US opinions of Aus/NZ gunlaws

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah Stix I understand mate but saying ''As usual its aussie men having a spine'' big statement which to me put a tag on all of us not a selected few maybe it should have been worded a little better and yes I agree some men don't and yes we can't get our s$it together as one on the subject of gun laws and yes he has pretty much hit the nail on the head but with all that said what does he suggest other than what everyone has said on this forum for the last year about gun laws and if he has an
answer to this then we would like to know before calling aussie men spineless there are many reasons why people don't speak up and they're not all spineless

[Member-Deleted]

OK Flutch we are talking about the same thing but probably my head is in a different place so i'll leave it there because you do have a valid point but I don't agree about Australian men or at least not all Australian men not having a spine to do something I for one will do what it takes ''Legally'' that is to keep my rifles even if it was to march the street although i'd be in a wheel chair when doing so, so good talk Cheers ''and you to Stix''

[Stix]

Ill push you...but you'll have to sit my gun on your lap as well...

[Member-Deleted]

How big's this gun of yours we need room for ammo the chair has solid rubber tyres so won't get a flat if fired upon

[Stix]

My gun is same size as yours..but i could bring a Tikka lite i spose...

But just where are we going that we may get fired upon...?...
...and...
Im glad your tyres are solid & wont go flat, but im not so solid (im full of air as you know.. ) so i will go flat if fired upon...

[Sergeant Hartman]

No gun users have no unity that's right esp compared to LGBT. And its made worse by

1) some firearm users participate in illegal activities, also by destroying/damaging property while spotlight in private property and parks etc. Get the public against all firearm owners.

2) the peak bodies have traditionally been very rigid in protecting their turf....but now that they are trying to benefit the whole community many people will not support them cuz the people are too stuck up in the past.

3) many people, esp on online forums have a misconception that firearms in Australia was ever a right, it never was. Also they are very vocal in abusing the other side (any firearm owner that doesn't agree with whatever they say) but more importantly apart from bitching and moaning haven't done a single constructive thing...

they are happy to bitch about those who are doing something, but refuse to get off their lazy arse to do anything themselves. And finally they want it all their way.. no compromises. Not sure how that will work. The apathy is from you as well mate... but it might be hard to see


Lastly the fact is there is no unity among the firearm owners, but a huge amount of unity among the LGBT community..... and that my dear is the difference

[Member-Deleted]

Well Stix you just never know when we'll be fired upon with the law enforcement up here 2 people shot in just as many weeks ''What's this world coming to'' ? some people don't realise that if you pull a gun or a knife on police then you're gonna get shot '' SIMPLES''

[flutch]

No gun users have no unity that's right esp compared to LGBT. And its made worse by

1) some firearm users participate in illegal activities, also by destroying/damaging property while spotlight in private property and parks etc. Get the public against all firearm owners.

Lots and Lots and Lots of LGBT people participate in illegal and damaging activities also, Namely Drugs and Proliferation of STD's and Child sex offences. yet they still unite and act unapologetically.

2) the peak bodies have traditionally been very rigid in protecting their turf....but now that they are trying to benefit the whole community many people will not support them cuz the people are too stuck up in the past.

Most Peak bodies like SSAA and the likes are usually the meccas of fuddery and old wallflowers and exclusive boys clubs that are too scared to do anything constructive in the past and the present.

3) many people, esp on online forums have a misconception that firearms in Australia was ever a right, it never was. Also they are very vocal in abusing the other side (any firearm owner that doesn't agree with whatever they say) but more importantly apart from bitching and moaning haven't done a single constructive thing...

