans have always known that tyranny starts with disarming the citizenry, that’s why if pushed, a good many will die to defend their unalienable right, their second amendment right, to keep and bear arms.



Are you American?


Nah mate

My mob came out here in the 1840’s
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Post by sungazer » 04 Jul 2019, 7:14 pm

Those videos of the cops entering peoples houses and confiscating guns after Katrina really makes a mockery of the 2nd amendment.
The way that they handled that old lady was criminal. The over use of force and intimidation disgraceful. What are you going to do when 6 big Soldiers or cops roll up with M16s shouldered and pointing at you in the face.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by mickb » 04 Jul 2019, 7:15 pm

Patriot wrote:
Once governments start regulating and restricting citizens rights in regards to private ownership of firearms, total confiscation is only a matter of time.

America was born out of rebellion, against a tyrannical British king who wanted to, among other things, confiscate the American Patriots firearms. Americans have always known that tyranny starts with disarming the citizenry, that’s why if pushed, a good many will die to defend their unalienable right, their second amendment right, to keep and bear arms.


patriot -nice speech but where is the evidence they will do this?

As I said and I say it on many forums, the US has had about 20,000 pieces of gun legislation brought in. They were 'pushed' hard with gun laws changes in the 30's.......more in the 60's, more in the 90's and more after sandy hook. And no one died or defended anything, ever. They rolled over and took it in the ass, every time. Every time they apply for a tax stamp for silencer they roll over.

Everyone talks about the 'big future disarmament scenario' . It probably will never go down this way. The will be happy to let citizens keep and bear arms as long as they can control the type, calibre, number, ammunition, storage and approvals for them ;) The US guys blowharding about resisting this scenario are basically saying as long as the government only takes small bites at a time, they will be too lazy to act ;)

And their government does just that.
Last edited by mickb on 04 Jul 2019, 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by Patriot » 04 Jul 2019, 7:24 pm

mickb wrote:
Patriot wrote:
Once governments start regulating and restricting citizens rights in regards to private ownership of firearms, total confiscation is only a matter of time.

America was born out of rebellion, against a tyrannical British king who wanted to, among other things, confiscate the American Patriots firearms. Americans have always known that tyranny starts with disarming the citizenry, that’s why if pushed, a good many will die to defend their unalienable right, their second amendment right, to keep and bear arms.


patriot -nice speech but where is the evidence they will do this?

As I said and I say it on many forums, the US has had about 20,000 pieces of gun legislation brought in. They were 'pushed' hard with gun laws changes in the 30's.......more in the 60's, more in the 90's and more after sandy hook. And no one died or defended anything, ever. They rolled over and took it in the ass, every time. Every time they apply for a tax stamp for silencer they roll over.

Folks in the US talk about this 'big future disarmament scenario' and how brave and active they would be if it happened. This is an excuse syndrome. Its basically saying as long as the government only takes small bites at a time, they wont act ;)

And their government does just that.


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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by RoginaJack » 04 Jul 2019, 9:18 pm

Hey Sungazer, I wonder what was the cost for that little CSI testing?
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Post by TassieTiger » 04 Jul 2019, 9:18 pm

I recently watched an online auction of firearms in the US thinking - this will be cool, see what the firearms we wish we could buy - actively sell for...
Well an old 9mm Uzzi - second hand, 2 spare clips and shoulder strap sold for...

Ready?

$15,000 US...

M16? Yep $11,000 US...

To my knowledge - These are not historical or rare firearms...
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Post by Strangedog » 04 Jul 2019, 10:06 pm

Well said Patriot. America has a long history with guns, I think it will always be that way.
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Post by wanneroo » 05 Jul 2019, 12:27 am

mickb wrote:I notice when the subject of gunlaws come up on Aus/nz forums on the big international forums, it becomes a bit of a pising ground for americans telling us we all roll over too easily, and how if it happened to them they wouldnt stand for it. With the NZ situation, its all on again.

I agree the US is far superior in resisting gun laws They have the consitution but more importantly financial muscle and numbers to tell anti's, left wing orgs and international groups like the UN to go to hell.

But one thing the US guys dont like to mention. Their 50 states and 3000 counties have thousands of different gun restrictions that they didn't stop. Including the gun control acts of 1934 and 1938 requiring tax stamps( federal permission) to buy machine guns, silencers and short barrel rifles.etc. Not to mention they just added another 210 changes just after the sandy hook shootings. Unless I am severely mistaken, there wasn't much in the way of physical resistance to any of it .Folks in the US largely comply like the rest of us.


Actually folks in the USA don't largely comply at all to many of the recent state gun laws in places like New York and Connecticut. It's estimated only a few percent of people that were supposed to register their "assault rifles" did so.

