fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fund

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fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fund

Post by marksman » 17 Sep 2019, 7:08 pm

“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 17 Sep 2019, 8:05 pm

I do think he is not telling all the facts. There are very clear guidelines in the ACT and Regulations and then further into it when you are shooting on a Range exactly how and to what standard the range will be certified. It takes into account the calibres of rifles to be fired, the type of target, the SSR's Standard Shooting Rules for the class of competition that you are either training for or competing in. Back to targets Paper/electronic or Steel. Then it comes down to the safety templates that take into account all the input data including geography of your range. The back drop for instance is it a big hill 100m high or is it only 20ft high perhaps the use of a baffle can be used. angles from the point of fire and distances that need to be in the safety zone. Ricochet assessment and angles and distances in those directions in they safety zone.

I think you will find that he was missing all of this preliminary certification so it is very hard for any sporting association to go in an bat for him. It is work due diligence that should have been done before starting.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 17 Sep 2019, 8:20 pm

yeap similar sentiment, when you put yourself out there then regulations and certification comes into play.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Sep 2019, 8:36 pm

Donated.
I’ve read about this place and honestly contemplated a trip / course myself.
I doubt that dollar one would have been spent on building a range like this - without due legal consideration / stipulated parameters, like others might be insinuating.
The SSAA article reads very well and promotes the place as extremely safe and very well run.

There are a number of ranges around that are struggling at the moment - many because of bull dust red tape and I for one, believe the owner of 365, that the NSW registry are going over board in an attempt to shut this business down - probably from pollitixal pressure...if they can do it to this one, then watch the naysayers come out when their local range is being closed due to the fact they can’t meet some ludicrous made up xxx Klm ricochet zone...
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 17 Sep 2019, 8:40 pm

there seems to be a lot of misinformation about this so I am putting up what 365 precision train put on there faceache page so we all can see what they say
myself I have donated because I believe this should have its chance in court to be decided instead of the media
I also believe that what he says is possible :drinks:

"The Anti Shooting Agenda from our Government has finally taken its toll.

365 can no longer operate on our range.

The NSW FAR has imposed so many restrictions on the range we operate from that it has ended our business from operating in NSW, so many bulls**t rules that seem to be personal opinion and not legislation.

We can no longer shoot steel plates even though we and the range has been approved to shoot steel for many years, this is coming from the range inspector that previously told me that every rifle that he has seen our students use are “sniper rifles” and that no civilian should be aloud to own them.
The range trace approval has always been max cal 8mm, Max Muzzle velocity 4000fps and max energy 4400 ft,lbs. Now they are saying we cannot shoot anything bigger then .308 ? Making up legislation on the spot.

Even though we were shooting steel and approved to do so we could not use steel posts to hold the targets, basically the range has been restricted to barley shooting paper.

The Range is situated on a family farm, the range owners are also farmers. The range was a small side business to try and help them through rough times, the range fees from 365 and two local clubs is what helped these guys out in these terrible times... the FAR pretty much laughed in the faces of us all and the farmers who are struggling so badly they cannot feed stock. This is how they treat them.

I personally believe that after many attempts from the FAR of shutting down 365 that they were never successful of doing that they have resorted to attacking the range in a way to do so.
I believe if this was taken to court half or most of these so called rules would not stand up, unfortunately the range owners cannot afford to fight them, I also spent a lot of money previously going through their hoops to stay open.
Currently they have succeeded as shutting us down in NSW, what I don’t understand is I see pictures from other ranges not to far away doing things that we have been told cannot be done.
I know first hand the FAR does not like shooters, does not like long range shooting and does not like anyone learning how to shoot long range. As far as I’m concerned they want to shutdown everyone, next thing for shooters is big cals are going to be banned. Then smaller cals, bolt action rifles will be banned then we will be left with nothing.

As a Aussie veteran I invested a good chunk of my money I earn’t on deployment into starting this business, money that I new was going to be long term in being profitable. The NSW Firearms Registry has destroyed that and I have just lost all of it, from the first year we started we became an easy target for them. They do not support veterans in any way at all and any comment thrown at them, a bulls**t response “public safety” comes up.

