fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fund

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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 18 Sep 2019, 10:42 am

Whether it is fact ,bs, not all the facts or what ever there is an element of sense here with this 365 Go fund me and that if it goes to court and we stay on principle we send a message to the FAR and associates that we will not stand and be discriminated against by their outlandish goings on against the shooting world I to don't think all the facts are on the table but does that matter the facts will come out in court and if the 365 mob have by any chance flouted the requirements of the law then it will be to their detriment as the law will close around them and on saying that they are not doing the shooters of Australia any favours and on reading the info on this post if it goes to court and is successful I think it will send a message to future range inspectors to play by the rules in future
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 10:54 am

Exactly GDB.
One of my reasons for donating is hopefully to help push back a little.
What’s to stop a range inspector / local council from reviewing their interpretation / application of the law and closing down any range ? You might think your safe because you have in place agreement xxx but what if said agreement could be revoked at anytime? Your club may/may not be in the right but how long are you closed down for, how much money is it going to Cost to straighten the matter - the govt legal team aren’t overly concerned with budgets...if they lose, they can sprout they were trying to protect the public...
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 18 Sep 2019, 11:21 am

This isn't an important test case and I can guarantee Far will come out in front.

Calibre and energy restrictions are a well know fact of life in NSW unless you have worked and sought an exemption with FAR, I know of only 1 range that allow over 50 Cal for rifle bullets on the template but happy to be corrected.

Seems to me that the best approach if setting up a range and running a commercial operation is work hand in hand with FAR, not push the limits and expect a good outcome.

Principle won't win this court case.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 18 Sep 2019, 11:30 am

If you want to change a rule or law the time to do it is beforehand when setting up. Not after you have broken the law. The way our legal system works is that a judge is there to determine if you have broken the law and decide a penalty. He has no role to make decisions on the law itself.

Money should be spent on cases where a council will reclassify land surrounding areas to a range. This is something that can be changed there is a structure to appeal these decisions.
Bill wrote:
Principle won't win this court case.
Well said Bill it wont even make any impact. The stand that people in general want to make want even be raised not a word.

The Long Range Buffalo shooters have just held an event at this range 17-18 August well after 365 claims the range has been shut down and poor farmers missing out on some lease money.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 18 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

Yeah Tassie mate that's what it needs ''push back'' this is one of the major problems shooters have no push back as a consolidated group not like the NRA in America but we can't be put in the class of the NRA due to the power of unity they have money and the second amendment but I think Australia would do fine with just unity of shooters for now we do need a force like the NRA with teeth and will fight the awkwardness of what's going on with the 365 without all the facts issue the NRA would step in decide on the facts then decide if these blokes had a case before pushing it to court then the NRA would push on further having the tools to do so, we need to built something with the unity and attitude to fight hammer and tong for shooters and the sport even if it meant paying for membership to gain money to do so. I think at present the people we have doing this for us at the moment seem to be turning it into a business in different areas rather than stopping the decline of our gun laws which ''I dread '' will eventually lead to a ban on almost all guns so the sense I see with the 365 issue if backed by all shooters this will eventually call out all this garbage being tossed on law abiding shooters deeming them all as potential felons thus needing domination by highly restrictive laws in the future
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 18 Sep 2019, 12:15 pm

Sungazer I don't think the reason behind the principle thing was to change the law but to call out bulling by the inspectors and supposedly stupid laws as I said in a post earlier if they are hiding something then they will face the courts and will have to abide by the decision so if I read you right you don't think this should be pursued on the principle of bullying alone to gain proper treatment but to sit back and say nothing without knowing the full facts because before all the facts are out usually it's too late to counter the misjustice or condemn the guilty which ever the case may be i'm not saying the 365 are right or deserve the backing but I do believe in a fair go so if there is a chance to gain better dealings with the laws then I think there is sense to do so 365 will get their dues from FAR if they have diverted from the laws for capital gain or they will be cleared either way the court will decide so if people decide to donate on the principle of bullying as stated then so be it
Last edited by grandadbushy on 18 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 12:46 pm

What law or rule is 365 trying to change?
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 18 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm

I don't stand for bullying quite the opposite. He should pursue any case he thinks he has on that front.
At the moment he has not said if he has been charged with anything from his comments about getting his license back I think we can pretty be sure he has not . So he is not defending himself or his business of any criminal charges. I have no concern about any money he has made from his activities and I dont think thier are any laws that have been broken on the front either. Otherwise he would be facing charges and defending himself against those.

In fact the police have probably been lenient by not charging him with anything but saying you cant do what you are doing here at the moment under the current certifications.

He should do what he should have done in the first place and get the appropriate approvals. I assume he is going to try and make a case that he should be allowed to continue as is. My opinion on that which is my personal thoughts are that it would be an extremely low chance of success.

There is an existing framework and guidelines as somebody else said it is much better to work with the Authorities than come up against them.

