Illegal Firearms

[Madang185]

From time to time in the media of all sorts we have various members of the State Police Forces issuing statistics of the numbers of firearms accessed by criminals becase the owners of the said firearms failed to adequately secure them from misuse.

But there is one statistic that is NEVER mentioned. I think it is fair that the public at large know the numbers of illegal firearms that are discovered by the various Police Forces, ie, firearms that were never legally imported. Numbers please!

[AussieCapitalist]

There is no way to know how many firearms were not registered in 1996 but surely it is over 100 thousand. Not to mention that only about 1% of shipping containers get checked by customs. If criminals want to get illegal firearms it is not that hard seeing as they do it all the time.

And firearm safes do not prevent theft. It may slow it down but if a criminal is keen enough they will find a way.

[Oldbloke]

There is no way to know how many firearms were not registered in 1996 but surely it is over 100 thousand. Not to mention that only about 1% of shipping containers get checked by customs. If criminals want to get illegal firearms it is not that hard seeing as they do it all the time.

And firearm safes do not prevent theft. It may slow it down but if a criminal is keen enough they will find a way.

Originality when Howard pushed for secure storage to be introduced it was never to prevent theft. Was to keep away from minors/kids. Thats why in Vic the Act still just says storage needs to be hard to open, wood or steel. (Lockers and wardrobes were fine.) The changes have been snuck in by the police. (Probably without any real legal authority) Act has never been amended.

[womble]

They did’nt even know how many were registered in 1996, their record keeping was so terrible.
And they’re still catching up.
And this official line that criminals mostly get hold of guns from stealing of of licenced shooters i believe is a load of crap. Putting the onus back on us as usual so as they can bring in more regulations.
But then they probably don’t want it so widely know just how easy it is to source illegal guns nowadays.
There’s so many options available to anyone with internet that’s theres no way they have the resources to police it all. Obviously i can’t give examples or go into details.
It pisses me off how easilly criminals get firearms in Australia
. But to do the right thing for genuine reasons with complete transparency and trust afforded to a police state, licensed shooters get treated like children.
Firearms are not that complex.. In todays world anyone can download and print one at home with very little knowledge or investment.
Responsible and safe ownership should be well regulated, but encouraged and not discouraged as it is now.

We really need a royal inquest into how firearms laws have been managed since 1996 and the failings since. I do believe the intentions of the national firearms agreement were well meaning and reasonable, but most certainly they have’nt been implemented as intended since.
It’s a disgrace.
Because we’ve lost all control of regulating gun ownership here. And people having access to firearms without any due responsibility, or training, or knowledge of gun safety is just utter stupidity.
The world has changed since 1996
The laws need to change with the times because 1996 was a very different world. I don’t think the burgeoning black market in guns was forseeable at the time. At least not to the degree it flourishes now.
They sure as s**t need to wake the f*** up and deal with it though.

[Blr243]

My licence renewal arrived accompanied by a list of what I have registered and it says on the form if the list is incorrect to amend it and sign it ( helps to update their records) ..so I added the rifle they forgot about and signed it ....so if they can’t get it right and they have to rely on my honesty for the accuracy of their records , and if they are in charge of knowing how many registered firearms Australia has, then god help anyone having a guess about the numbers of illegal guns lying around

[Madang185]

This updating of records has existed from memory since the 1990's. It' s a bloody joke, the Police are ubable to keep their own records. Of course the criminals in society will comply.................................!

We, the licensed shooters are continually being harassed by the Police and the media. Interesting enough the those in the front line, ie, the Firearms Officers tell me that we are not the problem. Perhaps the problem lies at the top of the force, dare I suggest they are playing politics, or have they been told what to say?

[womble]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/gun-violence-grips-melbourne-20200212-p5402v.html

That was march of 2019. To quote the last paragraph
“It’s the reality that our members face every day. There are a lot of guns in the community in the worst possible hands.”

[poid]

So the article says 750 people caught illegally having firearms, but 70 were stolen during the year. So clearly it is not guns stolen from licensed shooters that are the source. I also wonder how many of those stolen guns are things like the security guard scams that used to go on.