Thanks NSW Firearms Registry, not only did you just rob a Veteran of his savings and caused huge financial hardship for myself and my family but you also just destroyed any financial help for the poor farmers trying to survive in this drought.

Where we go one, we go all."
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 17 Sep 2019, 9:38 pm

I know things dont always happen very quickly after the initial processing and debating ect but he hasnt posted anything in nearly a month re updates.

I will be shooting 1000 yrds this weekend on a certified range one of several in Victoria. A range that is certified under a "classification" Class which is under the NRAA banner and they have been around for a long time checked and certified regularly. No steel is allowed down range using this safety template. Our 600yrd range is being re evaluated at the moment as the secretary I am involved a fair bit in the process so far it all seems straight forward. Requests for information and an inspection more information and final inspections. A little more involved this time as we have built a new clubhouse, Still works going on ect. I don't believe the moving goal posts part of the story. In fact I don't believe he ever had the range certified for professional use.

Making up rules and regulations is never going to go well for Police they don't do it in the mainstream as they are going to get reamed by their superiors for making them look bad when they get found out. Imagine the media if the police were in the wrong and this guy has been sent bankrupt and farmers are starving even though it is guns it wont go well for them.

There are several long range gun ranges not far from the center of Sydney one with a walking path through the back of it. It doesn't get closed down.There is more than one side to this story.

There are different rules interstate so I make no comment regarding the NSW private property situation. In Victoria you can target shoot on private property if that is a genuine reason on your license. less than 5 people for no more than 3 hours well away from neighbors or roads or ring you local DFO in advance for approval. Subject to complaints from neigbours. This is not a certified range situation.

The Regulations for NSW can be found here.
NSW
Firearms and Weapons Legislation Amendment Act 2017 No 26 https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/2017/26 4
REGULATIONS https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/vi ... g/2017/442 2
Firearms Transportation Fact Sheet
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... _Sheet.pdf 2


Reference
Conduct of sport or target shooting activity on private property (1) For the purposes of items 1(5A), 2(2)(c) and 4(2A) of Schedule 2 to the Act, the following provisions apply to the carrying out or conducting of an activity— (a) if— (i) more than 5 persons take part in the activity; and (ii) the activity is carried on continuously for more than 3 hours— a member of the police force, at the police station which is open and which is reasonably believed to be nearest to the activity, must have been notified before the activity takes place, that the activity is to take place; (b) a person taking part in the activity must not discharge a rifle in the course of the activity unless it is discharged at a target which has in place, within 20 metres behind it, a backstop which is capable of stopping any projectile which passes through or beyond the target; (c) a person taking part in the activity must not discharge a firearm in the course of the activity within— (i) 250 metres of a dwelling, being a dwelling which is not on the land on which the activity takes place, unless permission has been granted by the occupier of the land on which the dwelling is situated; or (ii) 100 metres of a public road
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Stix » 17 Sep 2019, 10:37 pm

Hey sungazer,
Im really tired so maybe i havnt understood you correctly, but you sound like you're not supportive of them looking for funding to fight this...
Is this right or have i missed something...?
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 17 Sep 2019, 10:56 pm

I would say I am sitting on the fence. I dont know for sure the facts. I have heard from some people in the know that it was not all cosher from the beginning. Not sure how I feel about supporting someone that is not giving me the full story. In fact may have made some good coin by cutting some corners.

I think I would have to say in general I am not supportive of this case.

If it was a registered club or a range operated and certified by one of the Sporting Associations I would be completely behind it.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by No1_49er » 17 Sep 2019, 11:15 pm

Although the thread has now been closed (locked) it might be worth your while to check out what has been said on another forum.
It really is a case of needing to know ALL of the facts.
https://ozgunlobby.com/t/gofundme-365-p ... -fund/1754
Just sayin'
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Stix » 17 Sep 2019, 11:48 pm

Ok fair enough...
I dont have time to educate mysrlf on it...& no matter if i did, i (& most if not all of us) wont get all the detsils from both sides anyway way...

I just think its wise to not get sucked into "gossip", no matter who you heard it from...but dont get me wrong...for sure take it onboard & filter it accordingly, but dont get sucked in...

