National Shooting Council Stops Bending Over

[AussieCapitalist]

The National Shooting Council have filed court cases in QLD,WA and VIC. The one in WA is for licence rejections due to the China virus and the QLD and VIC ones are for the dealer restrictions. Other organisations are taking your money and laughing in your face as they do nothing but send a few letters and social media posts. The time for talk is over and the time for legal action is now. All that matters is lawful action. If we lose this case we can know we tried our best and we will just keep taking them to court at every opportunity. Being a lawful firearm owner in this country is hard and has gotten harder but please it is time for everybody to stop bending over and start doing the bending(lawfully speaking).

Here is their website and if you can afford it please join and help the fight for our sport.

https://nationalshooting.org.au/

[TassieTiger]

Opened link - went to become member and clicked on link, doesn’t work. Went to drop down box - link was also there thank goodness - so opened that and...sat there for 3 mins doing nothing - closed site and gave up. It’s a conspiracy I tell ya!

[1Fatman]

NSC launches legal action in WA and Qld


THE GUN SHOP FIGHT: The NSC has now filed legal proceedings in Western Australia and Queensland, adding to the action it is taking in Victoria to fight the restrictions that those states imposed on shooters.
That brings the number of actions we have filed to date to three - with the possibility of two more actions starting in the next few days.
The proceedings in WA (in the WA State Administrative Tribunal) relate to the rejection of licence applications while the one in Queensland (in the Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal) takes the closure of gun shops in that state head-on.
That means we are now leading legal actions in each of the states that have targetted shooters for political reasons.
Have you had your licence rejected in WA? Or do you run a gun shop in Vic or Qld?
If you have had had your licence application in WA declined because of COVID-19, or if you run a gun shop in Victoria or Queensland, then help yourself by becoming part of our action NOW.
To do this, just drop us an email at admin@nationalshooting.org.au.
Our actions don't yet cover the closure of gun shops in WA, but we are working on it. If you run a gun shop in WA, drop us a line so we can let you know if we do start another action in WA.


We write to Chief Medical Officer on gun bans


SCIENCE was never the strong point of those who regulate us, so we thought we'd test some of the logic about the current ban on hunting in Victoria (while relaxing the rules around real estate inspections), and also the health risks about gun shops that has resulted in heavy restrictions on their trade in WA, Qld and Victoria.

After all, what is the science around the risk of hunting?

Why are gun shops so risky?

Earlier this week, the NSC wrote to the face we all now know, Professor Brendan Murphy, with four questions.

Depending on what comes back, we're hoping that his advice will help convince our governments to back down on the stances they have made. At the very least, his response could prove that the responses have been political rather than based on science.

Here are the questions we put to him:

1. Police forces usually conduct inspections of gun safes when approving shooters’ licences. Is it appropriate for police forces to conduct both ‘routine’ inspections and random inspections at this time?

2. Hunting has been banned in Victoria to prevent the spread of the virus. Hunting, like fishing, running and cycling, is often a solo activity. Where it is a solo activity, is it appropriate to have banned it? Or necessary to?

3. Three states have suspended all transactions involving firearms and ammunition to recreational shooters. Are these suspensions appropriate or necessary? Specifically, some states point to a possible danger from increased family pressures: do you believe this is appropriate having regard to any available evidence?

4. Have you expressed any views relating to the possession or use of firearms during the pandemic that justifies any specific measures beyond the social distancing measures required of the broader community?
Click here to see our letter.

[No1Mk3]

Perhaps Victoria could be asked to justify why, on claimed health grounds, an ONLINE auction was banned from going ahead? Ebay isn't banned, nor any other online auction I know of so why was Australian Fine Arms Auction forced to cancel? Every bidder would be aware that they couldn't pick up their purchases until after the Gumbiment lifted restrictions on permit being issued so what was their reasoning? Join up folks, it's only $35 or $25 for pensioners, Cheers.

[poid]

I like the action being taken, but I don't like the secrecy around who is running it.

[Aliqua]

The concept of slowing down gun sales and ammunition is one that I stand for and while my first firearm was purchased in full and PTA was approved if I wasnt allowed to collect I didnt mind - I understood the bigger picture around community safety - given the fact that everyone who already had a gun could keep it, but they were stopping potential illigitment purchases. I don't need to explain my experience or why I have knowledge in this area but their call was valid.

