Stop stealing my guns!!!!

[AussieCapitalist]

You lads see this? In 2018, 2425 of the over 3.5 million firearms were stolen in Australia with the majority taken from locked safes.

Graham Park from shooters union makes a good point.

"Mr Park claimed theft from firearm owners was one of the few situations where victim-blaming was the default state of affairs.
If your car gets stolen and later used in a bank robbery getaway, you’re not facing a police investigation of your own because it wasn’t locked in your garage,"


https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 54swm.html

[duddley75]

Is the safes being used not up to the task. I am sure if you have enough time and are committed, no safe will stop you for long.

But I do wonder if certain safes are causing more issues.

When looking at rifle safes recently, I was considering a safe from bunnings. That was until I looked at its construction an how easier it would be to defeat. I ended up picking up a Lokaway due to perceived benefits. Sure an angle grinder will still get through it I am sure, but it will resist pry bars better than the bunnings version.

[CAVEMAN]

Is the safes being used not up to the task. I am sure if you have enough time and are committed, no safe will stop you for long.

But I do wonder if certain safes are causing more issues.

When looking at rifle safes recently, I was considering a safe from bunnings. That was until I looked at its construction an how easier it would be to defeat. I ended up picking up a Lokaway due to perceived benefits. Sure an angle grinder will still get through it I am sure, but it will resist pry bars better than the bunnings version.

Buy once cry once. Its an investment in both a deterrent and the better safes are typically roomier too.

Also not being an easy target is a big thing. I'm lucky enough to have an attached garage, so when i load up no one in the neighborhood or passing prying eyes is any the wiser. Plus no Winchester or SSAA stickers on my car. And then my safe is located in a discreet spot and secured. And also any keys are secured not just left around. I'm probably overzealous with it, but a good deterrent and being discreet will hopefully be good protection.

[AussieCapitalist]

I am not sure on circumstances but a lot of regional area homes and sheds would be strapped so maybe criminal groups target these areas when people are known to not be there.
In QLD cat A,B,C firearm safes can be made of wood or steal and if over 150kg do not have to be bolted. A few blokes can easily lift up these safes or use a trolley. I am going to assume a lot of safes are not bolted down and people just carry them out onto a ute or truck and then break into them at their safehouse. Even if they are bolted a determined criminal with the right tools can break in.


I wonder if the registry details somehow get into the hands of criminal groups?

[Madang185]

Oddly enough such statistics are freely available, BUT, where are the statistics about the numbers of illegal firearms that the Police recover that have entered the country illegally?

They seem to be strangely absent

[AussieCapitalist]

2425 out of 3.5 million is bugger all if you think about it. I am going to assume more than 2425 illegal guns enter the country every year. Not to mention the army. Every now and then their armories have things go walk about. Few grenades and a minmi was the last one I heard about in Townsville. Same with talisman sabre exercise with the Americans. Stuff goes missing more than people would like to think.

[Patriot]

2425 out of 3.5 million is bugger all if you think about it. I am going to assume more than 2425 illegal guns enter the country every year. Not to mention the army. Every now and then their armories have things go walk about. Few grenades and a minmi was the last one I heard about in Townsville. Same with talisman sabre exercise with the Americans. Stuff goes missing more than people would like to think.

I worked for facilities management company on Lavarack barracks in the late 90s, so pre September 11. We could access anywhere including armouries with no questions asked. Apparently lots of stuff went walkabout.

[Noisydad]

It’s not hard to build your own safe that’s better than a Bunnings example (or better than most shop bought safes actually). Last year I posted some pics here of one I built. A Bunnings safe weighs an inadequate 44kg. The door on my home made safe is 45kg. The main thing you need to built one of your own is the willingness to have a go.

[RuinedNoodle]

I wonder how many of them get their bolts/action stolen along with their firearms? Or do they only count a firearm as stolen only if the bolts/action are stolen along with the gun?