Pretty much all the gun crime around my area, and anywhere that I've lived in my life, has been gang/bikie related. They are getting their guns the same way they are getting their drugs, and always have been.

However, that says that the authorities are doing a poor job; better to sling mud at dealers and licensed shooters to shift the blame and allege that stronger gun laws are needed.

[northdude]

if they can get drugs into the country a firearm wont be to hard

[straightshooter]

If the 'street price' is high enough and there is easy profit to be made there will always be a 'venture capitalist' that will take the risk.

[Ziege]

Illegal guns are piece of piss to acquire, I had a step cousin (dead now) who was no Chopper Read or Neville Bartos or Tony Mockbel but he regularly got his hands on semi auto pistols, rimfire rifles like browning and Ruger automatics, had an SKS and also a Benelli auto shotgun all the while he was a bagged and tagged crim with a record and definitely no firearm license. He was regularly Palming off pistols and ammo and other paraphernalia, and trust me if he (a total good and illiterate poser) could get his hands on guns then Anyone can

[Ziege]

I might add that illegal firearms don't cost what the likes of the NSW police minister and commissioner claim of $15k, maybe that's the street value on a 100% functioning modern ar15 or ak but it sure as f*** isn't the price on a sawn off shotgun or auto pistol or sawn off rifle... How do I know? Same dropkick deceased cousin and all his dumbshit poser Bikie mates were strapped yet had beginners Harley's and all had rentals on the low end of the scale and s**t box Cars. There's no way they all raised $15+K per firearm, especially when a house was maximum of about $80k at the time

[marksman]

l think the trend has been to manufacture illegal firearms for a while
but really have a look at youtube for an example of how to make a single shot shotgun out of tubing
when l originally saw it l could not believe it was able to be shown, just unbelievable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRI3Rho67nY
who needs to spend a heap of money, l think he said $20 and yes they would have to get some d!ckhead to get them some ammo

[Ziege]

l think the trend has been to manufacture illegal firearms for a while
but really have a look at youtube for an example of how to make a single shot shotgun out of tubing
when l originally saw it l could not believe it was able to be shown, just unbelievable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRI3Rho67nY
who needs to spend a heap of money, l think he said $20 and yes they would have to get some d!ckhead to get them some ammo

You will find that a non felons in the United states in perfectly allowed to make most firearms themself, at least in most states. So given YouTube is a USA registered LLC and that's the law there I see absolutely no reason not to show how to manufacture any kind of firearm on there... A day may come where that information becomes deathly important. Especially for the Americans who have a constitutional right to protect and rightly so. Also having ammunition as a non felon in the United states is perfectly legal also. So yeah, all context, personally I would love to see the same laws here. To hell with anti gun people and fudds

[AussieCapitalist]

The bloke in Darwin 2 years ago had a pump shotgun and a bloody police ankle monitor on whilst he killed those 4 people. Not to mention he called the police superintendent directly during the shootout which we will never know why and what they spoke about.

Not to mention Australia's favourite son(joke) mr port arthur man got his firearms illegally without a licence too.

[womble]

They’re too dumb and lazy to make slam guns.
They want glocks like the gang bangers in the rap videos. Has to match with your nikes and Gucci right bro.
Flooded arms markets. Global auctions. Stolen credit cards, stolen ID. Where’s the risk.
Just click and collect.

And so what if it does get noticed coming through Australia Post. Have you seen the people who work there for about 2 dollars an hour. Why watch a conveyor belt all day when you can play with your phone.
Eh, cuz will buy dis. Cashy on the side bro. I mean it’s still going on the street. Where else would it go.

[Farmerpete]

The statistic I'd be really interested in seeing is how many police commit an offence that would make them not a fit and proper person vs. How many lafo's commit an offence of the same nature.

I'm not saying all police are crooks and I support them in doing a rather thankless job.

I just think it would be interesting to know what percentage of police are crooks vs what percentage of lafo's are crooks. Seeing as both groups are meant to be outstanding citizens.

[TassieTiger]

The statistic I'd be really interested in seeing is how many police commit an offence that would make them not a fit and proper person vs. How many lafo's commit an offence of the same nature.