I too understand closing ranges (groups of people coming together) and when you look at what defines a sporting event in legislation, ranges are like football or golf (for example). They cant rewrite all the various legislations to simply allow a couple of industries exemptions (I bet the fishing and football and golf forums are having the same discussions).

After saying that, I didnt believe that a ban on fishing and hunting was appropriate especially as others have said it is something you might do on your own, or possibly with members of your house hold family - not to mention school holidays are on and some families like to do these activities together. The only issue was the fact that so many people were not working and/or working from home and children were home, so popular places would collect a variety of people - of which it would he hard to police/control and prevent the spread.

These drastic changes have seen us go from 100's of new infections a day to less than 10... I'd much rather be in this position than one such as Italy, Spain or the USA.

[TassieTiger]

Please elaborate on how - stopping gun sales due to CV - they were preventing illegal gun sales?

[AussieCapitalist]

Cool attitude mate. Do you get a boner when you tick 1 for the greens?

I play this song in your honour mate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulPgWVC08KI

[Oldbloke]

This link should work

Blog | National Shooting Council
https://nationalshooting.org.au/blog?bl ... =gun+shops

[Sergeant Hartman]

What do you mean shipping illegitimate purchases... you implying gunshops were seeking to non licensed people? Or directly to criminals?

[Stix]

The concept of slowing down gun sales and ammunition is one that I stand for and while my first firearm was purchased in full and PTA was approved if I wasnt allowed to collect I didnt mind - I understood the bigger picture around community safety - given the fact that everyone who already had a gun could keep it, but they were stopping potential illigitment purchases. I don't need to explain my experience or why I have knowledge in this area but their call was valid.

I too understand closing ranges (groups of people coming together) and when you look at what defines a sporting event in legislation, ranges are like football or golf (for example). They cant rewrite all the various legislations to simply allow a couple of industries exemptions (I bet the fishing and football and golf forums are having the same discussions).

After saying that, I didnt believe that a ban on fishing and hunting was appropriate especially as others have said it is something you might do on your own, or possibly with members of your house hold family - not to mention school holidays are on and some families like to do these activities together. The only issue was the fact that so many people were not working and/or working from home and children were home, so popular places would collect a variety of people - of which it would he hard to police/control and prevent the spread.

These drastic changes have seen us go from 100's of new infections a day to less than 10... I'd much rather be in this position than one such as Italy, Spain or the USA.

With respect mate, id like to know why you believe what youve written in your first paragraph.

Reason being, in saying that, you are saying that all the "fit & proper person" checks that all firearm governing authorities do around the country, or the very least in your area, are of no value...its as simple as that to my mind...
You are either a fit & proper person for owning & handling firearms, or you are not fit...a mutated version of a flu virus has no direct effect on the police check system, just as another variant opf the Calici virus being released doesnt.
Nor does this virus suddenly open up gun safes to random dangerous people roaming in public...
If anything, with more people being at home, their firearms are safer while being in constant direct vicinity & control of them...

I see no reason how you can justifiably label me as not being trustworthy of buying another gun or more ammo componentry...if i am (i speak "I"/Me" but mean any LAFO) not to be trusted with a new firearm, sure ly by that logic im not to be trusetd with the ones i already have, in which case the entire system of fit *& proper is in its own right, self defeating.

Im not trying to be argumentative...but i do want to know what makes you think you can label me, & every other PROVEN good citizen, suddenly be labeled as not worthy of firearm ownership & being a danger to society...
It just seems so bigoted...how is it ok to say that, yet not accuse every homosexual of being disease spreading filth...
from the points of public safety, stereo typing & plain bigatory, i see no difference...

[Oldbloke]

The concept of slowing down gun sales and ammunition is one that I stand for and while my first firearm was purchased in full and PTA was approved if I wasnt allowed to collect I didnt mind - I understood the bigger picture around community safety - given the fact that everyone who already had a gun could keep it, but they were stopping potential illigitment purchases. I don't need to explain my experience or why I have knowledge in this area but their call was valid.

I too understand closing ranges (groups of people coming together) and when you look at what defines a sporting event in legislation, ranges are like football or golf (for example). They cant rewrite all the various legislations to simply allow a couple of industries exemptions (I bet the fishing and football and golf forums are having the same discussions).

