Four Police Dead

[Grandadbushy]

Bill I only know what was shown on our local news mate and was lead to believe he had done a runner but if it happened like you say then yes I agree with you and 50min would be a long time to be standing alongside a freeway thanks for explaining that Bill just goes to show ya can't believe every thing ya hear especially when it comes from the media .Cheers

[straightshooter]

Comments on various posts so far.

If the truck driver was indeed a Sikh the he would have had with him a kirpan, a specific style of dagger or knife.
That would have triggered the terrorism fear in the culturally uninformed.

The rumour doing the rounds is that the Porsche driver, a known middle level drug entrepreneur, was stopped for a drug shakedown. The substantiation for this rumour is that it's unusual that 4 police officers would attend a simple traffic infringement unless there was a call for assistance due to violent, or possibly armed, resistance being offered. In that case there would have been a far more substantial police response.

The propagation of false or true but irrelevant information in the media about an accused is known as "poisoning the well" or more popularly trial by media.
It is extensively practised in the US and is now coming of age in Australia. It is very effective in providing comfort to the public allowing them to "know" that an accused is guilty and enjoy fulfilment and satisfaction in an eventual conviction not to mention colouring the preconceptions of potential jurors.

[AussieCapitalist]

Look maybe my theory is not correct but until proven otherwise it is just as valid as any other. Never a good idea to put ones head in the sand and not examine all possible scenarios. Melbourne had that other vehicle attack a few years ago.

In regards to a possible knife, the QLD weapons act allows carrying of a knife in public for religious purposes does VIC do the same?

[Aliqua]

A kirpan yes. A knife, no.

[AussieCapitalist]

A kirpan yes. A knife, no.

Interesting. So VIC make the distinction between knife and kirpan?

QLD allows any knife but provides an example of "a sikh carrying a knife otherwise known as a kirpan"

[Aliqua]

In VIC you cannot carry a knife anywhere unless you have a lawful reason (for business or recreation - eg: fishing, hunting, courier, etc). Offence carries 1000$ fine, or 2000$ if within a specified distance of a licensed premises. The kirpan these days is religious only and not sharpened (its blunt). If it is sharpened I BELIEVE it can be an offence as there is no NEED for it to be sharp... and usually the kirpan is hidden inside their dressings, not visible to public.

[Aliqua]

I am not sure who wrote this so can’t credit them..

The policeman stood and faced his god,
which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining just as brightly as his brass.
“Step forward now, policeman. How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To my church have you been true?”
The policeman squared his shoulders and said,
“No, I guess I ain’t,
because those of us who carry a badge can’t always be a saint.
I’ve had to work most Sundays and at times my talk is rough,
and sometimes I’ve been violent, because the streets are awfully tough.
But I never took a penny that wasn’t mine to keep…
though I worked a lot of overtime,
when the bills got to steep.
And I never passed a cry for help though at times I shook with fear,
and sometimes, God forgive me, I’ve wept unmanly tears.
I know I don’t deserve a place among the people here.
They never wanted me around except to calm their fear.
If you’ve a place for me here, lord it needn’t be so grand,
I never expected or had too much, but if you don’t … I’ll understand.”
There was silence all around the throne where the Saints had often trod.
As the policeman waited quietly for the judgement of his God.
“Step forward now, policeman.
You’ve borne your burdens well.
Come walk a beat on Heaven’s streets.
You’ve done your time in Hell”.

[Grandadbushy]

Not bad Aliqua it's very clever and reflects a lot . cheers.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Stix mate it was quite obvuis what he meant. Haf a mate who was Sikh wearing a turban got bashed after Sept11... because ppl thought he was muslim...cuz his skin color was brown.

You could be right straight, i just heard on the radio that as he was doing high speed outs SOP to call for backup if the vehicle was getting impounded.