I'm not saying all police are crooks and I support them in doing a rather thankless job.

I just think it would be interesting to know what percentage of police are crooks vs what percentage of lafo's are crooks. Seeing as both groups are meant to be outstanding citizens.

Me too FP, like the cop who accidentally discharged his side arm at the ekka? Does he still work with firearms? What would have happened if a LFO was in same scene - at a show?

[AussieCapitalist]

I just can never trust the police, the amount of times I have seen them overreach is unbelievable. No one is above the law and the ends never justify the means. I always make every encounter I have with them as patriotic as possible. They actually back down more often than not when you stand up to them and remind them that they work for us the citizen and we do not work for them. A lot of people put them on this pedestal that they are above the law when they are not, nobody is.

I have been pushed twice(assault) by cops for no reason and illegally arrested and held for 5 hours whilst I was in Darwin and one of them got the s**ts because he kept offering me a blanket and I said kept saying no. This is the arrogance and narcissism, I don't want your blanket you tyrant. Its all about the power trip and the mind games, they want to feel power over you. They hate being told no. I wonder if I went up to a cop and pushed him what would happen to me? But he thinks he can push me. F him.

Any cop that sees another cop do anything illegal and does not report it is a scumbag traitor to the public. The standard you walk pass is the standard you accept.

[Farmerpete]

Tassie I think you just highlighted the point I was getting at.
If it was a law abiding citizen who had a negligent discharge at the ekka swat would have thrown 10 flash bangs and then tazered till he shat himself
A cop does it and they just say carry on it's fine.

Same with the idiot that shot himself in the leg putting a stolen handgun back in his roof. His whole punishment for multiple stolen guns was loss of job.
If it were me or you we'd be in jail for the next 20 years

I know a few frontline police officers and they're good guys. Every time something happens they lose the trust of the public that they worked so hard to gain just because they wear the same uniform.

I'm of the belief law enforcement should be held to a higher standard than regular citizens because they're in a position of trust and power.

[Patriot]

I just can never trust the police, the amount of times I have seen them overreach is unbelievable. No one is above the law and the ends never justify the means. I always make every encounter I have with them as patriotic as possible. They actually back down more often than not when you stand up to them and remind them that they work for us the citizen and we do not work for them. A lot of people put them on this pedestal that they are above the law when they are not, nobody is.

I have been pushed twice(assault) by cops for no reason and illegally arrested and held for 5 hours whilst I was in Darwin and one of them got the s**ts because he kept offering me a blanket and I said kept saying no. This is the arrogance and narcissism, I don't want your blanket you tyrant. Its all about the power trip and the mind games, they want to feel power over you. They hate being told no. I wonder if I went up to a cop and pushed him what would happen to me? But he thinks he can push me. F him.

Any cop that sees another cop do anything illegal and does not report it is a scumbag traitor to the public. The standard you walk pass is the standard you accept.

Gee mate some of your best work here.
How does one have a patriotic encounter with the police?
Maybe it was just cold in the lockup, I’ve been in lockup’s in northern Australia,it does get cold.

[AussieCapitalist]

Gee mate some of your best work here.
How does one have a patriotic encounter with the police?
Maybe it was just cold in the lockup, I’ve been in lockup’s in northern Australia,it does get cold.

Patriotic as just do not bend over to their unlawful demands. When they ask you "what are you doing" or "what's in your car" or other questions that are not their concern do not allow them to intimidate you and remind them that your personal movements are none of their business and this is not China.

Mate the purpose of the blanket is to make you reliant. They want to give you a blanket so you feel reliant on them. The night I got arrested in Darwin was the same night that old mate killed those people with his illegal firearm. My mate was jogging down the street near the area and I was picking him up so we could go for a brew. And from what I saw of the police actions, some of the police were breaking the law in their actions that night.

And yes, Obviously the bad always ruin it for the good as it puts a bad taste in ones mouth.

[Patriot]

Ok

In my experience when dealing with police, exercising your right to silence works the best. Nothing else annoys them more.

[AussieCapitalist]

I just wish more police would speak out and stand up when they see other police breaking the law. They have a moral and legal obligation to the tax payer yet many do the wrong thing and look the other way when it comes to corruption. I will have more respect for police when I see them reporting their friends and fellow public servants.