After saying that, I didnt believe that a ban on fishing and hunting was appropriate especially as others have said it is something you might do on your own, or possibly with members of your house hold family - not to mention school holidays are on and some families like to do these activities together. The only issue was the fact that so many people were not working and/or working from home and children were home, so popular places would collect a variety of people - of which it would he hard to police/control and prevent the spread.

These drastic changes have seen us go from 100's of new infections a day to less than 10... I'd much rather be in this position than one such as Italy, Spain or the USA.

Mate, I dont want idiots owning firearms either. I value my family. And i think we all understsnd the risk to society from CV. But please explain to me if gun shops were closed due to CV,.

1. Why did I see footballers training side by side tonight on the news?
2. Why are they talking about NRL having a season?
3. Why was my daughter forced to work shoulder to shoulder at self serve registers to with customers at kmart?
Oops and no sanitisor or gloves or provided. Why,,..answer,$$$$$

So 1 to 3 is ok but i cant go on my own on a farm and shoot a fox or sit on a pier on my own or at least 1.5 meters from anyone fishing?

I went to the LGS a couple of days before the closure, no entry without using sanitisor, only 3 customers at a time. Kmart, packing them in like sardines.

Lets face it if anyone wanted to kill their wife they only need 1 bullet and 1 applicator, or a knife, or an axe, and so the list goes on

What has people pissed off is there is no sensible or scientific reason and the very obvious insonsistancies. Its clearly and simply harrassment or if you like discrimination.

P,S. Try not selling alcohol. Isnt that in part at least involved in about 51% of all domestic violence incidents. Truck loads of grog is being spld and on the news today 70% are drinking more now. Or is there more votes and $ in that one?????

PPS. Regarding exemptions . The actual direction if full of exemptions . Take the trouble to read it.

..

[pomemax]

These drastic changes have seen us go from 100's of new infections a day to less than 10... I'd much rather be in this position than one such as Italy.
Nice sentiment if only it were true 21 yesterday and 58 today
. In NSW Fishing is OK as is Golf and gun shops are still open
given the fact that everyone who already had a gun could keep it,. are we on the same wavelength here are you saying that they should have confiscated all firearms?
because that is how that comes across. I do hope I am wrong

[Grandadbushy]

Well Aliqua there are enough guns out there to do lethal amounts of damage to people but lets not loose sight of the fact that we gun owners aren't interested in harming any person what so ever so by stating that they stopped all the gun paper work and closing down the shops for safety was nothing more than a bastard act on their part and a move to further restrict gun laws and have more control on the out come by using a virus to cover the real reason for doing so, you can believe what you want but what ever way you look at it it doesn't add up . It doesn't matter who's at the helm ssaa, shooters union, national shooters who ever , we won't see change in favour of shooters until as was said previously ''We work as one '' and stop trying to score points for themselves the law will slowly pick us off one law at a time

[Oldbloke]

I rekon just delete 5 (3). Lol. That would seem sensible to me.

Screenshot_20200418-011247_Drive.jpg (623.96 KiB) Viewed 5860 times

Its ready to download here.

Department of Health and Human Services Victoria | Directions issued by the Chief Health Officer
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/state-emergency

[womble]

I like the action being taken, but I don't like the secrecy around who is running it.

Agreed.
Although i thank them for their efforts and hope they keep up the good work.
If they can be connected to any group too far left or right of centre, just won’t get the numbers.
If the media got even a sniff of a right wing elitist or white nationalist connection it won’t fly.
If the vast majority of Lfaos who are simply blue collar working poor class from diverse backgrounds smelt that same odour, it will never fly.
If it ever tries to model itself on an NRA template, aussies just won’t swallow it. We have our own f***ing heritage. We’re a nation of outcasts, not a nation of pioneers.
That’s just the point of view of Joe Average majority. He likes simple. He’s apathetic. He likes transparency.
If they can deal with that , full house.

But apart from that. Awesome.
Money well spent.

[Member-Deleted]

We write to Chief Medical Officer on gun bans
After all, what is the science around the risk of hunting?
Why are gun shops so risky?

Earlier this week, the NSC wrote to the face we all now know, Professor Brendan Murphy, with four questions.

Depending on what comes back, we're hoping that his advice will help convince our governments to back down on the stances they have made. At the very least, his response could prove that the responses have been political rather than based on science.

