Hundreds of firearms seized across Australia

[bigfellascott]

400 odd firearms seized today down in Cooma from a Dealer.

[Chronos]

400 odd firearms seized today down in Cooma from a Dealer.

And in the end it'll mostly be all clerical errors and almost all charges will be dismissed and it'll have cost the tax payer a few million

Of course that's no ones fault but the shop owner.

Chronos

[gordicans]

I wonder more about the entire cost in taxpayer dollars and wasted Police man hours enforcing ludicrous punitive laws ...[/quote]

which punitive laws are you referring to?

[mickb]

What I don't like about inspections is its a service paid for by tax payers to target one of the lowest forms of crime. Even in the day before gunlaws and mandatory storage, no one cared how their guns were stored, nor did the police or the public. The money could better be spent targeting drugs, child abuse and suicide( one of the biggest killers). They could close weapons licencing tomorrow and give all the clowns jobs doing welfare checks for lonely pensioners and save 10x the lives...

Secondly the idea a private citizen has some "personal responsibilty " regards what a criminal does with the proceeds of their crime against you(with your stolen goods!) is the most ridiculous concept and successful brainwashes I have seen by a government in several countries.

Good heavens, no wonder Australia is ripe for accepting 36 genders and all this other rubbish. People have lost the ability to reason.

[bladeracer]

I wonder more about the entire cost in taxpayer dollars and wasted Police man hours enforcing ludicrous punitive laws ...

which punitive laws are you referring to?[/quote]

Almost all of the firearm laws that have come since '96 have been designed purely to make having a firearm licence harder, increase the ways in which we can lose that licence, without engaging in criminal activity or being an actual threat to the community, and greatly reduce the number of firearm owners in the longer term by restricting access to the sport. As these controls do nothing at all for the stated goal of community safety, their only purpose is to punish anybody that has any interest in firearms and shooting. Pre-96 firearm laws worked perfectly fine for decades, without the assumption that any interest in firearms is a sure indicator of criminal intent, at far less cost to Police and the community, and without the "them the versus us" mentality that drives our current mess. It still required us to be licensed and vetted, but the Police helped us instead of hindering us, even running shooting programs for kids - I started shooting under Police instruction at PCYC when I started high school.

[bigrich]

400 odd firearms seized today down in Cooma from a Dealer.

I saw a news story on that yesterday afternoon BFS . The number of firearms had grown to 450, must’ve been some timber stocks that got counted as firearms also hey ? The news footage showed lots of 44 drums that had been sitting outside with water and snow in them that looked full of milsurps. It had something to do with a deceased estate apparently. I almost cried when I thought of some classic collectibles that were probably in those drums

[trekin]

I'm not saying they don't waste money, and are we the primary source of illegal guns, no, but i can tell you for a fact legal guns get stolen, when i was 20 (so way back before the safe storage laws) i was at a mates house when a bloke came over trying to sell two 22's and a 12g pumpy that he somehow ended up with that were stolen from some poor bastard. We told him to f@ck off and never come back. I also had my place broken into once many years ago before the safe storage laws and i had 4 guns under the bed, if they had of checked under the bed there would be 4 more illegal guns floating around out there, so don't try to tell me that unsecured guns don't get stolen because they do.
It may not be the violent criminals stealing them, it's the dead sh!ts and junkies breaking into houses, but everything they steal ends up back at the drug dealers house being swapped for drugs, so yes they eventually do end up in the hands of the not so nice.

If your guns are not secure and the cops take them then suck sh!t you got what you deserve. And don't worry they're spending plenty of money to combat violent crime and i'm sure a large chunk of that is being wasted too.

Like Tassie said how many legal guns in safes were taken? The answer would be NONE.

We have plenty of gun restrictions/laws here that suck, but the safe storage laws aren't one of them.

Of course firearms get stolen, anything can be stolen, and will be. But having your firearm stolen makes you a victim of crime, not a perpetrator of it. Gun safes do not prevent firearms from being stolen, if you follow some Facebok groups, victims of theft post photos of their gun safes that have been cut or smashed open, or stolen intact and dumped after being emptied. And as a tiny percentage of stolen firearms are recovered from criminals, usually not as part of violent crime, why should you be held responsible for "allowing" your firearm to be stolen, any more so than being held responsible for anything of yours being stolen, sold, and the money used to buy illegal guns or drugs that will be used to kill people? Stop thinking of yourself as a criminal in waiting, as GCA keep telling the public we are.