I also think, that because of these reasons, it probably deserves its day in court...that is what the court system is for after all...an "unbias" (lol) judgement...
That way if rules have been broken, & i mean on both sides, then those parties should be held accountable for their wrong doings....
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 1:25 am

sungazer wrote:I know things dont always happen very quickly after the initial processing and debating ect but he hasnt posted anything in nearly a month re updates.

I will be shooting 1000 yrds this weekend on a certified range one of several in Victoria. A range that is certified under a "classification" Class which is under the NRAA banner and they have been around for a long time checked and certified regularly. No steel is allowed down range using this safety template. Our 600yrd range is being re evaluated at the moment as the secretary I am involved a fair bit in the process so far it all seems straight forward. Requests for information and an inspection more information and final inspections. A little more involved this time as we have built a new clubhouse, Still works going on ect. I don't believe the moving goal posts part of the story. In fact I don't believe he ever had the range certified for professional use.

Making up rules and regulations is never going to go well for Police they don't do it in the mainstream as they are going to get reamed by their superiors for making them look bad when they get found out. Imagine the media if the police were in the wrong and this guy has been sent bankrupt and farmers are starving even though it is guns it wont go well for them.

There are several long range gun ranges not far from the center of Sydney one with a walking path through the back of it. It doesn't get closed down.There is more than one side to this story.

There are different rules interstate so I make no comment regarding the NSW private property situation. In Victoria you can target shoot on private property if that is a genuine reason on your license. less than 5 people for no more than 3 hours well away from neighbors or roads or ring you local DFO in advance for approval. Subject to complaints from neigbours. This is not a certified range situation.

The Regulations for NSW can be found here.
NSW
Firearms and Weapons Legislation Amendment Act 2017 No 26 https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/2017/26 4
REGULATIONS https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/vi ... g/2017/442 2
Firearms Transportation Fact Sheet
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... _Sheet.pdf 2


Reference
Conduct of sport or target shooting activity on private property (1) For the purposes of items 1(5A), 2(2)(c) and 4(2A) of Schedule 2 to the Act, the following provisions apply to the carrying out or conducting of an activity— (a) if— (i) more than 5 persons take part in the activity; and (ii) the activity is carried on continuously for more than 3 hours— a member of the police force, at the police station which is open and which is reasonably believed to be nearest to the activity, must have been notified before the activity takes place, that the activity is to take place; (b) a person taking part in the activity must not discharge a rifle in the course of the activity unless it is discharged at a target which has in place, within 20 metres behind it, a backstop which is capable of stopping any projectile which passes through or beyond the target; (c) a person taking part in the activity must not discharge a firearm in the course of the activity within— (i) 250 metres of a dwelling, being a dwelling which is not on the land on which the activity takes place, unless permission has been granted by the occupier of the land on which the dwelling is situated; or (ii) 100 metres of a public road


So I am clear on this - you don’t believe this guy (365) is telling the truth about the NSW FAR, making up rules/regs etc to close him down...but you do believe the FAR etc would not do anything to bankrupt a farmer, would be concerned about their position if this came out in public/court, and their superiors (FAR and police) would ream them for taking this position?

You do realise, that In going to court, there is a 100% chance, that the detail on his FB page and go fund me page, pertaining to this issue will be scrutinised by every NSW FAR / police lawyer, and anything that has been said, that can be proven or twisted to be a mistruth will severely impede 365’s chances? Now further consider - there is little chance that what has been posted, hasn’t already been ratified by 365 lawyers and well...
Further consider...one might suspect
that highly trained elite veterans would know and understand basic legal requirements around very simple range guidelines? And what it might mean to not follow procedure?
You don’t reckon Alarm bells might be ringing for the owner / certification position, if his business was reviewed in detail by a national publication with 200k readers, if he wasn’t certified appropriately? My limited understanding is that these guys were affiliated with various firearm bodies (SSAA) but due to ? Decided to align themselves with others (ssfp, etc) but this does not mean they aren’t certified or following said regulations - they more than likely got sick of the bulldust that accompanies some affiliates. It’s interesting to note that zero safety concerns were raised by the SSAA affiliate publication after attendance, nor were any safety issues or concerns raised by a number of previously attending NSW police tactical members...