Here are the questions we put to him:

1. Police forces usually conduct inspections of gun safes when approving shooters’ licences. Is it appropriate for police forces to conduct both ‘routine’ inspections and random inspections at this time?

2. Hunting has been banned in Victoria to prevent the spread of the virus. Hunting, like fishing, running and cycling, is often a solo activity. Where it is a solo activity, is it appropriate to have banned it? Or necessary to?

3. Three states have suspended all transactions involving firearms and ammunition to recreational shooters. Are these suspensions appropriate or necessary? Specifically, some states point to a possible danger from increased family pressures: do you believe this is appropriate having regard to any available evidence?

4. Have you expressed any views relating to the possession or use of firearms during the pandemic that justifies any specific measures beyond the social distancing measures required of the broader community?
Click here to see our letter.

Mate, A+ for effort, C- for execution. Asking a pollie or a bureaucrat "is it appropriate...?" is too easily deflected. They love living in the ambiguity of that sort of language. If you receive any written response at all, I'll bet you it's along the lines of "yes, having given consideration to all of the relevant interests, we formed the view that it is appropriate at this time". It's an opinion that something is "appropriate" without any need to justify it or provide evidence.

If you have a second chop at it, just run with variations of the first few questions in your post i.e. what is the science around the risk of hunting? Why are gun shops so risky? Ask for the evidence and paint him into a corner, e.g.

2. Hunting, like fishing, running and cycling, is often a solo activity. Where it is a solo activity, what evidence is there that it presents any greater risk of transmission of COVID19 than exercising in public spaces [which is allowed]?

3. Three states have suspended all transactions involving firearms and ammunition [i]to [i]lawfully licensed recreational shooters. What evidence is there that retail shops making sales of firearms or ammunition to lawfully licensed recreational shooters presents any greater risk of transmission of COVID19 than other types of retail stores that have been allowed to remain open and trading to the public?[/i][/i]

3A. Specifically, some states point to a possible danger from increased family pressures. Why then are sales of alcohol not also suspended, having regards to the wealth of available evidence of the relationship between alcohol consumption and violence, including family violence?

Again though, thanks for tying to keep them accountable

[trekin]

The National Shooting Council have filed court cases in QLD,WA and VIC. The one in WA is for licence rejections due to the China virus and the QLD and VIC ones are for the dealer restrictions. Other organisations are taking your money and laughing in your face as they do nothing but send a few letters and social media posts. The time for talk is over and the time for legal action is now. All that matters is lawful action. If we lose this case we can know we tried our best and we will just keep taking them to court at every opportunity. Being a lawful firearm owner in this country is hard and has gotten harder but please it is time for everybody to stop bending over and start doing the bending(lawfully speaking).

Here is their website and if you can afford it please join and help the fight for our sport.

https://nationalshooting.org.au/

As a QLDer thanks for the help in fighting these restrictions.
HOWEVER, you are doing the shooting community, here, and in general, a disservice and further fractioning the community by implying that your organisation is the only one doing anything. SUQ and a couple of hundred thousand LAFO would take umbrage at that statement, as working together we have rolled back 70% of the restrictions up here.

[bigrich]

The concept of slowing down gun sales and ammunition is one that I stand for and while my first firearm was purchased in full and PTA was approved if I wasnt allowed to collect I didnt mind - I understood the bigger picture around community safety - given the fact that everyone who already had a gun could keep it, but they were stopping potential illigitment purchases. I don't need to explain my experience or why I have knowledge in this area but their call was valid.

I too understand closing ranges (groups of people coming together) and when you look at what defines a sporting event in legislation, ranges are like football or golf (for example). They cant rewrite all the various legislations to simply allow a couple of industries exemptions (I bet the fishing and football and golf forums are having the same discussions).

After saying that, I didnt believe that a ban on fishing and hunting was appropriate especially as others have said it is something you might do on your own, or possibly with members of your house hold family - not to mention school holidays are on and some families like to do these activities together. The only issue was the fact that so many people were not working and/or working from home and children were home, so popular places would collect a variety of people - of which it would he hard to police/control and prevent the spread.