I don't think anybody disagrees that we should keep our firearms locked up, they're expensive, but nobody should be criminalised for deciding how they prefer to protect their assets. The only effect it has on society is in keeping guns out of the hands of Green morons, like Tim Winton (who would sit in his house as a kid, with his dad's rifle, sighting on people in his neighbourhood), or the Green politicians (I can't recall the name of the moron who tried to kill his brother when he found a handgun left in the bathroom by a family acquaintance ). The people who don't want us to have firearms are driven by their own experiences of stupidity, no moral compass, and zero self discipline - they simply assume the whole population is as reckless and stupid as they know themselves to be.

I agree with you mate, but what you were saying before and what i replied to was that inspections were a waste of resources and money and are picking on us lafos and that stolen guns are all GCA bullsh!t and i disagree.

The way licencing and ptas and registration is setup has already been proven to be an ineffective over complicated expensive waste of time & money, but the small part of it that is a couple of plods coming out to check that our stuff is stored properly is very inexpensive and good value for money for them. A hour or twos wages for 1 or 2 plods to go to a house and check that x amount of guns are safe and where they should be is nothing compared to tracking down stolen and otherwise illegally obtained guns.
Like i've repeatedly said if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of who gives a F@ck if they want to come & have a look?? The guys whinging about inspections carry on more like "victims" than anyone, "oh no they want to look at my guns oh i'm being oppressed poor poor me" What a load of tinfoil hat bullsh!t.

Enjoy your guns, fight the anti's, jump the occasional hoop, smile for the inspections and have fun the other 99.99% of the time. Life's not that hard.

Who, exactly are the "guys whinging about inspections" in this thread?
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of ", after reading some of the posts here, it appears that there are a few who do believe that they have something to hide, or maybe they're just ashamed at being law abiding in this upside down country.

[trekin]

geez blade , if what you've said is true about those green party nutters , that's very worrying that these people are trying to have a say in politics in our country

those facts are very disturbing. i've often thought that the people who speak out against gun ownership seem to be the type of people who shouldn't be allowed to own them ......

They are self-published admissions, whether the tellers can be trusted to recognize truth, I sincerely doubt, but both statements were made in attacks against lawful firearm owners, so clearly indicate how these people view the rest of us.

And at least one of those admissions was made in Parliament; https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... 4d3b55cf90

[trekin]

So what? If you're gear is stored safely then who cares if you get an inspection? Is having a couple of coppers turn up to your house for a short while really that big of an issue?
Oh the oppression and victimisation they must have felt, perhaps they need a hug.

And yet, one is left wondering just how much more of the 'actual problem' could have being fixed with the manpower and resources expended on these unnecessarly targeted inspections of LAFOs during an operation that was supposed to tackle the trafficking and use of illicit firearms.

I'm pretty sure weapons licencing aren't the ones running around kicking in doors with warrants taking guns off criminals, tracking internet sales of "solvent traps" or confiscating suppressors & guns/parts at customs. So while other branches are covering those avenues why shouldn't they go and check on some lafos as well.
My guess is they've figured out that perhaps some of the older blokes who didn't have to worry about safe storage for many years may just need to be checked on to keep their guns safe, and people with over 20 guns (which many of us are) might be considered targets for thieves. I don't really know what their thinking is but like i said who gives a f@ck if they come and check on us? If your guns are safe it's cost you nothing, and if they're not then cop it on the chin.

The article said they also confiscated a small amount of "unsecured ammo and firearms" which says to me that they were legal guns & ammo, so some of their as you put it "unnecessary targeted inspections" were in fact necessary.

I just don't get the mindset some people have about inspections. They come, smile & show em your guns, they go........what's the issue? They didn't kick your dog or shag your wife so who cares?

HMMM.... naive or gullible?? Either way, tis a pitty to see another taken hook, line and sinker by the Govt/media baiting programme.

[JSS]

Who, exactly are the "guys whinging about inspections" in this thread?
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of ", after reading some of the posts here, it appears that there are a few who do believe that they have something to hide, or maybe they're just ashamed at being law abiding in this upside down country.