You actually named it without realizing it. We've got 50 different states here and the population of Australia could fit in the whole Los Angeles metro area. There are always some comparisons that are never going to work.

I think the difference between here and down under is we split by force from the UK while Aus/NZ did not, hence our governmental systems are different and it's much easier to railroad people in a parliamentary system with few checks and balances.

Also in the end with 1996-1998, did Australians really comply completely with the new laws? It's estimated perhaps 2/3rds of the firearms that should have been turned in did not get turned in.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by wanneroo » 05 Jul 2019, 12:30 am

xDom wrote:There seems to be an opinion in the US that Australians can’t get guns full stop. It fits into their narrative that any restrictions at all will lead to total confiscation and complete tyranny.
As much as I enjoy firearms, I don’t think their system is the way to do things.


I've never heard that at all from any gun people, you aren't pushing unsupported positions are you like Tucker :lol: ?

What we DO talk about is that registration leads to confiscation.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by wanneroo » 05 Jul 2019, 12:35 am

sungazer wrote:Wrenchman dont take this as an attack. However I do find it a little funny watching shows like Wardens and some others. There are so many rules and restrictions that are enforced with some pretty heavy handed attitudes and penalties. I am sure it has to be this way again because of the size of the population as if you start letting it slide it could be an ecological disaster if everyone could take as many deer as they wanted for example. We do have some similar rules like minimum calibre of a 270 for a Sambar deer but we dont have officers going around checking and extracting bullets from animals for forensic purposes.

We are starting to see some issues with Lead this is all about ranges and shotguns ATM it may progress we will have to wait and see.

Even in the US there are some places that have very strict gun laws to the point of places like New York where it is a total ban?

In general I think we are actually more free in Aus but things are changing with government owned land so again it will be not so interesting to see what happens. I certainly feel free-er here than when I lived in the US


You'll never have an issue with a game warden in the US if you are hunting legally in season.

There are a few localities with very strict gun laws but they are mostly leftist hellholes and I doubt you or I or anyone else here would want to live in those places, gun laws or not.

I think what I found with being more "free" in Australia is less people, less levels of bureaucracy and less supervision by government in more rural areas, but having said that the amount of nanny state stuff in Australia seems growing by the month, so enjoy while you can.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by wanneroo » 05 Jul 2019, 12:45 am

marksman wrote:having relatives who live in America has given me a bit of an idea on what they believe in America
it was not that long ago that they could not buy 22 rimfire ammo at the local gun store, lots of trouble with getting handgun ammo as well
if you wanted ammo you got it couriered to you or waited in line at the gun store parking lot when the ammo arrived and it was sold off the back of the truck, it never made it into the store
people were grabbing whatever ammo they could even if they didn't own that caliber rifle or handgun
gun stores had reloading machines in the back pumping out ammo as fast as they could and it sold as quick
what I remember being told was that the people feared what Obuma was going to do with gun laws so the people were stocking up
they were not ever going to just hand in there guns like we did
if you honestly think the US has not already taken guns off the citizens you are kidding yourself :crazy:


That was the 2013 ammo panic after Sandy Hook and IMO was a bit irrational as people just starting buying and then more people got panicked so more bought and pretty soon more were buying and then the shelves were getting stripped bare or retailers raised prices significantly. obama was the best gun and ammo seller we've ever seen. Probably about 120 million guns were sold during his two terms.

I took up reloading to ensure I always had a supply of ammo.

Now we have an ammo glut with ammunition sellers going out of business and ammunition companies struggling as well.

There are a lot of radical democrats and Antifa types that just dream of a violent civil war, government overthrow of Orange Man Bad, but I can tell you there are many, many people that are like I triple dog dare you to do that. I don't think those people want to go there. Rural America controls the flow of water, power, fuel, food and other resources into cities. We cut that off and it will be zombie land in New York City in a week.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by wanneroo » 05 Jul 2019, 12:48 am

TassieTiger wrote:I recently watched an online auction of firearms in the US thinking - this will be cool, see what the firearms we wish we could buy - actively sell for...
Well an old 9mm Uzzi - second hand, 2 spare clips and shoulder strap sold for...

Ready?

$15,000 US...

M16? Yep $11,000 US...

To my knowledge - These are not historical or rare firearms...