On the other side...Do we have historical evidence of FAR tactics similar to what has been described by 365...yep. Do we have a country’s federal police force exaggerating firearm confiscations for their own gain?yep. Do we have an anti firearm culture, Yep.
is it possible that the govt simply isn’t happy that highly trained veterans are passing on expensive and detailed knowledge that the govt taught them ? Yep.,.yep...etc etc etc.

Think I’ll take 365’s current open position over undisclosed rumour and innuendo - hope they get their day in court...
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Stix » 18 Sep 2019, 6:49 am

No1_49er wrote:Although the thread has now been closed (locked) it might be worth your while to check out what has been said on another forum.
It really is a case of needing to know ALL of the facts.
https://ozgunlobby.com/t/gofundme-365-p ... -fund/1754
Just sayin'
No, I don't have any irons in this fire.

Hi 49er..(or any others)...Do you know why JS hss locked off that thread...?
Seems strange to me that a discussion about a shooting range has been shut down on a social shooting forum... :unknown:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 18 Sep 2019, 7:19 am

Stix the thread went off track and was renamed into SSAA and other sporting bodies as it became more about the SSAA than 365
https://ozgunlobby.com/t/running-though ... ns/1784/24

Tassie ".but you do believe the FAR etc would not do anything to bankrupt a farmer, " No what I meant was in the current climate with Farmers doing it so tuff is that if it came out that this had occurred due to over exuberant, bulling or over policing that the Police would cop it in the media to the point that I think you would have a Premier being asked questions on the TV about how and why and what was going to be done to fix it.

I don't believe he was operating under the umbrella structure of the SSAA or NSWRA or any other sporting association as listed in the approved associations which a club must belong to, to target shoot on an approved range in NSW as per the regulations.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 18 Sep 2019, 7:51 am

Hey tassie,

I think the OP was referring if an individual FAR officer has made a snap biased judgment, the chances are that the media will have a field day and make the bosses look bad.

Secondly saying a highly trained sniper an expert in firearm laws and especially relating to the subsections regarding ranges.. i think that's rather putting too much confidence of the skills level of a guy. I have spoken to aquaintances who are active vicpol and if i have any firearm related question they honestly tell me they don't have much idea and don't hold them to it, and best to call the LRD.

I saw this a while ago, i was going to post it up here... but after reading his appeal something didn't feel right, i too agree we are not getting the whole story. So i didn't post it here... giving a donation is upto you. Then i saw the posts on the other forum, and that confirmed my decision not to post it here. but this doesn't look like about the poor farmer doing it tough during drought...but a person trying to run a business.

I have seen a few people at the range that go fully hectic when the RO tell him about breaking a range rule (almost feel hes like that).
Last edited by Sergeant Hartman on 18 Sep 2019, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 18 Sep 2019, 8:18 am

this country full of veterans and struggling farms so throwing that into the argument does him no favourand there is plenty of space and ranges to enjoy long range hunting, I doubt we have all the facts

What do his neighbours think of it ?

We have rules and regulations in place for a variety of safety reason, FAR of course can and will make decision that make no sense when range templates are ignored or councils allow developments that then down the the track infringe on the template, I know of 2 ranges that have been restricted in the last year because of this.

Is it worth funding this bloke and his business ?? is he giving shooting a good name ? too many unanswered question for me, flame away
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by bigrich » 18 Sep 2019, 8:52 am

Yeah bill and ziad, I’m inclined to be cautious about this and not take anything to be gospel. The human element is ever present, good and bad in all. Even ex military guys (some who I’ve met do have attitude and people skills problems) and cops and FAR officers aren’t immune. If there is a case of injustice, hopefully the courts will sort it. But there is a anti gun view in the general community which doesn’t help
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 9:39 am

So, my - again - limited understanding is that the range itself was built with support and guidance from SSAA and other affiliates - surely, there was appropriate accreditation’s in place if this was fact - there were also other businesses / sporting associations using the range for various comps, etc, up until a couple of years ago at least -

given that 365 does publish limits on caliber, speed, etc - does that not indicate a compliance / restriction situation?...and surely, anyone who is spending $270,000 is going to ensure appropriate protections / certifications are in place...there would be no way any insurance co would touch them without proof...