Considering your first two posts i'd say you., and given the our conversation i'd also say BR. Also how is not caring about an inspection being ashamed or having something to hide. It's the other way around mate you guys are the ones protesting about something that really doesn't matter. I bet you whinge when you get a speeding fine to and say the gov is out to get you.

HMMM.... naive or gullible?? Either way, tis a pitty to see another taken hook, line and sinker by the Govt/media baiting programme.

Between this and your comment above you sound about as rational and level headed as the nutjob antis. congratulations.
Oh i think aldi are having a special on tinfoil at the moment....you should hurry down there.

Anyway, you keep on fighting the good fight mate. I'm going to take my hook, line and sinker along with my shame filled law abiding self and pack my range bag, I've got some new toys to sight in & play with.

[Oldbloke]

+1 JSS , I live in suburbia and don’t tell the neighbors I’ve got firearms, I keep things out of sight by loading my gun cases in my vehicle in my side yard so people can’t sticky beak. There are opportunistic scumbags looking for a quick buck out there, I don’t make it easy for them

Yep, I do the same. And I dont have "winchester" or "deer hunting" signs on my ute.

[bladeracer]

Who, exactly are the "guys whinging about inspections" in this thread?
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of ", after reading some of the posts here, it appears that there are a few who do believe that they have something to hide, or maybe they're just ashamed at being law abiding in this upside down country.

Considering your first two posts i'd say you., and given the our conversation i'd also say BR. Also how is not caring about an inspection being ashamed or having something to hide. It's the other way around mate you guys are the ones protesting about something that really doesn't matter. I bet you whinge when you get a speeding fine to and say the gov is out to get you.

HMMM.... naive or gullible?? Either way, tis a pitty to see another taken hook, line and sinker by the Govt/media baiting programme.

Between this and your comment above you sound about as rational and level headed as the nutjob antis. congratulations.
Oh i think aldi are having a special on tinfoil at the moment....you should hurry down there.

Anyway, you keep on fighting the good fight mate. I'm going to take my hook, line and sinker along with my shame filled law abiding self and pack my range bag, I've got some new toys to sight in & play with.

I can't see how you could possibly construe any of my comments as running along that line. Being law-abiding has nothing whatever to do with my comments on the state of our firearm laws. I can say though that I don't get off on being the high and mighty looking down on those fellow shooters that disagree with my views...

[bladeracer]

Who, exactly are the "guys whinging about inspections" in this thread?
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of ", after reading some of the posts here, it appears that there are a few who do believe that they have something to hide, or maybe they're just ashamed at being law abiding in this upside down country.

I would hope, and trust that nobody on this forum has anything to hide, and I doubt any firearm owner feels any shame for abiding the stupid laws we're stuck with.

I also didn't notice anybody whinging about inspections, I must've missed that completely.

[Oldbloke]

Any stats on how many legally owned and registered firearms were actually stolen from safes ?

We are never told that, are we?. Mmmmm I wonder why?

On the telly a while back, (abc i think) show about illegal drugs. They stated that less than 1% of shipping containers get xrayed. And no checks on any yachts & most shipping coming into the country.

So maybe safer to just ship them in in bulk!

[bigrich]

+1 JSS , I live in suburbia and don’t tell the neighbors I’ve got firearms, I keep things out of sight by loading my gun cases in my vehicle in my side yard so people can’t sticky beak. There are opportunistic scumbags looking for a quick buck out there, I don’t make it easy for them

Yep, I do the same. And I dont have "winchester" or "deer hunting" signs on my ute.

Some of the stickers I see on vehicles are a real give away. Only sticker I got on my vehicle is the “eureka “ flag

[TassieTiger]

Any stats on how many legally owned and registered firearms were actually stolen from safes ?

We are never told that, are we?. Mmmmm I wonder why?

On the telly a while back, (abc i think) show about illegal drugs. They stated that less than 1% of shipping containers get xrayed. And no checks on any yachts & most shipping coming into the country.

So maybe safer to just ship them in in bulk!

Problem out there now - and I see it daily in my work - is that stats can be and are manipulated to what ever the end user wants...

Eg 1% of shipping containers are x rayed is not the way the govt would spin it.
They’d say, a very high number of containers coming into the country are checked and x rayed for illegal firearms. Of those containers checked, 99% are found to be clean (giving an indication of a much higher check ratio)...

