fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fund

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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 19 Sep 2019, 5:29 pm

gee Tassie tiger nobody has been crucified lol, Im guessing you'd probably argue with your own cat, and having a conversation on NSW ranges issues and FAR that have occured in recent times seems to be a no go zone because you see it as dividing and attacking, mate Id suggest you stop winding yourself up over this issue.

Like most people I like when go fund me was used by people trying to raise money to help sick kids and alike.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 19 Sep 2019, 5:50 pm

All's good Tassie I won't get involved in the Bill / Tassie issue but I do under stand what rumors do to peoples lives I lost customers in my business partly through rumors I was forced to sell up and go into bankruptcy but one golden piece to come out of all that was '' When dealing with the public ''which this forum is'' there are so many different opinions and in amongst them are the ''embellishers'' not liers just add onto situation which then grows into a rumor unbeknowns to the embellisher that's why when I went bankrupt I shouted from the roof tops the '' FACTS'' so all could hear something that was not forth coming in old mates case it shouldn't have taken you as a good gesture on your own to make this happen again well done I say this because there was enough time passed for the embellishment to grow into this monster '' rumor'' of which can make a life and can tear it down in an instant most people that give their embellished side of the story most likely aren't aware of the embellishment but just throw it into the conversation some even can force the point to saying it's true but then it becomes a lie and is now dangerous mankind will never get rid of embellishment because we like a good chat and we are so competitive in everything we do frustration is just a bad add on to rumor, debate ,commonsense, and speaking the truth as you see it are 3 ways I know to defunct rumors ( long winded I know but mate you're dead right about we all need to heed rumors and unite for a good cause ) :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 6:30 pm

Bill wrote:gee Tassie tiger nobody has been crucified lol, Im guessing you'd probably argue with your own cat, and having a conversation on NSW ranges issues and FAR that have occured in recent times seems to be a no go zone because you see it as dividing and attacking, mate Id suggest you stop winding yourself up over this issue.

Like most people I like when go fund me was used by people trying to raise money to help sick kids and alike.


Nice work Bill - You posts say it all.
enough said now from me. I’ll move on.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 19 Sep 2019, 8:44 pm

sungazer wrote:IMHO I still think there is an infringement or a misunderstanding of the certification at the center of all the dispute. I would put money on it come down to shooting a steel gongs with high power rifles ie more than the 1500fps.

Having on opinion or guess on a forum is not crucifying a guy. Something happened we don't know what chat and guessing is going to be natural. Nothing I say on here is going to effect any outcome or influence anybody else.

Where it may have gone further is if the officer thought that any type of tactical or even defensive training was occurring as in perhaps a Prepper type class. We are not allowed to defend ourselves here in Aus thank goodness most of the crazy's dont have guns. Home invasions still something we never had 10 years ago. I only mention this because Mitch also alluded to it when he said the FAR guys were questioning the shooters about this sort of stuff. Its a reason why a lot of ranges wont allow cammo clothes on the range. A step to far in my opinion camo seems to be one of the fashionable colours in a lot of clothing and my warmest jacket is a cammo.


with all due respect sungazer you still sound like you are picking at straws :unknown: like he has to have done something wrong for this to happen
I am not saying that you are crucifying Mitch or his business but you are just putting up an opinion without showing any facts :unknown:
and you are not the only one doing it
I think you are very knowledgeable with what you are involved with rifles ect related and you have a lot of comp/range experience therefore you know as well as l do about the licensing divisions power over ranges for there templates, law/legislation or not, its not like they are on the shooters side is it :unknown:
guessing only helps spread sh!t talk, IMHO you really need to have a chat with Mitch to sort out your what you believe is not quite right,
he has asked people to do just that so there is an end to the bullsh!t rumours

now as for the theory about tactical or defensive training being illegal can you give a link to show it is illegal
I consider IPSC as a tactical/defence way of shooting/training and they shoot steel gongs at very close distances, meters away with no shrouds or anything to stop a ricochet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCxMgBfgTb0
ssaa even has a law enforcement activities discipline :unknown:

I also disagree with you saying that 10 years ago we never heard of home invasions because we did, just not by the sudanese :lol:

to be honest the clubs I have had anything to do with dont allow camo clothing because they do not want to be associated with hunters, and that is fact it has nothing to do with tactical, defensive or the prepper type's, I have had big debates with idiots from clubs who reckon its a good idea, usually the ones enforcing it, farkwits want a dress code so it makes the sport look better, they need to understand that not everyone likes eating paper :lol:

so as I said earlier it might be a good idea to drop Mitch an email with what you are thinking :drinks: and then get back to us, let us know how you went
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by fitchaj » 19 Sep 2019, 9:41 pm