There are around 180,000 transferable machine guns out there and since 1986 they have increased in value, supply and demand.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by wrenchman » 05 Jul 2019, 1:54 am

sungazer our gun laws and hunting laws have nothing to do with each other tradition animal population and human density do.
it will change state to state but if you showed up with what you hunt with in aus or nz you would be good to go just read the regs and most the time if you do do some thing they will just warn you if its a mistake and man up when asked.
i was hunting rabbits in kentucky i got checked and was informed when hunting small game the shot gun was only allowed to hold 3 shells mine held 5 so i put a plug in the gun and it did say this in the regs i didnt read.
in some states you cant hunt big game with semi auto rifles and in most camps are frowned on.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by bigrich » 05 Jul 2019, 6:05 am

thanks for the info on the US WRENCHMAN and WANNEROO , some people over in oz "hear things" about the US , as i'm sure some people in the states "hear things" about "straya" there are many states in the US , all with different laws and attitudes, the laws in oz vary too. as a shooter there's no way i'd move to WA :roll: . over here the two major supermarket control the food supply , not farmers. in the US there are laws against cartel type behaviour that we don't have that a national party senator is crying out for. in oz , our food and petrol are controled by corporate cartels . electricity supply we were promised was supposed to be cheaper after being privatised, but what a joke that turned out to be .and don't get me started on the banks . i've seen on the news that heads of companies in the US can be sent to jail for improper practices. that's a extremely rare thing in oz . there's pro's and con's with the lifestyle of each country , from a recreational hunting and firearm lifestyle view i don't think we have it too bad in oz. but we need stronger representation to protect what rights we do have . and that's the problem, the aussie firearms owners are not united under a strong lobby group like the NRA , the leftists in this country carry on at the drop of a hat . the uproar in the media over the"one nation set up" was rediculous . the other problem in australia is the "can do" attitude of our colonial forefathers has been replaced with apathy and a "my one vote won't make a difference" attitude . where's the leftie labor party now ? not in power because enough people had a gutfull of lefty crap and voted for someone they considered a conservative . ya gotta wonder about the media in oz , they were pushing a labor victory before the election even started .

okay , rant over .

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 05 Jul 2019, 9:02 am

Very nice speech patriot :clap:

But you forget Australia doesn't give its citizens any rights.. gun ownership is a privilege and you have to do your part.

Secondly as said already, in us the people saying they will rise up if the government will come 4 their guns, every few months close their eyes and put their head under the sand while the government breaks down the 2nd amendment bit by bit, by taking away their rights one small law at a time. Go check the restrictions in California or NY.
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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by bigrich » 05 Jul 2019, 10:41 am

Ziad wrote:Very nice speech patriot :clap:

But you forget Australia doesn't give its citizens any rights.. gun ownership is a privilege and you have to do your part.

Secondly as said already, in us the people saying they will rise up if the government will come 4 their guns, every few months close their eyes and put their head under the sand while the government breaks down the 2nd amendment bit by bit, by taking away their rights one small law at a time. Go check the restrictions in California or NY.


that's absolutely right ziad. in australia it is a privilage to use/own guns, one that we need to be vigilant about in political and social representation, the later of which is not mentioned in the media unless it's in a negative light. we as a group need to be seen as 99.9% responsable as a group . it's harder to get permission to hunt on private land these days from halfwit poachers and other disrespectful types doing the wrong thing by landowners . i know of a few cases first hand that p!ss me off .california and new york are probably not my first choices anyway . the mid west and north west are more to my liking from what i know of the US

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:

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Re: US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

Post by Patriot » 05 Jul 2019, 10:51 am

Ziad wrote:Very nice speech patriot :clap:

But you forget Australia doesn't give its citizens any rights.. gun ownership is a privilege and you have to do your part.

Secondly as said already, in us the people saying they will rise up if the government will come 4 their guns, every few months close their eyes and put their head under the sand while the government breaks down the 2nd amendment bit by bit, by taking away their rights one small law at a time. Go check the restrictions in California or NY.


Yeah, thanks mate.

Australia’s constitution does guarantee some rights, the right to vote, freedom of religion, the right to move around the commonwealth, and to have your property confiscated “ on just terms”.

If a person possesses a firearms license, does that not give them the right to own any firearm they wish in the categories they are licensed for?

Much like a driver license gives you the right drive any vehicle in the class you are licensed for.

So, if you obey the law your right to firearms under your license conditions won’t be infringed.

The US states of California and New York have some laws that are out of step with the rest of the union but most of these relate to pistols and the concealed carrying of those pistols. In New York the laws mainly apply to the New York City limits and not to the rest of the state.

There is much legal opinion in the US that the restrictive laws are unconstitutional, and a lot of the laws are set to be challenged in the SCOTUS which has a conservative majority at the moment.

Americans have a long and distinguished history of standing up for liberty and freedom and defeating tyranny and oppression they will not stand idly by while their God given right to bear arms is under attack.
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