These drastic changes have seen us go from 100's of new infections a day to less than 10... I'd much rather be in this position than one such as Italy, Spain or the USA.

in reference to the last sentence of the first paragraph, i would like you to explain your knowledge and experience please
some of the rules and restrictions are a bit of hit and miss, and should be repealed if they are shown to be flawed. i saw sam newman on channel 9 this morning, going off about victoria banning golf . he called it pollitical bullying, and politicians ( andrews) being too proud to admit their wrong.
in comparison , at least the laws have been relaxed for rural shooters and farmers to get their supplies . a big thanks to those that lobbied politicians about this
rifle ranges may be closed for a little while yet , although i don't see why as shooting benches can be moved the required distance apart and we're already successfully practicing social distancing . range shooting is not a contact sport after all..... maybe my club membership money would be better spent with another club that will work harder at lobbying for me ,( shooters union), especially in light of what has happened with a takeover of my local club by dishonorable people from the state branch

[Grandadbushy]

Trekin +1

[trekin]

Trekin +1

Welcome back brother, all good up your way?

[Grandadbushy]

Yeah mate as good as can be expected at this stage

[Aliqua]

I want to firstly apologise for my comment in its delivery. In my rush last night before going to bed, I think my comments were a little vague and I want to take this opportunity to provide a little more information to each of your responses. Firstly, I joined this forum because I believed (and still do) that the community was an educated and well versed group of people - and I have learnt a lot and hope to continue to be able too. In addition, I'm not someone who wished to antagonise anyone or start arguments, but healthy and educated discussion - thus I wanted to reply to each persons responses in the hope that some clarity would not endanger any standing that I'm hoping to develop over my time on this forum.

Stix: None of my comments were directed at anyone person in particular - they were general in nature and that was wrong, and I apologise if you felt that I was attacking or directing my comments to the GOOD, and law abiding citizens (and that extends to anyone who shares your views). They were directed at the very small percentage of people who may be no longer considered fit and proper due to reasons presented in the next paragraphs. Again, to you and the community, I am sorry.

We have never been in the same situation that we are currently facing now as a community. We are seeing people panic buying goods from supermarkets for a variety of different reasons - from sourcing goods to sell at premium, to send overseas, or for the few, to hold on to items in the case that the economic situation changes and we need these products to ensure a sense of normality and safety until the situation settles. I made a statement in my opening paragraph about 'firearms and ammunition' and I would like to redact that and say that ammunition should still be readily available as you have to already have a licence before you can purchase it and many people will still go hunting for a source of exercise or hunting for meats to either sell or consume. Again, I am sorry for not being more clear in my comments.

Another person asked me to share my past and while I prefer not too, I will for the purpose of this discussion. I was in law enforcement for over 10 years, and we had this saying that we spent 95% of our time with 5% of the population. Simply put, you would not spend much of your time with the good and law abiding citizens, but most of your time with those who are not. Thus I saw a number of people who either had prior convictions, or those who were seen as first time offenders, previously considered to be law abiding citizens, undertaking actions which were against the law - for a very basic example: you undertake a VicRoads drivers licence test which shows your understanding of the laws, yet I spent my entire day giving out tickets to people who were breaching those laws they proved that they understood. This is as simple as a speeding fine, using mobile phone or using their motor vehicle to run down and fatally injure their partners (yes, it happens).

At the time of being approved of being a 'fit and proper' person, you are thus, seen to be trustworthy and therefore approved. But in saying that, that there is a VERY SMALL percentage of people who fail to remain good, law abiding and 'fit and proper'. The department who issue our firearms licences, are also the same people who review persons who are no longer deemed to be fit & proper (for example, but not limited to persons who are convicted of a criminal act, or persons with family violence orders, just to name a couple). So please, understand that I'm not referring to all firearms owners, just those who may have been fit and proper, but for reasons unbeknownst to use, they are no longer under the eyes of the law.

Oldbloke:
Thank-you for your comments. In reply:
1. Why did I see footballers training side by side tonight on the news?
- I'm not an expert, so I can't explain but I can tell you that it is not fair.

2. Why are they talking about NRL having a season?
- I don't know why the AFL and the NRL are fighting this. If they succeed, it will set a precedence for everybody to open their sporting institutions again. I personally think they believe they are powerful enough and 'important' enough to be seen as more important than other sporting groups. I don't agree with ONE group opening, and not others.