TassieTiger wrote:It’s probably a bit unfair of me to have a shot at Bill as I have - But i just get extremely frustrated when, here was an example of someone having a crack, the facts as presented showed decent if not perfect compliance and instead of rallying as a group to get behind a fellow shooter - ppl make sh*t up to pull others down(by all means, if you want to post up sources to your rumours, do so)...it’s the one thing that will screw all of us over in the long run vs those trying to ban the sport and I don’t understand it.


I don't think you were unfair at all. He was carrying on like a gossip Queen and got caught out. Has to sting
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 19 Sep 2019, 10:52 pm

@Marksman I understand what you are saying and agree with a lot of your points. But I also think that it is human nature when you dont know the reason for something you naturally make your own personal explanation for it, (Best guess). Thats all I am doing and sharing it because it is being discussed here. I may be out of step with everyone else.

Even though I make up my own reason for the action I can still support the cause in general as a shooter wanting to have a voice and be united. The only reason I have to make my best guess at a reason this occurred is Mitch as not come out and given us what the reasons given by the FAR are. I am not going to go around spreading what i think as the true facts or perpetuate anyone else's opinions as a rumor.

The reason I mentioned the tactical training bit is because of the current climate against that sort of training. There is certainly a "cloak and dagger rule" about not setting up any sort of para military type training courses camps. America is now carrying out assassinations in countries with no declared war even against there own citizens without any form of judicial hearing. I make reference to an American muslem cleric preaching in Yenem. The world seems to be operating as anything goes if it can be linked to the war on terrorism and the links can sometimes seem very week to me. There are private companies that do provide tactical training and they make it very clear that it is for law enforcement, government agencies only and have special permission.

Crime rate and the rate of more violent crimes I think you will find has increased over the years. I certainly have that feeling is that just the media giving me that feeling or is it a real increase. Governments don't want to disclose that. They have a ban on giving/ reporting any ethnic details about crime unless it is a white male. Still it seems a lot more violent. Did we have car jacking 10 years ago? they are quite regular now, that must be a horrifying experience.
I made this comment because I disagree with the law that deprives us of being able to basically defend ourselves without fear of ending up being the bad guy.

The cammo comment again I disagree with the ranges that have this rule. What is wrong with being associated with hunters?

I made these comments to try and show I think I have a balanced and what i think is a sensible approach to include all shooters as LAFO, So there should be no need for different groups to try and distance themselves or say we are better than them sort of thing.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 19 Sep 2019, 11:11 pm

AAH geez there has been a long healthy sometimes warm debate so far, no one has lost an eye so lets not spoil it by taking sides and pointing fingers lets just respect each others opinions even though sometimes those opinions are boarder line this whole thing will take its coarse and will be fine so lets let sleeping dogs lay and get on with things life's too short cheers gents and ladies :thumbsup: :) ;) :drinks:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Ziad » 20 Sep 2019, 7:30 am

In vic, we definitely have had a big increase in armed invasions, car jacking and even shootings over the last 5/8 years..but the question is

Have other states esp QLD or NSW had similar issues?

I think the increase of the incidences have also coincided with the general increase in drug use and the acceptance of the government that its ok to be a druggie... its not your fault

Edited to make clearer
Blame it on the phone auto correct
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 20 Sep 2019, 7:55 am

I'm a bit off post but yes Ziad you pretty much said it all same up here in our small city (town) law sways to diminished responsibility because of their addiction it all starts with good Samaritans trying to help these people by giving them a break to them using it to avoid punishment there is a person up here that has avoided imprisonment on several occasions because of his love affair with ''ice'' not sure if this is done elsewhere but it did here
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 21 Sep 2019, 5:12 pm

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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 21 Sep 2019, 6:54 pm