What i don't understand is if indie guy was pulled over 40 min before the accident, why wasn't he in cuffs and in the back of the divvy van

[Grandadbushy]

Does it really matter what breed of ''termite'' he is ? My wife just read me a bit out of the news paper that his solicitor is basically saying the drugs made him do it ''WELL'' !!! FMD poor little grub 41yr old ( so I hear) and still acting like a teenager who can't make decisions for himself must have been forced to take drugs, couldn't decide for himself now his legal eagles saw a big money tree to land in ,whilst in the back of their mind they probably hope he gets his just deserts but can't say so or the money tree will be cut down these people should wake up and grow a conscience back in days gone bye he would have been publicly flogged if not hanged maybe if they had that to look forward to maybe they might start making their own decisions and good ones at that

[trekin]

Interesting. So VIC make the distinction between knife and kirpan?

QLD allows any knife but provides an example of "a sikh carrying a knife otherwise known as a kirpan"

But to be allowed to carry a Kirpan (steel sword) in observance of his faith, he must also be wearing the other four K's
Kesh (uncut hair)
Kara (a steel bracelet)
Kanga (a wooden comb)
Kaccha - also spelt, Kachh, Kachera (cotton underwear)

[AussieCapitalist]

But to be allowed to carry a Kirpan (steel sword) in observance of his faith, he must also be wearing the other four K's
Kesh (uncut hair)
Kara (a steel bracelet)
Kanga (a wooden comb)
Kaccha - also spelt, Kachh, Kachera (cotton underwear)

That's not in the act mate. Where is that from?

[Sergeant Hartman]

He's taking about his religious beliefs mate. No at required in religion.

GDB i agree with your point 100%... but over the years it appears in the eyes of the courts, dependency on drugs is a valid excuse.... ofcourse if you are sober and not on drugs or haven't had a bad upbringing or childhood the full force of the law is thrown at you... to make an example out of you.

[AussieCapitalist]

He's taking about his religious beliefs mate. No at required in religion.

GDB i agree with your point 100%... but over the years it appears in the eyes of the courts, dependency on drugs is a valid excuse.... ofcourse if you are sober and not on drugs or haven't had a bad upbringing or childhood the full force of the law is thrown at you... to make an example out of you.

I'm with you now mate. I thought he was referring to the weapons act. If only QLD law recognised the ability to carry a SLR.

[trekin]

That's not in the act mate. Where is that from?

Not everything can be learnt from Acts, Regulations or Policies by rote;

Khalsa initiation
The 5 Ks date from the creation of the Khalsa Panth by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699.
The Guru introduced them for several reasons:

Adopting these common symbols would identify members of the Khalsa
Because all members of the Khalsa wear the 5 Ks the members of the community are more strongly bound together
Each K has a particular significance

The meaning of the 5 Ks
The 5 Ks taken together symbolise that the Sikh who wears them has dedicated themselves to a life of devotion and submission to the Guru.
The 5 Ks are 5 physical symbols worn by Sikhs who have been initiated into the Khalsa.
The five Ks are:

Kesh (uncut hair)
Kara (a steel bracelet)
Kanga (a wooden comb)
Kaccha - also spelt, Kachh, Kachera (cotton underwear)
Kirpan (steel sword)

Kesh - uncut hair
Various reasons and symbolisms have been put forward for the Sikh practice of keeping hair uncut.
Throughout history hair (kesh) has been regarded as a symbol both of holiness and strength.
One's hair is part of God's creation. Keeping hair uncut indicates that one is willing to accept God's gift as God intended it.
Uncut hair symbolizes adoption of a simple life, and denial of pride in one's appearance.
Not cutting one's hair is a symbol of one's wish to move beyond concerns of the body and attain spiritual maturity.
A Sikh should only bow his head to the Guru, and not to a barber.
It is a highly visible symbol of membership of the group.
It follows the appearance of Guru Gobind Singh, founder of the Khalsa.
Sikh women are just as forbidden to cut any body hair or even trim their eyebrows, as Sikh men are forbidden to trim their beards.

Kara - a steel bracelet
A symbol of restraint and gentility.
A symbol that a Sikh is linked to the Guru.
It acts as a reminder that a Sikh should not do anything of which the Guru would not approve.
A symbol of God having no beginning or end.
A symbol of permanent bonding to the community-being a link in the chain of Khalsa Sikhs (the word for link is 'kari').
The Kara is made of steel, rather than gold or silver, because it is not an ornament.