3. Why was my daughter forced to work shoulder to shoulder at self serve registers to with customers at kmart?
- Again, I'm not an expert and not privy to the reasons why some things can be open and not others, but only provide you with another example of my disappointment in these convoluted laws/policies. I have a Harvey Norman down the road, and it's okay to have staff and customers share close proximity to each other, but next door is a carwash... If you are at a carwash by yourself, at midnight, the Police can give you a fine? I don't know what is 'essential shopping' at Harvey Norman, or K-Mart, so why can they stay open?

4. Alcohol sales - yes, alcohol is statistically a major contributor to family violence, road related injuries and/or fatalities (and not necessarily the death of the drink driver, but their victims). I'm not a drinker, so I don't want to comment and/or offend anyone on either side of the argument with my own thoughts on the matter.

Pomemax:
My statement was based on a segment I overheard on the television in passing - i believe it was only one state (irrespective, the numbers have jumped again, and I'm sorry if that comment was incorrect).

Grandadbushy:
Like I mentioned before, sorry if my comments made anyone on these forums feel that I was including them personally in this statement, but this comment was not related to EVERYONE (especially the people on this forum - I do not mean to offend anyone!), or responsible gun owners, but the VERY SMALL percentage of people who may do the wrong thing. Secondly, in Victoria we saw an almost 200% increase in PTA's, and I guess, with the additional information that was presented to the national cabinet at the time of the increase, they decided that it was best practice to put the restrictions in place as a whole, and then work forwards in the future to make allowances and exemptions.

Sergeant Hartman:
By no means was I implying gunshops were doing anything of the sorts. They are doing an incredible job under the circumstances they are facing - I cant commend them enough in their professionalism and I'm fortunate enough to be associated with my local LFD that is staying open with restricted hours to allow us to continue to purchase anything other than guns/ammunition and open for enquiries etc. I'm talking about a small percentage of people who may have licences and purchasing guns or more so ammunition for illegitimate purposes (resale at a premium in black markets etc). Again this statement was vague and I apologise for not wording my original statement in more detail.

Bigrich:
I replied to you in a previous paragraph. In addition to other parts of your comment, 'some of the rules and restrictions are a bit of hit and miss, and should be repealed if they are shown to be flawed'. I agree with you entirely. The blanket bans are a way that the govt. was able to make as many changes as they could in a short period of time, and then they SHOULD now take the time to retract some of their restrictions. One that I believe is the purchase of ammunition to those who are able to prove they shoot on properties for pest control (and are not primary industry). Or simply restrict range shooting (where social distancing may not be possible by ensuring sanitisation of benches or do on, etc).

--

I hope this has provided a little more insight for people, and at the risk of hijacking the thread, I'm sorry. I just wanted to clarify my earlier statement, and again apologise to anyone who I may have offended. One thing I have learnt here, is to take my time if I'm choosing to contribute to the conversation. I do not want to be segregated or seen as 'that guy that said that thing'. So again, I'm sorry to the members on this forum, and the GOOD and LAW ABIDING gun owners. It's a shame that we are affected by the actions of a few - and I just hope that now the restrictions have been put in place, appropriate and flexible changes can be retracted from the current restrictions.

[Grandadbushy]

Thank you Aliqua for taking the time to explain a little further and you are right to try and have as much exact information and explain it fully because some one will definitely pick up on it and take you to task. So with all that said it still leaves the fact that what the gov has done in closing down gun shops and such does not ring true to the whole reason for doing so , yes they could be doing it for illegal dealings but that would infer that gun shop owners were doing something illegal . now you talk about issuing tickets to illegal activity by drivers and rightly so but a law abiding driver is not presumed a drink driver or a speeder yet with the gun laws gun owners are being treated as potential ( should I say murders) and our guns are slowly being taken from us yet with the illegal driving only the people that actually break the law are punished .
We can say that only the people that break the gun laws get punished but we all know it flows down to the law abiding as well. Governments don't listen to stats unless it is in their favour , they don't listen to common sense debate as their agenda as I see it is to remove all guns even from the law abiding owners , they don't want to work to develop a more acceptable outcome for sport shooters and hunters . A law abiding gun owner is no more a threat to people than a law abiding road user but both have rebels and they alone should be dealt with without reprisal to lawful people and on saying that I know for sure the law makers know this but it's not the target (excuse the pun) they're aiming for . I for one would like to see more transparency from the gov when they deal with gun owners and the laws on gun issues.