I think his plea to shooters has been a very emotive one with a few truths left out. But that seems to be the way it is in todays world. Interesting I watched the Fyre Fraud the other day very interesting some similarities could be drawn. The social media marketing and emotive conditioning.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 18 Sep 2019, 1:10 pm

Yes I agree sungazer it would have been a lot easier for them if that's the case of not getting the proper paper work but the case of being bullied still stands were they actually bullied or is that just hearsay like most of it but even so it doesn't hurt to defend oneself against such things as harassment if that was the case here the call for help to fund this is legal and a donation so people can give or decline donating monies I to doubt that all fault if any sits on the inspectors back but its yet to be seen as I said the facts will come out in court and justice will be served but to just sit on our hands and not try to right things incase it were true then it would be like the past ''sit back and let somebody else do the work but by doing so we are still a scattered group
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 18 Sep 2019, 1:24 pm

sungazer thanks for the debate it shows there are many opinions on this subject there are many facets to the story by not having all the facts but this after a court ruling if ever it could be a lesson to those not supplying the facts or a shake up in the inspection area of FAR either way hopefully things will be better Cheers
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 1:30 pm

Given the rumours and uncertainties- I’ve emailed Mitch and have asked him to review what has been said on the thread and either respond as a new member or respond to me in email and I’ll post his replies.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 18 Sep 2019, 2:51 pm

my thoughts are that given the ssaa were involved and a very big part of creating the range then they wanted to take it over the range certification would be right for what they were doing, I have not seen any evidence that the range was not allowed to have steel gongs, in fact the opposite, it was what held them up that was the problem
if anyone has this info that the range was breaching laws can you share it, might look better than internet opinions :thumbsup:

this needs to have its day in court, the outcome will have a big effect on how targets at ranges are viewed
but we all know that at least in NSW black rifles are terrorist rifles made for a sniper :lol:

I would like to correct the idea that ranges do not use steel or gongs ect as targets
just an example would be the cowboy clubs Australia wide use them from 5 meters for shooting handgun, shotgun and rifle,
they also put big steel bison targets out at long range
the fly shooters at ssaa little river have a very big steel frame that hold their targets up as well as a steel plate next to each target as a sighter
and what about metallic silhouette, hmmmm
the MRC has a big rock at 300 on the 2nd range as a sighter target, the most shot rock on the entire you yangs :lol:
ssaa little river has gongs all over the place, little river even had a ricochet incident and still has steel targets :lol:
from what I have read this guy was allowed to shoot the steel gongs but not have steel posts (star pickets ect...) to hold they targets up

anyway better to have there day in court where I'm sure it will all come out in the wash :drinks:
good luck to them :thumbsup:
Last edited by marksman on 18 Sep 2019, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Ziad » 18 Sep 2019, 3:09 pm

Little river doesn't like star pickets...i am unsure why though.

Lol i rather much prefer we have a discussion about the EVIL TRUMP and how America is going downhill than this.... but need another thread 4 that
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 3:11 pm

So I have received a reply from Mitch whom has reviewed the thread...

I’m just waiting on confirmation that he is happy for me to copy / paste his reply.
But rest assured that those that have posted about “certification questions” or apparent “laws being changed” - are either completely misinformed or purposefully wrong and fuelling something that more than likely benefits themselves.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 18 Sep 2019, 5:10 pm

Ziad wrote:Little river doesn't like star pickets...i am unsure why though.


:lol: because after the ricochet incident at ssaa little river there chief RO took it upon himself to decide what was dangerous or not
he decided that the angle of the star on the star pickets would cause ricochet's :roll: :lol:
his conclusion was that if you angled a steel target you could control a ricochet :lol: :lol: that was after a guy from the MRC who had worked in the armed forces with 35 years experience in tank design (trying to make projectiles deflect off the tanks) told a big room of people that you cannot control a ricochet at all and that the bullet has already ricocheted by the time the swinging steel target starts to swing, (the theory was that the swingers ssaa approved were safe) :lol:
I was in that big group of people and as soon as this very informative guy left the then ssaa operations manager told us all to disregard everything we had just heard :lol: because it was the truth and not what he wanted to hear and thats with the ssaa vic chief executive officer and facilities managers backing

"Lol i rather much prefer we have a discussion about the EVIL TRUMP and how America is going downhill than this.... but need another thread 4 that"
I'd like to get into that one too :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Ziad » 18 Sep 2019, 6:36 pm

Rotfl ahh people and their pretty politics, see that fkn everywhere.

On topic, i think Tassie has gone to have dinner, i was looking forward to the reply... but what he wrote doesn't make sense to me, so now i am ee em more excited
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 18 Sep 2019, 7:07 pm

Most range issue are related to the back drop Tassie tiger, please explain who would benefit on this forum from Mitch not being able to operate ??
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by grandadbushy » 18 Sep 2019, 7:52 pm

FAR BIll :thumbsup: :lol: :lol: :sarcasm: I bet they watch this forum :thumbsup: but I have no facts on that just hear say :thumbsup: :wtf:
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