[trekin]

Is the safes being used not up to the task. I am sure if you have enough time and are committed, no safe will stop you for long.

But I do wonder if certain safes are causing more issues.

When looking at rifle safes recently, I was considering a safe from bunnings. That was until I looked at its construction an how easier it would be to defeat. I ended up picking up a Lokaway due to perceived benefits. Sure an angle grinder will still get through it I am sure, but it will resist pry bars better than the bunnings version.

Well, if perceived benefits make you feel safer, then good on you. Would be better off buying the Bunnings one and then spending the difference on some whole house security making your property a whole lot less attractive to any would be thief and protecting all your possessions. Making your whole house part of your gun safe would be better than having just your safe left, but no TV, no car, no jewelry etc after some scum decides that your house is easier picking than the one next door.

[Patriot]

The idea of safe storage is about preventing accidents rather than keeping a committed crim out. I wish I had saved the money and bought a Bunnings safe.

[Ziege]

Blaming safes or gun owners or whatever is irrelevant, I don't care how good your safe is, if someone wants in you don't get a say in it

[RoginaJack]

By what I read, a lot of safes were ripped from walls, floors etc and carried out to vehicles with firearms still inside.

[poid]

Blaming safes or gun owners or whatever is irrelevant, I don't care how good your safe is, if someone wants in you don't get a say in it

yep, this. Especially if someone has targeted you and knows what they are going for. If it is just opportunists then making your place less attractive to a thief than others (cameras and other security, dog etc) goes a long way.

I got my 150+kg safe from the ute into its permanent position with just a Bunnings trolley. A couple of blokes and a trolley would easily grab one...and some wouldn't need the trolley.

[Bugman]

A mate of mine had his rifle safe broken into, some time back. The mongrels used a cordless angle grinder on the door part then shifted the locking mechanism.
Didn't believe it at first when he told me, but when I went around there, sure enough, that is what happened. From that day on all my magazines and bolts are kept elsewhere. That is the best I can do.

[Blr243]

Ol minidisc strikes again I can’t imagine people breaking into safes actually buy a cordless grinder to enter safes... it would go against their principles so they steal the grinder instead of buying it There are also cordless metal shears that are much quicker and more silent With covid time off I should add some extra plate to my safe to make it near impossible to burgle ......if we come home to find someone in our house I think it is so wrong that we can’t break a dozen of their bones with a hammer ..senseless stupid laws protecting the worst members of our neibourhood

[rc42]

I had a long wait for my A/B license and got the safe early on, it was a cheap and nasty 10 gun ebay job for about $300 with a cheap chinese electronic lock that youtube has lots of videos about bypassing in seconds.

Anyway, I made use of the time by welding and bolting 6mm steel plate everywhere that it looked vulnerable to a grinder attack and added a very strong lock/hasp system, there are also now 11 bolts through the base and back into concrete and brick. It's never coming out in one piece and would take some time to grind and bash into it. Bolts are kept in a separate small pistol safe which is also well bolted down.

More usefully there's a wireless camera sitting right above it with the recording system sitting elsewhere in the house.

If they are stolen there will be no doubt that I took reasonable precautions so that's one firearms offence that the police will miss out on.

[pomemax]

In 2018 there were 847 reported incidents of firearm theft in which 2,425 firearms were stolen.
did the report say where they were stolen from probably not just said the trend was from rural properties"The largest proportion of thefts occurred in regional parts of Australia" nor did they say how many were stolen from Police lock ups I think that was the year the cop in Newcastle NSW was caught selling them from the armory. of course you could read that as .00148453608% of the estimated guns in Australia were stolen (3,600,000/2425)

[womble]