[Ricochet]

So what? If you're gear is stored safely then who cares if you get an inspection? Is having a couple of coppers turn up to your house for a short while really that big of an issue?
Oh the oppression and victimisation they must have felt, perhaps they need a hug.

And yet, one is left wondering just how much more of the 'actual problem' could have being fixed with the manpower and resources expended on these unnecessarly targeted inspections of LAFOs during an operation that was supposed to tackle the trafficking and use of illicit firearms.

I'm pretty sure weapons licencing aren't the ones running around kicking in doors with warrants taking guns off criminals, tracking internet sales of "solvent traps" or confiscating suppressors & guns/parts at customs. So while other branches are covering those avenues why shouldn't they go and check on some lafos as well.
My guess is they've figured out that perhaps some of the older blokes who didn't have to worry about safe storage for many years may just need to be checked on to keep their guns safe, and people with over 20 guns (which many of us are) might be considered targets for thieves. I don't really know what their thinking is but like i said who gives a f@ck if they come and check on us? If your guns are safe it's cost you nothing, and if they're not then cop it on the chin.

The article said they also confiscated a small amount of "unsecured ammo and firearms" which says to me that they were legal guns & ammo, so some of their as you put it "unnecessary targeted inspections" were in fact necessary.

I just don't get the mindset some people have about inspections. They come, smile & show em your guns, they go........what's the issue? They didn't kick your dog or shag your wife so who cares?

Do you actually believe the GCA bulls**t that LAFO's are the primary source of firearms used in gun crime? When you accept the truth, that violent criminals have zero interest in stealing our firearms, then perhaps you'll understand why it's a tragic waste of resources that should be directed elsewhere, where it can achieve measurable results against violent crime.

I'm not saying they don't waste money, and are we the primary source of illegal guns, no, but i can tell you for a fact legal guns get stolen, when i was 20 (so way back before the safe storage laws) i was at a mates house when a bloke came over trying to sell two 22's and a 12g pumpy that he somehow ended up with that were stolen from some poor bastard. We told him to f@ck off and never come back. I also had my place broken into once many years ago before the safe storage laws and i had 4 guns under the bed, if they had of checked under the bed there would be 4 more illegal guns floating around out there, so don't try to tell me that unsecured guns don't get stolen because they do.
It may not be the violent criminals stealing them, it's the dead sh!ts and junkies breaking into houses, but everything they steal ends up back at the drug dealers house being swapped for drugs, so yes they eventually do end up in the hands of the not so nice.

If your guns are not secure and the cops take them then suck sh!t you got what you deserve. And don't worry they're spending plenty of money to combat violent crime and i'm sure a large chunk of that is being wasted too.

Like Tassie said how many legal guns in safes were taken? The answer would be NONE.

We have plenty of gun restrictions/laws here that suck, but the safe storage laws aren't one of them.

Still waiting for my licence, no guns yet.
Do have safe waiting to be bolted down, and a lockable cash safe(edit: lockable cash tin) for extra ammo storage, might have to get another two or three of those

[Oldbloke]

Problem out there now - and I see it daily in my work - is that stats can be and are manipulated to what ever the end user wants...

Eg 1% of shipping containers are x rayed is not the way the govt would spin it.
They’d say, a very high number of containers coming into the country are checked and x rayed for illegal firearms. Of those containers checked, 99% are found to be clean (giving an indication of a much higher check ratio)...

Agree, i have seen it many times. But it was quoted the way i said.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Lol you are right... the saying goes, there is lies, damned lies then there is statistics.

Yep 1% is about where it is, but if you see border force or customs tv shows... which are just marketing fluf

[mickb]

Some blokes get mixed up about the fact abiding by laws does not necessarily mean agreeing with them. Its well within law abiding citizens rights to assess and blackmark new laws in the making or challenge or lobby those already passed. Its not about conspiracy theories, its just about maintaning the balance between legislators and the public, which is how its meant to work.

I abide by gunlaws and paying traffic tickets for example but am also happy to call both shamworthy/revenue based, if they appear so.

Currently we have vastly more laws than we did 30 years ago, with 2x the police per capita to maintain them and 100% more people going to prison. Thats not a net postive effect, its a royal f***ing clusterf***. It means a lot of these laws are missing their intended targets or failing to deter or influence people to do right. Perfect reasons to demand better from the government.

