Victoria Police

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Victoria Police

Post by Madang185 » 13 May 2020, 10:12 am

It is interesting to note that the Victoria Police have dropped their illegal ban on the sale of firearms and ammunition obviously due to the Court action by the NSC.

However, apparently, the Assistant Chief Commissioner has suggsted that Police will "monitor" the sale of ammunition. Why? What is the problem?

Police at the coal face know and have told the writer and others, that Licensed firearm owners are not the problem.

However it is obvious that Police command are merely telling the Government what they want to hear.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by AussieCapitalist » 13 May 2020, 10:22 am

The police need to remember they do not make the laws. They enforce current laws they are not Legislatures.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by marksman » 13 May 2020, 11:08 am

AussieCapitalist wrote:The police need to remember they do not make the laws. They enforce current laws they are not Legislatures.


+1 :thumbsup:
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Oldbloke » 13 May 2020, 11:55 am

AussieCapitalist wrote:The police need to remember they do not make the laws. They enforce current laws they are not Legislatures.


Spot on
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by mchughcb » 13 May 2020, 11:56 am

Because Lisa Neville is as dumb as a hat full of hammers.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Patriot » 13 May 2020, 12:08 pm

You are kidding yourself if you think police don’t write firearms legislation. The public service writes legislation not politicians, unelected public officials run things. That’s the way it is.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 May 2020, 12:20 pm

Well if anyone saw the old bbc shows yes minister or yes prime minister. Unfortunately while most of what you might have seen is correct... the competency of public service operatives is gone down the gurgler.

So yes i agree with patriot, while mostly the ministers give direction and sometimes take direction from public service the laws are written by public service.

But politicians being politicians will take the credit for any achievements
Last edited by Sergeant Hartman on 13 May 2020, 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Bugman » 13 May 2020, 12:57 pm

Another thing to remember is that the interpretation of any law by any police officer is subject to that officers own interpretation of said law. ...and here lies a big problem. :?
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by AussieCapitalist » 13 May 2020, 1:21 pm

I stand by my earlier comment. A civil servant can not make a law. It must be passed by elected officials. No doubt civil servants are in the ear of politicians but the fact remains an elected representative enacts the law and police enforce said laws. The parliament could legalise machine guns tomorrow and the police would have to smile and nod. .
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 13 May 2020, 1:33 pm

Mate it about the wording. While yes the laws are written by burocrats... thwy are passed by the politicians.

Hmm not sure if this is the right place... but the police have power to enter any premise they desire without warrant, investigate and detain any person in that premise and confescate and sell any item on that property..... That's the power Dan the man has given to police under the cronavirus guide as these laws were made under public health guise... without any input from the opposition. Best of all without any court oversight or warrants


Yep that's right... very likely your states will have similar laws
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Patriot » 13 May 2020, 2:49 pm

AussieCapitalist wrote:I stand by my earlier comment. A civil servant can not make a law. It must be passed by elected officials. No doubt civil servants are in the ear of politicians but the fact remains an elected representative enacts the law and police enforce said laws. The parliament could legalise machine guns tomorrow and the police would have to smile and nod. .


And the Governor General could command the armed forces to invade New Zealand!!
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Aliqua » 13 May 2020, 3:35 pm

This can be said for any state in Australia, but this is referenced from the Victorian Law Institute:
"The Victorian parliament makes law in certain areas for the people of Victoria. The federal parliament has powers in other areas to make laws for all Australians."

The Courts (Judges) also make law through "Case Law" which isn't set at Magistrate's Court Level, but from County, Supreme and High Court (eg: In the case of Entity A vs Entity B" either through the severity of the offence of if the Accused appeals. Case law remains legislation until the drafting of updated legislation where it then becomes actual legislation.

Legislators are people who WRITE legislation on behalf of parliament which then goes through various stages within parliament (lower house, upper house, senate, etc).

At no stage is there ever 'The Police' sitting at a desk writing legislation/law... only ever enforcing either existing law or rules, policies, etc... and yes, there is a level of interpretation but that interpretation is then determined within a court of law...

Not trying to start an argument, just providing some clarity.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Oldbloke » 13 May 2020, 3:53 pm

Aliqua wrote:This can be said for any state in Australia, but this is referenced from the Victorian Law Institute:
"The Victorian parliament makes law in certain areas for the people of Victoria. The federal parliament has powers in other areas to make laws for all Australians."

The Courts (Judges) also make law through "Case Law" which isn't set at Magistrate's Court Level, but from County, Supreme and High Court (eg: In the case of Entity A vs Entity B" either through the severity of the offence of if the Accused appeals. Case law remains legislation until the drafting of updated legislation where it then becomes actual legislation.

Legislators are people who WRITE legislation on behalf of parliament which then goes through various stages within parliament (lower house, upper house, senate, etc).

At no stage is there ever 'The Police' sitting at a desk writing legislation/law... only ever enforcing either existing law or rules, policies, etc... and yes, there is a level of interpretation but that interpretation is then determined within a court of law...

Not trying to start an argument, just providing some clarity.



Sounds right. But police will have a lot of input in some "bills."

I think what may have been intended by the OP is that the police seem to get as awa y with applying law the way they see fit. For example. Safes for storage dont get a mention in the Vic regulations or Act. Just "hard to enter wooden or steel" blah blah. But they are forcing us to by safes.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Patriot » 13 May 2020, 4:07 pm

Agreed.
The police don’t physically write it, but, police ministers will almost always except the departmental advice of the police commissioner and the director general. Police will always push for tougher gun restrictions this pandemic has been a good example, as soon as the Victorian police commissioner said so,the government acted in shutting down access to guns and ammo, it didn’t even have to go through parliament.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by Aliqua » 13 May 2020, 4:44 pm

Couldnt agree more with the input statements... that now brings into account "lobbiests" (professional PR spin doctors) who push for legislative changes to favour various industries or groups. They exist in EVERY category from pharmacy to transport, sporting... everything.
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Re: Victoria Police

Post by mchughcb » 13 May 2020, 5:46 pm

Patriot wrote:Agreed.
The police don’t physically write it, but, police ministers will almost always except the departmental advice of the police commissioner and the director general. Police will always push for tougher gun restrictions this pandemic has been a good example, as soon as the Victorian police commissioner said so,the government acted in shutting down access to guns and ammo, it didn’t even have to go through parliament.


Why would police push for tighter restrictions to guns? Doesn't make any sense to me. If I was a policeman I'd want access to a RPG so when somebody is going 3km/hr over the speed limit I can provide the appropriate response. :lol:
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