Kanga - a wooden comb
This symbolises a clean mind and body; since it keeps the uncut hair neat and tidy.
It symbolises the importance of looking after the body which God has created. This does not conflict with the Sikh's aim to move beyond bodily concerns; since the body is one's vehicle for enlightenment one should care for it appropriately.

Kachha - special underwear
This is a pair of breeches that must not come below the knee. It was a particularly useful garment for Sikh warriors of the 18th and 19th centuries, being very suitable for warfare when riding a horse.
It's a symbol of chastity.

Kirpan - a ceremonial sword
There is no fixed style of Kirpan and it can be anything from a few inches to three feet long. It is kept in a sheath and can be worn over or under clothing.
The Kirpan can symbolise:
Spirituality
The soldier part of the Soldier-Saints
Defence of good
Defence of the weak
The struggle against injustice
A metaphor for God

For a Sikh the fact that the Guru has instructed the Sikhs to wear the 5 Ks is an entirely sufficient reason, and no more need be said.
The symbols have become greatly more powerful with each passing year of Sikh history.
Every Sikh remembers that every Sikh warrior, saint, or martyr since 1699, and every living member of the Khalsa, is united with them in having adopted the same 5 Ks.

[Sergeant Hartman]

+1

[AussieCapitalist]

Mate I am just a European white Queenslander, I don't confess to know a lot about india. The only thing I know about the sikhs is the battle of saragarhi. I love reading about a last stand.

[Bill]

The 40kmh rule was modified last year in NSW and for good reason, Hard braking was going to kill someone

It was predicted by many that it would Kill

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/no- ... 50152.html

watch the hard braking demonstrate by a B double

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/sto ... -highways/

[Sergeant Hartman]

Apart from this rule, no where in Australia is such a drastic drop in speeds done. If you are on a 100kph road, even for roadworks there is about a 0.5-1km notice with gradual saying down to 80, to 60/40kph speed limit.

While if this guy was not speeding the cops would not have pulled him over, and not be there in the first place. We would not have any loss of life, but i am sure the police union will also be thinking was the truck driver at 100% fault, or was there a small chance that the 40kph rule caused the truck driver to panic and had even a small part in this horrendous accident.

[AussieCapitalist]

I am fully convinced now it was deliberate which would make it terrorism as was my first inkling. See what the trial unfolds but looks like he is trying to get off easy and claim insanity.

https://7news.com.au/news/vic/eastern-f ... -c-1019116

[Aliqua]

Yes... a witch... Ice can do bizarre things and "make you believe anything" (doubleantendre) including the jury/judge belive your bulls**t... but something tells me his defence has assisted his decision making to take the "soft padded cell" (mental illness) defence approach... if this gets through.... I cant begin to tell you how I'll be feeling.....

[Sergeant Hartman]

I don't like the word terrorist or terrorism, esp in this case, terrorism implies that it was preplanned... This act wasn't

I do agree with aliq, the witch excuses is aiming for mental health.. then add ice... fk i do hope he rots in jail for a bloody long time.... i do recon the other driver will get more jail time... which is fkd if it did happen

[AussieCapitalist]

They raided his house and have not made public the findings. So lets see what comes out in court. This may have been an opportunity that he saw and he took to commit a terrorist act. He may have been planning an attack a few days later on ANZAC day but brought it forward because he saw a target present its self. Or he may just be a full on nutter on the crack pipe who thought satan was chasing him. We will see what happens in court. I was mocked early on in this thread but it is looking plausible now.

I don't think the Porsche bloke will get any jail. Maybe 2 years if that. So with time served he will be released after trial. Being morally guilty means nothing in regards to legality. He was speeding, left a scene of an accident and may of had drugs. So really his crimes are nothing major in regards to the law. In Australia with its soft on crime approach he will be let off easy. The lawyer will push that the jury is not impartial I would bet and try to get a judge trial.