Maybe I should email the guy straight up and see if he responds.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 18 Sep 2019, 10:30 am

Doing a bit more research and having a look at some of the clubs that use that range at least today indicate a different story. The Kelvin Muzzleloading Pioneers as of the 15 of September are still advertising that they will be holding an event on this range this weekend. https://www.facebook.com/groups/734535853292033/
The Long Range Buffalo shooters have just held an event at this range 17-18 August well after 365 claims the range has been shut down and poor farmers missing out on some lease money.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1

More importantly and again interesting is the Range Certification in pdf form for you to view. It states very clearly like it should what calibers it has been approved for a list of the Authorized firearms and a list of the Authorized Events. Shooting outside these conditions is outside the range conditions, not allowed, against the law.take your pick of terminology.
Last edited by sungazer on 18 Sep 2019, 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Sep 2019, 10:42 am

Whether it is fact ,bs, not all the facts or what ever there is an element of sense here with this 365 Go fund me and that if it goes to court and we stay on principle we send a message to the FAR and associates that we will not stand and be discriminated against by their outlandish goings on against the shooting world I to don't think all the facts are on the table but does that matter the facts will come out in court and if the 365 mob have by any chance flouted the requirements of the law then it will be to their detriment as the law will close around them and on saying that they are not doing the shooters of Australia any favours and on reading the info on this post if it goes to court and is successful I think it will send a message to future range inspectors to play by the rules in future
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 10:54 am

Exactly GDB.
One of my reasons for donating is hopefully to help push back a little.
What’s to stop a range inspector / local council from reviewing their interpretation / application of the law and closing down any range ? You might think your safe because you have in place agreement xxx but what if said agreement could be revoked at anytime? Your club may/may not be in the right but how long are you closed down for, how much money is it going to Cost to straighten the matter - the govt legal team aren’t overly concerned with budgets...if they lose, they can sprout they were trying to protect the public...
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 18 Sep 2019, 11:21 am

This isn't an important test case and I can guarantee Far will come out in front.

Calibre and energy restrictions are a well know fact of life in NSW unless you have worked and sought an exemption with FAR, I know of only 1 range that allow over 50 Cal for rifle bullets on the template but happy to be corrected.

Seems to me that the best approach if setting up a range and running a commercial operation is work hand in hand with FAR, not push the limits and expect a good outcome.

Principle won't win this court case.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 18 Sep 2019, 11:30 am

If you want to change a rule or law the time to do it is beforehand when setting up. Not after you have broken the law. The way our legal system works is that a judge is there to determine if you have broken the law and decide a penalty. He has no role to make decisions on the law itself.

Money should be spent on cases where a council will reclassify land surrounding areas to a range. This is something that can be changed there is a structure to appeal these decisions.
Bill wrote:
Principle won't win this court case.
Well said Bill it wont even make any impact. The stand that people in general want to make want even be raised not a word.

The Long Range Buffalo shooters have just held an event at this range 17-18 August well after 365 claims the range has been shut down and poor farmers missing out on some lease money.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

Yeah Tassie mate that's what it needs ''push back'' this is one of the major problems shooters have no push back as a consolidated group not like the NRA in America but we can't be put in the class of the NRA due to the power of unity they have money and the second amendment but I think Australia would do fine with just unity of shooters for now we do need a force like the NRA with teeth and will fight the awkwardness of what's going on with the 365 without all the facts issue the NRA would step in decide on the facts then decide if these blokes had a case before pushing it to court then the NRA would push on further having the tools to do so, we need to built something with the unity and attitude to fight hammer and tong for shooters and the sport even if it meant paying for membership to gain money to do so. I think at present the people we have doing this for us at the moment seem to be turning it into a business in different areas rather than stopping the decline of our gun laws which ''I dread '' will eventually lead to a ban on almost all guns so the sense I see with the 365 issue if backed by all shooters this will eventually call out all this garbage being tossed on law abiding shooters deeming them all as potential felons thus needing domination by highly restrictive laws in the future
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Sep 2019, 12:15 pm