Would not be surprised if it’s an organised group who have become quite proficient at what they do.
And likely have access to a data base that gives them addresses to target.
If it’s a regular activity for them that they wish to keep doing. Everything they do is based on risk mitigation, no exceptions. They will avoid camera systems, unless the value of the catch is worth it.
And they will do their best to avoid people conflict.
They’d have a few sets of rego plates, expired not stolen, so not really a lot. And would most likely be using the same reliable vehicles.
They”ll work to a minimum time frame and if that expires they”ll abort. But rural area affords longer timeframes.
The time frame is calculated on the shortest outing the resident is likely to make.
Most likely they will appear and the vehicle will appear like it’s supposed to be there. Not out of place in the environment. Service vehicle explains the tools. They will enter in broad daylight. Not long after the last remaining residents have left.
There’s a lot of metal fab people on this forum, so we know, even 10 mil plate not going to slow them down that much really.
As mentioned, no amount of deterrents will stop a determined thief. But the slower their progress the higher their risk.
They are selective and look for the easier jobs. That’s why they’re in the more rural areas.
So the trick is to make your place less attractive than the blokes down the road.

In another thread, i myself and others have mentioned i have real time view on my phone of all cameras, with alerts on my phone if specific cameras pick up motion. I don’t know how or if this works with satellite phones.
But it is much more commonplace now and it cost me around 300 bucks installing myself. Kit came with everything you need, no ongoing service fees for the app. I went with a known brand for customer service backup.
Obviously theres ways to circumvent the cameras, but the information is recorded and saved in the cloud before they can do so.
I know when they arrive and theres no getting around that.
They don’t want to leave any signature whatsoever. So that would class as a highest risk job.
Highly recommend.

Oh come on you research the habits of pigs and deer just as thoroughly. What better trophy than a thief.
But rule number one is do not underestimate them. I would probably avoid confrontation, but i guess that’s up to you. Do you farm pigs. Or perhaps you own a wood chipper.

[Ziege]

Only just got out the game aye Womble?

[womble]

No man I'm squeeky clean

[TassieTiger]

Think like a thief to catch a thief...
I’ve had ppl broken in to all around me - but touch wood, I’ve been lucky.
I adopt some of what wombles said above - I come home / go at weird hours aligned with my work, I don’t use the same vehicle all the time. I have cameras and signs alerting to the fact.
Electric gate and cams on that gate...
The house not only has cams but alarms as does my sheds. (In this day and age of $400 x nvr and 8 cams reporting to your phone) what your excuse for not having ?
And then to top it off 2 of these probably do more to deter than all of other stuff combined...
One will rip you to pieces and then the other will lick your wounds...when the other one will rip you again lol

[poid]

womble's been out for a while, the rego recognition cameras will pick up those expired plates now when driving around

Wish I had a big enough yard for an Akita, it's the one bit of security I'm missing!

[Blr243]

I keep my dog inside because I don’t want a burglar to stab him with a screwdriver, that would really kill me There should be a rule where burglars are only allowed to fight guard dogs with their fists

[womble]

Akita, Japanese breed skilled in Kung Fu. Temperament kamakazi.
Nope right out of there.

I’d like to think my dogs would at least bark. But no, they’d show you where the keys are and help you load the car. Happy.

[Ziege]

My favourite dog breed for a protector is pit bulls, but when in the city that was fine, out here in the sticks they're just a sheep/cattle eating nightmare waiting to happen. My last one had to take a long nap thanks to some dumb wench with her yap dog half poodle abortion of a thing that SHE failed to have on the leash, it took to my dog and he killed it one bite. All would have been fine had it not been for the white knights surf lifesaving assholes taking sides with the screeching harpies despite never even witnessing what occurred, she even put her dog back on the leash to try and make out she was innocent, I put yap dogs in the same category as cats

[targetshooter900]

i have real time view on my phone of all cameras, with alerts on my phone if specific cameras pick up motion.

I also have this setup. Secure your guns, secure your sport gents. One of the best defenses is not advertising that you have guns either. Too many people drive around with massive winchester stickers on their fourby's, or stickers of their LGS. Basically just asking for it.
Install your safe in your house too. Sheds and garages are stolen from more, and are a much easier target i imagine.