There you go it makes the mind boggle ''Verbal'' accusations by the commission I think if Mitch and his staff had done anything wrong they would be charged or at least be given the charges in writing instead of verbal forgive me if i'm wrong but I thought that's the way the law worked to shut or stop something of that type would have a long paperwork trail to prove the accusations toward Mitch and crew . Keith wrote a little post under the read and I think he has a point ya know it might be as simple as a way for the police commission of NSW to see how far they can push their agenda by using Mitch his business and his crew as cannon fodder and if that's the case then it's ''SHAMEFUL'' just goes to show you can put your life on the line for a country and be treated like this when you return best of luck to him and his crew
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Oct 2019, 5:12 pm

A further update -
Hi Guys,

Latest update to this situation, we are still talking to registry and it seems the biggest issue now is that we are being told we now have to shroud targets to prevent recoil from steel being impacted.
As this has never been an issue in the past nor has it been brought up before we are fighting this, we have been instructed by registry that there has been no changes to the range RDA or legislation and that no restrictions have been put in place. But we now must shroud steel, the reason we were given is that I changed my target hangers from being solid mounted to swinging.
This has no different affect then the hard mounted targets, in fact from my research a swinging target is more likely to deflect the projectile down to the ground after absorbing most the impact in the swinging back motion.
If there has been no change to legislation and range RDA then why do we need to shroud steel.

I even have in writing from them in 2017 when I asked the question, do we need to shroud steel targets on the range. The answer I got was -

We have looked at the original range RDA and it does include hard targets, therefore you do not need to shroud such targets on the range.

So why now has it changed when the original range approval was for steel targets, nothing legislation wise has changed. This does not make sense to me so we are pushing. Thanks for all the support, we will see where this leads.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 01 Oct 2019, 5:59 pm

and what do they expect the shrouds to do :lol:
it sounds like they have employed some ssaa guys who think they can control a ricochete :lol:

as I said earlier after the ssaa little river ricochete incident I was a person at the meeting held by the ssaa when an invited expert from the armed forces got up and explained how a ricochete works and his advice was that you cannot control a ricochete and that the projectile has already ricocheted before the swinging target moves :wtf: following his advise shrouds would be useless and as I said after this bloke left we were all told by the ssaa operations manager at that time to disregard everything we had just heard :crazy: obviously he could not take that news to the vic lrd :o the expert said that the only control you have over a ricochete is distance and it was agreed that 200 meters was sufficient for there main public range but the sub clubs would not change and they still shoot as close as 5 meters at swinging steel targets,
I think the 200 rule was a number they came up with because that is what they do at interstate ranges :lol:

its a real shame I dont have contact with this army expert as his credentials hold up in court
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Oct 2019, 7:25 pm

You’ve only got to look at tracer ricochets to see how they react...

I wonder if a compromise can’t be reached to satisfy the buffoons...even knock off Kevlar fabric on the sides of targets via a basic framework or what ever - just to get these ducks off his back and move on...
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 01 Oct 2019, 9:53 pm

I know the guy feels like he is being singled out and picked on.However If it were me I would be making small sheds or tunnels out of railway sleepers and small just big enough to have the steel target at the back of probably the full length of a sleeper 8-9 ft. As others have said work with them not against. Trying to fight against it will just cost money and wasted time. There is still going to be one more obstacle in his way. That is they are restricted to 8mm so no 338 cal or similar. The other option if the range complies get the range certified for larger cals than the 308 and other 30 cals.

In NSW they have as in the NSW Police an 81 page document on Range Users Guide actually a step by step guide on how to build the different types of ranges the danger zones or in reverse the saftey zones that are required for each type of sport / gun.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 01 Oct 2019, 10:13 pm

The range is (was) certified for what he requires. He built the place in line with stipulated requirements - he was 110% compliant.
He also feels likes he’s fighting hypocrites...he has a letter stating shrouds were not required as part of his certification ...but now they are...
What’s to stop them changing the goal posts again...if this gent has to shroud his targets, why wouldn’t everyone who is doing similar...?
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CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
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Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by perentie » 02 Oct 2019, 7:14 am

Here in QLD years ago ,I wanted to put a couple of steel hangers in front of the full bore mantlet for blackpowder lead bullet shooting. They said OK but to put them in a bunker.. I stacked some old railway sleepers behind , on each side and on top, pushing up some dirt behind as well., and all was good. The sides are in front of the swingers by about a foot. So far so good.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 02 Oct 2019, 2:05 pm

I really dont think these guys can work in with FAR :wtf: that's how they got here dont you think :roll:

I've seen how range managers go weak in the knees because they were getting a visit :crazy:
although they full well know everything is the way it is supposed to be :roll:
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