Respect a man by his enemies not his friends.

[TassieTiger]

Good and bad in the force - like everywhere, it’s the power trippers they spoil it for the good guys and I could give you examples of s**t heads but I’m not going too, I’ll give you these couple instead...

Not that long ago I was involved in a minor accident and was waiting for a tow truck, I was in the front of police car waiting and I told the officer I was fine and he didn’t have to stay - especially given some of the radio calls...the officer looked at me and said, please mate - id just rather sit here and talk to someone normal for a little while...those comments really made me think s**t, this guy is really dealing with some crap out there...Huge kudos for that officer.

Another time 10 of us took bikes over to west coast of Tas. We camped 3 klms away from the pub - somewhat unknowingly.

After a few beers in camp someone rang the local cop to see if there was a taxi in town. There was but he was not working,
5 mins later - cop turned up and made 3 trips taking us to pub. At 1am pub closed - and rather than seeing us morons walk the 3ks, the officer came baCk and made another 3 trips. He would not take $ but we threw in and left a wad on back seat - that officer did a LOT for police/public interface that night. It’s a story all 10 ppl tell...again and again. Mind you - it was prob better for him to know where we were but they’d not the point here.

[Patriot]

I just wish more police would speak out and stand up when they see other police breaking the law. They have a moral and legal obligation to the tax payer yet many do the wrong thing and look the other way when it comes to corruption. I will have more respect for police when I see them reporting their friends and fellow public servants.

Respect a man by his enemies not his friends.

The loyalty they feel to their fellow officers will always come first. They need to able to trust one another and rats can’t be tolerated.

Don’t know about you but I would never dob in a mate, what patriotic Australian would?

[AussieCapitalist]

Yes you are right Tassie. The bad always put a bad taste in peoples mouths. Its like the pedophile priests. Its all you hear about but the fact is it is less than 1%(which is not much different to other professions) of the total amount of priests but the bad always seem to get the attention.

When I was driving from Blackwater to Rockhampton I was doing about 150km/h and all of a sudden I got overtaken by a cop that was doing at least 200km/h. I thought to myself oh dam I am gonna get a ticket here(and yes I admit I was doing the wrong thing So I should have) and he just looked at me and smiled as he drove past.

[AussieCapitalist]

The loyalty they feel to their fellow officers will always come first. They need to able to trust one another and rats can’t be tolerated.

Don’t know about you but I would never dob in a mate, what patriotic Australian would?

Rats? Mate as a cop your duty is to the law and the tax payer. A cop has a moral and legal obligation to uphold the law on behalf of his boss, the tax payer. I would not dog on a mate either(unless he was a pedo or a secret communist), but I am not a cop.

[Farmerpete]

I knew a guy who claimed to be a free man of the land he gave a letter to the attorney General to state he would only follow common law. Always claimed he didn't need licence to drive and could charge police for his time.
Funny thing was he actually possessed a driver's license and submitted to rbts etc and NEVER tried to collect on his ridiculous fee schedule (5000$ for five minutes) because it was easier to comply. But he was also always the first to encourage non compliance of someone else.

There's lots of pseudo lawyers who think that if a cop pushes them they're breaking the law generally they wouldn't know that a blackslaw dictionary exists or what its for but hold a doctorate from YouTube's university an know their rights.
while they may be technically assaulting the person in the YouTube drs eyes the citizen may be obstructing the officer in the laws eyes.

police officers are given the power to do their job if that means pushing you out of the way or restraint to enforce compliance with an order he hasn't assaulted you he's done his job.

You as a citizen of Australia do not have the right to question a direct order of ANY emergency service personnel

If we were in America it would be a different story.

[Ziege]

I would've received a dangerous driving charge this morning had I capitulated to a police tyrants bulls**t, however me being adamant that I was obeying the speed restrictions and thusly breaking no laws meant he had to let me go, never ever admit to anything even as a fleeting remark, never give joinder

He claimed I was travelling at 130kmh in my tired 3.0L troll grenade, up a 26*+ incline for over a km, my old girl can't even pull that speed off downhill