[Aliqua]

Now its uptown the justice system. And that's was saddens me. He wont be tried by his true peers but those selected and fought over by a defence for their bullsh*t case to get him acquitted. First is the sentence... then its consecutive or concurrent... maybe nothing. Maybe 2 years. Maybe 10... not enough. Media released the porche drivers charges today (including speeds of up to 140 in 40 zones... all recorded on his phone while driving), destruction of evidence and so much more... all we can do now is hope.... that he falls on an exercise bike pole.

[Oldbloke]

Does it really matter what breed of ''termite'' he is ? My wife just read me a bit out of the news paper that his solicitor is basically saying the drugs made him do it ''WELL'' !!! FMD poor little grub 41yr old ( so I hear) and still acting like a teenager who can't make decisions for himself must have been forced to take drugs, couldn't decide for himself now his legal eagles saw a big money tree to land in ,whilst in the back of their mind they probably hope he gets his just deserts but can't say so or the money tree will be cut down these people should wake up and grow a conscience back in days gone bye he would have been publicly flogged if not hanged maybe if they had that to look forward to maybe they might start making their own decisions and good ones at that

[TassieTiger]

What makes me angry after the fact - is the lawyers and In many cases, the magistrates.
So much work is done to get perps before a magistrate and then...so many times...a lawyer can utilise a glitch in due process or a magistrate will also slap an offender on the wrist... - what’s that tshirt? “ Kill all the lawyers and start again” ?
There’s a huge contradiction between punishments for various crimes...look at some of those castle law break ins that trekkin posted...10 years for self defending your life in your home from a drunken attacker and yet here?...hmmmm

[trekin]

What makes me angry after the fact - is the lawyers and In many cases, the magistrates.
So much work is done to get perps before a magistrate and then...so many times...a lawyer can utilise a glitch in due process or a magistrate will also slap an offender on the wrist... - what’s that tshirt? “ Kill all the lawyers and start again” ?
There’s a huge contradiction between punishments for various crimes...look at some of those castle law break ins that trekkin posted...10 years for self defending your life in your home from a drunken attacker and yet here?...hmmmm

A better comparison for a huge contradiction between punishments, would be MB serving 35 consecutive life sentences.

[TassieTiger]

There are hundreds of comparisons mate - a local farmer jailed for punching a thief he caught vs a juvenile who stole a car, lead police on a car chase.

I mean a couple years ago a teen joy rider killed a pregnant mum and served 3 years:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc ... e/11443986

[Grandadbushy]

It's amazing how some legal eagles sleep at night, even defending this mongrel is lowering your standards in my eyes, surely him standing there for 3 minutes filming a dying person shows what sort of person he is and should play a large part in his conviction. I think the BS from lawyers about , ''the drugs made them do it , they weren't in a sound state of mind, they were brought up in a harsh environment all these types of things well if that's the case lock them for their own good for as long as it takes, Christ people get 10 yrs for armed robbery without taking a life or filming someone dying and posting it on FB. just look at this bloke the coach complaining he was filmed by 2 police officers when he was wearing a dress at the police station ''boo feken hoo'' big bad foot ball player thought he was invisible walking around in a dress while he was stalking a woman FMD what do these morons expect , that they can take drugs and harm people and not be held accountable, the lawyers should just walk away from them and leave them to the courts maybe then they'll think more about doing the right thing especially at 41yr old or is the pull of money too great for the lawyers

[Member-Deleted]

Our legal system, as imperfect as it is at times, beats mob rule every time. It is what sets us apart from other nations and societies.

The defence lawyer's job is to mount a defence to the charges.
The prosector's job is to prove the charges, supported by evidence.
The judge/magistrate's job is to decide whether the prosecution did prove the allegations, beyond a reasonable doubt.

In every single criminal case [not just this one], you have the power and resources of the State versus one individual. That's why we have a presumption of innocence - "innocent until proven guilty" - and why everyone is entitled to a defence.

Were you there? Did you see it happen? Then how do you know the accused is guilty? Because the police say so? Yeah, ok.

I'm not sticking up for this bloke [he might be the biggest grub in the world], I'm suggesting that in all criminal cases we should at least have a fair trial before we go straight to the lynching.