[Oldbloke]

Thank you Aliqua for taking the time to explain a little further and you are right to try and have as much exact information and explain it fully because some one will definitely pick up on it and take you to task. So with all that said it still leaves the fact that what the gov has done in closing down gun shops and such does not ring true to the whole reason for doing so , yes they could be doing it for illegal dealings but that would infer that gun shop owners were doing something illegal . now you talk about issuing tickets to illegal activity by drivers and rightly so but a law abiding driver is not presumed a drink driver or a speeder yet with the gun laws gun owners are being treated as potential ( should I say murders) and our guns are slowly being taken from us yet with the illegal driving only the people that actually break the law are punished .
We can say that only the people that break the gun laws get punished but we all know it flows down to the law abiding as well. Governments don't listen to stats unless it is in their favour , they don't listen to common sense debate as their agenda as I see it is to remove all guns even from the law abiding owners , they don't want to work to develop a more acceptable outcome for sport shooters and hunters . A law abiding gun owner is no more a threat to people than a law abiding road user but both have rebels and they alone should be dealt with without reprisal to lawful people and on saying that I know for sure the law makers know this but it's not the target (excuse the pun) they're aiming for . I for one would like to see more transparency from the gov when they deal with gun owners and the laws on gun issues.

Well put GDB. Yes we are not treated the same as other sportsman and women. Reminds me of
Animal farm" "We are all equal, but some are more equal than others." I think i quoted that correctly.

Personnally i think Aliqua has tried his best to set things straight. Sounds to me he posted in a rush and didnt give it enough thought. We have all done that at some point. And im very appreciative of that effort. Lets all move on.

[trekin]

Grandadbushy:
Like I mentioned before, sorry if my comments made anyone on these forums feel that I was including them personally in this statement, but this comment was not related to EVERYONE (especially the people on this forum - I do not mean to offend anyone!), or responsible gun owners, but the VERY SMALL percentage of people who may do the wrong thing. Secondly, in Victoria we saw an almost 200% increase in PTA's, and I guess, with the additional information that was presented to the national cabinet at the time of the increase, they decided that it was best practice to put the restrictions in place as a whole, and then work forwards in the future to make allowances and exemptions.

I, and a couple of hundred thousand other QLDers await your apologies.
Also, maybe you could explain the highlighted part above, what is the additional information?, and isn't the premise of your organisation's legal action in Vic, apart from the outright lies about FO's being DV abusers, that there was nothing from the National Cabinet in relation to LGS having to be closed down?

[Aliqua]

Trekin, I've tried to explain my comments. 1. It's not "my organisation", and 2. I'm not privy to the information that was provided to national cabinet nor am I willing to make anymore assumptions or guess from here on in, especially with what may have been discussed between the state premiers and other members of the cabinet. Im not entering into the discussion anymore.

Secondly, thank-you oldbloke for your understanding.

[AussieCapitalist]

Hey Aliqua

Firearm owners are the most lawful members of society as being a fit and proper person is a condition to hold a licence. Firearm owners are the most regulated of any subgroup of society. Firearm owners have to wait months to get a licence and apply for a permit that the government issues for every purchase. Why should they be penalised yet other retail outlets are not? In a time where we need to keep the economy going why should we shut down a massive industry impacting tens of thousands of workers? Why should firearm owners have to pay the up to 30% price increase which is coming due to the strength of the dollar?

You claim to be ex "law enforcement" so you should know more than anybody that criminals do not follow the law do they? No matter what law is on your books they will disregard it. Criminals do not wait months to obtain a licence and then submit for PTA to obtain their firearms. They operate outside of the law and obtain their firearms from other means, hence the term CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trekin]

Trekin, I've tried to explain my comments. 1. It's not "my organisation", and 2. I'm not privy to the information that was provided to national cabinet nor am I willing to make anymore assumptions or guess from here on in, especially with what may have been discussed between the state premiers and other members of the cabinet. Im not entering into the discussion anymore.

Secondly, thank-you oldbloke for your understanding.

Thank you, this response explains alot.

[marksman]

personally l didn't get all bent up about it but you have to give credit where its due

Aliqua has been man enough to apologised, lMHO let it go and move on