Sungazer I don't think the reason behind the principle thing was to change the law but to call out bulling by the inspectors and supposedly stupid laws as I said in a post earlier if they are hiding something then they will face the courts and will have to abide by the decision so if I read you right you don't think this should be pursued on the principle of bullying alone to gain proper treatment but to sit back and say nothing without knowing the full facts because before all the facts are out usually it's too late to counter the misjustice or condemn the guilty which ever the case may be i'm not saying the 365 are right or deserve the backing but I do believe in a fair go so if there is a chance to gain better dealings with the laws then I think there is sense to do so 365 will get their dues from FAR if they have diverted from the laws for capital gain or they will be cleared either way the court will decide so if people decide to donate on the principle of bullying as stated then so be it
Last edited by Member-Deleted on 18 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 12:46 pm

What law or rule is 365 trying to change?
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 18 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm

I don't stand for bullying quite the opposite. He should pursue any case he thinks he has on that front.
At the moment he has not said if he has been charged with anything from his comments about getting his license back I think we can pretty be sure he has not . So he is not defending himself or his business of any criminal charges. I have no concern about any money he has made from his activities and I dont think thier are any laws that have been broken on the front either. Otherwise he would be facing charges and defending himself against those.

In fact the police have probably been lenient by not charging him with anything but saying you cant do what you are doing here at the moment under the current certifications.

He should do what he should have done in the first place and get the appropriate approvals. I assume he is going to try and make a case that he should be allowed to continue as is. My opinion on that which is my personal thoughts are that it would be an extremely low chance of success.

There is an existing framework and guidelines as somebody else said it is much better to work with the Authorities than come up against them.

I think his plea to shooters has been a very emotive one with a few truths left out. But that seems to be the way it is in todays world. Interesting I watched the Fyre Fraud the other day very interesting some similarities could be drawn. The social media marketing and emotive conditioning.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Sep 2019, 1:10 pm

Yes I agree sungazer it would have been a lot easier for them if that's the case of not getting the proper paper work but the case of being bullied still stands were they actually bullied or is that just hearsay like most of it but even so it doesn't hurt to defend oneself against such things as harassment if that was the case here the call for help to fund this is legal and a donation so people can give or decline donating monies I to doubt that all fault if any sits on the inspectors back but its yet to be seen as I said the facts will come out in court and justice will be served but to just sit on our hands and not try to right things incase it were true then it would be like the past ''sit back and let somebody else do the work but by doing so we are still a scattered group
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Sep 2019, 1:24 pm

sungazer thanks for the debate it shows there are many opinions on this subject there are many facets to the story by not having all the facts but this after a court ruling if ever it could be a lesson to those not supplying the facts or a shake up in the inspection area of FAR either way hopefully things will be better Cheers
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 1:30 pm

Given the rumours and uncertainties- I’ve emailed Mitch and have asked him to review what has been said on the thread and either respond as a new member or respond to me in email and I’ll post his replies.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 18 Sep 2019, 2:51 pm

my thoughts are that given the ssaa were involved and a very big part of creating the range then they wanted to take it over the range certification would be right for what they were doing, I have not seen any evidence that the range was not allowed to have steel gongs, in fact the opposite, it was what held them up that was the problem
if anyone has this info that the range was breaching laws can you share it, might look better than internet opinions :thumbsup:

this needs to have its day in court, the outcome will have a big effect on how targets at ranges are viewed
but we all know that at least in NSW black rifles are terrorist rifles made for a sniper :lol:

I would like to correct the idea that ranges do not use steel or gongs ect as targets
just an example would be the cowboy clubs Australia wide use them from 5 meters for shooting handgun, shotgun and rifle,
they also put big steel bison targets out at long range
the fly shooters at ssaa little river have a very big steel frame that hold their targets up as well as a steel plate next to each target as a sighter
and what about metallic silhouette, hmmmm
the MRC has a big rock at 300 on the 2nd range as a sighter target, the most shot rock on the entire you yangs :lol:
ssaa little river has gongs all over the place, little river even had a ricochet incident and still has steel targets :lol:
from what I have read this guy was allowed to shoot the steel gongs but not have steel posts (star pickets ect...) to hold they targets up

anyway better to have there day in court where I'm sure it will all come out in the wash :drinks:
good luck to them :thumbsup:
Last edited by marksman on 18 Sep 2019, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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