[TassieTiger]

Interestingly and just to put my own foot in my mouth RE stats - a local internal police report has just been leaked to the press down here in tassie and shows how darn good the firearm laws are working...I can’t recall no’s exactly and now I can’t find the report (May have been pulled)...but it was along the lines of——
65 armed robberies in the last year is up 30% on last year, a 25% increase in other violent attacks, 30% increase in vehicle thefts, 12% increase in drug deaths, home invasions up 15%, etc - every single heading for measurement has jumped north significantly...

[trekin]

Who, exactly are the "guys whinging about inspections" in this thread?
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of ", after reading some of the posts here, it appears that there are a few who do believe that they have something to hide, or maybe they're just ashamed at being law abiding in this upside down country.

I would hope, and trust that nobody on this forum has anything to hide, and I doubt any firearm owner feels any shame for abiding the stupid laws we're stuck with.

I also didn't notice anybody whinging about inspections, I must've missed that completely.

Well I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks that I was not whinging, and using the 'victim card', about inspections. I put that question to JSS, as I also have not seen any whinging about inspections.
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of " comment, that was a tongue in cheek dig at those who comment about how careful they are in not letting their neighbors see them loading their guns into their cars, or not having shooting related stickers on their vehicles. Along the lines of "Oh, I have nothing to hide, and I make damn sure that no one sees that I have nothing to hide".

[bigrich]

Who, exactly are the "guys whinging about inspections" in this thread?
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of ", after reading some of the posts here, it appears that there are a few who do believe that they have something to hide, or maybe they're just ashamed at being law abiding in this upside down country.

I would hope, and trust that nobody on this forum has anything to hide, and I doubt any firearm owner feels any shame for abiding the stupid laws we're stuck with.

I also didn't notice anybody whinging about inspections, I must've missed that completely.

Well I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks that I was not whinging, and using the 'victim card', about inspections. I put that question to JSS, as I also have not seen any whinging about inspections.
As for the "if we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of " comment, that was a tongue in cheek dig at those who comment about how careful they are in not letting their neighbors see them loading their guns into their cars, or not having shooting related stickers on their vehicles. Along the lines of "Oh, I have nothing to hide, and I make damn sure that no one sees that I have nothing to hide".

Well I’m a cautious person by nature, with a little OCD thrown in . I grew up in a blue Collar suburb, and still live in one. And threw my life experiences, am well aware of the petty criminal activity of opportunistic drug addicts and wanna be criminals who maybe have links to outlaw bike clubs . And firearms are a big black market item for quick cash . People talk , and ya don’t really know ya neighbors or who they might know. I’m far from ashamed for being a shooter/hunter, but being cautious in my situation is just plain common sense

JMHO

[Sergeant Hartman]

Better be safe than sorry

[Stix]

I understand Trekkins point, but i dont see anything wrong with being discreet when loading firearms into car around the house BigRich...i, & im sure many do the same mate

There are far too many unscrupulous folk around these days that ive no doubt would happily target a house for not being home timetables...
And unfortunately, plenty of those types are attracted to "the more brazen the crime, the better" attitude...& those kunts dont need any encouragement...!!!

Not hiding the fact one is a proud lafo is distinctly different than having an extraverted egotistical arrogance when it comes to loading firearms into the car at home to advertise you're off for a few days to go shootin...

[bigrich]

I understand Trekkins point, but i dont see anything wrong with being discreet when loading firearms into car around the house BigRich...i, & im sure many do the same mate

There are far too many unscrupulous folk around these days that ive no doubt would happily target a house for not being home timetables...
And unfortunately, plenty of those types are attracted to "the more brazen the crime, the better" attitude...& those kunts dont need any encouragement...!!!

Not hiding the fact one is a proud lafo is distinctly different than having an extraverted egotistical arrogance when it comes to loading firearms into the car at home to advertise you're off for a few days to go shootin...

exactly stix 'ole mate i've found that attitudes to firearms can vary depending on where you live and travel to . a lot of the reigions i travel and hunt in on the NSW/QLD border have had the fires go through in the last day or so. i bin told the fire came in real close to Tenterfield town . spare a thought and a prayer for those affected fellas .