Correct, we don't have a bill of rights in Australia, we dont have half the "rights" people think we do, thank americanized media for that, we do not have them but we sure as s**t should be demanding them. and that cant be done without a united front and then the logical question is, if we are awarded the same sort of rights, then what do we have to ensure we can protect them? logical conclusion = right to own guns/defend the rights of citizens.

they are happy to bitch about those who are doing something, but refuse to get off their lazy arse to do anything themselves. And finally they want it all their way.. no compromises. Not sure how that will work. The apathy is from you as well mate... but it might be hard to see

And I see what youre saying, but people should always enter into negotiations making the highest of demands, compromising and making concessions only ever loses you what youre asking for, so not asking for ALL wants of all shooters/lafo's means that not only are they not going to feel represented but they are also going to lose out completely in any negotiations with lawmakers, thats far from presenting a united front.

Lastly the fact is there is no unity among the firearm owners, but a huge amount of unity among the LGBT community..... and that my dear is the difference

Yup

[Stix]

Ziad...
You started with a double negative that neutralises your point...
But i get what you mean...

I disagree with your point of "firearm ownership was never a right"...
It WAS a right...or atleast it WAS treated as a right, not only by firearms owners, but all of society AS WELL AS the authorities...!!
Sure it may not be written in our constitution as a right...but then neither was growing dope mate...& here in SA, there was a time that was treated as a right by growers & authorities....a knock on the door...back the van up to the garage & take all the plants..$150 on the spot fine....next day after work straight down the hydro shop to get it all up & running asap...!!

Among other similar laws, there is such a thing as precedence & other "expectant" type laws (not sure of the term im after atm) that stsnd up in the highest levels of our judicial system to "socially acceptable/vote winning circumstance...not to mention discrimination laws etc etc...

Having a drivers licence is not a 'right' either...
SO...
Whats say we take all cars from gays & restrict their licence to riding a moped...?
Why would we do this...?...because statistically gays are more likely to kill innocent people in bigger numbers with a car than a moped...!

And what would gays winning legal arguements be...??
RIGHTS & DISCRIMINATION...Thats what...!!
You see those words--RIGHTS & DISCRIMINATION...they would find a legal rightful arguement that it is their RIGHT to own a car, despite it not being written in law as a right...!!!

Our firearms were treated as a right...if they werent, then give me an arguement against why we had more of a right to own a firearm than a homo did to get married in a church in the 70's...!!!

And neither of these points were written into our constitution...

So, i think its you who is apathetic in accepting such a pityful arguement--you have literally succesfully fallen into their brainwashing without realising it... , & while we have gun owners who actively not only accept, bit preech such sillyness along with the arguements like 5 shot tube mags are ok but 7 shot mags are dangerous, etc etc, we will continue to be progressively stripped of our rights.

A couple of disclaimers--im not being LBTIGQ-ist here--just using as example...
& im not trying to argue with you ziad, rather voice my opinion to hopefully let you see how i think your view of "not a right" is demonstrative of you being "convinced" of such an arguement to suit the GCA & anti crowd.

And dont call me dear...sweetie...lol

[flutch]

So, i think its you who is apathetic in accepting such a pityful arguement--you have literally succesfully fallen into their brainwashing without realising it... , & while we have gun owners who actively not only accept, bit preech such sillyness along with the arguements like 5 shot tube mags are ok but 7 shot mags are dangerous, etc etc, we will continue to be progressively stripped of our rights.

all too common in the shooting community, no other demographic that I fit into is so willing to throw itself under the bus to appease others who have only malcontent for them.

A couple of disclaimers--im not being LBTIGQ-ist here--just using as example...
& im not trying to argue with you ziad, rather voice my opinion to hopefully let you see how i think your view of "not a right" is demonstrative of you being "convinced" of such an arguement to suit the GCA & anti crowd.

And dont call me dear...sweetie...lol

Definitely I only raised the LGBT topic because it is a good example of people who have against all odds turned the tide of popular opinion against them. if you told someone in the 80s that poofs would be married now they would probably back away slowly thinking you needed some evaluation, heck even in the 90s that would have been the case. but due to their efforts they changed popular opinion, via several social mechanisms they have turned people from ostracising them and judging them to people asserting their rights on their behalf, these include using victimhood, using minority victimhood, being unapologetic, steadfast, presenting a united front and so on. gun owners act too divided and too many are naysayers and gutless wonders.